Addressing invitation to widow who is uncle's date

Knottie1439252711 · September 2016

Hi everyone! Uncle Jim is bringing his girlfriend, who is a widow, to our wedding. I asked him for her full name and whether she goes by Mrs. or Ms., and he gave me her name but not her preference on Mrs. vs Ms. I've never met her and don't have any way to contact her directly. Since I don't know her preference, I believe the traditional form would be to address her as Mrs., however that seems a bit weird given that she's been dating Uncle Jim for over a year now. What would be the proper invite ettiquette in this case? Thank you in advance for your advice!

Jen4948 · September 2016

I would use Ms. FirstName LastName.

Or you can ask Uncle Jim to ask his girlfriend what her title preference is.

CMGragain · September 2016

Formal mail would be sent to the lady's title, Mrs. John Jones, unless she had told you that she prefers to be Ms. Jane Jones. You call her either Mrs. Jones, or Jane. Older women sometimes do not like the "Ms." title.
A widow uses her late husbands name as a mark of respect. If she remarries, she uses a different name. This has nothing to do with her current social life.

SP29 · September 2016

CMGragain said:

Formal mail would be sent to the lady's title, Mrs. John Jones, unless she had told you that she prefers to be Ms. Jane Jones. You call her either Mrs. Jones, or Jane. Older women sometimes do not like the "Ms." title.
A widow uses her late husbands name as a mark of respect. If she remarries, she uses a different name. This has nothing to do with her current social life.

Sorry- hijacking here. What is the correct title for a divorced woman who has kept her ex-husband's last name?

ILoveBeachMusic · September 2016

Mrs. Herfirstname Lastname, I believe.

ernursej · September 2016

CMGragain said:

Formal mail would be sent to the lady's title, Mrs. John Jones, unless she had told you that she prefers to be Ms. Jane Jones. You call her either Mrs. Jones, or Jane. Older women sometimes do not like the "Ms." title.
A widow uses her late husbands name as a mark of respect. If she remarries, she uses a different name. This has nothing to do with her current social life.

Sorry, but the three widows I know never go by their husband's first name. It is either Mrs. Jane Doe (married last name) or Ms. Margaret Deer (married last name) for the other two. All three women are in their 60-70's.

OP - Names are such a personal preference. I would go back to your Uncle and ask specifically about Mrs. vs. Ms. and if she uses husband's first name in place of her first name on formal correspondence.

ILoveBeachMusic · September 2016

ernursej said:

CMGragain said:

Formal mail would be sent to the lady's title, Mrs. John Jones, unless she had told you that she prefers to be Ms. Jane Jones. You call her either Mrs. Jones, or Jane. Older women sometimes do not like the "Ms." title.
A widow uses her late husbands name as a mark of respect. If she remarries, she uses a different name. This has nothing to do with her current social life.

Sorry, but the three widows I know never go by their husband's first name. It is either Mrs. Jane Doe (married last name) or Ms. Margaret Deer (married last name) for the other two. All three women are in their 60-70's.
OP - Names are such a personal preference. I would go back to your Uncle and ask specifically about Mrs. vs. Ms. and if she uses husband's first name in place of her first name on formal correspondence.

That's what CMG said - unless they prefer something else the traditional way is the late husband's name. I always err on the side of tradition until told (or I notice) otherwise.

CMGragain · September 2016

I addressed one of daughter's invitations to a widow, a long time friend, who was a strong feminist. Since I knew her views, I addressed it as "Ms. Jane Doe". She returned the RSVP. with it corrected to "Mrs. John Doe". I apologized to her at the wedding.

Never assume you know.

ernursej · September 2016

CMGragain said:

I addressed one of daughter's invitations to a widow, a long time friend, who was a strong feminist. Since I knew her views, I addressed it as "Ms. Jane Doe". She returned the RSVP. with it corrected to "Mrs. John Doe". I apologized to her at the wedding.

Never assume you know.

Which is why I always ask. I find name etiquette to often be 'wrong'. I never assume someone prefers x or y. None of my invitations were addressed to Mr. and Mrs. as everyone in my social circles prefers using the less formal version. I also asked the new Dr. if she would like that used and she rolled her eyes and said only if I must. Hers was just addressed to her first name.

photokitty · September 2016

According to Cranes, the authority on addressing correspondence correctly...

Widow
A widow continues to use her husband’s name on her calling cards. If her son is a junior who has dropped the “Jr.” from his name, she adds the suffix “senior” to distinguish herself from her daughter-in-law. “Senior” may be spelled out with a lower case “s” or abbreviated with a capital “S”.

Mrs. Harrison Raiford Booth
Mrs. Harrison Raiford Booth, senior
Mrs. Harrison Raiford Booth, Sr.

Divorced Women
A divorced woman uses her first name, maiden name and married name, preceded by “Mrs.” She may also use her first, maiden and married names without a title.

Mrs. Lydia Renner Booth
Lydia Renner Booth

A divorced woman who resumed the use of her maiden name uses her first name, middle name and last name, without a title.

Lydia Anne Renner

STARMOON44 · September 2016

Oh to hell with Cranes. Divorced women get no courtesy title at all if they have resumed using their maiden names? Unacceptable.

photokitty · September 2016

STARMOON44 said:

Oh to hell with Cranes. Divorced women get no courtesy title at all if they have resumed using their maiden names? Unacceptable.

As a woman who was divorced, I agree. But I also don't get offended if someone goes with traditional title usage. I'd be in favor of losing titles all together, but until that happens, this is what is the current standard.

STARMOON44 · September 2016

photokitty said:

STARMOON44 said:

Oh to hell with Cranes. Divorced women get no courtesy title at all if they have resumed using their maiden names? Unacceptable.

As a woman who was divorced, I agree. But I also don't get offended if someone goes with traditional title usage. I'd be in favor of losing titles all together, but until that happens, this is what is the current standard.

I don't think this is standard or acceptable. Sure, it might be in Cranes, but that doesn't make it a standard usage. I'd certainly use Ms. for a divorced woman using her maiden same, exactly the same as I would for any adult woman using her maiden name.

OurWildKingdom · September 2016

STARMOON44 said:

photokitty said:

STARMOON44 said:

Oh to hell with Cranes. Divorced women get no courtesy title at all if they have resumed using their maiden names? Unacceptable.

As a woman who was divorced, I agree. But I also don't get offended if someone goes with traditional title usage. I'd be in favor of losing titles all together, but until that happens, this is what is the current standard.

I don't think this is standard or acceptable. Sure, it might be in Cranes, but that doesn't make it a standard usage. I'd certainly use Ms. for a divorced woman using her maiden same, exactly the same as I would for any adult woman using her maiden name.

Ditto. In fact, I use Ms. for divorced women even if they kept their married name. It may not be standard, but IMHO it's more appropriate than using Mrs.

MairePoppy · September 2016

STARMOON44 said:

photokitty said:

STARMOON44 said:

Oh to hell with Cranes. Divorced women get no courtesy title at all if they have resumed using their maiden names? Unacceptable.

As a woman who was divorced, I agree. But I also don't get offended if someone goes with traditional title usage. I'd be in favor of losing titles all together, but until that happens, this is what is the current standard.

I don't think this is standard or acceptable. Sure, it might be in Cranes, but that doesn't make it a standard usage. I'd certainly use Ms. for a divorced woman using her maiden same, exactly the same as I would for any adult woman using her maiden name.

I'm also in favor of losing titles, unless they are professional titles. Why should a woman indicate her marital status with a meaningless title, while a man's title doesn't?

I don't use my H's first name, as in Mrs. James Poppy. He doesn't call himself Mr. Maire Poppy. Neither of us feel disrespected. If he dies before me, I will not be changing how I prefer to be addressed. I think it's insulting to address me by my husband's name. It's really important to pay attention to the titles/names people use when they RSVP.

Jen4948 · September 2016

MairePoppy said:

STARMOON44 said:

photokitty said:

STARMOON44 said:

Oh to hell with Cranes. Divorced women get no courtesy title at all if they have resumed using their maiden names? Unacceptable.

As a woman who was divorced, I agree. But I also don't get offended if someone goes with traditional title usage. I'd be in favor of losing titles all together, but until that happens, this is what is the current standard.

I don't think this is standard or acceptable. Sure, it might be in Cranes, but that doesn't make it a standard usage. I'd certainly use Ms. for a divorced woman using her maiden same, exactly the same as I would for any adult woman using her maiden name.

I'm also in favor of losing titles, unless they are professional titles. Why should a woman indicate her marital status with a meaningless title, while a man's title doesn't?

I don't use my H's first name, as in Mrs. James Poppy. He doesn't call himself Mr. Maire Poppy. Neither of us feel disrespected. If he dies before me, I will not be changing how I prefer to be addressed. I think it's insulting to address me by my husband's name. It's really important to pay attention to the titles/names people use when they RSVP.

I feel the same.

Ultimately, I'd rather address people as they choose, even if Cranes or some other source thinks it's not "standard" or "traditional."

CMGragain · September 2016

Etiquette says that you address people as they choose, within reason. If you do not know that someone has a different preference, it is a good idea to use the standard etiquette rules, as in Crane's. I dislike addressing mail to anyone without a title.
If you prefer to be addressed differently than standard etiquette, then you should gently correct anyone when you see them.

OurWildKingdom · September 2016

ernursej said:

CMGragain said:

I addressed one of daughter's invitations to a widow, a long time friend, who was a strong feminist. Since I knew her views, I addressed it as "Ms. Jane Doe". She returned the RSVP. with it corrected to "Mrs. John Doe". I apologized to her at the wedding.

Never assume you know.

Which is why I always ask. I find name etiquette to often be 'wrong'. I never assume someone prefers x or y. None of my invitations were addressed to Mr. and Mrs. as everyone in my social circles prefers using the less formal version. I also asked the new Dr. if she would like that used and she rolled her eyes and said only if I must. Hers was just addressed to her first name.

Exactly. We have two friends who identify as non-binary (not strictly male or female) and asked them what courtesy title they preferred. Both told us "Mx.," which is gender-neutral. I'd be more in favor of a courtesy title like that than dropping them entirely.

ILoveBeachMusic · September 2016

OurWildKingdom said:

ernursej said:

CMGragain said:

I addressed one of daughter's invitations to a widow, a long time friend, who was a strong feminist. Since I knew her views, I addressed it as "Ms. Jane Doe". She returned the RSVP. with it corrected to "Mrs. John Doe". I apologized to her at the wedding.

Never assume you know.

Which is why I always ask. I find name etiquette to often be 'wrong'. I never assume someone prefers x or y. None of my invitations were addressed to Mr. and Mrs. as everyone in my social circles prefers using the less formal version. I also asked the new Dr. if she would like that used and she rolled her eyes and said only if I must. Hers was just addressed to her first name.

Exactly. We have two friends who identify as non-binary (not strictly male or female) and asked them what courtesy title they preferred. Both told us "Mx.," which is gender-neutral. I'd be more in favor of a courtesy title like that than dropping them entirely.

I understand why you friends chose this form of address; however, I would be offended to be addressed as such. Again, it is personal preference.

LtPowers · September 2016

This is why etiquette used to have standard rules for all this. The impulse to satisfy particular individuals' preferences is admirable, but it ends up making it impossible to address anyone without first asking how they'd like to be addressed.

Of course, once upon a time, you were introduced to people using their preferred forms of address, so you never had to ask.

Addressing invitation to widow who is uncle's date

Re: Addressing invitation to widow who is uncle's date

Choose Another Board

Search Boards