Going out of my mind planning this wedding

Zeliatheb3 · August 2016

This is going to sound stupid and whiny, but I need to write it out to people who aren't involved and can't get offended about the situation.

My FI and I have had a long engagement (2+ years) while we were saving up money for our wedding, as we knew we would have to pay for it ourselves. FIML decided to host our engagement party a few months after our engagement, but before we had picked out a venue. Despite the timing, we said that we were going to look at smaller venues, probably no more than 90-100 people invited to the wedding. Obviously, FIML invites 200 people to the engagement party she's hosting. Only 100 people came to the party, so she said it was no big deal (and I'm sitting there, thinking about how everyone who comes to the engagement party has to be invited to the wedding and how much I have already lost control of my own wedding).

We pick our venue, and it can do max like 110 people, because we wanted, saved, and budgeted for a small wedding and none of our parents can pay to upgrade to a larger venue.

I send FIML the list for the Save the Dates so she can proof read her friends' names for typos and get me the last addresses I needed. And of course I had to cut people out that she invited to the engagement party (people my FI and I have frankly never met or heard of before). And she's all "Oh so-and-so isn't on here. They were invited to the engagement party! You have to invite them!" I remind her of the size constraints of our venue and I already have 120 people on the list. "Oh they'll never come. You just have to invite them!"

So now my list is 130 people. Just for the Save the Dates. And you can't say no to this woman. Though, in hindsight, I really ought to have.

Now we get to mailing out the actual invites. FIML and FIFL have friends that will be slighted if we don't invited them. So we have to. Even though they won't come. Now we're at 140. Now FIML has friends she has known forever and are practically family and she can't imagine not inviting them. Even though they won't come. 155 people. I tell her absolutely no more. I have to cut a few friends out and cut down the +1's I'm allowing to make room (basically to longstanding relationships, the WP, engaged couples or married people. Single people need to be single. Please, dear God, they have to be single). I send out the invites.

FIML comes back to me, telling me she was talking to some friends and says they never got their invites. I told her they were not invited. She says they just have to be there. I remind her there is no room. They are not invited. She's all, "Why can't they come." And "Why doesn't anyone have any +1's. It's not right. It's not good etiquette."

FMIL finds out that some of her friends can't come. She starts inviting other people and saying to me "Oh, I heard so-and-so can't come. So I invited such-and-such. That's okay, right?" I tell her, such-and such can come, but no more. I do not have room as it is. I need as many Regrets as I can get. Anyone else she verbally invites will not be allowed to come.

FMIL loses it. Telling me she only has (lists like 20 personal friends, in addition to her huge family) coming. No one's going to be there. She can't not have these friends there. Why am I being like this?

Meanwhile, I'm getting RSVP's back, and guess who's coming? If you guessed all the people we just had to invite that would never come, you were right. There's a lot of out of state friends and family I have that I doubt can make it. So I'm sure it will work out...

But let this be a lesson and letting other people control your guest list. Just say no and handle the meltdown then and there. Because right now I'm alternating between hating myself for letting things get so out of hand and wanting to drink a bottle of wine, cry in a corner and pretend I'm not getting married.

If this gets posted to a place FIML can read, this will also be a lesson in venting to others. Please don't get me wrong, she's a sweetheart. and really lovely..so long as you're not attempting to plan a party and maintain any kind of control or voicing a complaint.

theycallmelinz · August 2016

You seriously may need to consider looking into a larger venue. What are you going to do if you get 100% RSVPs? I had several friends fly from California, Texas, and Washington state to come to my wedding in Alabama. I know this is stressful but it's only going to get worse if you can't accommodate all of the people at your wedding.

I do agree you HAVE to say no. I learned this the hard way with my in-laws too, and unfortunately we did have to spend a lot of extra money accommodating people that "we absolutely must invite!"

ETA: words

[Deleted User] · August 2016

Knottie193168 said:

This is going to sound stupid and whiny, but I need to write it out to people who aren't involved and can't get offended about the situation.
My FI and I have had a long engagement (2+ years) while we were saving up money for our wedding, as we knew we would have to pay for it ourselves. FIML decided to host our engagement party a few months after our engagement, but before we had picked out a venue. Despite the timing, we said that we were going to look at smaller venues, probably no more than 90-100 people invited to the wedding. Obviously, FIML invites 200 people to the engagement party she's hosting. Only 100 people came to the party, so she said it was no big deal (and I'm sitting there, thinking about how everyone who comes to the engagement party has to be invited to the wedding and how much I have already lost control of my own wedding).
We pick our venue, and it can do max like 110 people, because we wanted, saved, and budgeted for a small wedding and none of our parents can pay to upgrade to a larger venue.
I send FIML the list for the Save the Dates so she can proof read her friends' names for typos and get me the last addresses I needed. And of course I had to cut people out that she invited to the engagement party (people my FI and I have frankly never met or heard of before). And she's all "Oh so-and-so isn't on here. They were invited to the engagement party! You have to invite them!" I remind her of the size constraints of our venue and I already have 120 people on the list. "Oh they'll never come. You just have to invite them!"
So now my list is 130 people. Just for the Save the Dates. And you can't say no to this woman. Though, in hindsight, I really ought to have.
Now we get to mailing out the actual invites. FIML and FIFL have friends that will be slighted if we don't invited them. So we have to. Even though they won't come. Now we're at 140. Now FIML has friends she has known forever and are practically family and she can't imagine not inviting them. Even though they won't come. 155 people. I tell her absolutely no more. I have to cut a few friends out and cut down the +1's I'm allowing to make room (basically to longstanding relationships, the WP, engaged couples or married people. Single people need to be single. Please, dear God, they have to be single). I send out the invites.
FIML comes back to me, telling me she was talking to some friends and says they never got their invites. I told her they were not invited. She says they just have to be there. I remind her there is no room. They are not invited. She's all, "Why can't they come." And "Why doesn't anyone have any +1's. It's not right. It's not good etiquette."
FMIL finds out that some of her friends can't come. She starts inviting other people and saying to me "Oh, I heard so-and-so can't come. So I invited such-and-such. That's okay, right?" I tell her, such-and such can come, but no more. I do not have room as it is. I need as many Regrets as I can get. Anyone else she verbally invites will not be allowed to come.
FMIL loses it. Telling me she only has (lists like 20 personal friends, in addition to her huge family) coming. No one's going to be there. She can't not have these friends there. Why am I being like this?
Meanwhile, I'm getting RSVP's back, and guess who's coming? If you guessed all the people we just had to invite that would never come, you were right. There's a lot of out of state friends and family I have that I doubt can make it. So I'm sure it will work out...
But let this be a lesson and letting other people control your guest list. Just say no and handle the meltdown then and there. Because right now I'm alternating between hating myself for letting things get so out of hand and wanting to drink a bottle of wine, cry in a corner and pretend I'm not getting married.
If this gets posted to a place FIML can read, this will also be a lesson in venting to others. Please don't get me wrong, she's a sweetheart. and really lovely..so long as you're not attempting to plan a party and maintain any kind of control or voicing a complaint.

So I know this was meant to be a rant but I'm seriously worried. Is your venues 110 person limit a hard limit? As in a fire code limit? Because if people are responding back yes when you were expecting no you could be in serious trouble. You need to figure out what you are going to do if you are over the venue limit NOW. This isn't something you can just drink some wine and hope everything is going to work out.

Your FI should have stood up to her long ago but it's too late for that now. Now you need to figure out a plan because I'm worried you are in serious trouble. Is there outdoor space you can utilize instead? If so, start looking for a tent. Or maybe that's the limit for a sit down dinner but it can fit more people with stand up cocktail style instead? Otherwise, honestly, I would start looking for a different last minute venue. ASAP.

kvruns · August 2016

Image: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1f/Destiny's_Child_%E2%80%93_No,_No,_No.jpg

This song started running through my head as I read this.

and also:

climbingsingle · August 2016

Holy shit. Is your venue's max 110? Did you include yourselves and vendors into this count???

ETA: This isn't just a small problem to whine about. How soon is your wedding? You need to find a new venue.

LondonLisa · August 2016

I am truly amazed that you can even plan a wedding so soon after both of you had your spines surgically removed.

Seriously, are you saying that only the first 110 people who show up at your wedding get a seat?

I am not surprised you are stressed. This is a mess.

Your only options now are:

1.) New venue

2.) Cancel this wedding and replan for a later date with a much smaller guest list

3.) Elope.

You are on a collision course.

DrillSergeantCat · August 2016

Your FI needs to be the one dealing with his mother. Blood talks to blood. Also, those who pay have a say and since she isn't paying for your wedding, you should have told her from the beginning that you can't accommodate all of her must haves on your budget. Since it's too late for that now, have your wine tonight, but get focused on finding a way to fit all of these people you've allowed her to add to the guest list.

ShesSoCold · August 2016

So, since you and your FI are unable to say no, what is your plan when you're over-capacity for your venue and can't afford the bill?

OliveOilsMom · August 2016

I wish you came to us when it was time to send out STDs. You are in serious trouble right now. Your FMIL is OUT OF CONTROL. You should have told her no and stuck to it so long ago, now she knows she can just roll over you. You are going to have many continued problems with FMIL, long after the wedding is done. Imagine what could happen if you have kids.

Your 110 may also have to include the DJ and photographers as well.

As far as the engagement party, yes you are right that everyone invited to a pre-wedding party must also be invited to the wedding, BUT when one person single handedly invites 200 people when you told her you were planning a much smaller wedding, the etiquette faux pas is hers to endure. "FMIL, you knew that we would not host a large wedding and I'm sorry you invited so many people to attend the engagement party. But there is no way all of those people will be invited, end of story." And that should come from your FI. He should be dealing with her. Blood handles blood.

At this point, you and your FI need to go see FMIL. You need to tell her all of the people she verbally invited are no longer invited. SHE needs to go tell them she was previously mistaken. Tell her that they will be escorted from the premises and it will make HER look bad when they are turned away at the reception. They will have no seat or no meal. Have your venue at the reception door asking for names and providing the table assignments when they give their name.

Keep FMIL in the dark from here on out. If she brings up the wedding, ignore and change the subject. If she keeping trying to bring it up tell her "FMIL, you have stepped over some major boundaries while we have been planning this wedding that we are paying for. We are now majorly over capacity and trying to fix this mistake. Every time the wedding comes up, you want to add more people to the invite list when we are already over our capacity of 110. So we will no longer discuss the wedding because we cannot tolerate how you have taken advantage of us."

Now contact your venue ASAP and see what can be done.

Zeliatheb3 · August 2016

It's more about room for tables and chairs. Vendors, FI and I don't count for the count. The venue said we can stretch to 130, but it might feel a little cramped. I've gotten enough Regrets now that we'll be under 130.

The part that broke me is when she started "trading" invites without consulting me and threw a fit when I said that was unacceptable and argued with FI when he said that it was absolutely unacceptable and cannot ever happen again.

theycallmelinz · August 2016

Knottie193168 said:

It's more about room for tables and chairs. Vendors, FI and I don't count for the count. The venue said we can stretch to 130, but it might feel a little cramped. I've gotten enough Regrets now that we'll be under 130.
The part that broke me is when she started "trading" invites without consulting me and threw a fit when I said that was unacceptable and argued with FI when he said that it was absolutely unacceptable and cannot ever happen again.

I'm glad to hear he's stepping up to her. I would have been seriously worried if he wasn't. I'm also glad that you are under 130 but seriously. You and FI need to have a serious talk with FMIL and do all the things @OliveOilsMom said if she keeps inviting people by word of mouth.

My MIL did the same thing. She gave me a shower and invited EVERYONE from their church, 50+ people I had never even met, without me knowing about it before hand. She was the one who looked dumb when they asked about wedding invitations.

ILoveBeachMusic · August 2016

theycallmelinz said:

Knottie193168 said:

It's more about room for tables and chairs. Vendors, FI and I don't count for the count. The venue said we can stretch to 130, but it might feel a little cramped. I've gotten enough Regrets now that we'll be under 130.
The part that broke me is when she started "trading" invites without consulting me and threw a fit when I said that was unacceptable and argued with FI when he said that it was absolutely unacceptable and cannot ever happen again.

I'm glad to hear he's stepping up to her. I would have been seriously worried if he wasn't. I'm also glad that you are under 130 but seriously. You and FI need to have a serious talk with FMIL and do all the things @OliveOilsMom said if she keeps inviting people by word of mouth.

My MIL did the same thing. She gave me a shower and invited EVERYONE from their church, 50+ people I had never even met, without me knowing about it before hand. She was the one who looked dumb when they asked about wedding invitations.

Truth!

[Deleted User] · August 2016

Knottie193168 said:

It's more about room for tables and chairs. Vendors, FI and I don't count for the count. The venue said we can stretch to 130, but it might feel a little cramped. I've gotten enough Regrets now that we'll be under 130.
The part that broke me is when she started "trading" invites without consulting me and threw a fit when I said that was unacceptable and argued with FI when he said that it was absolutely unacceptable and cannot ever happen again.

I'm glad for your sake that at least you don't have to look for another venue. But agree with all of the above. Your FMIL must uninvite everyone who got a verbal invitation. No exceptions. The only people allowed at the event will be the ones you have in your master list and sent invitations too.

ei34 · August 2016

Okay..glad there won't be any fire code issues. But my god your FMIL is completely out of control!! It's super important that your FI remains on your side, glad he has so far.
And best of luck to you guys in the future (thinking about housewarming parties, 1st birthdays of possible children...etc...your FMIL is a pisser!)

Jen4948 · August 2016

Something else you're going to have to do, unfortunately, is have security turn away anyone your FMIL verbally invites who is not on your actual guest list but shows up anyway.

I think your FI should tell your FMIL that this is going to happen to anyone she verbally invited and doesn't tell that they're not actually invited to nor welcome at the wedding.

Zeliatheb3 · August 2016

My problem in saying no to her thus far is our families have been friends for over 20 years. I've been like family to them for 10+ years.

So it's not that she just now knows she can do whatever she wants, it's that she's always been able to do whatever she wants for as long as I've known her. No one has ever told her "No" without her freaking out. So I know how every future event will go. I knew how planning this wedding would go. I do not envy FSIL. But I love FI and want to have a ceremony and reception with friends and family to celebrate. So eloping was out of the question (in addition to the feud it would have undoubtedly started also making eloping the long-term less desirable decision)

And I've tried cutting FMIL out of discussions, but I frankly don't enjoy being screamed at by FMIL in person when she finds out. Then the next day FFIL calls FI and lectures him about how rude, thoughtless, and inconsiderate we are. That and they're hosting the Rehearsal dinner...and the bridal shower. (Because my family is broke and his family is upper-middle class)

The invite list isn't the worst part to me. Imagine how she was about mismatched bridesmaids gowns. Mismatched bridesmaid shoes (all in the same color, mind you). My heels making me all of 1/2 inch taller than FI. Choosing the food for the venue. Making my personal friends who she's never met bridesmaids. Every time she looks at the list and sees my extended family and she's all like "Who are these people? I've never heard of them before." But if I don't invite her third cousin? Wanting to do silk flowers for the centerpieces. Wanting to play a niche song for our wedding dance. Wanting to only have a photographer for the ceremony and half the reception. Not wanting a limo. You get the idea.

FI always has my back. But we have to pick and choose our arguments. And nothing has been decided by us without "Oh I wish you had asked me what I thought" or "Why on earth would you do that that way?" or something similar.

thisismynickname2 · August 2016

Oh goodness gracious. Sending a huge internet hug your way.

OliveOilsMom · August 2016

Knottie193168 said:

My problem in saying no to her thus far is our families have been friends for over 20 years. I've been like family to them for 10+ years.
So it's not that she just now knows she can do whatever she wants, it's that she's always been able to do whatever she wants for as long as I've known her. No one has ever told her "No" without her freaking out. So I know how every future event will go. I knew how planning this wedding would go. I do not envy FSIL. But I love FI and want to have a ceremony and reception with friends and family to celebrate. So eloping was out of the question (in addition to the feud it would have undoubtedly started also making eloping the long-term less desirable decision)
And I've tried cutting FMIL out of discussions, but I frankly don't enjoy being screamed at by FMIL in person when she finds out. Then the next day FFIL calls FI and lectures him about how rude, thoughtless, and inconsiderate we are. That and they're hosting the Rehearsal dinner...and the bridal shower. (Because my family is broke and his family is upper-middle class)
The invite list isn't the worst part to me. Imagine how she was about mismatched bridesmaids gowns. Mismatched bridesmaid shoes (all in the same color, mind you). My heels making me all of 1/2 inch taller than FI. Choosing the food for the venue. Making my personal friends who she's never met bridesmaids. Every time she looks at the list and sees my extended family and she's all like "Who are these people? I've never heard of them before." But if I don't invite her third cousin? Wanting to do silk flowers for the centerpieces. Wanting to play a niche song for our wedding dance. Wanting to only have a photographer for the ceremony and half the reception. Not wanting a limo. You get the idea.
FI always has my back. But we have to pick and choose our arguments. And nothing has been decided by us without "Oh I wish you had asked me what I thought" or "Why on earth would you do that that way?" or something similar.

It's a good thing that FI always has your back. But I think you need to start setting boundaries and keep them with FMIL. She ever calls you or FI screaming, simply say in a calm voice "FMIL (Mom), I'm sorry your hurt, but I can't talk to you like this. We can discuss this later when you have calmed down. Good bye." Then walk away, hang up the phone, etc. If you allow her to engage with you in that way, she will never stop.

When FFIL calls, FI should say to him "Dad, I'm sorry but I don't have time for a lecture right now. I already know everything you are going to say, we are rude, thoughtless and inconsiderate to mom's feelings. But we are paying for everything for the wedding reception, so we don't need to discuss everything with mom. I'm sorry she is upset, but we have done nothing wrong. I will talk to you later. Bye."

FFIL probably calls because its the only way FMIL will stop bothering him about the perceived slight. There is no need for FMIL to see anything related to the wedding that you are paying for. If she mentions anything, you can say "That's an interesting idea. Thanks." Or if she brings up the guest list, I'd say "Well there are so many people on it already for you and I don't know half of them. These particular guests are MY relatives, which is why you haven't heard of them before. There are two sides to the guest lists, you know, FI's and mine."

Lastly, when she says something about why you would do something a certain way for your wedding a simple, "Because we are paying and that is how we wanted it done." will suffice.

You cannot change FMIL's behavior, but you can change your reactions to her. Maybe eventually when she realizes she cannot get her way all of the time, she will stop bothering you two. But that day may also never come. There is a bride posting on Wedding Woes recently who has been setting boundaries, along with her FI, on FMIL and FSIL. FMIL and FSIL are still acting out, but that poster and her FI are prepared to take the boundaries for the long term and are waiting for the wave to flatten out. The same will/can happen for you. You just need to set your boundaries and stick to them.

kimmiinthemitten · August 2016

Girl, I don't care how long you've known her. You and your FI need to spine up and put your feet down before she's in the delivery room, catching the baby and naming it without your input.

Zeliatheb3 · August 2016

And being less than "OMG! That is the best idea I have ever heard in my life!" at any of her suggestions is also a trigger for the screaming and phone calls. I have social anxiety and am introverted. It's hard to fake being super exited at ideas I hate/don't care for all the time.

Thankfully, whenever I talk to my parents they're all "Whatever you want. Sounds good. Let's do that." I could have said I wanted to do a barefoot horror-themed goth steampunk wedding and they'd have said, "Chill. Let's roll with that." (M said that was still an option when I was freaking out over FMIL's behavior)

I'm definitely not allowing any verbal invites (aside from such-and-such because she's a professional singer who has volunteered to sing at the ceremony because she's "invited" and FMIL's friend. So I can roll with that...and only that). Anyone else isn't going to have a seat.

Thanks for listening. It's been driving me insane and I needed to complain some before the shower this weekend.

climbingsingle · August 2016

Stop talking about the wedding with her. If she brings it up, change the subject.

LD1970 · August 2016

Oh. Hell. No.

My own mother is as overbearing and loud as they come, and I've known her for 46 years, not 20-something. She's not "like my own family," she IS my own family. And she didn't get to call the shots for my wedding or actually ANY aspect of my life since I moved out of my parents' house.

And if she screamed at me? Oh. HELL. NO.

Adults do not get screamed at unless they permit it. STOP PERMITTING IT. Are you kidding me?! You walk away, you hang up the phone, you don't answer the phone, you leave their house, you tell them to leave your house. You do NOT just take it.

artbyallie · August 2016

Knottie193168 said:

And being less than "OMG! That is the best idea I have ever heard in my life!" at any of her suggestions is also a trigger for the screaming and phone calls. I have social anxiety and am introverted. It's hard to fake being super exited at ideas I hate/don't care for all the time.
Thankfully, whenever I talk to my parents they're all "Whatever you want. Sounds good. Let's do that." I could have said I wanted to do a barefoot horror-themed goth steampunk wedding and they'd have said, "Chill. Let's roll with that." (M said that was still an option when I was freaking out over FMIL's behavior)
I'm definitely not allowing any verbal invites (aside from such-and-such because she's a professional singer who has volunteered to sing at the ceremony because she's "invited" and FMIL's friend. So I can roll with that...and only that). Anyone else isn't going to have a seat.
Thanks for listening. It's been driving me insane and I needed to complain some before the shower this weekend.

This is flat-out abusive behavior. Will your FI have a word with her and let her know (and be willing to follow through) that the two of you will cut off communication with her if/when this ever happens again? Screaming at someone is just not an acceptable way to respond to anybody, much less family, for a grown-ass adult!

As an aside, I don't mean to cause more stress, but I do feel this needs addressing to clarify. When you say you have cut +1s to "basically to longstanding relationships, the WP, engaged couples or married people," are you still inviting all SOs regardless of how 'longstanding' the relationship? Because SOs are not +1s and cannot be cut under any circumstances. While you are certainly not required to offer a +1 to the truly single, someone who considers themselves in a relationship is not single.

Jen4948 · August 2016

One other thing: If you haven't already done so, don't let your FMIL have any copies of invitations until after the wedding. Otherwise she might copy or scan them and give them to people not on your guest list.

Zeliatheb3 · August 2016

artbyallie said:

As an aside, I don't mean to cause more stress, but I do feel this needs addressing to clarify. When you say you have cut +1s to "basically to longstanding relationships, the WP, engaged couples or married people," are you still inviting all SOs regardless of how 'longstanding' the relationship? Because SOs are not +1s and cannot be cut under any circumstances. While you are certainly not required to offer a +1 to the truly single, someone who considers themselves in a relationship is not single.

Relationships they had made FI or I aware of prior to the invites being sent. But most of our friends are truly single.

SP29 · August 2016

Oh girl!

I can understand the stress you are going through. Vent away all you like.

I'm glad your FI has your back. I do think you both need to work on setting boundaries and sticking up for yourselves NOW... think about the crap that is going to go down if/when you have children. Yeesh!

TheMostHappy15 · August 2016

OP, I know you are venting so some of this might be exaggerated but all this is a huge red flag. I literally don't know how you're planning to have this person in your life for the foreseeable future... anyone who repeatedly screams at me would be cut out of my life so fast- that's straight-up abuse.

I think you really need to consider what's at stake here. Are you going to live the rest of your life being dominated and abused by your FMIL? It sounds like a recipe for misery, and it seems like whatever amount of standing up to her or having each other's back you and your FI are doing so far, it's not working.

Do you want kids? Are you going to let her dictate how you raise them? Are you going to let her scream at you in front of them when she doesn't agree with your parenting, and model that as how adults interact? Are you going to let her scream at them when they don't do what she thinks they should? Are you going to let her poison their connections with the other people in your life because she clearly seems to have a problem with you being close to anyone she isn't personally close with?

Honestly if you and your FI are content to kind of just go along to get along and put up with this nonsense for your whole lives, that's fine- I think it's sad, but maybe it's manageable. But if you have any thought of bringing a child into the picture you need to drastically overhaul your relationship with your FMIL starting today.

Going out of my mind planning this wedding

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