New way to address invites?

JellyBean52513 · August 2015

Just read this blog entry on the Merriam-Webster website about replacing "Mr." and "Ms." with the gender-neutral "Mx." Clicky.

Thoughts? Would this be a welcome thing, or is this a case of trying too hard to be neutral? As much of a proponent as I am of using gender neutral language, I feel like this may actually rob people of the right to be identified as their gender.

[Deleted User] · August 2015

JellyBean52513 said:

Just read this blog entry on the Merriam-Webster website about replacing "Mr." and "Ms." with the gender-neutral "Mx." Clicky. Thoughts? Would this be a welcome thing, or is this a case of trying too hard to be neutral? As much of a proponent as I am of using gender neutral language, I feel like this may actually rob people of the right to be identified as their gender.

I think this is trying too hard. Unless you have a friend or acquaintance who says that they approve of this new Mx thing and request it be used for them, I think you need to go with the individual's choice. Which for most people is going to be the standard Mr and Ms.

AddieCake · August 2015

This is stupid to me. Just eliminate titles if you (general) don't like gender specific ones. You can be Jane Doe or John Doe. You don't need a title.

[Deleted User] · August 2015

AddieCake said:

This is stupid to me. Just eliminate titles if you (general) don't like gender specific ones. You can be Jane Doe or John Doe. You don't need a title.

Agreed. But this might be a good option for the genderqueer. The other day I saw a person on the subway wearing a flowy blouse, dangly earrings, long red painted nails, long hair up in a bun, with a full facial beard. This person might be one who would prefer to be referred to as Mx rather than my choosing to either refer to them by either Ms or Mr.

novella1186 · August 2015

I don't think I'd automatically switch to this across the board, because it's all about using titles/pronouns that people prefer, right? If I had a friend who was gender neutral or who preferred Mx for their title, obviously I'd be more than happy to address them that way. But if I know people prefer Mr or Ms or Miss or Mrs then I'm going to use that.

A friend of the family gets peeved if you refer to her and her husband as Mr and Mrs. She always snaps, "It's Dr and Mrs" (so I made sure to put Dr and Mrs on their wedding invite)

ETA my point is that it's about respecting people and their preferences more than anything, I think

ETF: word fail

SP29 · August 2015

In general, I think it's too much, as in I wouldn't automatically switch to addressing everyone that way, but if I knew someone who preferred it, sure.

artbyallie · August 2015

I suppose this could be an option for someone who is genderqueer or otherwise uses nonbinary pronouns. But it would have to be at their personal request. I have one friend/acquaintance that recently came out as genderqueer and chose 'they/them' as their pronoun, but I understand some prefer ce/xe/ze or something else. If I had to send a formal invitation to a nonbinary friend, I would ask them what they preferred to use as their title. Unless they had a doctoral degree, in which case I would default to Dr. So-and-So.

mollybarker11 · August 2015

I think it's a terrific thing to add to the long list of options. We didn't replace "Mrs" & "Miss" when "Ms" came on the scene, and I see "Mx" in the same light. It doesn't rob anyone of their right to be identified as a specific gender, just like "Ms" doesn't rob anyone of their right to be identified as having a specific marital status, but it's there for people who don't want to be identified in such a way.

Like any other title, if you're not sure what someone prefers, ask! If you addressed all the women on your guest list as "Ms" you would probably get a mixed reaction: some pleased, some offended, some ambivalent. It's not a catch-all, just another option.

NicRen17 · August 2015

I have a distant cousin who I used to work with in retail who (after many years of counselling and therapy) has made the transition from female to male. Socially, we started referring to HIM and using his new name. We even started correcting customers (appropriately). He looks like a feminine male so its "an easy mistake to fix"

So I know that my cousin would prefer to be labeled as "Mr." because that's what he is comfortable with and who he feels like he is. I am assuming here but I would think this new Mx label would be counterproductive for him. But it might be appropriate for someone else.

justsie · August 2015

NicRen17 said:

I have a distant cousin who I used to work with in retail who (after many years of counselling and therapy) has made the transition from female to male. Socially, we started referring to HIM and using his new name. We even started correcting customers (appropriately). He looks like a feminine male so its "an easy mistake to fix"

So I know that my cousin would prefer to be labeled as "Mr." because that's what he is comfortable with and who he feels like he is. I am assuming here but I would think this new Mx label would be counterproductive for him. But it might be appropriate for someone else.

I agree with this a lot. For a lot of people, pronouns (and titles) are important and I wouldn't want to assume that just because someone is not cisgendered that they all the sudden want to go by Mx. Same for cisgendered folks, they might find offense to the Mx. title as well. I think it would fabulous for someone genderqueer or questioning? I wouldn't use it without knowing that person's preferred pronouns are they/them/it.

CMGragain · August 2015

Are you also gong to change the English language to eliminate all sexist pronouns? After all, why use "he or she" when you can refer to everybody as "it"? Sounds silly, doesn't it? I will continue to address people as they prefer to be addressed.

southernbelle0915 · August 2015

CMGragain said:
Are you also gong to change the English language to eliminate all sexist pronouns? After all, why use "he or she" when you can refer to everybody as "it"? Sounds silly, doesn't it? I will continue to address people as they prefer to be addressed.

"He" and "she" are not "sexist" pronouns...

OP - I don't have a problem with it. It seems more polite to address someone in a neutral sense until you know for sure how they identify. But no way is society there yet.

I mean, think about...what's touted around here (at least by some) as the default is "Mr. and Mrs. William James Smith". No way are people ready to give up their male dominated way of addressing people. Let alone using Mx. as a default.

You've seen the pearl clutching that goes on when someone suggests using the woman's first name (e.g. Mr. and Mrs. John and Jane Smith) if it means separating a man from his last name... Baby steps.

STARMOON44 · August 2015

CMGragain said:
Are you also gong to change the English language to eliminate all sexist pronouns? After all, why use "he or she" when you can refer to everybody as "it"? Sounds silly, doesn't it? I will continue to address people as they prefer to be addressed.

That's exactly the proposal. That people who prefer not to be addressed as Mr., Mrs., Ms., or Miss now have the option of Mx. I don't see any silliness here, just courtesy, respect, and consideration.

artbyallie · August 2015

CMGragain said:

Are you also gong to change the English language to eliminate all sexist pronouns? After all, why use "he or she" when you can refer to everybody as "it"? Sounds silly, doesn't it? I will continue to address people as they prefer to be addressed.

For the record, 'it' is generally considered offensive to people who are transgender/genderqueer/nonbinary because it robs them of personhood. When in doubt, ask someone which pronouns they prefer. If you do not know and will not or cannot ask, refer to that person in a way that does not use pronouns (such as 'that person,' 'my friend,' 'Name,' etc.)

justsie · August 2015

artbyallie said:

CMGragain said:

Are you also gong to change the English language to eliminate all sexist pronouns? After all, why use "he or she" when you can refer to everybody as "it"? Sounds silly, doesn't it? I will continue to address people as they prefer to be addressed.

For the record, 'it' is generally considered offensive to people who are transgender/genderqueer/nonbinary because it robs them of personhood. When in doubt, ask someone which pronouns they prefer. If you do not know and will not or cannot ask, refer to that person in a way that does not use pronouns (such as 'that person,' 'my friend,' 'Name,' etc.)

(just an ancedote) I have a nonbianary friend that prefers to be called "it". It makes me uncomfortable to do so, but if that is their preferred pronoun then I'll use it. I will note though that I didn't go into the friendship calling the person "it", they requested it. Before this particular person I had never had someone prefer such a pronoun.

JellyBean52513 · August 2015

Sorry to have posted & run, I read this article on the train to work and pretty much forgot about it lol I agree with pretty much every response here. While it's nice to know that options are being considered for those who don't traditionally identify as one title or the other, I wouldn't start addressing all my invites with Mx. unless I knew someone preferred it. To me, doing so would be the same as automatically addressing a married woman as Mrs. when she might actually prefer Ms., or even Dr. if that applies to her.

artbyallie · August 2015

justsie said:

artbyallie said:

CMGragain said:

Are you also gong to change the English language to eliminate all sexist pronouns? After all, why use "he or she" when you can refer to everybody as "it"? Sounds silly, doesn't it? I will continue to address people as they prefer to be addressed.

For the record, 'it' is generally considered offensive to people who are transgender/genderqueer/nonbinary because it robs them of personhood. When in doubt, ask someone which pronouns they prefer. If you do not know and will not or cannot ask, refer to that person in a way that does not use pronouns (such as 'that person,' 'my friend,' 'Name,' etc.)

(just an ancedote) I have a nonbianary friend that prefers to be called "it". It makes me uncomfortable to do so, but if that is their preferred pronoun then I'll use it. I will note though that I didn't go into the friendship calling the person "it", they requested it. Before this particular person I had never had someone prefer such a pronoun.

I suppose there's a first time for everything. I would also definitely not use 'it' unless requested to do so.

JediElizabeth · August 2015

CMGragain said:

Are you also gong to change the English language to eliminate all sexist pronouns? After all, why use "he or she" when you can refer to everybody as "it"? Sounds silly, doesn't it? I will continue to address people as they prefer to be addressed.

I think the word you're looking for is "gendered." Those pronouns are not sexist, but they do denote gender, therefore gendered...

And as some people do prefer non-gendered pronouns, I think your argument sounds silly.

CMGragain · August 2015

So, addressing people the way they prefer to be addressed is silly?

JediElizabeth · August 2015

CMGragain said:

So, addressing people the way they prefer to be addressed is silly?

Not at all.

Reducing the innovation of a new, non-gendered address to a reductio ad absurdum response to sexism is silly. Which is what the sentence "After all, why use "he or she" when you can refer to everybody as "it"?" seemed to do.

No one's asking for us to use this address for everyone - only those who prefer to be addressed in a non-gendered manner (which is not silly. Actually, "it" may be more respect to some people than "him" or "her," depending on their desires). Was there some context in your post that I was missing?

CMGragain · August 2015

CMGragain said:

Are you also gong to change the English language to eliminate all sexist pronouns? After all, why use "he or she" when you can refer to everybody as "it"? Sounds silly, doesn't it? I will continue to address people as they prefer to be addressed.

Yes, you missed the last sentence. I guess I forgot to use my sarcasm font. Sorry.

PS. I have the same issue in church. There is no proper pronoun for God. God is not male. God is not female. God is unique, and there is no word in our language to express it, so we use "he, his, him" by default.

STARMOON44 · August 2015

CMGragain said:

CMGragain said:

Are you also gong to change the English language to eliminate all sexist pronouns? After all, why use "he or she" when you can refer to everybody as "it"? Sounds silly, doesn't it? I will continue to address people as they prefer to be addressed.

Yes, you missed the last sentence. I guess I forgot to use my sarcasm font. Sorry.

PS. I have the same issue in church. There is no proper pronoun for God. God is not male. God is not female. God is unique, and there is no word in our language to express it, so we use "he, his, him" by default.

Personally, I use she. And my church switches back and forth. Because tradition is a silly reason for sexist language.

New way to address invites?

Re: New way to address invites?

Choose Another Board

Search Boards