Problems with FMIL

Knottie1473816172 · January 2017

My fiancé and I are getting married this fall and his brother is getting married within a few months of us. We were able to plan pretty much everything within the first couple months of our engagement, including the fact that we do not want attendants as we are having an extremely small (family and VERY close friends only) destination wedding. His brother is in a similar situation. However, their mother is regularly (every time we talk) telling me how offended and deeply hurt that she is that the brothers are not having each other stand up in their weddings.

The thing is they love each other and are happy for each other, but are not very close. If they had someone standing up, they would not choose each other first. But now their mom is trying to guilt-trip them into having each other.

Also she is constantly talking bad about myself and my FSIL as she does not want her boys ever getting married. It isn't that she doesn't like us, but she does not want to ever lose her boys and see them with a woman other than her (I should also mention they are both in their mid/late 30s so it's not as if they are young and had just left the house).

But one of the things that has been the biggest issue is that his parents are divorced and have been for 25+ years. She claims that she cannot get over it even for one day and being near his dad is unacceptable. His dad is more than accommodating and said he will be pleasant and has no issues with putting things aside for the day. She will not. She keeps trying to arrange things to leave his dad out and make his dad feel bad.

It has gotten to the point that each time she calls us every word is negative and she has nothing but awful things to say to us about our wedding and has made this event, which was supposed to be joyous, something that we are almost dreading. We've talked about canceling our wedding all-together and just eloping, losing the couple thousand we have already secured in deposits.

Advice on how to handle her? My fiancé doesn't feel right having a conversation with her that if she keeps up the behavior she won't be welcome, though that's how he feels. I've spoken my mind to her several times and shared that she is being hurtful to us and she told me that it isn't about us. It's about her and we should only be thinking of her.

(I should also mention that she is not contributing financially to the wedding in any way. We are paying with the assistance of my parents)

geebee908 · January 2017

Knottie1473816172 said:

My fiancé and I are getting married this fall and his brother is getting married within a few months of us. We were able to plan pretty much everything within the first couple months of our engagement, including the fact that we do not want attendants as we are having an extremely small (family and VERY close friends only) destination wedding. His brother is in a similar situation. However, their mother is regularly (every time we talk) telling me how offended and deeply hurt that she is that the brothers are not having each other stand up in their weddings.

The thing is they love each other and are happy for each other, but are not very close. If they had someone standing up, they would not choose each other first. But now their mom is trying to guilt-trip them into having each other.

Also she is constantly talking bad about myself and my FSIL as she does not want her boys ever getting married. It isn't that she doesn't like us, but she does not want to ever lose her boys and see them with a woman other than her (I should also mention they are both in their mid/late 30s so it's not as if they are young and had just left the house).

But one of the things that has been the biggest issue is that his parents are divorced and have been for 25+ years. She claims that she cannot get over it even for one day and being near his dad is unacceptable. His dad is more than accommodating and said he will be pleasant and has no issues with putting things aside for the day. She will not. She keeps trying to arrange things to leave his dad out and make his dad feel bad.

It has gotten to the point that each time she calls us every word is negative and she has nothing but awful things to say to us about our wedding and has made this event, which was supposed to be joyous, something that we are almost dreading. We've talked about canceling our wedding all-together and just eloping, losing the couple thousand we have already secured in deposits.

Advice on how to handle her? My fiancé doesn't feel right having a conversation with her that if she keeps up the behavior she won't be welcome, though that's how he feels. I've spoken my mind to her several times and shared that she is being hurtful to us and she told me that it isn't about us. It's about her and we should only be thinking of her.

Your FI needs to get over his fear of the conversation, because she needs to be told that if she can't get over it (all of the stuff) and be pleasant, you'll need to cut off contact with her. If she can't be an adult for the day at your wedding, she'll be asked to leave. You have to enforce that in order to change her behavior. It won't be easy, but it will be worth it if it causes her to see that her boys will only have a relationship with her if she can accept that she isn't the focus of their lives.

CMGragain · January 2017

Knottie1473816172 said:

My fiancé and I are getting married this fall and his brother is getting married within a few months of us. We were able to plan pretty much everything within the first couple months of our engagement, including the fact that we do not want attendants as we are having an extremely small (family and VERY close friends only) destination wedding. His brother is in a similar situation. However, their mother is regularly (every time we talk) telling me how offended and deeply hurt that she is that the brothers are not having each other stand up in their weddings.

The thing is they love each other and are happy for each other, but are not very close. If they had someone standing up, they would not choose each other first. But now their mom is trying to guilt-trip them into having each other.

Also she is constantly talking bad about myself and my FSIL as she does not want her boys ever getting married. It isn't that she doesn't like us, but she does not want to ever lose her boys and see them with a woman other than her (I should also mention they are both in their mid/late 30s so it's not as if they are young and had just left the house).

But one of the things that has been the biggest issue is that his parents are divorced and have been for 25+ years. She claims that she cannot get over it even for one day and being near his dad is unacceptable. His dad is more than accommodating and said he will be pleasant and has no issues with putting things aside for the day. She will not. She keeps trying to arrange things to leave his dad out and make his dad feel bad.

It has gotten to the point that each time she calls us every word is negative and she has nothing but awful things to say to us about our wedding and has made this event, which was supposed to be joyous, something that we are almost dreading. We've talked about canceling our wedding all-together and just eloping, losing the couple thousand we have already secured in deposits.

Advice on how to handle her? My fiancé doesn't feel right having a conversation with her that if she keeps up the behavior she won't be welcome, though that's how he feels. I've spoken my mind to her several times and shared that she is being hurtful to us and she told me that it isn't about us. It's about her and we should only be thinking of her.

(I should also mention that she is not contributing financially to the wedding in any way. We are paying with the assistance of my parents)

Ah! Another MOG with Narcissistic Personality Disorder!

You cannot control your FMIL's behavior. Neither can your FI, your FBIL, or your FFIL!

You can choose to listen to her tirades, or you can cut her off, and hang up the telephone. If you continue to listen to her, she wins. Additionally, ignore any gossip or "messages" your FMIL might try to send through other relatives, like your FBIL. If she tries to confront you in person, remain calm and polite, but firm, and then leave if she misbehaves.

Your FMIL AND your FFIL will both be honored guests at your wedding, assuming you choose to go through with your plans. As a guest she has no say in any of the planning. Your FI should deal with her suggestions, not you. If he will not back you up, then you should reconsider the marriage.

If your FMIL announces that she will not attend because of FFIL's presence, you tell her, sweetly, that she will be missed at your wedding. You have just won. Chances are, she will show up. A narcissist wouldn't miss a chance like this to get attention. Do not seat your FI's parents together, in the same row, or at the same reception table. I sincerely hope that your FFIL brings a gorgeous and young date! If FMIL cannot behave herself, then your FBIL should be ready to escort her out.

I am very experienced with women with NPD. My mother was one. Our wedding was not serene, but I won. We've been happily married for more than 40 years. MY MIL (who was equally crazy, and threatened not to attend) quickly discovered that if she wanted to ever see her grandchildren, she had to behave herself, at least in public. What she said in private was not my concern.

Suggested invitation wording:

The pleasure of your company is requested

at the marriage of

Bride's Full Name

and

Groom's Full Name

Saturday, the twenty-first of October

two thousand seventeen

Venue

123 Maple Street

Anytown, Iowa

No, her name does NOT go on your invitation! She will not be hosting your wedding, thank goodness! Best wishes!

holyguacamole79 · January 2017

I agree with the others. I hope you are able to find joy in your wedding and marriage in spite of this negativity. This book is also a good resource.

southernbelle0915 · January 2017

What a drag. I'm so sorry your FMIL is casting such a negative shadow on this time that's supposed to be fun and special.

DO NOT CANCEL YOUR WEDDING! Bending to her behavior will only show her that whining and ultimatums will get her what she wants. You and your FH have to be the adults here (since she is obviously not). Unapologetically repeat your plans and if she continues to whine and pry, tell her you will not discuss the wedding with her. Period. End of story. No wedding talk. As soon as she brings it up, "We don't really want to discuss the wedding." "But omg MY needs MY needs MY needs" "Sorry, I have to go mow the lawn."

That's all you can really do. Be respectful, but firm. You run the show, not her. Let your FH handle the tough stuff. It's his mom and you don't want to give her any ammo that you're the bad guy.

ahoywedding · January 2017

Don't cancel your wedding, but your FI needs to talk to his mother and put a stop to this behavior. My dad's mom treated my mom similarly (he was her "darling little boy" and my mom was evil for "taking him away"). She called my mom on a regular basis to tell her she was a terrible wife & mother (she was neither). My dad never said anything to his mom, and it was an underlying source of tension until she passed. My mom would attend events with his family, but not really converse with his parents, which kind of made things awkward.

If your FI doesn't stand up for you now, he probably won't later. My parents have a great marriage in spite of this situation, but I know it doesn't always work that way. I'm not saying FMIL has to be uninvited to your wedding, but it's something you and FI need to work out before then.

MairePoppy · January 2017

Don't cancel your wedding! Tell your FMIL that your plans are finalized and you will not discuss the wedding with her any further because of her negative attitude. Then follow through. The next time, and every time after, that she brings up the wedding, walk out or hang up, without excusing yourself.

As for your fi, tell him to strap on a pair. He needs to have the talk with his mom about boundaries and respect. He should tell her that the two of you are a package deal and if she doesn't treat you with respect, she will not be seeing much of either of you. Period.

Your FMIL is going to have to face the fact that you, not she, is #1 in her son's life.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2017

Oh brother, sounds like you may want to start checking out https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/

banana468 · January 2017

Don't cancel the plans!

But I recommend a serious conversation with your FI.

This is his mom. He's understandably loves her and wants to avoid conflict. If he's like my DH, he has heard, "Honor thy father and mother," many times. That said, you can honor your parents while also standing up for yourself.

He may need to talk to her one on one and he may need to do this at a time that you're not with him. But I'd start by letting him know that:
-Marriage isn't going to make this go away. You'll be in his life forever as will she. You can't ignore the elephant in the room. And as someone who loves you, a sign of respecting you is telling his mom not to insult you.
-He needs to tell her that the wedding is on. If she can't make it she'll be missed.
-He needs to tell her that he loves BOTH of you. And just like I tell my 6 yo that love isn't like a cup of sugar with only so much to go around, he needs to say the same thing to her. She's not be replaced and she's never going to stop being his mom.

I have a MIL who can be difficult at times. But I have to say that when it's time to pick the battle, my husband stands up for US. And in the meantime, I've learned when to pick and choose my battles.

This hasn't gone as well for my BIL. He went from doing everything that my MIL wanted (bad) to now saying, "This is what the wife wants," (TERRIBLE!).

Finally, if it's at all possible, wait a while and try to engage your MIL as a friend. If she doesn't see you as a perceived threat it may help. At this point, I'd say that my MIL and I have a fabulous relationship and it all comes from a mutual understanding.

Jen4948 · January 2017

Your FI needs to deliver the following message to his mother: "Mom, FI and I have finalized our wedding plans. We would love it if you come to the wedding, but only if you keep negative opinions and hostility to yourself. If you can't do that, you will not be welcome at the wedding. We will miss you, but our decision is firm.

"Also final: from now on FI and I come as a package. Rudeness or hostility to her from you means that you are disrespecting me. If you don't stop it, then your complaint that you are 'losing me' will become a self-fulfilling prophecy, because we will minimize contact with you in the future."

mollybarker11 · January 2017

Knottie1473816172 said:

I've spoken my mind to her several times and shared that she is being hurtful to us and she told me that it isn't about us. It's about her and we should only be thinking of her.

OK I agree with everyone else that you need to simply remain firm and cordial but I would struggle to resist reminding her that it's illegal for mothers to marry their sons so this wedding is very much not about her.

Your only obligation is to treat her to the same comforts to which you'll be treating all of your other guests.

Your FI must get over his avoidance and set things straight with her, or at least establish a pattern of behaviour that lets her know he is your partner now. Hopefully this is just her having a fit over the emotions engagements can bring out in people, but if not I hope she is eventually able to have a good relationship with both her sons and her daughters-in-law.

CMGragain · January 2017

Honestly, if your FMIL does have Narcissistic Personality Disorder, she cannot change. She will not be able to admit that she is creating a problem.

You might want to check out my favorite book on this subject. Many libraries will have a copy. Though it is written for daughters of NPD mothers, it explains a lot about the condition.

https://www.amazon.com/Will-Ever-Good-Enough-Narcissistic/dp/1439129436/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1485649033&sr=1-1&keywords=will+i+ever+be+good+enough

justsie · January 2017

I agree with what a lot of PPs said OP, you need to sit down and talk to your MIL.

Can I also point out that it really bothers me, as a counselor, how often NPD is thrown around on these boards, most often by you CMG? If you wouldn't look at a picture of a rash and diagnose it from that, why would you diagnose a PERSONALITY DISORDER based off one snapshot of a person without ever even talking to said person. It is disrespectful. Many of the things described could be attributed to things other than NPD, and frankly the amount of information given here does not constitute this diagnosis anyway, it lacks all of the required criteria needed.

geebee908 · January 2017

@justsie, you are so right about making a diagnosis of a serious mental illness. Sometimes people are just selfish and need to be given a reason to look outside of themselves, which is what setting boundaries can help accomplish.

short+sassy · January 2017

If I were in your shoes, I'd be having a much bigger problem with my FI right now than my FMIL. HE'S the one who needs to be telling all of this to his mother, not you. He's essentially letting you be the "bad guy", ie messenger, because he is too cowardly to do it. This b.s. need to stop now. The two of you need to show a united front together, not just for the wedding, but future decisions. This is the first test. And if he doesn't step up for the first one, it's going to be a lot harder in the future to not be relegated as "bad guy messenger".

southernbelle0915 · January 2017

justsie said:

I agree with what a lot of PPs said OP, you need to sit down and talk to your MIL.

Can I also point out that it really bothers me, as a counselor, how often NPD is thrown around on these boards, most often by you CMG? If you wouldn't look at a picture of a rash and diagnose it from that, why would you diagnose a PERSONALITY DISORDER based off one snapshot of a person without ever even talking to said person. It is disrespectful. Many of the things described could be attributed to things other than NPD, and frankly the amount of information given here does not constitute this diagnosis anyway, it lacks all of the required criteria needed.

QFT.

Look CMG, I know you have a personal, painful history with your mom over this. That's valid. But every single time someone brings up a family member who's over involved and controlling about wedding planning, you bring up Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It's wildly inappropriate and unfair to these people you don't know.

PrettyGirlLost · January 2017

justsie said:

I agree with what a lot of PPs said OP, you need to sit down and talk to your MIL.

Can I also point out that it really bothers me, as a counselor, how often NPD is thrown around on these boards, most often by you CMG? If you wouldn't look at a picture of a rash and diagnose it from that, why would you diagnose a PERSONALITY DISORDER based off one snapshot of a person without ever even talking to said person. It is disrespectful. Many of the things described could be attributed to things other than NPD, and frankly the amount of information given here does not constitute this diagnosis anyway, it lacks all of the required criteria needed.

While the DSM-5 is full of many personality disorders that cold be applicable, oftentimes people are just assholes.

As far as I know, the DSM-5 has yet to add Asshole as a treatable disorder.

missfrodo · January 2017

PrettyGirlLost said:

justsie said:

I agree with what a lot of PPs said OP, you need to sit down and talk to your MIL.

Can I also point out that it really bothers me, as a counselor, how often NPD is thrown around on these boards, most often by you CMG? If you wouldn't look at a picture of a rash and diagnose it from that, why would you diagnose a PERSONALITY DISORDER based off one snapshot of a person without ever even talking to said person. It is disrespectful. Many of the things described could be attributed to things other than NPD, and frankly the amount of information given here does not constitute this diagnosis anyway, it lacks all of the required criteria needed.

While the DSM-5 is full of many personality disorders that cold be applicable, oftentimes people are just assholes.

As far as I know, the DSM-5 has yet to add Asshole as a treatable disorder.

Such a pity. If anyone ever finds a treatment, they'll make billions.

justsie · January 2017

missfrodo said:

PrettyGirlLost said:

justsie said:

I agree with what a lot of PPs said OP, you need to sit down and talk to your MIL.

Can I also point out that it really bothers me, as a counselor, how often NPD is thrown around on these boards, most often by you CMG? If you wouldn't look at a picture of a rash and diagnose it from that, why would you diagnose a PERSONALITY DISORDER based off one snapshot of a person without ever even talking to said person. It is disrespectful. Many of the things described could be attributed to things other than NPD, and frankly the amount of information given here does not constitute this diagnosis anyway, it lacks all of the required criteria needed.

While the DSM-5 is full of many personality disorders that cold be applicable, oftentimes people are just assholes.

As far as I know, the DSM-5 has yet to add Asshole as a treatable disorder.

Such a pity. If anyone ever finds a treatment, they'll make billions.

Potentially, but one can only think how difficult it would be to have someone go though this on their own. The first step is admitting you are an asshole, that might be a tough pill to swallow!

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