The shortest and most disastrous marriage ever...

bumpjanie · September 2016

This is a somewhat long story, but I'm going to give it my best and try to explain it because I am at a serious loss for advice... I'm using fake names bust trust me names are necessary because this story is ridiculously confusing. My best friend, and MOH, Jane was also asked to be the maid of honor in her sister Sally's wedding. About a month before Sally's wedding, Sally started getting cold feet. She confided in Jane, her sister and MOH, who was so incredibly supportive of her during this time. Jane confided in me that she didn't want to be the person to convince her sister to get married if she wasn't ready, but also didn't want her to bail because of some last minute jitters, especially because Jane LOVES Sally's fiance Sam, and thinks they are perfect together. Sam is a very close family friend, so he is already like a brother to her. She ultimately told her sister that only she could decide if she was ready to get married, but not to wait until the last second to call if off. Sally's FI Sam could sense her hesitancy, and about a week before the wedding gave her an "out"- told her that she could have the house and the dog if she didn't want to marry him, but to please not leave him at the alter. Meanwhile Sally is pretty vague about her feelings with everyone, leaving poor Jane to wonder if her sister Sally would even show up to her own wedding. Fast forward a couple of days....Sally and Sam get married. Jane sends me a couple of pictures the day after the wedding, it was wonderful, everyone showed up and there was no drama. HURRAY! She had been so incredibly stressed out and could breathe a sigh of relief! Well, then the shit hit the fan. The day after Sally's wedding, she is hanging out with her husband Sam, her husband's sister Ali, and Ali's husband John. -I should note that Ali is Sally's best friend, and was a bridesmaid in her wedding the day before. I should also note that John & Sam are best friends, and Sam was John's best man in their wedding less than a year ago. Are you confused yet? Basically the four of them are best friends, and are all hanging out together, like they do every weekend. Ali (grooms sister) checks her husband John's phone because she suspects something fishy is going on, and finds a lot of texts from Sally (those were the only details I was provided). She confronts Sally & John, at which point Sally admits she had been sleeping with John for the past month. On multiple occasions. Keep in mind Sally has been married for 24 hours, and is now admitting to sleeping with her new sister-in-laws (and best friend/husbands sister) husband, who is her husbands best friend. Awesome. Of course all hell breaks loose (I would NOT have wanted to be at that party) and family calls start getting made...Turns out- the PARENTS of this lovely union are ALSO best friends, so the ripple affect is UNBELIEVABLE. Sally is promptly booted from her house, and now getting a divorce. Literally, 24 hours after getting married. The other couple is divorcing too. Jane is completely mortified and disgusted, and feels completely betrayed by her sister. Jane and Sally's parents are FURIOUS with Sally. After all, she not only ruined two marriages, but also destroyed their relationship with Sam's parents. Not to mention the money they threw down for a marriage that was a total sham (well that's my input but still, that's gotta sting)...Sally and Jane's parents REFUSE to take Sally in and won't even speak to her. Jane is now faced with the unfortunate decision of whether or not to take Sally in, because she has no where else to go. She had a matter of hours to digest this whole situation when Sam, being the incredible man he is, calls Jane and begs her to take Sally because despite ending their relationship he is still worried about her. He tells Jane that if there is ONE thing she could do for him, it would be to let Sally stay with her for a while. So that brings us to today, where Sally is officially living with Jane now. All of these events have occurred in a matter of 4 days. Jane is in an impossible situation, on one hand she will always love her sister Sally, but at the moment she pretty much despises her- it's a pretty fresh wound. Tensions are high in the house and she is a bag of nerves, understandably so. Jane is not eating and crying all the time. Sally seems unphased, like it hasn't really "hit her". Jane is married with a kid of her own, so that makes it a little more complicated. She is only doing this for Sam, because he asked, and is hoping her parents will cool off and eventually take Sally- but who knows what the future holds. I'm worried that when this all sinks in Sally is going to have a nervous breakdown, and it will be on Jane to take care of her. So I have 2 questions- First, what advice would you give Jane? How do you live with someone you aren't even close to forgiving? How do you work on forgiving someone when you don't have space or time to figure it out? How do you establish boundaries while also trying make sure Sally doesn't do anything harmful to herself? (I'm afraid to even mention this to her because I don't want to add to her stresses, but I see it as a very serious possibility- what if something happened and I regret not saying anything!?). How do I get my dear friend to stop crying and start eating again when she is smack-dab in the middle of it all? How do I help her get to a better, more positive place? I have no idea what to say to her. She's literally living in a nightmare. I'm seriously at a total loss. Second question- my wedding is a month away, and Jane is my MOH. Should I delegate some of the day-of responsibilities to other bridesmaids? Take a little off her plate? Let it just be a sit-back-and-relax with the bride kind of day? I really don't mind, between my FI and I we have 5 sisters so there is more than enough helping hands for wedding-day details and general BS. I don't want her to feel like she isn't doing anything either, because I know she will want to be involved- taking stuff off her plate wouldn't make her feel like any less of a MOH right? I just want to do the right thing. She'e so overwhelmed and the timing for my wedding couldn't be worse. PLEASE HELP.

charlotte989875 · September 2016

Knottie38759220 said:

This is a somewhat long story, but I'm going to give it my best and try to explain it because I am at a serious loss for advice... I'm using fake names bust trust me names are necessary because this story is ridiculously confusing. My best friend, and MOH, Jane was also asked to be the maid of honor in her sister Sally's wedding. About a month before Sally's wedding, Sally started getting cold feet. She confided in Jane, her sister and MOH, who was so incredibly supportive of her during this time. Jane confided in me that she didn't want to be the person to convince her sister to get married if she wasn't ready, but also didn't want her to bail because of some last minute jitters, especially because Jane LOVES Sally's fiance Sam, and thinks they are perfect together. Sam is a very close family friend, so he is already like a brother to her. She ultimately told her sister that only she could decide if she was ready to get married, but not to wait until the last second to call if off. Sally's FI Sam could sense her hesitancy, and about a week before the wedding gave her an "out"- told her that she could have the house and the dog if she didn't want to marry him, but to please not leave him at the alter. Meanwhile Sally is pretty vague about her feelings with everyone, leaving poor Jane to wonder if her sister Sally would even show up to her own wedding. Fast forward a couple of days....Sally and Sam get married. Jane sends me a couple of pictures the day after the wedding, it was wonderful, everyone showed up and there was no drama. HURRAY! She had been so incredibly stressed out and could breathe a sigh of relief! Well, then the shit hit the fan. The day after Sally's wedding, she is hanging out with her husband Sam, her husband's sister Ali, and Ali's husband John. -I should note that Ali is Sally's best friend, and was a bridesmaid in her wedding the day before. I should also note that John & Sam are best friends, and Sam was John's best man in their wedding less than a year ago. Are you confused yet? Basically the four of them are best friends, and are all hanging out together, like they do every weekend. Ali (grooms sister) checks her husband John's phone because she suspects something fishy is going on, and finds a lot of texts from Sally (those were the only details I was provided). She confronts Sally & John, at which point Sally admits she had been sleeping with John for the past month. On multiple occasions. Keep in mind Sally has been married for 24 hours, and is now admitting to sleeping with her new sister-in-laws (and best friend/husbands sister) husband, who is her husbands best friend. Awesome. Of course all hell breaks loose (I would NOT have wanted to be at that party) and family calls start getting made...Turns out- the PARENTS of this lovely union are ALSO best friends, so the ripple affect is UNBELIEVABLE. Sally is promptly booted from her house, and now getting a divorce. Literally, 24 hours after getting married. The other couple is divorcing too. Jane is completely mortified and disgusted, and feels completely betrayed by her sister. Jane and Sally's parents are FURIOUS with Sally. After all, she not only ruined two marriages, but also destroyed their relationship with Sam's parents. Not to mention the money they threw down for a marriage that was a total sham (well that's my input but still, that's gotta sting)...Sally and Jane's parents REFUSE to take Sally in and won't even speak to her. Jane is now faced with the unfortunate decision of whether or not to take Sally in, because she has no where else to go. She had a matter of hours to digest this whole situation when Sam, being the incredible man he is, calls Jane and begs her to take Sally because despite ending their relationship he is still worried about her. He tells Jane that if there is ONE thing she could do for him, it would be to let Sally stay with her for a while. So that brings us to today, where Sally is officially living with Jane now. All of these events have occurred in a matter of 4 days. Jane is in an impossible situation, on one hand she will always love her sister Sally, but at the moment she pretty much despises her- it's a pretty fresh wound. Tensions are high in the house and she is a bag of nerves, understandably so. Jane is not eating and crying all the time. Sally seems unphased, like it hasn't really "hit her". Jane is married with a kid of her own, so that makes it a little more complicated. She is only doing this for Sam, because he asked, and is hoping her parents will cool off and eventually take Sally- but who knows what the future holds. I'm worried that when this all sinks in Sally is going to have a nervous breakdown, and it will be on Jane to take care of her. So I have 2 questions- First, what advice would you give Jane? How do you live with someone you aren't even close to forgiving? How do you work on forgiving someone when you don't have space or time to figure it out? How do you establish boundaries while also trying make sure Sally doesn't do anything harmful to herself? How do I get my dear friend to stop crying and start eating again when she is smack-dab in the middle of it all? How do I help her get to a better, more positive place? I have no idea what to say to her. She's literally living in a nightmare. I'm seriously at a total loss. Second question- my wedding is a month away, and Jane is my MOH. Should I delegate some of the day-of responsibilities to other bridesmaids? Take a little off her plate? Let it just be a sit-back-and-relax with the bride kind of day? I really don't mind, between my FI and I we have 5 sisters so there is more than enough helping hands for wedding-day details and general BS. I don't want her to feel like she isn't doing anything either, because I know she will want to be involved- taking stuff off her plate wouldn't make her feel like any less of a MOH right? I just want to do the right thing. She'e so overwhelmed and the timing for my wedding couldn't be worse. PLEASE HELP.

1. Leave your wedding out of this. She doesn't (or shouldn't!) have any "day-of" responsibilities, or any responsibilities besides showing up, relatively sober, in the dress and taking pictures. If you're expecting her to do more; stop, apologize, and make sure you have things handled for your own wedding.
2. Jane needs to buck up an act like an adult. Yes, this sucks, but not eating and not sleeping because her sister did something terrible? That's pretty extreme. She needs to take care of herself.
3. Sally, presumably is an adult and can eventually arrange housing for herself. Does she have a job? How does she have income? If Jane is choosing to allow her to stay she (Jane) needs to be clear about the expectations; is Sally contributing to the household expenses, how long is she going to be staying for, what are the "house rules"? If Sally is truly in a place where she will harm herself there are legal options available, but besides recommending counseling, this isn't on Jane to "fix" Sally.
4. Please use paragraphs.
5. Everyone needs to take a few steps back, and some big deep breaths (and some tequila). Yes, this is all very new and dramatic, and traumatic, but really, someone made some really terrible choices and now there are consequences. This isn't an emergency Jane, her parents, or you need to solve. It is something Sally needs to deal with, particularly with finding a place to live, but really Jane needs to determine what she is willing to do to help her sister and calmly and maturely communicate that to her.

ShesSoCold · September 2016

So, your best friend's sister banged her BIL and you're wondering how this will affect your wedding? The answer is not at all.

I get that this is a lot of talk show style drama happening and it's easy to want to be involved, but this doesn't have anything to do with you. Be a friend to your friend (who needs more than a friend if her sister's affair and divorce is having such an impact on her that it's affecting her health) and move on with your life and your wedding.

And don't sleep with your BIL.

bumpjanie · September 2016

Jane has established that Sally will pay rent and that the situation is temporary- so she has set-up some ground rules. You also have to understand that the many severed ties directly affect Jane as well- these are all people she has known for years. We all react differently to situations but I don't feel like her reaction makes her any less of an adult. I should also note the she is a lot older than her sister and has been more of a "motherly" figure to her sister, hence the profound disappointment. I do agree that everyone needs to take a deep breath and calm themselves and hopefully that will happen sooner than later. In regards to day-of duties, there are inevitably things that need to be done- being a liaison with the limo company for a pick-up in case there are last-minute issues, making sure people are all where they need to be at the right time (they will all have a timeline but ya never know), making sure someone grabs the bouquets and boutonnieres from the cooler and gets them to the right people, helping to clear gifts/guestbook, etc. out of the reception area at the end of the night, the list goes on and on. It's not really something you can take care of until you are in the moment, and it's nothing of dire importance but it all adds up to a lot. She of course offered to do all of this months ago but I'm thinking that maybe instead of one person over-seeing it all, I delegate a little bit to everyone so she can have a more relaxed day. Her husband is the best man in a wedding in 2 weeks, then my wedding. It will be a lot because she is traveling for both. Just thought a little less responsibility might be a good choice. I'm not concerned with how this will affect my wedding, I am just concerned about her.

mrsconn23 · September 2016

1) Be a friend to Jane.
2) If there was anything she "offered" to do day-of your wedding, just make sure you cover it or forget it.
3) She needs to take responsibility for herself. Not Sally. Not her parents feelings. Not doing favors for STB-ex-BIL Sam. As a friend, you need to remind her of that. She's got a kid and a spouse. This is Sally and John's mess. Yes, it sucks...but she can't let it suck her in. If that means kicking Sally out and not taking calls from anyone about this, so be it.
4) Talk to Jane about anything but Sally. If she brings it up, then talk through it. But don't be the one to do it.

short+sassy · September 2016

I understand why your BFF is upset. But crying and not eating for a few days? That sounds weird and extreme.

If you can get your friend in a calmed down moment, hopefully over drinks and dinner, work out a game plan with her. If her sister is working, has halfway decent credit, and first month's/security saved, there is no reason she couldn't move out within a matter of days. The vast majority of cities ALWAYS have some kind of rentals available right away.

The hardest obstacle to overcome would be if she doesn't have a job. If not, she needs one yesterday, and needs to start socking that money away. If she has a job, but doesn't have first/security. Again, she needs to start socking that money away. Assuming her finances are minimal living with her sis, it shouldn't take her long.

The sister and her now H should look at getting their marriage annulled instead of a divorce. I don't know much about it, but an annulment seems like a substantially easier and cheaper process.

Don't bother your MOH with anything in regards to your wedding. She has no duties except to show up, relatively sober, and in the appropriate attire. Don't rope other people into your wedding tasks/chores, unless they have already offered their help. If there is a shower and/or bachelorette in the works that your MOH is hosting, assure her it is fine with you if she cancels those events, if she is no longer feeling up to it.

charlotte989875 · September 2016

Knottie38759220 said:

Jane has established that Sally will pay rent and that the situation is temporary- so she has set-up some ground rules. You also have to understand that the many severed ties directly affect Jane as well- these are all people she has known for years. We all react differently to situations but I don't feel like her reaction makes her any less of an adult. I should also note the she is a lot older than her sister and has been more of a "motherly" figure to her sister, hence the profound disappointment. I do agree that everyone needs to take a deep breath and calm themselves and hopefully that will happen sooner than later. In regards to day-of duties, there are inevitably things that need to be done- being a liaison with the limo company for a pick-up in case there are last-minute issues, making sure people are all where they need to be at the right time (they will all have a timeline but ya never know), making sure someone grabs the bouquets and boutonnieres from the cooler and gets them to the right people, helping to clear gifts/guestbook, etc. out of the reception area at the end of the night, the list goes on and on. It's not really something you can take care of until you are in the moment, and it's nothing of dire importance but it all adds up to a lot. She of course offered to do all of this months ago but I'm thinking that maybe instead of one person over-seeing it all, I delegate a little bit to everyone so she can have a more relaxed day. Her husband is the best man in a wedding in 2 weeks, then my wedding. It will be a lot because she is traveling for both. Just thought a little less responsibility might be a good choice. I'm not concerned with how this will affect my wedding, I am just concerned about her.

These are all things that either you and your FInneed to be responsible for, or you need to hire and pay someone to be accountable for NOT one of your friends and family members that are your guests or you are honoring by asking to be in your BP.

kimmiinthemitten · September 2016

Knottie38759220 said/

Jane is completely mortified and disgusted, and feels completely betrayed by her sister. Jane and Sally's parents are FURIOUS with Sally. After all, she not only ruined two marriages, but also destroyed their relationship with Sam's parents.

1. Again, I will never understand people who are so emotionally linked to other people's sex lives and relationships. Sure, be disappointed in your family member, but to leave your daughter homeless and for the sister to be so emotional she is unable to eat is crazy. If the H was this distraught, okay understandable. But then again, he offered her the home to walk away and yet still went through with the ceremony.

A family out there just learned the remains of their son who has been missing for 27 years has been discovered. That's what makes you distraught enough to miss meals. Perspective people.

2. "After all, *they* not only ruined two marriages." Fixed that for you.

3. This has nothing to do with your wedding. Be Janes friend and encourage her to seek out why this is impacting her so deeply.

4. Your MOH is not a day of coordinator. If you were planning for her to do all of these things, you should look into hiring one.

bumpjanie · September 2016

charlotte989875 @kimmiinthemitten-I do appreciate your input but I just don't agree with it. There are 5 sisters involved with this wedding, who have asked me about a million times if there is anything they can do to help. My FI and I live in a different city than everyone else so we've not really had to ask for any involvement or help from anyone. After all it is our wedding so we should be the ones planning it. The whole thing has been very low-maintenance for the bridal party, no showers/parties, we bought the dresses/suits and sent them to everyone as part of their gift. (on that note Brooks Brothers has amazing 70% off sales if anyone is looking for nice but inexpensive suit options). We wanted it that way because we are older and a lot of people have families, and everyone lives in different places, we wanted to make it easy for people. Nonetheless, if I have a group of sisters that are offering help, I'm fine taking it for random tasks the day-of. Ironically, my MOH is like Monica from Friends, normally she would love the task of taking charge, which is precisely why she offered. I just think, given the circumstances with her sister/multiple weddings/multiple travels it might just be a lot. I feel like the Sally-factor has tipped it into territory that could possibly demand a Plan B. I'm not so sure why everyone is hung up on "my wedding"? Just worried about my best friend, not how it affects "my wedding" but how it all affects her. So quick so jump to conclusions! Is it crazy to take a step back and say- ok, maybe we should rethink this?

lyndausvi · September 2016

Should have known after reading that wall of text the question would be how the demise of 2 marriages will affect your wedding.

New Flash: it doesn't.

This just happened. While I agree the emotions of those outside of the four people in the marriage is a little extreme, lets let the dust settle a little okay?

Also, l agree with @kimmiinthemitten. Let's put the same blame on Sam John here. He was cheating on his wife with her BFF who is also his BFF's and his wife's brother's future wife. He destroyed his marriage, he helped destroy his BFF's marriage and also put a strain on his parent's relationship with their friends.

PSST - the wall of text was not necessary.

ETA - I've been a BM and MOH many times. Some of them OOT. My own wedding was OOT for everyone. Including ourselves. I've never been given a list of duties. Nor did I give one at my wedding.

kimmiinthemitten · September 2016

Knottie38759220 said:

charlotte989875 @kimmiinthemitten-I do appreciate your input but I just don't agree with it. There are 5 sisters involved with this wedding, who have asked me about a million times if there is anything they can do to help. My FI and I live in a different city than everyone else so we've not really had to ask for any involvement or help from anyone. After all it is our wedding so we should be the ones planning it. The whole thing has been very low-maintenance for the bridal party, no showers/parties, we bought the dresses/suits and sent them to everyone as part of their gift. (on that note Brooks Brothers has amazing 70% off sales if anyone is looking for nice but inexpensive suit options). We wanted it that way because we are older and a lot of people have families, and everyone lives in different places, we wanted to make it easy for people. Nonetheless, if I have a group of sisters that are offering help, I'm fine taking it for random tasks the day-of. Ironically, my MOH is like Monica from Friends, normally she would love the task of taking charge, which is precisely why she offered. I just think, given the circumstances with her sister/multiple weddings/multiple travels it might just be a lot. I feel like the Sally-factor has tipped it into territory that could possibly demand a Plan B. I'm not so sure why everyone is hung up on "my wedding"? Just worried about my best friend, not how it affects "my wedding" but how it all affects her. So quick so jump to conclusions! Is it crazy to take a step back and say- ok, maybe we should rethink this?

We can only respond to what you share. You shared the scenario and then asked about what to do given this information at your wedding.

Its great that your siblings have offered to help. My best friend is an event planner, I know what living with Monica is like. But if you're so dedicated to making sure it's an easy and enjoyable time for them, why not take it one step further and hire a DOC? Your explanation above only further supports this.

levioosa · September 2016

I'm really happy to hear how concerned you are about your friend after witnessing two marriages end and a difficult living situation begin. Oooh wait, your real question was about how to delegate duties on the day of the wedding. There aren't any duties. You and FI should handle last minute things. If that's too much for you, hire a day of coordinator. Your family friends are guests of honor, not your bridal bitches.

CMGragain · September 2016

"Jane" is your friend. She is upset about family drama.
Be her friend. Stay out of the drama (which is really none of your business), and don't expect anything of her at your wedding except her duties as your MOH, which are: show up in the dress, stand up with you while you say your vows and hold your bouquet, and smile for the pictures.

SP29 · September 2016

The only thing you can do OP, is to support Jane and remind her that she is not responsible for fixing Sally's problems. Only Sally (and John) are responsible for fixing their problems.

Sally is an adult. If Jane is so mad at Sally right now she can barely look at her, then Jane can tell Sally she has a week to find a place to rent and be gone.

I don't think anyone is saying Jane is not an adult because of they way she is processing all of this (although to be honest, the whole thing sounds way too intense with a lot of drama- everyone needs to let things chill); posters are saying she needs to take control of her own situation like an adult. She is not responsible for Sally, she cannot fix Sally's problems. If Sally is stressing Jane out too much, then Jane needs to put herself first and tell Sally to move out and start re-building her life/relationships on her own.

As for your own wedding, this shouldn't even be an issue. If Jane offered to help you out the day of, assume this responsibility yourself- it was your responsibility to begin with. I see no issue with a friend offering to help, and you accepting that offer, but at the end of the day, it's your responsibility, so if Jane can no longer offer help, you take the responsibility back. Do not spread out the "duties" among other WP members.

mollybarker11 · September 2016

SP29 said:

I see no issue with a friend offering to help, and you accepting that offer, but at the end of the day, it's your responsibility, so if Jane can no longer offer help, you take the responsibility back. Do not spread out the "duties" among other WP members.

Exactly this. Taking these tasks off of Jane's plate will not make her feel like "less of a MOH" because these are not MOH-specific things to begin with.

MesmrEwe · September 2016

First - be a friend to Jane - take her out for some Bowling and Ice cream! Or even better, go on a girl's night this weekend away where she can have a spa to just chill out and break state for a while. ZERO wedding talk! As for the rest, NOYB - That's for all parties involved to work out. As for expectations on your wedding day, drop that now because six weeks from now is a long time and she shouldn't have any anyway other than fluffing your train once in a while during the ceremony and smiling for some pictures.

MesmrEwe · September 2016

Also OP - I know someone IRL who had already filed for divorce within 6 hours of the ceremony - Shortly after the ceremony it came out the bride was banging a friend of hers, they announced it when they got to the reception and the groom got entirely sh**-faced because he'd already paid for everything...

kvruns · September 2016

kimmiinthemitten said:

Knottie38759220 said/

Jane is completely mortified and disgusted, and feels completely betrayed by her sister. Jane and Sally's parents are FURIOUS with Sally. After all, she not only ruined two marriages, but also destroyed their relationship with Sam's parents.

1. Again, I will never understand people who are so emotionally linked to other people's sex lives and relationships. Sure, be disappointed in your family member, but to leave your daughter homeless and for the sister to be so emotional she is unable to eat is crazy. If the H was this distraught, okay understandable. But then again, he offered her the home to walk away and yet still went through with the ceremony.

I still remember a break up in HS where the mom of the girl was so distraught over her daughter & BF's breakup that she broke picture frames in the house, laid around in bed, didnt eat etc. Sure you're sad your kid and their HS bf broke up, but breaking stuff and acting like you went through the breakup? No.

kimmiinthemitten · September 2016

kvruns said:

kimmiinthemitten said:

Knottie38759220 said/

Jane is completely mortified and disgusted, and feels completely betrayed by her sister. Jane and Sally's parents are FURIOUS with Sally. After all, she not only ruined two marriages, but also destroyed their relationship with Sam's parents.

1. Again, I will never understand people who are so emotionally linked to other people's sex lives and relationships. Sure, be disappointed in your family member, but to leave your daughter homeless and for the sister to be so emotional she is unable to eat is crazy. If the H was this distraught, okay understandable. But then again, he offered her the home to walk away and yet still went through with the ceremony.

I still remember a break up in HS where the mom of the girl was so distraught over her daughter & BF's breakup that she broke picture frames in the house, laid around in bed, didnt eat etc. Sure you're sad your kid and their HS bf broke up, but breaking stuff and acting like you went through the breakup? No.

The shortest and most disastrous marriage ever...

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