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Clarification of "Those who pay have a say"

RosesAreRed13RosesAreRed13 member
First Anniversary Name Dropper 5 Love Its First Comment
in Wedding Etiquette Forum
Ok- I have been lurking on the boards long enough to see this saying and understand the meaning.  But can someone help clarify to what extent?  My situation- when me and FI were engaged, FFIL gave a generous engagement gift of $1000 to "help us begin our savings account."  He knows we are paying for our wedding ourselves- he is also our banker, so he also knows how much money we have at all times (this makes me uncomfortable, but when we started our first checking account together 3 years ago there, I didn't  think the lack of privacy through as FI has always used this bank).  ANYWAY, back to my original question :wink:  

When our total wedding cost is $35,000, how much say does his FFIL get in wedding plans after giving that $1000 engagement gift?  Does the amount or percentage of total cost even matter in the idea of "those who pay get a say?"  Do any and all contributions get a say in all aspects?   I'd love to hear some input on this one!
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Re: Clarification of "Those who pay have a say"

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    SaintPaulGalSaintPaulGal member
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    It all comes down to family dynamics.

    I don't think the actual amount or percentage of total spend matters that much unless the giver is asking for specific, more-expensive options that outweigh the amount of the gift.  For example, if your F&B costs $100 per person and someone gives you $1,000 it would be reasonable for them to ask you to invite an additional 10 people but not an additional 30.

    Otherwise, I think it's all a matter of discussions and priorities.  What's important to you, what's important to your partner, what's important to his father, and how can those priorities be balanced.  In the end, I would say you have the final say, but if you go strongly against the giver's wishes you had better be prepared for them to pull their funding.
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    PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost member
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    RosesAreRed13 said:
    Ok- I have been lurking on the boards long enough to see this saying and understand the meaning.  But can someone help clarify to what extent?  My situation- when me and FI were engaged, FFIL gave a generous engagement gift of $1000 to "help us begin our savings account."  He knows we are paying for our wedding ourselves- he is also our banker, so he also knows how much money we have at all times (this makes me uncomfortable, but when we started our first checking account together 3 years ago there, I didn't  think the lack of privacy through as FI has always used this bank).  ANYWAY, back to my original question :wink:  

    When our total wedding cost is $35,000, how much say does his FFIL get in wedding plans after giving that $1000 engagement gift?  Does the amount or percentage of total cost even matter in the idea of "those who pay get a say?"  Do any and all contributions get a say in all aspects?   I'd love to hear some input on this one!
    To me "help you begin your savings account" does not equal money given towards your wedding.  If he called it an engagement gift, then I view that as completely separate from any gift or money given with the express intent for you to use towards your wedding.

    However, it doesn't matter what my interpretation of the intent of that gift was, nor does it matter what anyone else on TK gives you as their interpretation. 

    What you really need to do is talk to your FFIL and find out exactly what his intentions were with that gift.  Then you need to get a new bank account that he doesn't oversee.

    I assume your FFIL is making demands about your wedding or you wouldn't have posted this question. . . what exactly is he asking for?



    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


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    ei34ei34 member
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    If it was truly a gift, as you're calling it, then it doesn't entitle him to any say.  It's nice to honor your parents requests if you can, even if they don't contribute, but an engagement gift isn't the same as helping to pay for your wedding.  H and I received some gifts of $500 and $1000 at our engagement party (which isn't uncommon among NYC Irish/Italians), but we didn't start taking wedding requests from my aunts and uncles, just immediately wrote incredibly thankful thank you cards.

    My sister's ILs weren't originally helping to pay for their wedding, but kept insisting that a particular band play at their wedding.  My BIL kept saying they only had a DJ in the budget, and the ILs ended up paying the difference between the DJ and the band they wanted.  Just as an example of having say when you pay.

    And my FIL is an accountant and used to do H's taxes, but since getting married we've been using someone else.  I don't feel comfortable having my FIL so aware of our financial situation. I definitely wouldn't like the whole bank scenario!
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    RosesAreRed13RosesAreRed13 member
    First Anniversary Name Dropper 5 Love Its First Comment
    edited June 2016
    Loving these posts so far!  @PrettyGirlLost as of now, there haven't been too many demands or requests beyond the guest list (but we are still early in planning, so that may change).  Our venue capacity is 200 and if you count people who are now single who may have a significant other by the time our wedding rolls around, that brings us to 215.  FI and I decided 190 was our limit when we first set out budget.  FFIL and FMIL are insisting they cannot cut their list any more than they already have, which is now putting me and FI in the position of cutting out friends, which we do not want to do.  Their list consists of immediate and extended family, close friends, and neighbors who they (and FI) have known forever.  Before FI approaches parents regarding the need to cut their list, I wanted to make sure we were not stepping over toes as they gave us that gift. 

    To answer @Ironring - a week after we got engaged, FFIL and FMIL gave us an engagement card with a check in it and simply said "this is to start your savings account for your wedding" and FFIL deposited it for us.  The expectation seemed to be in goes into our wedding savings account and was not to be spent on anything non wedding related, as he had us sign it there and brought it to work the next day to be deposited.  

    I too think it's creepy that he has access, and unfortunately, the position that he is in allows him to access our accounts whenever he wants (whether that's against company protocol, I do not know).  FI has told me in the past he would even warn FI when his account was running low---again, I find this strange but unfortunately didn't put a lot of thought into this 3 years ago : :neutral:   

    ETA: I'm really just generally asking  this question- not necessarily because of the guest list issue.  I wanted to get some opinions regarding this saying. 

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    climbingsingleclimbingsingle member
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    I don't think I'd count that as money towards the wedding. It was given as an engagement gift to start off your savings. 
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    kvrunskvruns member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer

    The others gave good advice on the "Say" part. My parents gave us what amounted to about 2/3 of the total wedding cost for ours; they had no "say" in it they basically said here is some $$ we trust you to spend it how you see best. If the contribution was 1/35 of the total budget then in my opinion there isn't a whole lot of "say".


    The bank thing is weird too, although is his dad also on his account? Then I could see him checking on it and being within his rights but otherwise sounds fishy.

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    RosesAreRed13RosesAreRed13 member
    First Anniversary Name Dropper 5 Love Its First Comment
    @PrettyGirlLost I am totally with you.  I've talked to FI about this and he doesn't see a problem with having his dad be his banker as he and each of his siblings, have done their whole lives.  It's a battle I will not win, so how we compromised is I have my own account at my own completely different bank and I transfer money to our joint wedding savings account and our joint checking.  For checking, we only keep in there what we need for the month and nothing more, and replenish it each month. I'm at a loss for what to do about the wedding savings-  I will be approaching FI after our wedding is paid for about having our new savings at my bank (like I said, there's no talking to him now as he literally sees no problem, but once that money is spent, we are back to square one so hopefully he can look at this with fresh eyes).  Long term, he needs to understand how uncomfortable it makes me to have FFIL know how much we have saved.

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    ei34ei34 member
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    @RosesAreRed13 the new info you added about FFIL and the bank is so crazy.  Are there any other banks in your area?  If you feel it's weird you should def talk to your FI about transferring to a new bank.  You'll have many more talks about money/finances in your future this is a great place to start.  (I'm only butting in with my two cents because you said it was creepy..sorry to meddle..)
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    monkeysipmonkeysip member
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    ILoveBeachMusic said:
    I also don't think "those who pays have a say" relates to any religious/ceremony choices. 
    Unfortunately, this is really up to the person paying.  For example, I've seen some parents say "We'll pay for your wedding but it has to be a catholic (or other religious affiliation) wedding".  You can say, "Well, they shouldn't dictate the ceremony", but the reality is that the parents can easily just refuse to pay for the wedding if it doesn't fit their image.  That's when the couple has to decide whether they want to compromise their vision or refuse the money.  

    I agree it's different though if the parents are only paying a small percentage.  But even then, they could still take their money back for any small reason.  The couple has to be prepared for that.

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    ILoveBeachMusicILoveBeachMusic member
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    monkeysip said:
    ILoveBeachMusic said:
    I also don't think "those who pays have a say" relates to any religious/ceremony choices. 
    Unfortunately, this is really up to the person paying.  For example, I've seen some parents say "We'll pay for your wedding but it has to be a catholic (or other religious affiliation) wedding".  You can say, "Well, they shouldn't dictate the ceremony", but the reality is that the parents can easily just refuse to pay for the wedding if it doesn't fit their image.  That's when the couple has to decide whether they want to compromise their vision or refuse the money.  

    I agree it's different though if the parents are only paying a small percentage.  But even then, they could still take their money back for any small reason.  The couple has to be prepared for that.
    I guess you are right about some parents, but I think a lot of times they are more interested in the other areas. I know if I had done that (made church stipulations) to my daughter it would have caused an irreparable rift in our relationship. Therefore, I chose not to be involved in the ceremony other than paying for musicians that we (H and I) thought were necessary since the church only had a piano. That being said I did choose not to participate in parts of the ceremony where I was uncomfortable. The actual ceremony itself I tolerated. I've also seen on these boards where people have said that parents should have no say in the vows and actual ceremony.
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    JediElizabethJediElizabeth member
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    ILoveBeachMusic said:
    monkeysip said:
    ILoveBeachMusic said:
    I also don't think "those who pays have a say" relates to any religious/ceremony choices. 
    Unfortunately, this is really up to the person paying.  For example, I've seen some parents say "We'll pay for your wedding but it has to be a catholic (or other religious affiliation) wedding".  You can say, "Well, they shouldn't dictate the ceremony", but the reality is that the parents can easily just refuse to pay for the wedding if it doesn't fit their image.  That's when the couple has to decide whether they want to compromise their vision or refuse the money.  

    I agree it's different though if the parents are only paying a small percentage.  But even then, they could still take their money back for any small reason.  The couple has to be prepared for that.
    I guess you are right about some parents, but I think a lot of times they are more interested in the other areas. I know if I had done that (made church stipulations) to my daughter it would have caused an irreparable rift in our relationship. Therefore, I chose not to be involved in the ceremony other than paying for musicians that we (H and I) thought were necessary since the church only had a piano. That being said I did choose not to participate in parts of the ceremony where I was uncomfortable. The actual ceremony itself I tolerated. I've also seen on these boards where people have said that parents should have no say in the vows and actual ceremony.
    I think the difference is, it's ok for a couple to not only give back money, but be upset and even stop talking to a parent who tries to use money as a way to manipulate them into the religious ceremony (or bridal party) of a parent's choice. That's when it moves from the parents have opinions and are paying to the parent's are being dicks.

    It's not ok for a couple to be upset with parents because they'll only pay for a wedding if certain people are on the guest list they're paying for, or if they have it at a venue they approve of, or various other things that we generally see pop up here.
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    OliveOilsMomOliveOilsMom member
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    OP - Maybe show your FI this thread so that he can see how OTHERS also think its weird and a bad idea that FFIL has such easy access to your bank accounts.

    If you are having any sort of premarital counseling, I would bring up this issue there.  You are right want to have all of your money away from FFIL's bank. 

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    monkeysipmonkeysip member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer
    JediElizabeth said:
    ILoveBeachMusic said:
    monkeysip said:
    ILoveBeachMusic said:
    I also don't think "those who pays have a say" relates to any religious/ceremony choices. 
    Unfortunately, this is really up to the person paying.  For example, I've seen some parents say "We'll pay for your wedding but it has to be a catholic (or other religious affiliation) wedding".  You can say, "Well, they shouldn't dictate the ceremony", but the reality is that the parents can easily just refuse to pay for the wedding if it doesn't fit their image.  That's when the couple has to decide whether they want to compromise their vision or refuse the money.  

    I agree it's different though if the parents are only paying a small percentage.  But even then, they could still take their money back for any small reason.  The couple has to be prepared for that.
    I guess you are right about some parents, but I think a lot of times they are more interested in the other areas. I know if I had done that (made church stipulations) to my daughter it would have caused an irreparable rift in our relationship. Therefore, I chose not to be involved in the ceremony other than paying for musicians that we (H and I) thought were necessary since the church only had a piano. That being said I did choose not to participate in parts of the ceremony where I was uncomfortable. The actual ceremony itself I tolerated. I've also seen on these boards where people have said that parents should have no say in the vows and actual ceremony.
    I think the difference is, it's ok for a couple to not only give back money, but be upset and even stop talking to a parent who tries to use money as a way to manipulate them into the religious ceremony (or bridal party) of a parent's choice. That's when it moves from the parents have opinions and are paying to the parent's are being dicks.

    It's not ok for a couple to be upset with parents because they'll only pay for a wedding if certain people are on the guest list they're paying for, or if they have it at a venue they approve of, or various other things that we generally see pop up here.
    Totally agree.  

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    charlotte989875charlotte989875 member
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    RosesAreRed13 said:
    Loving these posts so far!  @PrettyGirlLost as of now, there haven't been too many demands or requests beyond the guest list (but we are still early in planning, so that may change).  Our venue capacity is 200 and if you count people who are now single who may have a significant other by the time our wedding rolls around, that brings us to 215.  FI and I decided 190 was our limit when we first set out budget.  FFIL and FMIL are insisting they cannot cut their list any more than they already have, which is now putting me and FI in the position of cutting out friends, which we do not want to do.  Their list consists of immediate and extended family, close friends, and neighbors who they (and FI) have known forever.  Before FI approaches parents regarding the need to cut their list, I wanted to make sure we were not stepping over toes as they gave us that gift. 

    To answer @Ironring - a week after we got engaged, FFIL and FMIL gave us an engagement card with a check in it and simply said "this is to start your savings account for your wedding" and FFIL deposited it for us.  The expectation seemed to be in goes into our wedding savings account and was not to be spent on anything non wedding related, as he had us sign it there and brought it to work the next day to be deposited.  

    I too think it's creepy that he has access, and unfortunately, the position that he is in allows him to access our accounts whenever he wants (whether that's against company protocol, I do not know).  FI has told me in the past he would even warn FI when his account was running low---again, I find this strange but unfortunately didn't put a lot of thought into this 3 years ago : :neutral:   

    ETA: I'm really just generally asking  this question- not necessarily because of the guest list issue.  I wanted to get some opinions regarding this saying. 

    Wait, so your venue capacity is 200 and your list is potentially 215 already? Yah you've got other problems besides banks and in laws. What happens if your single friends are in relationships by that point and need to invite them all, you'll be over your venue limit?
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    SP29SP29 member
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    RosesAreRed13 said:
    Loving these posts so far!  @PrettyGirlLost as of now, there haven't been too many demands or requests beyond the guest list (but we are still early in planning, so that may change).  Our venue capacity is 200 and if you count people who are now single who may have a significant other by the time our wedding rolls around, that brings us to 215.  FI and I decided 190 was our limit when we first set out budget.  FFIL and FMIL are insisting they cannot cut their list any more than they already have, which is now putting me and FI in the position of cutting out friends, which we do not want to do.  Their list consists of immediate and extended family, close friends, and neighbors who they (and FI) have known forever.  Before FI approaches parents regarding the need to cut their list, I wanted to make sure we were not stepping over toes as they gave us that gift. 



    This is not cool- for many reasons. You and your FI need to get on the same page first and then have FI talk to the in-laws and put his foot down.

    If FFIL and FMIL are contributing to the wedding (which it doesn't sound like they are at this point), then you need a new venue and need to accept their guest list (at least to a degree, depending on how much they are contributing). If they are not contributing, they do not get a say here. I do think it is nice to be considerate and include some of their guests, but they do not get to say, "This is our list, make it happen", particularly at the expense of your friends.

    Decide your budget, decide your guest list, find a venue that accommodates that. You are wise to consider all of your single guests potentially having an SO by the wedding date. I would also caution you not to invite to the venue capacity. Usually when the coordinator tells you the room can hold X guests, that is usually a pretty cozy room and often involves tables set up on the dance floor that later must be moved.

    I think the best thing to do with FFIL/FMIL is once you have established your guest list, is to tell them "we have X spots open, please send us a list of the names and addresses of guests you'd like to see invited by Y date"- then you can send those invitations.
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    ernursejernursej member
    First Answer First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its

    PPs have covered a lot.

    I think you are very smart to have your money at another bank, but you should really push your FI on the joint accounts. You are a couple and how you feel matters just as much as how he feels. If you are uncomfortable (as yoru should be) with your FFIL knowing your balances, your FI should be willing to draw boundaries.

    I might also go to the bank (you can always go to a different branch), ask to speak to the Manager and ask about privacy rules. You don't need to name names, but perhaps finding out what is allowed will help your argument.

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