"Etiquette is Regional"

JBee85 · January 2016

I need to ask this because I am getting very confused.

I am a lurker. I have come across many baffling responses for etiquette questions on multiple wedding planning websites. The latest justification I’ve been reading is that "etiquette is based on region." “In UK tiered weddings are acceptable,” or “Chinese people give you money, so registering for a Honeyfund is ok.” Yet here I read the complete opposite and that etiquette – no matter where you’re from - is universal.

I’m just curious and need explanations:

Why would etiquette be considered universal rather than regional?

And where did the “regional etiquette” explanation came from? Is there some truth to it or is it just a convenient excuse to use?

Thanks guys!

bethsmiles · January 2016

Etiquette is about making your guests feel comfortable and welcome. In general those are pretty universal things - don't make people pay for anything, don't ask for cash or really any gifts (this gets confused a lot about what people are comfortable giving vs. feeling like that gives you the right to ask for it), invite everyone to every part so no one feels lesser than other guests, etc. Doing these things is not going to offend anyone, not doing them absolutely heightens your chance of offended your guests.

jacques27 · January 2016

Etiquette is a customary code of polite conduct. Being polite is never out of fashion and is universal. Are there some variations? Sure. In Japan, custom dictates that bowing is used when greeting and etiquette dictates how the bow is performed depending on circumstance. We do not have that in the U.S.

Some of the things you list are customary, but customary doesn't necessarily = polite (etiquette). The Chinese customarily give money (nothing specifically impolite about this), but that doesn't make specifically demanding the money be put into a specific fund as the recipient chooses (aka a Honeyfund) or generally dictating how the person must give any gift a polite thing to do. The UK may find that tiered weddings are generally accepted, but is ranking and excluding some of your friends generally a "polite thing to do"? Just because you (general) may not care, doesn't mean it's polite. One further - people use it to excuse the money dance. Have some cultures practiced that during a different time period? Yes. Is carrying that practice forward appropriate when it is no longer a financial necessity and society in general does not find soliciting money from people you are hosting to be a polite thing to do? Probably not.

Generally speaking, you are practicing good etiquette when asking yourself "Is this a polite thing to do? Am I treating people well?" If you're appropriating customs to justify something that would not be polite or treating people well, then it's not good etiquette, regardless of your region.

CMGragain · January 2016

The etiquette books I use are written specifically for Americans and Canadians. I do not claim to be an authority on foreign wedding customs. This is why we have the cultural boards on the Knot.
The advice given here is usually valid for any wedding held in the USA or Canada, except for Native American tribal ceremonies, and those brides do not post here.
Just because something is posted on the internet does not make it so. I have seen wedding invitation companies with terrible wording examples! (Vistaprint) You can always find a post to justify an idea, even if the idea is rude and tacky (like Honeymoon Funds). The wedding industry is only interested in persuading you to spend more money. $$$ They don't care if you offend your guests. Never take etiquette advice from a source that will profit if you take their advice, like tuxedo rental shops or bridal salons.

OP, why don't you just open a new post and ask about whatever etiquette rule you were concerned about breaking?

levioosa · January 2016

People use the "regional etiquette" rule to make excuses for treating their guests poorly, or to justify crappy things for their own convenience. Etiquette is about treating your guests properly, and making sure they are hosted well. That's it.

thisismynickname2 · January 2016

Similar to what's said above, I just believe people too easily mix up customs with etiquette. Just because something is customary doesn't mean people could still be offended by it; doesn't mean it's not against etiquette. A tiered reception is something that I would be offended by, even if it was popular in my area to do it. I wouldn't feel good enough as a second tier guest and would rather just not go. If an established couple had a money dance, regardless of custom I'd see it as greedy and like my original gift wasn't good enough for them. Good etiquette means not making your guests uncomfortable.

I've also heard of this mythical UK trend of tiered weddings, but, look at the Royal Wedding. It was tiered as follows: Everyone at the Church was treated to a reception with food. A smaller group then went to dinner. An even smaller group partied late into the night. For some reason, the etiquette-abhorrent reverse seems to be thought of by some brides that come through here- small group witnessing the ceremony and maybe treated to dinner, large group able to come party later. Since custom dictates that we try to give people wedding gifts, the tiering results in an uncomfortable feeling to be invited to celebrate a wedding that you're not allowed to witness. Hence, poor etiquette to tier that way.

Viczaesar · January 2016

levioosa said:

People use the "regional etiquette" rule to make excuses for treating their guests poorly, or to justify crappy things for their own convenience. Etiquette is about not treating your guests properly, and making sure they are hosted well. That's it.

FTFY.

JediElizabeth · January 2016

Viczaesar said:

levioosa said:

People use the "regional etiquette" rule to make excuses for treating their guests poorly, or to justify crappy things for their own convenience. Etiquette is about not treating your guests properly, and making sure they are hosted well. That's it.

FTFY.

????

Did you read properly as poorly there? I think I did that at first, too.

LondonLisa · January 2016

JBee85 said:

I need to ask this because I am getting very confused.

I am a lurker. I have come across many baffling responses for etiquette questions on multiple wedding planning websites. The latest justification I’ve been reading is that "etiquette is based on region." “In UK tiered weddings are acceptable,” or “Chinese people give you money, so registering for a Honeyfund is ok.” Yet here I read the complete opposite and that etiquette – no matter where you’re from - is universal.

I’m just curious and need explanations:

Why would etiquette be considered universal rather than regional?

And where did the “regional etiquette” explanation came from? Is there some truth to it or is it just a convenient excuse to use?

Thanks guys!

Image: http://wallpapers.tabissh.club/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/grumpy-cat-no.jpg

Tiered weddings are very rude in the UK. A few chavs try to get away with it but it is generally considered to be rude, rude rude!

photokitty · January 2016

LondonLisa said:

JBee85 said:

I need to ask this because I am getting very confused.

I am a lurker. I have come across many baffling responses for
etiquette questions on multiple wedding planning websites. The latest justification
I’ve been reading is that "etiquette is based on region." “In
UK tiered weddings are acceptable,” or “Chinese people give you money, so
registering for a Honeyfund is ok.” Yet here I read the complete opposite and
that etiquette – no matter where you’re from - is universal.

I’m just curious and need explanations:

Why would etiquette be considered universal rather than regional?

And where did the “regional etiquette” explanation came from?
Is there some truth to it or is it just a convenient excuse to use?

Thanks guys!

Tiered weddings are very rude in the UK. A few chavs try to get away with it but it is generally considered to be rude, rude rude!

I LOVE it when you set the record straight on this topic, you never fail me! And I love it even more bc you use the word "chavs!" sometimes I wish this question was asked more frequently just for My personal amusement

kimmiinthemitten · January 2016

What bothers me about this question is etiquette vs tradition (or custom) and regional vs national.

Yes, etiquette, in general, varies. In some nations burping after a meal is a compliment. In others eating everything on your plate symbolizes that your host did not give you enough food to satisfy you. In some cultures, you remove your shoes before entering the dining room. But in none of these examples do you violate traditional wedding etiquette.

What I think people mean to say is that traditions vary regionally, and therefore are okay. However, when you use that excuse to justify a custom that is in poor taste, it is still a violation of etiquette, no matter how many times you have seen it done.

For example, in parts of Pennsylvania, a cookie table is commonly found at weddings where various guests bring a plate of cookies for desert. I wouldn't say this is a breach of etiquette as long as the guest offered it and it isn't required for entry into the reception. All guests are aware in advance and may or may not bring a dessert and may or may not choose to join in and enjoy it later.

Compare this to a cash bar, where most guests realize after they get there that they have to pay for drinks and have to pay if they want to enjoy that part of the reception. Tradition vs etiquette.

peachy13 · January 2016

It seems pretty common that people confuse etiquette with familiar wedding customs. For example, a poster may ask on TK how to keep her guests busy during the 3 hour gap in between her ceremony and reception. Knotties will (correctly) insist it's against etiquette to leave your guests high and dry, unhosted for 3 hours during your wedding, while the poster will fight back saying it's okay because everyone in her town has a 3 hour gap and that guests expect it.

It happens all the time here, which is why lurking is good!

PrettyGirlLost · January 2016

kimmiinthemitten said:

What bothers me about this question is etiquette vs tradition (or custom) and regional vs national.

Yes, etiquette, in general, varies. In some nations burping after a meal is a compliment. In others eating everything on your plate symbolizes that your host did not give you enough food to satisfy you. In some cultures, you remove your shoes before entering the dining room. But in none of these examples do you violate traditional wedding etiquette. I wouldn't consider those examples of etiquette, though. Those seem like examples of local customs.

What I think people mean to say is that traditions vary regionally, and therefore are okay. However, when you use that excuse to justify a custom that is in poor taste, it is still a violation of etiquette, no matter how many times you have seen it done.

For example, in parts of Pennsylvania, a cookie table is commonly found at weddings where various guests bring a plate of cookies for desert. I wouldn't say this is a breach of etiquette as long as the guest offered it and it isn't required for entry into the reception. All guests are aware in advance and may or may not bring a dessert and may or may not choose to join in and enjoy it later.

Compare this to a cash bar, where most guests realize after they get there that they have to pay for drinks and have to pay if they want to enjoy that part of the reception. Tradition vs etiquette.

kimmiinthemitten · January 2016

@PrettyGirlLost to be honest, I didn't know the difference when I first joined so I researched the difference between etiquette and customs when I joined, but I think you may be right on second thought.

Etiquette is "the customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group." Customs or traditions are the acts born out of that code.

So in theory, showing gratitude to the chef/cook would be etiquette, the act of belching or leaving a small amount on the plate is the custom to express said gratitude.

delujm0 · January 2016

thisismynickname said:

Similar to what's said above, I just believe people too easily mix up customs with etiquette. Just because something is customary doesn't mean people could still be offended by it; doesn't mean it's not against etiquette. A tiered reception is something that I would be offended by, even if it was popular in my area to do it. I wouldn't feel good enough as a second tier guest and would rather just not go. If an established couple had a money dance, regardless of custom I'd see it as greedy and like my original gift wasn't good enough for them. Good etiquette means not making your guests uncomfortable.

I've also heard of this mythical UK trend of tiered weddings, but, look at the Royal Wedding. It was tiered as follows: Everyone at the Church was treated to a reception with food. A smaller group then went to dinner. An even smaller group partied late into the night. For some reason, the etiquette-abhorrent reverse seems to be thought of by some brides that come through here- small group witnessing the ceremony and maybe treated to dinner, large group able to come party later. Since custom dictates that we try to give people wedding gifts, the tiering results in an uncomfortable feeling to be invited to celebrate a wedding that you're not allowed to witness. Hence, poor etiquette to tier that way.

This bothers me too. The Royal Wedding wasn't really "tiered" - they peoperly had a reception for everyone that was invited to the ceremony. Later in the day, they had a completely separate dinner that fewer people were invited to. And then they had a late night event, which was also a completelly separate event. I mean these events had gaps between them, people went home/to their hotel rooms, changed their clothes, etc. The actual WEDDING ended after the reception. They then had a few additional events at other venues later in the day. And they hosted everyone that was invited to those separate events properly.

This would be like if an American couple had a morning wedding followed by a brunch reception. After the reception, the wedding event is over. They don't have to invite everyone that was at the wedding ceremony to dinner that night, even if they decide to take a few wedding VIPs to a restaurant and pay for it. Separate event. If they want to go to a bar with some friends after that dinner, and pay for drinks, they can do that without inviting and hosting every single wedding guest. Separate event. No etiquette breach. A wedding isn't an entire day. it is a ceremony followed by a reception, and then it is over.

Instead American brides use the Roayl Wedding as an excuse to have a tiered RECEPTION - which is ONE EVENT. They invite people to a ceremony and then feed them, but then - at the SAME EVENT, they later invite other people who they do not host properly. This is the opposite of the Royal Wedding. This is conducting one single event in a tiered fashion, and is extremely rude. This is saying "come to my reception even though you weren't invited to the ceremony and i'm not going to feed you - but you're invited to the reception, so don't forget a gift!" It's just the worst. If you want to emulate the Royal Wedding, go ahead - but do it properly. I'm convinced that 90% of the brides who do this and use the Royal Wedding as their excuse don't actually know what happened at the Royal Wedding.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2016

kimmiinthemitten said:

@PrettyGirlLost to be honest, I didn't know the difference when I first joined so I researched the difference between etiquette and customs when I joined, but I think you may be right on second thought.

Etiquette is "the customary code of polite behavior in society or among members of a particular profession or group." Customs or traditions are the acts born out of that code.

So in theory, showing gratitude to the chef/cook would be etiquette, the act of belching or leaving a small amount on the plate is the custom to express said gratitude.

I think you are on to something here!

MrsMack10612 · January 2016

@PrettyGirlLost & @kimmiinthemitten - I think there is a lot of confusion between etiquette and regional customs. The same way there is confusion between etiquette and tradition.

Traditionally, the bride is escorted down the aisle by her father but there is no breach of etiquette if this doesn't happen.

MandyMost · January 2016

I like the saying "just because people do it, doesn't mean it's right".

In my area/family most people have a cash bar. Just because a lot of people do it doesn't mean it's right. Lots of catholic weddings in particular have a gap. Just because it happens, doesn't mean it's right.

InLoveInQueens · January 2016

This is some good timing, this post just popped up on everyone's favorite wedding planning forum and it's full of the examples of bad etiquette people are sharing here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/weddingplanning/comments/3zjr79/for_those_who_have_had_a_stagbuck_and_doe_for/

Heffalump · January 2016

InLoveInQueens said:

This is some good timing, this post just popped up on everyone's favorite wedding planning forum and it's full of the examples of bad etiquette people are sharing here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/weddingplanning/comments/3zjr79/for_those_who_have_had_a_stagbuck_and_doe_for/

Ugh. Just...ugh. You know what kills me?

"This is not a forum for your perceived offenses to etiquette. We're all just trying to have a nice wedding, we don't need to abuse fellow brides. "

No, see, if you were really trying to have a nice wedding, then you would be interested in treating your guests well by following etiquette. Apparently over there, "trying to have a nice wedding" means "stamping my foot and doing whatever the hell I feel like because I'm special!"

glasgowtolondon · January 2016

Its amazing how many things I didn't realise were poor etiquette until I started lurking on tk! No idea that inviting people to the evening reception was rude, cos it happens all the time so thats just what happens. Cash bars - I'd pretty much only ever been to one wedding with an open bar (which basically blew our minds at the time, ha!) so I'd just never even considered that it wasn't just what you did. Then people point out that its rude and then...it makes sense. That one wedding with the open bar? Easily the best wedding I've ever been to. Didn't make it hard for us to decide the most important thing for us was food and drink. Ladies here made me want to do better than what I thought was the done thing.

Oh yeah, and my mum is so unhappy with me about the bar situation. Classic 'paying for others to get drunk' attitude towards it. She hasn't seen it done so she doesn't see the point.

Cookie Pusher · January 2016

glasgowtolondon said:

Its amazing how many things I didn't realise were poor etiquette until I started lurking on tk! No idea that inviting people to the evening reception was rude, cos it happens all the time so thats just what happens. Cash bars - I'd pretty much only ever been to one wedding with an open bar (which basically blew our minds at the time, ha!) so I'd just never even considered that it wasn't just what you did. Then people point out that its rude and then...it makes sense. That one wedding with the open bar? Easily the best wedding I've ever been to. Didn't make it hard for us to decide the most important thing for us was food and drink. Ladies here made me want to do better than what I thought was the done thing. Oh yeah, and my mum is so unhappy with me about the bar situation. Classic 'paying for others to get drunk' attitude towards it. She hasn't seen it done so she doesn't see the point.

Yes, because people don't get drunk when they have to pay for their own drinks... said no bartender ever.

glasgowtolondon · January 2016

Cookie Pusher said:

glasgowtolondon said:

Its amazing how many things I didn't realise were poor etiquette until I started lurking on tk! No idea that inviting people to the evening reception was rude, cos it happens all the time so thats just what happens. Cash bars - I'd pretty much only ever been to one wedding with an open bar (which basically blew our minds at the time, ha!) so I'd just never even considered that it wasn't just what you did. Then people point out that its rude and then...it makes sense. That one wedding with the open bar? Easily the best wedding I've ever been to. Didn't make it hard for us to decide the most important thing for us was food and drink. Ladies here made me want to do better than what I thought was the done thing.

Oh yeah, and my mum is so unhappy with me about the bar situation. Classic 'paying for others to get drunk' attitude towards it. She hasn't seen it done so she doesn't see the point.

Yes, because people don't get drunk when they have to pay for their own drinks... said no bartender ever.

-------------

That's what we said! She can be an odd bird sometimes, my chose tactic is the speedy subject change!

Eta: boxes...

MobKaz · January 2016

MandyMost said:

I like the saying "just because people do it, doesn't mean it's right".

In my area/family most people have a cash bar. Just because a lot of people do it doesn't mean it's right. Lots of catholic weddings in particular have a gap. Just because it happens, doesn't mean it's right.

Lots of rude brides have gaps. Many polite brides, Catholic or otherwise, know to avoid gaps and go to great lengths to do so.

lightningsnow · January 2016

InLoveInQueens said:

This is some good timing, this post just popped up on everyone's favorite wedding planning forum and it's full of the examples of bad etiquette people are sharing here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/weddingplanning/comments/3zjr79/for_those_who_have_had_a_stagbuck_and_doe_for/

Oh my Jesus with the whole "everyone I know does it so it's okay" attitude. Okay, my family and BF's family are known to throw Jack and Jill's, which is the same as is being described here, for the couple. I would prefer not to have one when we do end up getting married. I have said it several times and I'm sure it will go in one ear and out the other.

I hate them because I do not carry cash on me. It makes me feel awkward when I have no cash for the stupid raffles. You know what else my family is known to do? Cash bars. We will never have one.

JBee85 · January 2016

I am already married. I got a sister who just got engaged. I also had a Catholic wedding. I had a cocktail hour right after the ceremony, so no gaps.

Yep, most of these excuses are coming from places like Reddit's sub forums.

Thanks for clarifying ladies!

CMGragain · January 2016

Here are the only important rules of etiquette:

1. Your guests comfort and convenience are most important. (A seat for every butt, plenty of refreshments, no gaps, and a comfortable venue at a reasonable time.)

2. The host is responsible for seeing that the guests are informed and well cared for. (See the above.)

3. The honorees (bride and groom) are grateful to the guests, hosts and attendants for coming to witness their wedding. (They thank every guest personally for coming, and write thank you notes ASAP.)

4. All guests must be treated equally. (No tiered receptions.)

That about covers it. Here is what is necessary to have a wedding:

1. A couple who is legally able to be married.
2. A marriage license, valid in the place of the ceremony.
3. A licensed officiant (except in PA and CO.)
4. Legal witnesses required by the state.

Anything that does not have all of the above is NOT a wedding. White dresses, guests, attendants, open bars, DJs, limos, even cake. are not required to have a real wedding. They are traditions, not etiquette.

[Deleted User] · January 2016

JBee85 said:

I need to ask this because I am getting very confused.

I am a lurker. I have come across many baffling responses for etiquette questions on multiple wedding planning websites. The latest justification I’ve been reading is that "etiquette is based on region." “In UK tiered weddings are acceptable,” or “Chinese people give you money, so registering for a Honeyfund is ok.” Yet here I read the complete opposite and that etiquette – no matter where you’re from - is universal.

I’m just curious and need explanations:

Why would etiquette be considered universal rather than regional?

And where did the “regional etiquette” explanation came from? Is there some truth to it or is it just a convenient excuse to use?

Thanks guys!

I am very fond of saying that the one and only rule of etiquette is Don't Be An Asshole.

Do I need a chair for all of my guests, or can some sit on a blanket on the ground? Yes, you need chairs for everyone, don't be an asshole.

Do I need to invite my Best Man's wife who I've never met? Yes, you need to invite all significant others, don't be an asshole.

Etc.

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