Pre-Nup Conundrum

short+sassy · April 2017

My fiancé is significantly wealthier than me and has asked that we draw up a prenuptial agreement to protect his existing assets in case of a divorce. He has been very clear that anything we earn or acquire during our marriage would be distributed equally, which is obviously better for me than for him. I understand why he wants this, and if I were in his position, I could see wanting the same thing. However, every time we talk about it, I get very emotional, because having to plan for the hypothetical end of our relationship is sad, right?! He doesn’t understand this and is very anxious that I am going to be weepy at the attorney’s office when we meet with her. He also comes from a divorced family and is once divorced himself, whereas no one in my family has ever divorced, and this is my first serious relationship. Big difference in perspective there. Am I unreasonable for having these feelings?

charlotte989875 · April 2017

Not unreasonable to feel how she feels, but she needs to determine if she's upset about planning for a possibility that she doesn't want, or if it's the prenup itself that she's upset about. Probably before walking into the lawyers office.

bleve0821 · April 2017

Feelings are feelings, they don't have to be reasonable or rational. I'm concerned that FI's biggest concern is how you'll "behave" at the attorney's office. Why should that even matter? It sounds like he's dismissing your feelings, completely, even though you seem to understand and even sympathize (not the word I wanted) with his reasons for wanting a pre-nup.

This decision affects you, too, LW, and FI needs to be supportive of you while you make this decision.

I hate pre-nups for the very reason that it feels like entering a marriage thinking it will fail. But I also understand the need, in some cases. If LW can't reconcile those two sides, I think some form of counseling may be needed.

short+sassy · April 2017

Her feelings aren't unreasonable, but she also needs to understand that this is real life. Her FI asking for a prenup is not unreasonable. At all. In fact, it is very wise. She even admits that herself. This might be a little cold, but she needs to suck it up and get the fairy tale stars out of her eyes.

Nobody gets married planning to divorce. The assumption for pretty much everyone getting married is "this is the person I'm spending the rest of my life with". Yet, divorce happens. And it isn't even that uncommon. None of us can see into the future. It is only pragmatic to realize, for as much as you love this other person right now and hope it is forever, it might not be and that needs to be planned for.

Tale of caution. I have a friend whose much wealthier ex-H wanted a pre-nup. She refused and told him that was a deal breaker for her. He didn't make her sign one and they got married. He cheated on her six months into their marriage and she left him. So, you'd think it was a good thing she didn't sign the pre-nup? Wrong.

Her biggest regret, other than marrying him in the first place, is that she didn't sign it. A pre-nup protects both parties. It keeps things clean and simple. It has already been decided what happens in the event of a divorce. Instead, he was mad she left him, and dragged her to court for any little excuse. Because he had the disposable income to pay for lawyers like it was nothing. She didn't. She spent thousands defending herself and was in debt for years. She wasn't even fighting for his money. She was fighting not be stuck with half of some of his debts.

DrillSergeantCat · April 2017

Agree with @short+sassy. The pre-nup protects you both. Go over it and see if there's a stipulation regarding alimony for you, clauses for infidelity (pre-nup is void in case of cheating), how debt will be divided, etc.

kvruns · April 2017

They should be using different lawyers for this so her side is equally represented so I'm not sure why they are going together. That being said, I understand why she is emotional about it. Mine sprung it on me about a month before the wedding and it was a very trying time, because I did feel like it was "planning for divorce". I understood why he wanted it (he inherited money from his grandma and paid off the house so he wanted it free and clear in divorce). He tried to say it protected me too since I have savings/investments/etc but really it was for him. I think ours was signed the week of the wedding. I don't recommend doing that.

levioosa · April 2017

Honestly, the older I get the more I think pre-nup agreements are a good idea. I don't think they're "planning" for anything. Life happens. Shit happens. Some situations are completely out of left field and there's nothing you can do about it. I'll get a pre-nup when SO and I get married, both for me, and for him.

southernbelle0915 · April 2017

I'm not trying to sound cold, but the divorce rate is what it is. No one (mostly?) goes into a marriage thinking it won't work.

I guess if I were in her position, I'd use joint money to hire an attorney (just as good as his, but one I chose) to look it over and help me think about my interests. I would add language that suited me. THEN I'd sign it.

I don't want to make a mountain out of a molehill, but why does he give a shit that she cries in the attorney's office? So he can keep up appearances with some lawyer he hired? Who gives a shit what she thinks?

banana468 · April 2017

Beyond the divorce rate, what about death?

Plenty of people draw up pre nups so assets stay in a family and may not go outside in the event that someone passes.

kvruns · April 2017

banana468 said:

Beyond the divorce rate, what about death?

Plenty of people draw up pre nups so assets stay in a family and may not go outside in the event that someone passes.

wouldn't you just accomplish that with a will

lnixon8 · April 2017

I'm paraphrasing Carolyn Hax but she said something about before you marry someone think about how they may behave if a divorce happens. Would they be nasty, spiteful, or just logical and fair? I always think about that when pre-nups are brought up.

charlotte989875 · April 2017

kvruns said:

banana468 said:

Beyond the divorce rate, what about death?

Plenty of people draw up pre nups so assets stay in a family and may not go outside in the event that someone passes.

wouldn't you just accomplish that with a will

But if the spouse is alive in many cases they inherit the assets, no? (Not a lawyer, just someone who teaches Con Law).

kvruns · April 2017

charlotte989875 said:

kvruns said:

banana468 said:

Beyond the divorce rate, what about death?

Plenty of people draw up pre nups so assets stay in a family and may not go outside in the event that someone passes.

wouldn't you just accomplish that with a will

But if the spouse is alive in many cases they inherit the assets, no? (Not a lawyer, just someone who teaches Con Law).

STUCK

I'm not on top of what supercedes what (prenup v will) so I'll bow out but I would think/hope you could accomplish that with a good will instead of needing it in the prenup first. who knows (not me)

DrillSergeantCat · April 2017

kvruns said:

STUCK

I'm not on top of what supercedes what (prenup v will) so I'll bow out but I would think/hope you could accomplish that with a good will instead of needing it in the prenup first. who knows (not me)

If it's inherited during the marriage, it's marital assets unless specifically agreed upon in a pre-nup.

MissKittyDanger · April 2017

kvruns said:

charlotte989875 said:

kvruns said:

banana468 said:

Beyond the divorce rate, what about death?

Plenty of people draw up pre nups so assets stay in a family and may not go outside in the event that someone passes.

wouldn't you just accomplish that with a will

But if the spouse is alive in many cases they inherit the assets, no? (Not a lawyer, just someone who teaches Con Law).

STUCK

I'm not on top of what supercedes what (prenup v will) so I'll bow out but I would think/hope you could accomplish that with a good will instead of needing it in the prenup first. who knows (not me)

Not lawyer, basing this information on what I've heard/dealt with.

If there is debt, the estate has to pay it out - regardless of prenup/will.

MARITAL/COMMON LAW SPOUSE will automatically get assets/money/estate unless will states otherwise.

Will - says where assets/money will go

Prenup - protects either spouse from taking anything in event of a divorce.

Prenup in many cases will not cover what a will does in case of death.

Will can have "just in case of health" choices {example: my parents have in will that if either are in accident and on life support and 2 drs state that if unplugged, will not survive - family does not have to make choice}

edit: this could also just be in Canada fyi

banana468 · April 2017

kvruns said:

banana468 said:

Beyond the divorce rate, what about death?

Plenty of people draw up pre nups so assets stay in a family and may not go outside in the event that someone passes.

wouldn't you just accomplish that with a will

Depends.

I don't have a pre-nup or family assets. But if DH died and there was a family trust or property, there could be a pre-nup that stated that the trust was only to be used / owned by next of kin and any future spouse I had did not have access to it. Wills help but from what I understand the pre-nup helps to clear things from the start.

Ditto for any business related issues.

MyNameIsNot · April 2017

DrillSergeantCat said:

kvruns said:

STUCK

I'm not on top of what supercedes what (prenup v will) so I'll bow out but I would think/hope you could accomplish that with a good will instead of needing it in the prenup first. who knows (not me)

If it's inherited during the marriage, it's marital assets unless specifically agreed upon in a pre-nup.

Not usually. (And I actually am a lawyer who did practice family law for several miserable years.) In most states, inheritance is non-marital, regardless of when it is inherited. Co-mingling the asset gets dicey, though. If you use the inheritance to put a down payment on a house, but then use marital funds to make the mortgage payment, separating out the inheritance is a mess.

A pre-nup does what a will can't when it comes to protecting your surviving spouse from creditors.

The will that lays out what happens if you're incapacitated is called a Living Will. Although it has the same name, it's a completely different document than a Last Will.

ernursej · April 2017

Prenups are essential in my view. H and I had a common law agreement and then resigned a prenup prior to getting married. Protects both sides. It also helps keep the tempers down in a divorce. We've had two sets of friends divorce with prenups and they are all still friendly and hang out together. The third set that has divorced didn't have a prenup and it got nasty in court.

I can totally support LW being emotional about the thought of divorce but I think she needs to see that this is a positive step in that they are talking about the worse case scenario. If you can talk about this, you can talk about anything. Communication and money are some of the biggest issues causing divorce. Being able to talk (even if upset) and getting the money sorted out should be seen as good things.

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