What to do to get dudes to leave me alone?

mrsconn23 · July 2017

Dear Prudence,

I'm in my late 40s, successful, and fairly attractive. I travel both domestically and internationally alone quite a bit. I try my best to cultivate a standoffish air, complete with big headphones, but that only seems to dissuade the polite guys who can take a hint. I end up getting hit on by men who are almost universally lacking in social decorum, to the point that I’m not interested in talking to them, much less letting them buy me a drink. I'm not big and I look young so it's hard to appear physically intimidating. It's very uncomfortable because no matter how polite I am they almost always pull attitude when I decline their offer. Since it happens most often when I’m traveling, sometimes we’re staying at the same hotel, sharing an exit row on the plane, or attending the same conference. I sometimes find myself hiding, checking the locks on my hotel room door, or not falling asleep on long flights. When I travel near home I bring my German Shepherds with me, which helps, but I get tired of making up imaginary boyfriends to keep these guys at bay. The two most recent instances actually involved the owners of the small hotels I was staying at—one said it was “cool” with his pregnant partner if he and I had a relationship (so completely not my thing) and I'm too uncomfortable to go back again. The other followed me back to my cabin on a prior visit. Both places are isolated, without cell coverage.

I want to enjoy my travel and not worry about creepy men. How do I best handle these situations? I work in tech and put up with this type of treatment day in, day out, and don't really want to spend my free time dealing with it too. And please don’t think I’m being stuck-up about my appearance. This isn't about how I look. It is about how entitled these men feel for the attention of any woman alone. Short of a mail-order husband or staying home, what is your advice? Before you think, “Boo-hoo, these aren’t real problems,” please consider how you’d feel, spending your hard-earned money on a vacation where you feel compelled to hide behind guard dogs or a locked door.

—No Thanks, I’m Fine

MissKittyDanger · July 2017

Safety wise, I don't think it's a good idea to travel to no cell coverage places. That's where horror movies begin.

I think LW needs to find a course that could boost the assertiveness, that way she'd feel more confident and comfortable telling people she's not interested without fear.

{side note: I get the fear. I've heard of horrible things happening to women who turn down the wrong type of guy}

banana468 · July 2017

I feel like the LW may need to work on ways to assert herself while making it clear that no means no.

Some people are jack asses. But if this seems to be a repeated pattern of behavior for her, it may help to understand she can do something different.

In no way do I think that she's bringing this on herself but perhaps there are coping techniques she can learn.

In the meantime, I think that there is safety in numbers. I would not travel to a location that is known for zero cell reception alone. That just scares me.

charlotte989875 · July 2017

Say "no" clearly and directly. If the offenders keep insisting, say you'll ask the bartender/manager/staff to step in, and follow through. Also, if you're traveling to isolated areas without cell service, carry mace/a knife (of legal in your area), or other small weapon. Not just for people, but bears or other terrifying woodland animals (I'm looking at you squirrels).

This is wrong, but how often is LW getting hit on to the point she repeatedly can't go back to her room/sleep on a plane/go about her business? I travel for work fairly frequently, and I'm a pretty social person, but this frequency here is making me wonder if she isn't distinguishing between normal socializing and flirting, or there's some humblebrag going on.

climbingsingle · July 2017

I'm not trying to victim blame - trust me. But I find it weird that she even got so far in a conversation with a hotel owner about his ability to have an open relationship. I don't know. If I get hit on, I shut that shit down right away. I even got hit on while IN my wedding dress after my wedding. I make it known right away that it's a HARD NO.

I get being scared. There's been times I've been catcalled and instead of ignoring it, I will curse and yell and give the finger. And then instantly regret it because what if I've enraged this guy to the point where he wants to attack me. But for her to never feel safe - it seems extreme. And I speak as a victim of sexual assault. Maybe she needs to talk to someone about this.

I also agree that traveling alone to an area with no cell reception is not smart, and not something I would ever do.

MissKittyDanger · July 2017

climbingwife said:

I'm not trying to victim blame - trust me. But I find it weird that she even got so far in a conversation with a hotel owner about his ability to have an open relationship. I don't know. If I get hit on, I shut that shit down right away. I even got hit on while IN my wedding dress after my wedding. I make it known right away that it's a HARD NO.

I get being scared. There's been times I've been catcalled and instead of ignoring it, I will curse and yell and give the finger. And then instantly regret it because what if I've enraged this guy to the point where he wants to attack me. But for her to never feel safe - it seems extreme. And I speak as a victim of sexual assault. Maybe she needs to talk to someone about this.

I also agree that traveling alone to an area with no cell reception is not smart, and not something I would ever do.

I need to hear more on what happened!

short+sassy · July 2017

I'd wear a wedding ring, if I were her. I mean, sad it would have to come to that, but it is the perfect excuse. I'm not saying some men won't still hit on her and be pushy; however, one would hope the "pointing at her ring and saying she is happily married", would at least deter more men from being "offended" and getting mad.

I'm also with @charlotte989875. Not that I want to "blame the victim", but I'm also wondering if it is something about her that is exacerbating the problem. Maybe because she gets hit on a lot, she sometimes makes assumptions that aren't there. Maybe sometimes she isn't being clear or assertive enough in her rejections.

Don't misunderstand me. She shouldn't have to do any of those things. People should just be polite and "get the hint", as it sounds like many men do. But, at the end of the day, it's about fixing the problem she is having.

YES, there are creeps out there. YES, there are guys who will stalk/attack a woman, just because she gave them a passing smile or they just like the way she looks. But that is not the vast, vast majority of the population.

I'll give an example, I have a good friend who is traffic-stopping gorgeous. She even modeled in her younger days. She gets hit on ALL THE TIME. I've been there when men have just randomly stopped her in the street and tried to chat her up. Or approached her in a bar/restaurant. She politely rebuffs them, they go away. She does 50% travel on her job, though only domestically and generally in big cities. I've never heard her complain about anything like what the LW is saying.

climbingsingle · July 2017

MissKittyDanger said:

climbingwife said:

I'm not trying to victim blame - trust me. But I find it weird that she even got so far in a conversation with a hotel owner about his ability to have an open relationship. I don't know. If I get hit on, I shut that shit down right away. I even got hit on while IN my wedding dress after my wedding. I make it known right away that it's a HARD NO.

I get being scared. There's been times I've been catcalled and instead of ignoring it, I will curse and yell and give the finger. And then instantly regret it because what if I've enraged this guy to the point where he wants to attack me. But for her to never feel safe - it seems extreme. And I speak as a victim of sexual assault. Maybe she needs to talk to someone about this.

I also agree that traveling alone to an area with no cell reception is not smart, and not something I would ever do.

I need to hear more on what happened!

Hahaha! Well, we got married at a resort during the day, and there were a few other events happening after ours. My reception ended at 6, and then we all hung out at the main bar afterwards. I kept my wedding dress on and did not change. I had gone up to the bar to get myself a drink, and since the bartender was busy, it was taking a while. The guy next to me started talking to me, and offered to buy me a drink. I said no, thanks. He just kept talking, telling me that he was there for his FIL's birthday party. Then he said, "You're so beautiful. It's a shame you're married. I would have shown you a really good time." VOMIT. My H must have sensed what was going on, because he was literally at my side within 2 seconds of this comment.

MissKittyDanger · July 2017

climbingwife said:

MissKittyDanger said:

climbingwife said:

I'm not trying to victim blame - trust me. But I find it weird that she even got so far in a conversation with a hotel owner about his ability to have an open relationship. I don't know. If I get hit on, I shut that shit down right away. I even got hit on while IN my wedding dress after my wedding. I make it known right away that it's a HARD NO.

I get being scared. There's been times I've been catcalled and instead of ignoring it, I will curse and yell and give the finger. And then instantly regret it because what if I've enraged this guy to the point where he wants to attack me. But for her to never feel safe - it seems extreme. And I speak as a victim of sexual assault. Maybe she needs to talk to someone about this.

I also agree that traveling alone to an area with no cell reception is not smart, and not something I would ever do.

I need to hear more on what happened!

Hahaha! Well, we got married at a resort during the day, and there were a few other events happening after ours. My reception ended at 6, and then we all hung out at the main bar afterwards. I kept my wedding dress on and did not change. I had gone up to the bar to get myself a drink, and since the bartender was busy, it was taking a while. The guy next to me started talking to me, and offered to buy me a drink. I said no, thanks. He just kept talking, telling me that he was there for his FIL's birthday party. Then he said, "You're so beautiful. It's a shame you're married. I would have shown you a really good time." VOMIT. My H must have sensed what was going on, because he was literally at my side within 2 seconds of this comment.

Omg! Lol that's horrible but hilarious!!
Did your H say anything?

climbingsingle · July 2017

MissKittyDanger said:

climbingwife said:

MissKittyDanger said:

climbingwife said:

I'm not trying to victim blame - trust me. But I find it weird that she even got so far in a conversation with a hotel owner about his ability to have an open relationship. I don't know. If I get hit on, I shut that shit down right away. I even got hit on while IN my wedding dress after my wedding. I make it known right away that it's a HARD NO.

I get being scared. There's been times I've been catcalled and instead of ignoring it, I will curse and yell and give the finger. And then instantly regret it because what if I've enraged this guy to the point where he wants to attack me. But for her to never feel safe - it seems extreme. And I speak as a victim of sexual assault. Maybe she needs to talk to someone about this.

I also agree that traveling alone to an area with no cell reception is not smart, and not something I would ever do.

I need to hear more on what happened!

Hahaha! Well, we got married at a resort during the day, and there were a few other events happening after ours. My reception ended at 6, and then we all hung out at the main bar afterwards. I kept my wedding dress on and did not change. I had gone up to the bar to get myself a drink, and since the bartender was busy, it was taking a while. The guy next to me started talking to me, and offered to buy me a drink. I said no, thanks. He just kept talking, telling me that he was there for his FIL's birthday party. Then he said, "You're so beautiful. It's a shame you're married. I would have shown you a really good time." VOMIT. My H must have sensed what was going on, because he was literally at my side within 2 seconds of this comment.

Omg! Lol that's horrible but hilarious!!
Did your H say anything?

He immediately introduced himself to the guy, and held out his hand. I think my H shook his hand pretty hard. The guy left right after that.

kwiksilver · July 2017

Climbingwife's story reminded me of one from my honeymoon (with ex-husband). We had just checked into our hotel and were in the elevator, and a guy in the elevator with us started flirting with me right in front of H! I can't remember what was said (that was many many moons ago) but H was super agitated and I was extremely relieved when we got to our floor. Some people just really don't get it.

kerbohl · July 2017

I'm going to defend the travelling in a bad cell coverage area ... I love camping, and often good campgrounds have very bad cell coverage. I have a local campground I go to regularly that is in the middle of three major cities, and cell reception is minimal - you can text, you can't phone anyone. Never mind the awesome ones that are a bit farther north. I did a road trip with my sister across Canada, and it was really interesting to find out the pockets while driving that have little cell coverage, in populated areas no less. There are areas that you get lucky - if you have Bell, you have coverage, if you have Rogers, you have none, and vice versa. It's getting better, but with Canada being so huge and having the majority of our population along the southern border, service isn't the greatest. And that royally sucks for people like myself who enjoy getting out to campgrounds or road tripping in Canada. Since she was at a cabin, it sounds like she likes similar vacations - why shouldn't she get to travel there just because guys make her feel unsafe? I personally bring a knife with me, though, not for humans per se but because large animals exisit and for useful purposes around a campsite.

I think she might want to try a strategy other than the big headphones - guys might be finding that a conversation starter? I remember thinking that reading on the bus would get guys to leave me alone, but to some book= "this girl wants to be picked up so bad so I should talk to her."

charlotte989875 · July 2017

kerbohl said:

I'm going to defend the travelling in a bad cell coverage area ... I love camping, and often good campgrounds have very bad cell coverage. I have a local campground I go to regularly that is in the middle of three major cities, and cell reception is minimal - you can text, you can't phone anyone. Never mind the awesome ones that are a bit farther north. I did a road trip with my sister across Canada, and it was really interesting to find out the pockets while driving that have little cell coverage, in populated areas no less. There are areas that you get lucky - if you have Bell, you have coverage, if you have Rogers, you have none, and vice versa. It's getting better, but with Canada being so huge and having the majority of our population along the southern border, service isn't the greatest. And that royally sucks for people like myself who enjoy getting out to campgrounds or road tripping in Canada. Since she was at a cabin, it sounds like she likes similar vacations - why shouldn't she get to travel there just because guys make her feel unsafe? I personally bring a knife with me, though, not for humans per se but because large animals exisit and for useful purposes around a campsite.

I think she might want to try a strategy other than the big headphones - guys might be finding that a conversation starter? I remember thinking that reading on the bus would get guys to leave me alone, but to some book= "this girl wants to be picked up so bad so I should talk to her."

I also think there's a difference between traveling to a no cell location by yourself and with another person. I'm not saying she should be able to travel where she wants because there are potentially creepers; she should travel wherever she wishes, but she should also take her surroundings into account and protect herself, especially if she's traveling alone like her post suggests.

And I agree about the animals.

climbingsingle · July 2017

My family and I go camping regularly at a campground with no cell service. But, there's a good number of us. If something were to happen, there are many people to assist/get help/etc. Personally, I would not travel alone to a remote area with no cell service/easily accessible wifi.

MissKittyDanger · July 2017

kerbohl said:

I'm going to defend the travelling in a bad cell coverage area ... I love camping, and often good campgrounds have very bad cell coverage. I have a local campground I go to regularly that is in the middle of three major cities, and cell reception is minimal - you can text, you can't phone anyone. Never mind the awesome ones that are a bit farther north. I did a road trip with my sister across Canada, and it was really interesting to find out the pockets while driving that have little cell coverage, in populated areas no less. There are areas that you get lucky - if you have Bell, you have coverage, if you have Rogers, you have none, and vice versa. It's getting better, but with Canada being so huge and having the majority of our population along the southern border, service isn't the greatest. And that royally sucks for people like myself who enjoy getting out to campgrounds or road tripping in Canada. Since she was at a cabin, it sounds like she likes similar vacations - why shouldn't she get to travel there just because guys make her feel unsafe? I personally bring a knife with me, though, not for humans per se but because large animals exisit and for useful purposes around a campsite.

I think she might want to try a strategy other than the big headphones - guys might be finding that a conversation starter? I remember thinking that reading on the bus would get guys to leave me alone, but to some book= "this girl wants to be picked up so bad so I should talk to her."

I get where you're coming from, however the difference is the LW isn't doing this for enjoyment. She travels for work, so it's not quite the same.

I also read on the bus, and listen to headphones {earbuds but still} I've had the friggen bus driver try and talk to me while I'm wearing headphones! They're not blending with what I'm wearing, at the time they were bright pink.
Then he made an assumption that because I was a female I must be listening to Justin Beiber. I advised him with snark that not every female listens to him, nor should people assume what someone is listening to. /rant

thisismynickname2 · July 2017

What's interesting is that she mentions international travel. Cultural norms do vary. (I went on a school trip to Italy in high school and it was actually recommended we girls wear plain rings on our left hands to make it appear we were married so men would leave us alone.) I sympathize that she's left to her own devices in places where men may be more....forward. But I agree that she should wear a wedding ring. And, what's her definition of "polite?" There are ways to shut down conversations and it sounds like she's not very skilled in that arena.

As a complete sidenote, whenever I read articles about women who get hit on "daily" I feel like the ugliest hag alive because I never get hit on. Even when I was single, picking up men was not a strength. Apparently my RBF is strong. I was once even told I'm "unapproachable." I have no idea what makes one woman give off unapproachable vibes and another give off vibes that get her hit on daily.

VarunaTT · July 2017

She needs to learn how to take up her own space and w/out apologizing for doing so. Resting bitch face isn't an insult to me...it's how I have to function in this world to keep men (I can honestly say I've had very few aggressive experiences with any other gender) at bay. Look like you're walking with a purpose, don't engage in anything but professional conversation, and if a polite "no" doesn't work, the next step is, "I have said no, I am not interested, please leave me alone" firmly and clearly. No smiles, show some teeth, and harden the eyes. I just keep thinking of an article title the other day that I saved, "I Am No Longer Accommodating Men."

short+sassy · July 2017

thisismynickname said:

What's interesting is that she mentions international travel. Cultural norms do vary. (I went on a school trip to Italy in high school and it was actually recommended we girls wear plain rings on our left hands to make it appear we were married so men would leave us alone.) I sympathize that she's left to her own devices in places where men may be more....forward. But I agree that she should wear a wedding ring. And, what's her definition of "polite?" There are ways to shut down conversations and it sounds like she's not very skilled in that arena.

As a complete sidenote, whenever I read articles about women who get hit on "daily" I feel like the ugliest hag alive because I never get hit on. Even when I was single, picking up men was not a strength. Apparently my RBF is strong. I was once even told I'm "unapproachable." I have no idea what makes one woman give off unapproachable vibes and another give off vibes that get her hit on daily.

I caught that part also and was wondering if this might be part of it. In fact, when I mentioned my gorgeous friend, lol, that was why I mentioned that she only travels domestically for work.

It's interesting the "approachable" vs. "unapproachable" comments. Not so much on "hit-ability", though related, but I had a convo with my H once that just blew me away. He swears people are especially nice and more helpful to me because I have an open and friendly face. He was incredulous I had no idea what he was talking about. But it had me asking existential questions, lol.

VarunaTT said:

She needs to learn how to take up her own space and w/out apologizing for doing so. Resting bitch face isn't an insult to me...it's how I have to function in this world to keep men (I can honestly say I've had very few aggressive experiences with any other gender) at bay. Look like you're walking with a purpose, don't engage in anything but professional conversation, and if a polite "no" doesn't work, the next step is, "I have said no, I am not interested, please leave me alone" firmly and clearly. No smiles, show some teeth, and harden the eyes. I just keep thinking of an article title the other day that I saved, "I Am No Longer Accommodating Men."

I do the "walking with a purpose" all the time. The first time I went to NYC, I was by myself and really employed that attitude. I was so proud when someone stopped me to ask for directions, lol.

I'm a "make eye contact and smile" kind of person. If someone hits on me who I am not interested in, I am clear with my response, but I am kind, I use a nice tone, and maintain my smile. Because there is usually nothing creepy about it (talking about my single days) and my attitude is "I'm not going to blame a guy for trying."

If they remain nice, even if it is to say a few more words to me, cool. But if they start becoming pushy...which rarely happened...then it is like you wrote my script and actions @VarunaTT, lol.

justsie · July 2017

thisismynickname said:

What's interesting is that she mentions international travel. Cultural norms do vary. (I went on a school trip to Italy in high school and it was actually recommended we girls wear plain rings on our left hands to make it appear we were married so men would leave us alone.) I sympathize that she's left to her own devices in places where men may be more....forward. But I agree that she should wear a wedding ring. And, what's her definition of "polite?" There are ways to shut down conversations and it sounds like she's not very skilled in that arena.

As a complete sidenote, whenever I read articles about women who get hit on "daily" I feel like the ugliest hag alive because I never get hit on. Even when I was single, picking up men was not a strength. Apparently my RBF is strong. I was once even told I'm "unapproachable." I have no idea what makes one woman give off unapproachable vibes and another give off vibes that get her hit on daily.

Me either, so you are not alone. I saw a study done that measured facial expressions with technology. They noted that the expression that was marked as "RBF" was actually being translated as "contempt" by the technology reading that expression. Knowing that, I can see why RBF gets a bad rap, event though I also have it.

CharmedPam · July 2017

thisismynickname said:

What's interesting is that she mentions international travel. Cultural norms do vary. (I went on a school trip to Italy in high school and it was actually recommended we girls wear plain rings on our left hands to make it appear we were married so men would leave us alone.) I sympathize that she's left to her own devices in places where men may be more....forward. But I agree that she should wear a wedding ring. And, what's her definition of "polite?" There are ways to shut down conversations and it sounds like she's not very skilled in that arena.

As a complete sidenote, whenever I read articles about women who get hit on "daily" I feel like the ugliest hag alive because I never get hit on. Even when I was single, picking up men was not a strength. Apparently my RBF is strong. I was once even told I'm "unapproachable." I have no idea what makes one woman give off unapproachable vibes and another give off vibes that get her hit on daily.

Glad you said it. I was thinking this too!

kerbohl · July 2017

MissKittyDanger said:

kerbohl said:

I'm going to defend the travelling in a bad cell coverage area ... I love camping, and often good campgrounds have very bad cell coverage. I have a local campground I go to regularly that is in the middle of three major cities, and cell reception is minimal - you can text, you can't phone anyone. Never mind the awesome ones that are a bit farther north. I did a road trip with my sister across Canada, and it was really interesting to find out the pockets while driving that have little cell coverage, in populated areas no less. There are areas that you get lucky - if you have Bell, you have coverage, if you have Rogers, you have none, and vice versa. It's getting better, but with Canada being so huge and having the majority of our population along the southern border, service isn't the greatest. And that royally sucks for people like myself who enjoy getting out to campgrounds or road tripping in Canada. Since she was at a cabin, it sounds like she likes similar vacations - why shouldn't she get to travel there just because guys make her feel unsafe? I personally bring a knife with me, though, not for humans per se but because large animals exisit and for useful purposes around a campsite.

I think she might want to try a strategy other than the big headphones - guys might be finding that a conversation starter? I remember thinking that reading on the bus would get guys to leave me alone, but to some book= "this girl wants to be picked up so bad so I should talk to her."

I get where you're coming from, however the difference is the LW isn't doing this for enjoyment. She travels for work, so it's not quite the same.

I also read on the bus, and listen to headphones {earbuds but still} I've had the friggen bus driver try and talk to me while I'm wearing headphones! They're not blending with what I'm wearing, at the time they were bright pink.
Then he made an assumption that because I was a female I must be listening to Justin Beiber. I advised him with snark that not every female listens to him, nor should people assume what someone is listening to. /rant

Is she only travelling for work? She mentions that she works in tech and deals with this kind of stuff and doesn't want to deal with this in her free time. I got the impression that these were personal trips since they are "free time", but could also be business trips with free time with them. But what tech company would send its employees to work places with no cell reception? All the tech companies I know give their employees phones so that they can contact them at all times - wouldn't this reduce productivity?

Ah, Justin Bieber assumptions. How about the "how's that romance novel" question when you are clearly reading a textbook? Because women only read romance novels, of course.

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