Who hosts the engagement party?

DarthV8r · June 2017

I am the daughter of the bride and MOH. I haven't had a dinner with my mom's f.i. yet. I haven't met his grown children yet either. Should I host a small engagement party with cake and punch? I'm not sure if it's my place to host and I'm not sure if I should initiate the introducing of the families. I also want to wait for both the divorces to be finalized before I host or plan anything wedding related. Yes, they are both still married to other people but divorces will be finalized this month.

knottie72d6b636c9389057 · June 2017

They got engaged before either one was divorced??? Sorry, I'm not sure if I'm following your post.

DarthV8r · June 2017

Yknottie72d6b636c9389057 said:

They got engaged before either one was divorced??? Sorry, I'm not sure if I'm following your post.

yes, how is it hard to follow? What can I do to simplify my questions and explain the situation better?

edited to add quote

LondonLisa · June 2017

I agree to wait until everything is finalised.

I would float the idea to your mum and her fi first. Even though everyone is an adult, you might be walking into a sticky situation with his kids and how they feel about their father remarrying. I'm not saying it's right, but people can get prickly about parents remarrying.

But if they think it's a good idea, I think it would be really nice to host him, his kids, their partners, and your siblings/ partners as a nice intimate way to get to know each other. I think a nice wine and canapés one evening would be fun.

Etf typo

DarthV8r · June 2017

LondonLisa said:

I agree to wait until everything is finalised.

I would float the idea to your mum and her fi first. Even though everyone is an adult, you might be walking into a sticky situation with his kids and how they feel about their father remarrying. I'm not saying it's right, but people can get prickly about parents remarrying.

But if they think it's a good idea, I think it would be really nice to host him, his kids, their partners, and your siblings/ partners as a nice intimate way to get to know each other. I think a nice wine and canapés one evening would be fun.

Etf typo

I would have loved a wine and canapes party, however my mother does not drink. Also after speaking with her to see how she felt about this, I learned she doesn't know when his divorce is final. He only filed last month even though they've been separated for months. So an engagement party might be out the question. If it doesn't happen within 2 months the ship will have sailed.

After that conversation I'm concerned and want to back off on it.

kwiksilver · June 2017

knottie72d6b636c9389057 said:

They got engaged before either one was divorced??? Sorry, I'm not sure if I'm following your post.

While it's not really ideal, I got engaged a whole year and some before my divorce. I had been separated for over 4 years, and I actually had to use the engagement to push my ex into re-filing the paperwork. Our first application was rejected. I sucked it up and just paid for everything to be re-done.

Not it everyone has a quick and painless divorce.

DarthV8r · June 2017

kwiksilver said:

knottie72d6b636c9389057 said:

They got engaged before either one was divorced??? Sorry, I'm not sure if I'm following your post.

While it's not really ideal, I got engaged a whole year and some before my divorce. I had been separated for over 4 years, and I actually had to use the engagement to push my ex into re-filing the paperwork. Our first application was rejected. I sucked it up and just paid for everything to be re-done.

Not it everyone has a quick and painless divorce.

My mother has not been romantically involved with her soon to be ex for 10 years. She was just lazy. I'm glad I nudged her her to do it before she met her new FI.

CMGragain · June 2017

DarthV8r said:

I am the daughter of the bride and MOH. I haven't had a dinner with my mom's f.i. yet. I haven't met his grown children yet either. Should I host a small engagement party with cake and punch? I'm not sure if it's my place to host and I'm not sure if I should initiate the introducing of the families. I also want to wait for both the divorces to be finalized before I host or plan anything wedding related. Yes, they are both still married to other people but divorces will be finalized this month.

The bolded is a good idea. People cannot be engaged if they are married to someone else. A person cannot have both a spouse and a fiance at the same time.
I get it that your mother's family life is complicated. I came from the same background. One of my ex-stepfathers got married the day the divorce from my mother was final. That doesn't mean that he was engaged to his wife number three before that day. They just had plans. Mom had a four year affair with a married man. They promised each other they would get married, but were waiting for his wife to die of cancer. (Ewww!!) They were not engaged until after the poor lady died.
You can host the party after the divorces are final. Stuff can happen, so don't plan it too soon. (Been there!)

kwiksilver · June 2017

CMGragain said:

DarthV8r said:

I am the daughter of the bride and MOH. I haven't had a dinner with my mom's f.i. yet. I haven't met his grown children yet either. Should I host a small engagement party with cake and punch? I'm not sure if it's my place to host and I'm not sure if I should initiate the introducing of the families. I also want to wait for both the divorces to be finalized before I host or plan anything wedding related. Yes, they are both still married to other people but divorces will be finalized this month.

The bolded is a good idea. People cannot be engaged if they are married to someone else. A person cannot have both a spouse and a fiance at the same time.
I get it that your mother's family life is complicated. I came from the same background. One of my ex-stepfathers got married the day the divorce from my mother was final. That doesn't mean that he was engaged to his wife number three before that day. They just had plans. Mom had a four year affair with a married man. They promised each other they would get married, but were waiting for his wife to die of cancer. (Ewww!!) They were not engaged until after the poor lady died.
You can host the party after the divorces are final. Stuff can happen, so don't plan it too soon. (Been there!)

Except in the eyes of the Canadian Revenue Agency LOL. I found it very odd that even though I wasn't legally divorced, FI and I were required to file taxes as common law after we had lived together for a year. So I guess technically it was 2 spouses and not a spouse and a fiancé. Tax laws are weird.

Not to hijack the thread, it just struck me as very strange at the time.

knottie72d6b636c9389057 · June 2017

Sorry. I was trying to be polite. One cannot have a husband and a fiancé. I've never heard of someone getting engaged to one person, while still legally married to another? I get that you were trying to be a good daughter and do the polite thing. Unfortunately, it can't be done in this situation until both divorces are final.

charlotte989875 · June 2017

Sounds like after your chat with you mother waiting on the party until her FI is divorced would be the way to go. But if his is finalized quickly and they would like to accept your offer for a party I think it would be nice to have a time for the families to meet, if everyone seems receptive to that.

As for the "someone can't be engaged and still married" that's ridiculous. People can be and often are separated legally from one another before a divorce is finalized, but also being engaged isn't a legal status. So if they think of themselves as engaged before the divorces are finalized then they are. There's nothing preventing two people from being engaged and still be married. Clearly they can't get married until the divorces are finalized but engaged and married clearly not the same thing.

redoryx · June 2017

CMGragain said:

DarthV8r said:

I am the daughter of the bride and MOH. I haven't had a dinner with my mom's f.i. yet. I haven't met his grown children yet either. Should I host a small engagement party with cake and punch? I'm not sure if it's my place to host and I'm not sure if I should initiate the introducing of the families. I also want to wait for both the divorces to be finalized before I host or plan anything wedding related. Yes, they are both still married to other people but divorces will be finalized this month.

The bolded is a good idea. People cannot be engaged if they are married to someone else. A person cannot have both a spouse and a fiance at the same time.
I get it that your mother's family life is complicated. I came from the same background. One of my ex-stepfathers got married the day the divorce from my mother was final. That doesn't mean that he was engaged to his wife number three before that day. They just had plans. Mom had a four year affair with a married man. They promised each other they would get married, but were waiting for his wife to die of cancer. (Ewww!!) They were not engaged until after the poor lady died.
You can host the party after the divorces are final. Stuff can happen, so don't plan it too soon. (Been there!)

Seeing as how there isn't anything legal about the state of engagement, sure they can.

I mean, yes, I agree that one should probably not be engaged while still married and they certainly shouldn't start planning a wedding and they obviously can't get a marriage license while still married, but it is incorrect to say that a person cannot be engaged if they are married to someone else.

Edit to add: that's a very monogamous point of view to take, as well. I realize that poly relationships are not able to legally marry everyone, but there are plenty of couples who are married and also have FIs and even other (non legally binding) spouses.

knottie72d6b636c9389057 · June 2017

Thinking of one's self as engaged doesn't make one engaged. I won't go into the "legal status" of engagement (I'm an attorney) because we are on an Etiquette forum, not on a legal one. It is beyond a breach of etiquette to be engaged before one is legally divorced. She can say they are planning to wed when both divorces come through, but they are not engaged. Engagement signals an intent to legally marry one's fiancé. In this fact pattern, neither party is in a position to do so. Once both parties are divorced, they can announce an engagement (I suspect it will be a short one), and the daughter can throw a lovely, low-key engagement party. In the meantime, how about hosting a luncheon or small cocktail party where everyone can be introduced before the formal engagement?

JediElizabeth · June 2017

knottie72d6b636c9389057 said:

Thinking of one's self as engaged doesn't make one engaged. I won't go into the "legal status" of engagement (I'm an attorney) because we are on an Etiquette forum, not on a legal one. It is beyond a breach of etiquette to be engaged before one is legally divorced. She can say they are planning to wed when both divorces come through, but they are not engaged. Engagement signals an intent to legally marry one's fiancé. In this fact pattern, neither party is in a position to do so. Once both parties are divorced, they can announce an engagement (I suspect it will be a short one), and the daughter can throw a lovely, low-key engagement party. In the meantime, how about hosting a luncheon or small cocktail party where everyone can be introduced before the formal engagement?

If people can only be engaged when they are currently legally able to marry, does that mean people under 18 cannot be engaged without parental consent, even if they're planning their wedding for after their 18th birthdays?

This logic seems a bit specious to me, especially because we often tell posters who think they're not engaged because they have a ring that "being engaged only means you intend to marry, and if you've agreed to get married you're already engaged."

CMGragain · June 2017

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I was invited to a formal engagement party where the young man being honored is still legally married to his first wife. I am uncomfortable with this, but have been told I'm being silly. What are your thoughts?

GENTLE READER: That the young man will be even more uncomfortable than yourself if he is equally careless about scheduling his second wedding.

The law requires second marriages to follow the dissolution of the first marriages. Etiquette agrees that any associated festivities should do so as well.

-------

Dear Miss Manners: I have been going through a rough divorce for more than a year and have met a wonderful man who wants to get engaged. My husband is trying to hold out in settling the divorce as long as he can for financial reasons.

Is it unethical for me to get engaged while still going through this divorce, when he has moved on with another woman, and I am not dating someone?

Gentle Reader: You’re not? And here Miss Manners would have thought that was a necessary prelude to becoming engaged.

Perhaps you anticipate being in marital limbo for some time, during which you hope to resettle yourself. Then again, maybe you just meant “now” when you typed “not.”

Discretion is not a favorite virtue of the selfie generation, even among those who have heard of the concept. But, then, indiscretion is hardly new. In a 1916 short story, Autres Temps, dear Edith Wharton refers to a character whose husband found out that she meant to divorce him when he saw her wearing a new engagement ring.

For a married lady to declare herself engaged was in bad taste then, and it is in bad taste now.

MandyMost · June 2017

To address the original question, anyone can offer to throw the couple an engagement party. The key words there are "offer to throw". The couple doesn't have to accept.

"Mom, I'd love to host an engagement dinner for you and Fiance, and invite both of the families. Are you alright with that? Does X date work for you?"

If she's not comfortable having everyone meet, she can turn it down.

And of course, if you're not comfortable throwing the party (because one or both of them are not legally divorced, or any other reason why you wouldn't be comfortable throwing it) then you don't have to offer.

OwningAHome1981 · June 2017

You CAN have a fiancé & a husband... you just can't have a husband and then marry the fiancée while you still have the husband

OwningAHome1981 · June 2017

redoryx said:

CMGragain said:

DarthV8r said:

I am the daughter of the bride and MOH. I haven't had a dinner with my mom's f.i. yet. I haven't met his grown children yet either. Should I host a small engagement party with cake and punch? I'm not sure if it's my place to host and I'm not sure if I should initiate the introducing of the families. I also want to wait for both the divorces to be finalized before I host or plan anything wedding related. Yes, they are both still married to other people but divorces will be finalized this month.

The bolded is a good idea. People cannot be engaged if they are married to someone else. A person cannot have both a spouse and a fiance at the same time.
I get it that your mother's family life is complicated. I came from the same background. One of my ex-stepfathers got married the day the divorce from my mother was final. That doesn't mean that he was engaged to his wife number three before that day. They just had plans. Mom had a four year affair with a married man. They promised each other they would get married, but were waiting for his wife to die of cancer. (Ewww!!) They were not engaged until after the poor lady died.
You can host the party after the divorces are final. Stuff can happen, so don't plan it too soon. (Been there!)

Seeing as how there isn't anything legal about the state of engagement, sure they can.

I mean, yes, I agree that one should probably not be engaged while still married and they certainly shouldn't start planning a wedding and they obviously can't get a marriage license while still married, but it is incorrect to say that a person cannot be engaged if they are married to someone else.

Edit to add: that's a very monogamous point of view to take, as well. I realize that poly relationships are not able to legally marry everyone, but there are plenty of couples who are married and also have FIs and even other (non legally binding) spouses.

Yes I posted the above as well. There's nothing legal about an engagement so of course someone can still be 'married' and engaged @ the same time (though I don't advise to do so, it actually is possible)

DarthV8r · June 2017

scribe95 said:

Sounds like this is moving fast. Still married and you - her daughter - haven't even had a meal with her fiance? How does that happen?

::STINB:::

I haven't had a meal with him yet because I was hesitant to meet him. I just wanted to be sure they were an "item" first. They've only been together a short while. (I think 3-4 months) I've invited them to go out for dinner towards the end of this month.

DarthV8r · June 2017

scribe95 said:

I honestly would focus on getting to know him and not worry about an engagement party yet.

I am going to do that. I don't want to feel so awkward. He has adult children too. I don't know how they feel. I can always just host a bbq anytime.

Who hosts the engagement party?

Re: Who hosts the engagement party?

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