France & Italy in June

100yroldblinddog · April 2016

Hi Knotties,

The FI and I are flying from the US to France & Italy in June to honeymoon, and it's our first big trip. I'm curious if anyone has traveled there (Paris, Venice and Rome, specifically) and has any tips to share (Should I pack my own shampoo? Will I really be flanked by selfie stick sellers outside the Vatican?, etc.).

Anything you can share is appreciated. Thanks!

JoanE2012 · April 2016

I've been to all three. No matter where I travel, I always bring my own shampoo. I just usually prefer it to the hotel varieties. I see selfie sticks everywhere - I remember lots of people selling them near the Eiffel Tower when we went to Paris last fall. We went to Italy several years ago before the selfie stick thing really took off. I'm sure they're selling them there too.

bleve0821 · April 2016

They'll jump in your face everywhere trying to sell you selfie sticks. It's the most obnoxious thing I've ever seen. Good luck going in June--it'll be hot and very, very crowded. Bring lots of water and sunscreen.

In Venice, make sure you see St. Mark's Square at night (that's where FI proposed!). Gondola was cool, but kinda awkward for me due to the fact we'd just gotten engaged and were sitting in a boat with a stranger... The islands of Murano and Burano were really cool, but once you've seen one Murano glass shop, you've seen them all. I just liked sitting at the cafes near the canals and sampling the local cuisine. It was the end of our trip so I was just plain exhausted.

Rome is huge. I hope you're planning on spending several days there, especially if you want to see the Vatican. Lines to see St. Peter's Basilica were up to 6 hours long, and we didn't even go in peak tourist season (we were there in May). FI's favorite place in Rome was the only Gothic church, the Santa Maria sopra Minerva. It's nondescript, but not far from the Pantheon, but the ceilings... Just wow. When you go to Rome, make sure you check to see what famous landmarks are undergoing reconstruction... We wasted so much time trying to get to the Trevi Fountain, only to find there was zero to see. We skipped the Colosseum tour. If you're there for a few days, go see some of the museums. They're all impressive. AND WATCH OUT FOR SCAMMERS AND PICKPOCKETS. Don't let anyone put a bird on your shoulder. They'll charge you like 5€ for the "honor."

The public restrooms are a nightmare, so whenever you need to use the loo, find a nearby cafe and buy a beer or a wine and use theirs. Trust me, it's a much better option.

climbingsingle · April 2016

Thankfully we were in Europe before selfie sticks became a thing (in 2013 and 2014).

I always bring my own shampoo and conditioner with me, but I'm picky like that.

In Venice, haggle over the price of the gondola rides. Some will try to overcharge you. Also, we splurged on our own water taxi from the train station. I'm so glad we did. It was really cool.

STARMOON44 · April 2016

You'll have a great time! These are really easy cities to see as a new tourist, the weather will be fantastic. I would pack your own shampoo because I don't usually like hotels' versions, and consider a private early morning tour of the Vatican.

100yroldblinddog · April 2016

This is great, ladies! Thanks! Was there anything you didn't pack that you wished you had?

bleve0821 · April 2016

Probably more socks. We did a lot of walking and not a lot of laundry

ernursej · April 2016

Hot time of year to go, but lovely places. If you have time, I loved walking down Avenue des Champs-Élysées, going up the Arc de Triomphe and Versailles. If you are going to the Louvre, get tickets ahead of time. Will save you hours in line.

STARMOON44 · April 2016

100yroldblinddog said:

This is great, ladies! Thanks! Was there anything you didn't pack that you wished you had?

Opposite. Lots of stuff I pack I wish I hadn't. It gets heavy and inconvenient to travel around with. I really pare my clothes down to the essentials and make lists of what I might wear each day. I don't bring options. If it's a wear a dress thing I am wearing the one dress I brought. And I always bring sneakers. Are they the cutest? Nope. But after days and days of walking I need a comfy option

CMGragain · April 2016

I have been to all these cities. Expect to do a lot of walking.
Go buy Rick Steves guides to Italy and to Paris. They will give you a lot of very practical information.
http://www.amazon.com/Rick-Steves-Italy-2016/dp/1631211838/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1460681429&sr=8-3&keywords=rick+steves
http://www.amazon.com/Rick-Steves-Paris-2016/dp/1631211854/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1460681429&sr=8-4&keywords=rick+steves

I would recommend seeing Rome, Florence and Venice and saving Paris for another time. Transportation is easy by train.

Rome: antiquity and the Vatican.
Florence: art and the Renaissance
Venice: history, gondolas, and glass.

Packing: Europe is more formal than we are in the USA. Forget the jeans. Go with khaki pants, tees and light sweaters for daytime. One dress, preferably drip dry basic black. No shorts or tank tops. Bring a few glittery pins and scarfs for evening.
If you are taking your purse, choose one with a zip closure and a shoulder strap - no open tote styles. Pick pocketing is a problem. Your need your bank card and one Mastercard or Visa. USA cards often do not work in Europe. We promise to fix this, but we haven't. Call your credit card provider, and tell them that you are visiting Europe, and ask instructions. Leave all your other credit cards at home.
Leave your passport in your hotel safe. Major hassle if this gets stolen on the street.
I like to carry a paper printout of USA sizes and their European equivalents.
DO NOT put any meds in your checked luggage! Same for jewelry! Put them in your purse or carry-on.
If you need shampoo in Europe, it is easy to buy it anywhere. They use it, too. Weight is precious when traveling overseas.
The last time we were in Europe, our credit card info was stolen electronically. Use caution when using the hotel wifi. Don't buy anything on line while traveling.

Good, inexpensive souvenirs: micromosaic pins, Venchi Italian chocolate "Cuba Rhum" truffles for grownups only, museum postcards, your own photos.

100yroldblinddog · April 2016

CMGragain said:

I have been to all these cities. Expect to do a lot of walking.
Go buy Rick Steves guides to Italy and to Paris. They will give you a lot of very practical information.
http://www.amazon.com/Rick-Steves-Italy-2016/dp/1631211838/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1460681429&sr=8-3&keywords=rick+steves
http://www.amazon.com/Rick-Steves-Paris-2016/dp/1631211854/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1460681429&sr=8-4&keywords=rick+steves

I would recommend seeing Rome, Florence and Venice and saving Paris for another time. Transportation is easy by train.

Rome: antiquity and the Vatican.
Florence: art and the Renaissance
Venice: history, gondolas, and glass.

Packing: Europe is more formal than we are in the USA. Forget the jeans. Go with khaki pants, tees and light sweaters for daytime. One dress, preferably drip dry basic black. No shorts or tank tops. Bring a few glittery pins and scarfs for evening.
If you are taking your purse, choose one with a zip closure and a shoulder strap - no open tote styles. Pick pocketing is a problem. Your need your bank card and one Mastercard or Visa. USA cards often do not work in Europe. We promise to fix this, but we haven't. Call your credit card provider, and tell them that you are visiting Europe, and ask instructions. Leave all your other credit cards at home.
Leave your passport in your hotel safe. Major hassle if this gets stolen on the street.
I like to carry a paper printout of USA sizes and their European equivalents.
DO NOT put any meds in your checked luggage! Same for jewelry! Put them in your purse or carry-on.
If you need shampoo in Europe, it is easy to buy it anywhere. They use it, too. Weight is precious when traveling overseas.
The last time we were in Europe, our credit card info was stolen electronically. Use caution when using the hotel wifi. Don't buy anything on line while traveling.

Good, inexpensive souvenirs: micromosaic pins, Venchi Italian chocolate "Cuba Rhum" truffles for grownups only, museum postcards, your own photos.

Rick Steves's guides are already on my nightstand! And the itinerary is booked - Paris is a go for sure. I do wish we had more time to do Florence, but we plan to travel frequently in the future, so I will get there sooner or later. :-)

Thanks for so many great tips!

climbingsingle · April 2016

100yroldblinddog said:

This is great, ladies! Thanks! Was there anything you didn't pack that you wished you had?

I definitely brought way too many clothes with me on our HM. We rented an apartment in Florence and had a washer/dryer, which we used a few times.

Make sure you have a good cross body bag or backpack.

Our luggage was lost and didn't arrive until the next day, so I was very happy I packed my toothbrush and a change of underwear in my carry-on. This is good advice for always, because I've had luggage lost a few times.

Make sure to leave room in your luggage to bring stuff home.

Totally cheesy, but I kept a journal during our HM. H and I wrote in it each day and talked about the things we did and ate, what we liked and didn't. It's so fun to go back and read it.

bleve0821 · April 2016

I kept a journal, too! Not cheesy at all. It was actually in the back of a travel journal I found at a yard sale that someone had written in during the '60's. The woman before me visited a lot of the same places we did, which was so cool. But she filled 8 whole pages about how much she wanted coffee on the train on the way to Rome and how she couldn't get it anywhere she went... and nothing about the city.

Oh, another thing I wished I'd had that I didn't pack was a broad-brimmed hat. We had lots of sunscreen, but I would have loved to have had a hat.

ernursej · April 2016

Unless the trip is more than a month (use to be longer than 2-3 weeks ... but I've been working really hard to improve) or a ski trip, I only pack carry on. It has revolutionized the amount of clothing I pack and really ensures that I'm multi-purposing everything. I know that is not necessarily reasonable for everyone, but I really encourage people to pack less clothing.

CMGragain · April 2016

One other tip. Leave the baseball caps at home! They mark you as an American, and a target for thieves. Also, Europeans do not wear athletic shoes on the street.

100yroldblinddog · April 2016

Thanks @CMGragain! My FI is a big ball cap wearer (always touting his Pittsburgh Pirates fandom in Philly, but that's another story), so I must pass that on!

ernursej · April 2016

I also recommend loading maps/websites of places you are intending to visit to phones and not carrying your guide book out of your hotel room. A guide book is a sure fire way to be marked as a tourist.

Sherbie25 · April 2016

Rome is easily done in 2 days, or 3 days leisurely. If you are staying in the centre you are able to walk to everything you need to. They do have a subway system that will get you around when you can't be bothered to walk as much. If you go to the Vatican go early in the morning, say around 8, the queues won't be as bad.
Paris- my favourite thing to do is walk from the Arc de Triomphe all the way down the Champs Elysees to the Louvre. It's literally a straight road. From there, it is a reasonable walk to the Notre Dame cathedral. Again, Paris has a subway system, and it is substantially better than Rome's; I put it on a par with London and New York's.

Enjoy!

STARMOON44 · April 2016

I would definitely NOT skip jeans in favor of khaki pants!! Sorry @CMGragain I love you, but khakis are grandma territory. Europeans absolutely wear jeans all the time, basically everywhere. Just like New Yorkers. Skinny jeans and fashion-y sneakers are everywhere, at least in the day time. Personally in June I'd bring 3 or 4 dresses, one skirt, and one pair of jeans- just because I get way too hot in jeans when it is over 78 degrees. But please please do not wear khaki pants if you're under 50.

I agree about the hats though, and my should I wear this barometer for sneakers is that if I would wear them to go for a run, they aren't for casual strolling. And flip-flops are for pool side or the beach.

At at the end of the day though you have zero chance of blending in with the locals, so as long as you're dressed appropriately for visiting churches and not wearing mom jeans and a fanny pack no need to stress too much about the style unless, like me, you love buying a whole new wardrobe for vacation (if you are buying new stuff pick a few co-ordinating colors and stick to them! Mix and match and repeating is a travel must).

CMGragain · April 2016

Yes, well I am a Grandma, and I was giving travel advice, not fashion advice. Jeans weigh a lot, and traveling light is a plus. Most of the young people I saw in Italy wore black - even in August. I wear jeans at home.
DH is self conscious, and won't wear Hawaiian shirts, baseball caps, fanny packs, or sneakers in Europe.
Now that my bandages are off, I can wear dresses again! Yay! I'm up late, but I plan to go to church tomorrow wearing a dress that shows my newly restyled legs.
Oh, and I love being old enough that I can wear comfortable shoes without apologies or guilt.

monkeysip · April 2016

STARMOON44 said:

I would definitely NOT skip jeans in favor of khaki pants!! Sorry @CMGragain I love you, but khakis are grandma territory. Europeans absolutely wear jeans all the time, basically everywhere. Just like New Yorkers. Skinny jeans and fashion-y sneakers are everywhere, at least in the day time. Personally in June I'd bring 3 or 4 dresses, one skirt, and one pair of jeans- just because I get way too hot in jeans when it is over 78 degrees. But please please do not wear khaki pants if you're under 50.

I agree about the hats though, and my should I wear this barometer for sneakers is that if I would wear them to go for a run, they aren't for casual strolling. And flip-flops are for pool side or the beach.

At at the end of the day though you have zero chance of blending in with the locals, so as long as you're dressed appropriately for visiting churches and not wearing mom jeans and a fanny pack no need to stress too much about the style unless, like me, you love buying a whole new wardrobe for vacation (if you are buying new stuff pick a few co-ordinating colors and stick to them! Mix and match and repeating is a travel must).

Agreed with this. I try not to stick out too much, so I avoid any shirts with english writing or anything obviously American. But I still wear my jeans, and I still wear athletic shoes sometimes because let's face it, you're walking alllll day and you need comfortable shoes!

Ditto to packing light and wearing a cross body purse. I brought with me just a small cross body purse last time I went to Europe, and I'm glad I did. Kept it in front of me the whole time (not swung to the back).

TNDancer · April 2016

If you have the budget, I would suggest getting a private your guide for 1 day in Rome. My family went when I was in high school. This woman got us a van and we went all over the city. We just walked up to the front of the line at the Vatican, she shouted and some of the guards in Italian, and boom we were in. ( I did get the impression she was $$$ but don't have details)

climbingsingle · April 2016

TNDancer said:

If you have the budget, I would suggest getting a private your guide for 1 day in Rome. My family went when I was in high school. This woman got us a van and we went all over the city. We just walked up to the front of the line at the Vatican, she shouted and some of the guards in Italian, and boom we were in. ( I did get the impression she was $$$ but don't have details)

Yes to this! We did this in Florence, Barcelona and Monaco. Tours By Locals.

kvruns · April 2016

I always wonder what shoes people wear for trips like this when you'll be walking a lot if you say running shoes/sneakers are a no-no.

JoanE2012 · April 2016

kvruns said:

I always wonder what shoes people wear for trips like this when you'll be walking a lot if you say running shoes/sneakers are a no-no.

I'm in Europe now on a river cruise. I'm wearing sneakers on walking tours. Most of the other guests are too. I don't care if I stick out like a tourist - I am one! If my sneakers don't give it away, my camera will. Or my map. Or my NJ accent. Or my jeans! (Sorry, I'm not doing khakis in Europe!). We're just safe with what we carry and where we carry it so we're not pickpocket victims.

cstar1015 · April 2016

We went to Paris and Barcelona for our honeymoon last June. When I went to Europe 10 years ago, wearing American clothes with English words would definitely peg you as American--- not the case any more! All of the Europeans were wearing A&F, and looked more "American" than we did.

It was VERY hot- and I still brought a sweater to cover my shoulders in sagrada familia (church in Barcelona). I was also shocked to see anything goes - cut off shorts, crop tops, and a ton of selfie sticks. I think in Italy, they're more strict, but yeah. Was shocked.

My advice? Take items you can wear more than once and try to carry on. If you're going a bunch of places, which is sounds like you are- a giant bag will only make you miserable trying to carry it on the metro, up steps, cobblestones, etc. We were gone for 2 weeks and it was doable. That being said, especially in summer, spring to get your clothes laundered half way through the trip. Air conditioning is not what we have here and you sweat- I literally had to buy clothes for the ride home because everything in my suitcase was musky!

Look to Anthony Bourdain for neighborhoods and places to visit that aren't so touristy-- local places off the beaten path make it special, rather than trying to check off touristy places. One of my favorite meals was wine and cheese from the supermarket, and bread from the bakery and we just hung out under the Eiffel Tower and enjoyed the people watching.

Enjoy! Very jealous- we loved our time in Europe!

SP29 · April 2016

I went to Paris 8 years ago with some friends. One of my friends was living there for the summer and said the same thing about clothes. People dress less casual, big into whatever is in style at the time- so don't wear jeans or mini skirts as you'll stick out like a sore thumb. But we probably did anyway

I did not bring the most comfortable shoes, because you know, I wanted to look cute traveling the streets of Paris. That is what I would change- after 8 hours of walking- WEAR THE COMFORTABLE SHOES!

Bring back up memory cards for your camera. We spent 7 days in Paris and 3 in London and bought extra SD cards as we filled our cameras up.

Public bathrooms are less common (there are public port-a-potties on the streets, but they close at night) and restaurants/bars won't let you use theirs unless you are a paying customer.

If you can buy tickets for places (museums, etc) ahead of time- do it. You can save yourself money and save yourself line ups.

Buy a metro pass. So easy to use and efficient!

Wine is cheaper than water. At the time, a wine for 8 euros was considered a "good" wine (good enough you would bring it to someone's house as a hostess gift).

You must go the Louvre, and you MUST see Versaille (you'll need all day to see it). As cheesy as it is, I would also spend the time/money to go to the top of the Eiffel Tower. Eat at the restaurant Chez Janeau- get the chocolate mousse- the BEST you have ever had! Buy a bottle of wine and drink it sitting along the side of the Seine one evening- that'll make you feel like a real Parisienne. I wanted to do a tour of the catacombs, but ran out of time. Sacre Couer is also very pretty, and a nice walk, free, and small line. It is also right around the corner from the Moulin Rouge. There is an Italian gelato store called Amorino- I highly recommend the nutella and raspberry gelato. Though if you're going to Italy, you'll probably find the best there

. So many awesome places/buildings/parks/architecture to see! We did a ton of walking.

We were told that at many tourist spots (such as the stairs that lead to Sacre Couer) that people will try to sell you things, going so far as to put a bracelet on you without your permission and then demand you pay for it. Fortunately we didn't see any of this. Don't leave your purse or camera lying ANYWHERE- another friend traveling left her big camera on the counter in a bathroom and it was GONE.

Enjoy! Ah.... I'd love to go back.

thisismynickname2 · April 2016

kvruns said:

I always wonder what shoes people wear for trips like this when you'll be walking a lot if you say running shoes/sneakers are a no-no.

I wear black flats with a lot of padding. Like a step up from ballet flats. Think like Clarkes or Naturalizer type shoes.
Nothing screams "tourist, pickpocket me" like white sneakers in Europe.
And you're not on your feet alllll the time. Lunch. Espresso. Park benches. You do get to sit and rest, lol.

I think I blend in pretty well; I've been asked for directions in various cities.

P.S. These boards always have people going to the major cities in these countries. Italy? Go to Lake Como! It's fantastic, it's romantic, it's not expensive, and it's not far from Milan.

NotATotalBetty · April 2016

I agree with thisismynickname about considering adding a different area to your trip if you have time: three major cities, although all very unique and different, and you may long for some countryside or coastline or something different. Plus, I know in Paris and Rome and Venice I feel really compelled to see and experience lots of things, and it might not be a bad idea to consider building in a more chill oriented stop with things to see but provides an opportunity to relax as well.

Lake Como is a good idea. To me, the Amalfi Coast seems tailor made for a honeymoon; south of Rome, beautiful flowers, cliffside villages hugging dramatic coastline, gorgeous blue green water (but rocky beaches so prepare accordingly) great gardens to explore in Ravello, cute towns with good shopping in the likes of Positano, not too far from the ruins of Pompeii or Paestum, day trips to Capri, and everywhere really great southern Italian food (burrata and buffalo mozzarella, pasta, fresh seafood, great pizza, etc).

My first overseas vacation with FI was Rome and the Amalfi Coast, and it's the most romantic trip we've been on - and this despite him proposing during our trip to Paris! We loved the pairing of nonstop culture and sightseeing in Rome with some more laid back, indulgent experiences on the coast.

You'll have a fantastic time regardless, but just something else to consider!

hoffse · May 2016

I'm a little late to the party but thought I would chime in. I spent a month in Rome in college, and I am going back with my H and parents in June (along with Venice). I have also been to Paris. I'll split this in into a couple posts because it can get long.

As for what to bring...

First, don't worry about shampoo. Bring enough for a couple days if you must, but it's not like you are going to a third world country. It's always interesting to check out local grocery stores and pharmacies, and you can buy anything you need while you are there. That said, do plan to pack any medications you may need, because they are on metric and it's hard to convert dosages (BTDT).

Don't worry about sticking out like a tourist. Of course you will stick out. Americans dress differently, act differently, etc. If you're going to be out all day you need to prioritize comfort over fashion. Make sure to have a pair of shoes with good treads for any ruins - Roman forum, Colosseum, etc. These ruins are 2000+ years old, and you will regret wearing flip flops, flat soled shoes, or shoes with treads like the Sketchers Go Walks. I took my Sketchers to the south of France last year and nearly killed myself trying to climb the ruins with them. They are absolutely perfect for walking around cities, but it was a terrible idea for the ruins.

Bring less than you think you will need. You will be kicking yourself if you pack two checked bags + a carry-on for a trip like this. Plan to bring clothes that breathe and can be easily washed if needed, and make a list. While you are packing, pull out everything on the list (and ONLY those things), and then find the smallest bag they will fit in. If you pull out the bag first, you will find a way to fill all the available space, and it's going to be a pain to haul that much stuff around. H and I now do 8-10 day trips out of a carry-on.

Make sure you bring a credit card with a chip in it and no foreign transaction fee. Bring your ATM card too and find out if there are any fees to withdraw cash and what your daily limits are. Europe is less credit card-friendly than the US. Make sure to call your banks before you leave. Also, bring a couple extra cards as a backup and wear them securely. My H carries this thing - it fits our cards and passports, and it goes through his belt loops and actually fits inside his pants, so it's completely invisible. He carries 1 card and a few euros on him in an easy-to-access place, but the backup cards and extra cash stays here:

http://www.amazon.com/Eagle-Creek-Undercover-Hidden-Pocket/dp/B0054IH9IE/ref=sr_1_1?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1462382713&sr=1-1&nodeID=7141123011&keywords=eagle+creek+hidden+pocket

hoffse · May 2016

For what to do...

Rome - My favorite city in the world... I spent a month here and didn't see everything, so you will have to prioritize. The Vatican and other churches have a dress code. Shoulders need to be covered and shorts/skirts need to come to the knee (both sexes). At the Vatican, men are supposed to wear pants. It's not enforced everywhere, but it's a YMMV thing, and I don't see a reason to risk it. Outside of the Vatican (which is amazing), my favorite museum is the Borghese Gallery and my favorite church is Santa Maria della Vittoria, which has Bernini's Ecstasy of St. Theresa in it. FYI, some of the best art in the city is inside the churches, which are free to enter. Pop into them as you walk by.

If you aren't going to Amalfi - which I agree is way more romantic than Paris - then take a day and go to Pompeii and Herculaneum if you have time. It's an easy day trip from Rome, and these are some of the best ruins in the world. It beats the pants off of the Roman Forum and Colosseum.

For other day trips to the countryside, try Tivoli (Villa d'Este) and Orvieto.

The best gelatto in Rome is a place called Giolitti near the Pantheon. For a nice dinner, try Alfredo's where fetuccini alfredo was invented.

Venice - I haven't been here yet, but we are going to take a day and see Burano. Also know that Venice floods sometimes, so bring shoes that can get wet.

Paris - If you plan to visit a few museums and monuments, check out the Paris Museum Pass. You have to do the math on it, but H and I got great value out of it and there are skip-the-line privileges. The best part is you can revisit these places as often as you want while the pass is active, so we split the Louvre up into two separate days to save energy. My favorite museum in Paris is the Cluny, which is arguably the best medieval art collection in the world. It's beautifully done, great size, and has almost no tourists. My favorite churches were Sainte Chapelle (get there when it opens to avoid a long line) and Saint-Denis. Saint-Denis is in a seedy part of town where the terrorist shootout occurred last year, but it's also the royal cathedral where nearly all the French kings and queens are buried, including Charles Martel and Marie Antoinette and more Louis than you can count. It's a stunning church and amazing crypt - we thought it was MUCH better than Notre Dame. I would go back in a heartbeat, but obviously it's not the best neighborhood.

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