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NWR - Advice on parenting adults

CMGragainCMGragain member
First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
edited July 2016 in Chit Chat
Many of you know that my 34 year old son is severely ADD.  He is an employed computer software engineer and owns his single family three bedroom home.

We visited last month.  I was shocked beyond words.  He is living in filth.  Two years ago he moved into a pristine house with all new carpet and Perego wood flooring.  It appears that he has never vacuumed or cleaned it.  The floors are covered with fast food remnants, bits and pieces of his projects, and - yes- I saw cat poop.  The aroma of cat pee hits you in the face when you walk in the front door, which is off its hinges. 
I said nothing.  I didn't have to.  He knew.  He took us out to a lovely restaurant, and we tried to have a non-judgmental pleasant evening.
DH and I want to help him.  We are considering flying back and tacking the cleanup ourselves.  We would also hire a company to come in to treat the floors and carpet.  Dad wants to organize the house full of projects into the basement by buying metal storage shelves, and labeling boxes.  I would sort his clothes and tackle the kitchen, which currently has a huge piece of plywood on saw horses in it for some project.  After we finished, he would hire a maid to come in weekly and keep things under control.
As it is, daughter refuses to let her children near the house, as she feels it is unsafe for them.  He is invited over to her house for dinner occasionally.

What should we do?  I did not realize that his ADD was affecting his life this much.  He is trapped inside this pile of filth and mess.  He loves his cat, and I wouldn't suggest that he get rid of it, just to give it better care.  I am not trying to control his life, but I want to help him.
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Re: NWR - Advice on parenting adults

  • I'm not sure what to say.  That's a hard one.  You want to help your child, but at the same time, you don't want him to be reliant on you/DH to fix his problems at his age.  But it seems that he's not dealing well on his own.  

    Can you have a chat with him?  Let him take the lead on what he wants hep with?  Everything might see too much/big for him to manage all at once, but by letting him take the lead on solving this, you can support him while still pushing the responsibility onto him in a more manageable way.  Have him make the plan and have him 'pencil' you in for a couple of areas you can help with.  Maybe help him to get the plan organized, but leave him to take the lead on the plan while you support in a smaller way.  

  • Ask him how you can help! And tell him you are concerned because his house isn't safe for him, his pet, or his neices and nephews. I think it's fine for you two to go help, but only if he wants you to. Ask him how he feels about the house and what he is thinking. 
  • I'm sorry you're dealing with this @CMGragain. I think the plan sounds fine, if you include him in it. Tell him your concerned and you want to help, but that you want to help him be sufficient and care for his cat. Maybe by telling him the living situation is harmful to him and the cat, he'll take it more seriosuly? 
  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited July 2016
    I know you said nothing.  But you should have.  Even if he knew, he may have never realized HOW bad it was because his focus is on his projects.  It might need to be pointed out that he can't only focus on projects, but that cleaning and general house hygiene is very important as well.  Then listen to him.  Go by his response to get a plan formulated.  

    I know that you've had your large inheritance, but I wouldn't just throw money at the problem by hiring him a cleaning person and buying him shelves, etc.  He should be majorly responsible for doing all that himself.  He will not learn to fend for himself if you and your H always jump in.  You know that you won't always be around to help him either (not trying to be harsh).  So work to set him up to succeed on his own.  Go ahead and help him, but he should be doing a large percentage of the organizing and cleaning himself.
    If he was a normal child, I would definitely agree, but he is not.  He does not learn the way other people learn.  Would you expect a mentally challenged person to have the same responsibilities?  My son is extremely ADD, the result of birth problems.  We were lucky that it wasn't worse than it is.  He has an extremely I.Q. which helps him to function at work.  That doesn't help with ordinary life skills, though.  He does not have organizing skills.  Lord knows, I tried to teach him.
    Every time I think he is OK, something like this turns up.  He is unable to prioritize cleaning up his house.  I think he sees it as this massive black cloud that is threatening, and maybe if he ignores it, it will go away.  As it is, the mess isolates him.  His close friends know about it.  They are also worried.
    Thank you for your suggestion.  I think if I had confronted him at the time, he would have retreated into silence, and refused to answer my e-mails or phone calls.  He has done this before.
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  • Is he on medication and in therapy for his ADD? You might have said before, but I can't recall.
  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited July 2016
    Is he on medication and in therapy for his ADD? You might have said before, but I can't recall.
    He has been on medication and has had therapy since the age of 7.  He will need it for the rest of his life.  I stayed home as long as I could to try and help him.  He is very articulate as to how the medication helps him.  He usually doesn't take it on he weekends (when he is home), due to the side effects.  I guess that explains a few things around his house.
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  • Does he have a case worker?  The first thing I would do is work with him to work with his insurance to arrange weekly or biweekly visits with a licensed social worker. They would work with him on a rebuilt basis to make sure he's taking his medicine, cleaning and maintaining his home and other basic life skills. 

    Has he ever lived on his own before?  I ask because you have a very traditional view of the home, and the guys I knew with moms like this literally didn't know how to do so basic housekeeping things when they left. FI paid someone to teach him how to do the laundry his first week at college because his mom always did it. Another friend of us had to learn how to dust and had never made a sandwhich for himself before college. 

    So yes, if you're feeling able help him clean. But teach him how and help him create a schedule so the maintenance isn't so overwhelming. 
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  • Yikes. I am so sorry, CMG. That's a really difficult thing to deal with.

    I liked @scribe95's idea of having him help you get the house in order and then creating lists of things for him to do weekly to help him organize his priorities. Maybe even break it down to where he is doing a couple of things per day instead of feeling like he has to do it all at once - i.e. on Mondays, sweep the floors, on Tuesdays clean the bathrooms, etc.


  •  Have him hire a weekly house cleaner? They can come on Wednesdays or some other day when he's at work if he wants his weekends to himself.

    I feel that if you just go and clean up the house, you're enabling the problem a bit. In two years it'll look exactly the same as it does now with two years worth of filth built up because he's not learning how to care for it himself. I understand that's not entirely his fault or something fixable with his ADD.
  • scribe95 said:
    Wow. This is very hard. I do think you need to go and get the house in order. But he needs to participate. Make sure he knows how to clean the litter box, stuff like that. Maybe set up a weekly checklist somewhere where he has to mark where he has done certain basic things - litter, swiffer floors, do dishes, clean bathroom etc. 

    It could be that once he got behind the task of cleaning seemed too much for him. I know that happens to my ADHD daughter sometimes. 

    I would hold off on hiring cleaning people though. Try to establish a new routine for him and see how that goes for maybe six months. 

    Good luck!
    I get this, but I'm messy and God I love my cleaning lady. I feel like if he can afford it, recognizing that he can't do this task and outsourcing is a good routine to get into. 
  • scribe95 said:
    Wow. This is very hard. I do think you need to go and get the house in order. But he needs to participate. Make sure he knows how to clean the litter box, stuff like that. Maybe set up a weekly checklist somewhere where he has to mark where he has done certain basic things - litter, swiffer floors, do dishes, clean bathroom etc. 

    It could be that once he got behind the task of cleaning seemed too much for him. I know that happens to my ADHD daughter sometimes. 

    I would hold off on hiring cleaning people though. Try to establish a new routine for him and see how that goes for maybe six months. 

    Good luck!
    I get this, but I'm messy and God I love my cleaning lady. I feel like if he can afford it, recognizing that he can't do this task and outsourcing is a good routine to get into. 

    This. I have an extremely rewarding and time consuming career. The things I'm good at? Earning a living. Things I'm not good at? Cleaning. I outsource, that's the pay off. There's no reason to spend my time doing something that makes me miserable and I'm terrible at when I have the resources to pay someone to do it for me because I've spent my time doing the things I AM good at (i.e. my job). 
  • As many said, this is a rough situation :\ I would have spoken to him, there could be a bigger issue.
    I've watched Hoarders and there is always a bigger issue at hand.

    Maybe speaking to him, explaining the repercussions of this, might help put into perspective? You mentioned he's in therapy, could you mention the situation to his therapist and see if they can figure out what is going on?

    It's a sad situation and unfortunate that you have to deal with it :( Hopefully something works out though!
  • Sorry this is so long. We had a similar situation with my nephew. He is a brilliant man but because of his ADD he gets distracted often. His parents are not involved and supportive like you are so my DH and I helped out. His parents Can and do contribute financially but only if DH and I kept track of everything. We realized us cleaning would only be temporary. A social worker friend recommended we get a "companion" who checks in and helps our nephew. The companion, KB, has a full time job in the mental health field so he stops in usually twice a week (more if needed) and talks to nephew to see how he is doing. KB hired the cleaning service and keeps in contact with them. KB makes sure there are groceries and other supplies in the house. Everyone's  situation is different so I don't know if this would work for you. 
  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited July 2016
    Part of the problem is that I live 2000 miles away from him.  I have no way of checking up on him unless his sister tells me.  He will lie to me.
    He has the skills necessary to clean.  He does not have the mental organizational ability.  He makes six figures, so hiring a weekly cleaning service is a possibility, but as things are today, no one would agree to do it.
    DH and I plan to skype with him in the near future and talk about his situation.  We are willing to come help him organize and set up a schedule, but we cannot force him to follow it.  I know he takes his meds Monday thru Friday because he is still employed.  He couldn't do his work without them, and his job is very important to him.
    @NavyBlue143 , do you have an unmarried sister?  I would love to have him find a lady who could help him organize his life, but with his house in this state, I doubt anyone would consider him a promising partner.
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  • My local community services bureau has a program that helps people with mental illness learn to clean, declutter and organize.  They work with people to develop a plan and stick to it.  His counselor might know if there's something like that available-or you could try some googling.  

    There's also plenty of cleaning websites out there that could help at least provide the structure-though some are better than others at helping with the motivation part.  A lot of them are geared towards women, but they're adaptable.  My favorites are Fly Lady and (pardon the language) unfuckyourhabitat.com which also has a tumblr that give regular prompts for specific tasks.  Unfyourhabitat is also way more gender neutral and excellent for people with disabilities of all stripes.  
  • First - any discussion like this happens live...  Skype is going to make the situation worse...  He knows it's bad, but there's a disconnect.  He needs to connect "if we get it cleaned up initially I can hire someone to come in and help keep it tidied up" - key word HE - not "you". 

    He may have severe ADD, but there's something else going on to cause the not cleaning up after the pet.  The issue is that he needs to initiate the process or I don't care how many times you go in there and clean, it's never going to stay that way and likely to get 1000x worse.  Locus of control.  He needs to see himself in charge of the problem AND the solution. Also that no one is going to throw away "his stuff" and that he can distinguish between a McD's wrapper and an important document. 

    Tricks to keep it clean once the initial cleaning is done - garbage cans with bags almost everywhere he "parks" - that way if he's sitting on the computer, lounge chair, dining table, bed, etc. it's not "out of his way" to find a garbage can (which the housekeeper can combine to take to the trash).  Same goes for the cat litter, if the "throw away" bucket is right next to it, it's NBD to take the scoop (with some gloves) and toss daily...  Set up his house for the way HE lives/thinks, not how a "normal" person or yourself might! 

  • I vote that you need to have an in person talk with him about your concerns and see what he is concerned about. See what he would like to do about it. You can offer up help but I think that sometimes outside help is better.

    I've worked with people that have ADD before and checklists are often well received, especially if the person helps to make the checklist themselves.

    Keep in mind that you might only make improvements on garbage on the floor/generally cleaning of the pets area and other health related areas but clutter may never be something that he prioritizes.

    I'll hope that you get some resolution with this. I can only imagine how you must be feeling.

  • About the "in person talk".  I live 2000 miles away.  It is a very big deal for me to get on a plane and fly to Baltimore.
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  • CMGragain said:
    About the "in person talk".  I live 2000 miles away.  It is a very big deal for me to get on a plane and fly to Baltimore.
    Not trying to sound like a bitch, but you travel the world frequently. I'd like to understand why it's a big deal to head to Baltimore. I know your medical issues can complicate things, but didn't you just get back from Spain? So, it's not bad to the point that you are unable to fly. 


     







  • CMGragain said:
    About the "in person talk".  I live 2000 miles away.  It is a very big deal for me to get on a plane and fly to Baltimore.
    I realize this - the issue is how this is manifesting is such that Skype is going to come across as a parent lecture circuit (i.e. make it even worse!) instead of "Hey I'm here, how about I help you get some of the wrappers cleaned up!  You know, once we've got this done how about we call up and interview some housekeepers since you're so busy with work, a housekeeper is a good investment for you! <while using the drill to fix the door>"  ... 
  • CMGragain said:
    About the "in person talk".  I live 2000 miles away.  It is a very big deal for me to get on a plane and fly to Baltimore.

    I'm pretty sure that you travel frequently (including trips that require flying). I think this should be prioritized as a big deal and equaling getting on a plane.

    Apologies for sounding bitchy.

  • CMGragainCMGragain member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited July 2016
    Yes, we travel about once a year.  This year it was twice, and we included a visit to the kids with our last trip.  We were just there in late June.  We saw our son on the last day we were in the Baltimore area.  I think he was avoiding us because of the house condition.

    My mother used to criticize my house, my family, my weight, my clothing.  The last time she visited, she had a screeching fit about the clutter in my house.  Both my kids were there to greet Grandma, and they witnessed it.   I don't want to be like her.  (Her own house left a lot to be desired when it came to cleaning, and she had once a week cleaning help.)
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  • CMGragain said:
    About the "in person talk".  I live 2000 miles away.  It is a very big deal for me to get on a plane and fly to Baltimore.
    Not trying to sound rude towards your son, but what are his social skills like? Do you think he would be more receptive in person or on Skype? I have two major adhd friends. One doesn't like to be around people as conversations are hard for her. Especially important ones (but she can text or talk over the phone fine about that stuff.  the other is fine in person, but has a hard time staying focused on one conversation. 

    personally, I hate confrontation. Whenever my parents had to talk with me about serious things, they would take me out to dinner and talk there. I hated it. I would rather have preferred it done over the phone or even skype (if they used it) 

    you know  your son well enough to have an idea of how skyping with him will be recieved. 

    since Skype is a face to face program, I think it would still come across in a non-judgemental way since he can see your faces and not just your voice
  • I don't think visiting in person is mandatory, and it might be unhelpful and make him feel bullied. It might be necessary at some point but I don't see any harm in starting the conversation on Skype. 
  • My son can communicate more easily with me than with DH.  DH tends to be confrontational.
    Thank you all for your suggestions.  I will think about this for a while.
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  • Good luck, CMGr! I really hope you can find a way to help him!
    What did you think would happen if you walked up to a group of internet strangers and told them to get shoehorned by their lady doc?~StageManager14
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