Wedding Woes

Stop advising him or buying his work.

Dear Prudence,
How can I help a college-age relative understand that before he self-publishes another book—he currently has four—he desperately needs to have the manuscripts proofread and edited by someone with high-level grammar skills? The writing is cringeworthy. The theme of the books is notable, but you cannot get through to the theme because you cannot get past the incorrect punctuation, misused words, etc. The books are available for purchase online and other relatives have seen them. We are all proud of what he is doing, but not how he is doing it. I tried sending him an email in which I mentioned that such notable writers as Ernest Hemingway and Tom Wolfe thought it wise to be guided by an editor. My words might as well have been struck with a sharp red pencil.

I have a bachelor’s in journalism and have worked as a newspaper reporter, which he well knows, along with decades spent in the business world. One thing that a journalism professor said to our class was, “Don’t fall in love with your words.” I understand that it is hard to edit yourself. Once you have crafted what you just know is the most superb set of words in the English language, how could you or anyone else find a reason to cut them down or alter them in any way? I tried providing links to online proofreading and editing sites, but I think I might have offended him. I also offered to proofread future manuscripts. His only response was to ask when I plan to buy his most recent book. Do you have any suggestions as to how to help him help himself?
—A Cringing Aunt

Re: Stop advising him or buying his work.

  • mrsconn23 said:

    Dear Prudence,
    How can I help a college-age relative understand that before he self-publishes another book—he currently has four—he desperately needs to have the manuscripts proofread and edited by someone with high-level grammar skills? The writing is cringeworthy. The theme of the books is notable, but you cannot get through to the theme because you cannot get past the incorrect punctuation, misused words, etc. The books are available for purchase online and other relatives have seen them. We are all proud of what he is doing, but not how he is doing it. I tried sending him an email in which I mentioned that such notable writers as Ernest Hemingway and Tom Wolfe thought it wise to be guided by an editor. My words might as well have been struck with a sharp red pencil.

    I have a bachelor’s in journalism and have worked as a newspaper reporter, which he well knows, along with decades spent in the business world. One thing that a journalism professor said to our class was, “Don’t fall in love with your words.” I understand that it is hard to edit yourself. Once you have crafted what you just know is the most superb set of words in the English language, how could you or anyone else find a reason to cut them down or alter them in any way? I tried providing links to online proofreading and editing sites, but I think I might have offended him. I also offered to proofread future manuscripts. His only response was to ask when I plan to buy his most recent book. Do you have any suggestions as to how to help him help himself?
    —A Cringing Aunt


    This worked for E.L. James and the 50 Shades series....could work for him?

  •  "I understand that it is hard to edit yourself. Once you have crafted what you just know is the most superb set of words in the English language, how could you or anyone else find a reason to cut them down or alter them in any way?"

    ahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    I'm sorry, but what even is that nonsense? I don't know *any* actual writer who feels that way. 

    Just ignore him. Let him put his stupid trash out there. Why does it matter so much to you how he runs his career? The market will either take care of it, or he'll make a shitton of money and get a bunch of movies made. Either way, he's not going to listen to you. 

    (Also, whose family actually reads their novels? Or is this another thing that I think is normal, but everyone else will give me sad eyes and be all, "Cate, your family is the fucking worst."? )
    image
  • Maybe develop more hobbies for yourself?
  • If you offered assistance and his only response was when you plan to take out your credit card again I'd have to have some well-crafted responses at the tip of my tongue to bean dip.

    White lie? "I'm in the middle of a huge book right now by James Comey." 

    Bean dip, "Oh I hadn't thought about it.   Have you tried parasailing?   We're headed to the lake and thought I might give it a shot." 

    It sounds like he doesn't want help so I would just attempt to dodge the questions.  
  • You have done a lot to already show this relative the right way to do things.  So far, all he wants is your money (from buying the book).  I don't think there is much more you can do.  But don't buy the book!  Just stop reading them from here on out.  If relative asks you what you thought of latest book or when you are buying the latest book, don't lie, but be sensitive.  "Relative,  I am proud that you have taken up writing and I wish you success.  But I am unable to read your books any further.  I'm sorry to say that the grammar needs improvement and it is difficult to read through the books as written.  As I have offered before, I'm happy to help you with the grammar on your next manuscript."

    Relative might not like to hear this, but you seem to have already offended him already.  Sometimes the truth hurts, but this may hold him back from future jobs if these books are found by future employers or if he is providing these as sample writings.

  • kvrunskvruns member
    First Anniversary First Comment 5 Love Its First Answer
    This sounds like someone I know. He fancied himself a writer/reporter and is always posting these sports stadium reviews and they are awful. The same type of errors described in the letter are in his posts and I always wonder what other people think if/when they read it. 
  • Good lord, take the hint and back the hell off.
  • banana468 said:
    Maybe develop more hobbies for yourself?
    The more I think of this the more I wonder if the LW is really just upset that she's not being asked for her input.


    Such a good point!

    I used to work in publishing, and a relative wanted to publish a book. I offered advice on best ways to find the right publishing company. Relative refused. I didn't ask twice, and didn't take offense, just thought it was a little odd.


  • Ro041Ro041 member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    mrsconn23 said:

    Dear Prudence,
    How can I help a college-age relative understand that before he self-publishes another book—he currently has four—he desperately needs to have the manuscripts proofread and edited by someone with high-level grammar skills? The writing is cringeworthy. The theme of the books is notable, but you cannot get through to the theme because you cannot get past the incorrect punctuation, misused words, etc. The books are available for purchase online and other relatives have seen them. We are all proud of what he is doing, but not how he is doing it. I tried sending him an email in which I mentioned that such notable writers as Ernest Hemingway and Tom Wolfe thought it wise to be guided by an editor. My words might as well have been struck with a sharp red pencil.

    I have a bachelor’s in journalism and have worked as a newspaper reporter, which he well knows, along with decades spent in the business world. One thing that a journalism professor said to our class was, “Don’t fall in love with your words.” I understand that it is hard to edit yourself. Once you have crafted what you just know is the most superb set of words in the English language, how could you or anyone else find a reason to cut them down or alter them in any way? I tried providing links to online proofreading and editing sites, but I think I might have offended him. I also offered to proofread future manuscripts. His only response was to ask when I plan to buy his most recent book. Do you have any suggestions as to how to help him help himself?
    —A Cringing Aunt

    You've tried three different things and he's rejected them all. You've done enough, mrs.conn. Find something else to worry about.
    @mrsconn23 didn't write this.  What am I missing here?

    I agree with Star and Banana that Aunt is probably just offended that he isn't taking her super sweet advice since she fancies herself an expert.

  • Ro041 said:
    mrsconn23 said:

    Dear Prudence,
    How can I help a college-age relative understand that before he self-publishes another book—he currently has four—he desperately needs to have the manuscripts proofread and edited by someone with high-level grammar skills? The writing is cringeworthy. The theme of the books is notable, but you cannot get through to the theme because you cannot get past the incorrect punctuation, misused words, etc. The books are available for purchase online and other relatives have seen them. We are all proud of what he is doing, but not how he is doing it. I tried sending him an email in which I mentioned that such notable writers as Ernest Hemingway and Tom Wolfe thought it wise to be guided by an editor. My words might as well have been struck with a sharp red pencil.

    I have a bachelor’s in journalism and have worked as a newspaper reporter, which he well knows, along with decades spent in the business world. One thing that a journalism professor said to our class was, “Don’t fall in love with your words.” I understand that it is hard to edit yourself. Once you have crafted what you just know is the most superb set of words in the English language, how could you or anyone else find a reason to cut them down or alter them in any way? I tried providing links to online proofreading and editing sites, but I think I might have offended him. I also offered to proofread future manuscripts. His only response was to ask when I plan to buy his most recent book. Do you have any suggestions as to how to help him help himself?
    —A Cringing Aunt

    You've tried three different things and he's rejected them all. You've done enough, mrs.conn. Find something else to worry about.
    @mrsconn23 didn't write this.  What am I missing here?

    I agree with Star and Banana that Aunt is probably just offended that he isn't taking her super sweet advice since she fancies herself an expert.
    It's a joke. I'm poking fun at the non-regs who come in and don't know these are Dear Prudie letters and think mrs.conn has this many problems.

    Am I nuts or did you used to have a period in your name, @mrsconn23?
    Image result for someecard betting someone half your shit youll love them forever
  • Ro041Ro041 member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    @ShesSoCold - ahhhhh I was so confused because I know you are a reg and I couldn't believe you thought MrsConn was the LW.  I didn't get the joke.  My bad!  (I don't think she has ever had a period in her name, though).  :) 

  • ei34ei34 member
    First Anniversary First Comment First Answer 5 Love Its
    Ro041 said:
    mrsconn23 said:

    Dear Prudence,
    How can I help a college-age relative understand that before he self-publishes another book—he currently has four—he desperately needs to have the manuscripts proofread and edited by someone with high-level grammar skills? The writing is cringeworthy. The theme of the books is notable, but you cannot get through to the theme because you cannot get past the incorrect punctuation, misused words, etc. The books are available for purchase online and other relatives have seen them. We are all proud of what he is doing, but not how he is doing it. I tried sending him an email in which I mentioned that such notable writers as Ernest Hemingway and Tom Wolfe thought it wise to be guided by an editor. My words might as well have been struck with a sharp red pencil.

    I have a bachelor’s in journalism and have worked as a newspaper reporter, which he well knows, along with decades spent in the business world. One thing that a journalism professor said to our class was, “Don’t fall in love with your words.” I understand that it is hard to edit yourself. Once you have crafted what you just know is the most superb set of words in the English language, how could you or anyone else find a reason to cut them down or alter them in any way? I tried providing links to online proofreading and editing sites, but I think I might have offended him. I also offered to proofread future manuscripts. His only response was to ask when I plan to buy his most recent book. Do you have any suggestions as to how to help him help himself?
    —A Cringing Aunt

    You've tried three different things and he's rejected them all. You've done enough, mrs.conn. Find something else to worry about.
    @mrsconn23 didn't write this.  What am I missing here?

    I agree with Star and Banana that Aunt is probably just offended that he isn't taking her super sweet advice since she fancies herself an expert.
    I think @she@ShesSoCold was being sassy 

    Agree with others that LW has tried a few different ways.  Time to stop letting this bother you LW.
  • Ro041 said:
    mrsconn23 said:

    Dear Prudence,
    How can I help a college-age relative understand that before he self-publishes another book—he currently has four—he desperately needs to have the manuscripts proofread and edited by someone with high-level grammar skills? The writing is cringeworthy. The theme of the books is notable, but you cannot get through to the theme because you cannot get past the incorrect punctuation, misused words, etc. The books are available for purchase online and other relatives have seen them. We are all proud of what he is doing, but not how he is doing it. I tried sending him an email in which I mentioned that such notable writers as Ernest Hemingway and Tom Wolfe thought it wise to be guided by an editor. My words might as well have been struck with a sharp red pencil.

    I have a bachelor’s in journalism and have worked as a newspaper reporter, which he well knows, along with decades spent in the business world. One thing that a journalism professor said to our class was, “Don’t fall in love with your words.” I understand that it is hard to edit yourself. Once you have crafted what you just know is the most superb set of words in the English language, how could you or anyone else find a reason to cut them down or alter them in any way? I tried providing links to online proofreading and editing sites, but I think I might have offended him. I also offered to proofread future manuscripts. His only response was to ask when I plan to buy his most recent book. Do you have any suggestions as to how to help him help himself?
    —A Cringing Aunt

    You've tried three different things and he's rejected them all. You've done enough, mrs.conn. Find something else to worry about.
    @mrsconn23 didn't write this.  What am I missing here?

    I agree with Star and Banana that Aunt is probably just offended that he isn't taking her super sweet advice since she fancies herself an expert.
    It's a joke. I'm poking fun at the non-regs who come in and don't know these are Dear Prudie letters and think mrs.conn has this many problems.

    Am I nuts or did you used to have a period in your name, @mrsconn23?
    I did, but I removed it.  It makes it easier to tag me without it. 
  • I'm in the tough love camp too.

    Just as a recent example, my mom asked me to look at her personal art website to check for any usage errors. Some of the grammar made me cringe a bit because she also works professionally in marketing and I know she normally has great grammar. I said, "Your site is pretty conversational; I'd suggest some minor grammar corrections." She replied, "Well I'm going for conversational and this site isn't intended to be corporate." My reply, along with a tracked-changes markup, was, "Well, even future employers may see this so it still needs to be polished to show off all your skills." (At her age she's really not looking for future employment, but she's not completely retired, so.)

    Always put your best foot forward, or else you're just shooting yourself in the foot. 
    ________________________________


  • Now my snarky side is coming out, lol.  I'm wondering if the nephew really has a "love of the craft" or is using it as a sideline business to milk his friends and family for money, through guilt.  He even asked his aunt when she was going to buy his most recent book!

    Let's pretend for a moment that I self-published a book and am selling it on Amazon.   If my aunt was excited for me and told me she was going right over to Amazon to buy it, my response would be, "No, don't do that!  You're my aunt and I'm glad you want to read it.  I'll mail you an autographed copy."  Even easier if it is in e-book form.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • Now my snarky side is coming out, lol.  I'm wondering if the nephew really has a "love of the craft" or is using it as a sideline business to milk his friends and family for money, through guilt.  He even asked his aunt when she was going to buy his most recent book!

    Let's pretend for a moment that I self-published a book and am selling it on Amazon.   If my aunt was excited for me and told me she was going right over to Amazon to buy it, my response would be, "No, don't do that!  You're my aunt and I'm glad you want to read it.  I'll mail you an autographed copy."  Even easier if it is in e-book form.

    So, this is actually the difference between good writers and bad. Good writers work the craft and try to improve and take a lot of criticism (constructive and not) with an eye to improvement. Bad writers simply spam everyone they've ever met (or befriended on social media) with buy links. 

    The guy's not going to ever get better. He's not a writer. He's an asshole who thinks everyone can write a book. 
    image
  • Now my snarky side is coming out, lol.  I'm wondering if the nephew really has a "love of the craft" or is using it as a sideline business to milk his friends and family for money, through guilt.  He even asked his aunt when she was going to buy his most recent book!

    Let's pretend for a moment that I self-published a book and am selling it on Amazon.   If my aunt was excited for me and told me she was going right over to Amazon to buy it, my response would be, "No, don't do that!  You're my aunt and I'm glad you want to read it.  I'll mail you an autographed copy."  Even easier if it is in e-book form.

    So I kind of differ here. One of my friends just self-published a novel. (With editing and grammar.) The publishing wasn't cheap, and selling all the printed copies will barely net her a tiny profit. I wouldn't have expected or even let her give it to me for free. Autographed, you bet. But I wanted to at least pay for the paper and ink for my copy. If she gave a free copy to every friend and family member, she'd be operating at a loss. I don't think the author should be pushing it on F&F, but I also don't think he should be expected to give copies away for free.  

    The LW should just leave it alone, and when asked tell nephew that she didn't enjoy the prior novels and that's why she won't be buying/reading the rest of the series. 
  • Now my snarky side is coming out, lol.  I'm wondering if the nephew really has a "love of the craft" or is using it as a sideline business to milk his friends and family for money, through guilt.  He even asked his aunt when she was going to buy his most recent book!

    Let's pretend for a moment that I self-published a book and am selling it on Amazon.   If my aunt was excited for me and told me she was going right over to Amazon to buy it, my response would be, "No, don't do that!  You're my aunt and I'm glad you want to read it.  I'll mail you an autographed copy."  Even easier if it is in e-book form.

    So I kind of differ here. One of my friends just self-published a novel. (With editing and grammar.) The publishing wasn't cheap, and selling all the printed copies will barely net her a tiny profit. I wouldn't have expected or even let her give it to me for free. Autographed, you bet. But I wanted to at least pay for the paper and ink for my copy. If she gave a free copy to every friend and family member, she'd be operating at a loss. I don't think the author should be pushing it on F&F, but I also don't think he should be expected to give copies away for free.  

    The LW should just leave it alone, and when asked tell nephew that she didn't enjoy the prior novels and that's why she won't be buying/reading the rest of the series. 
    This is what I was thinking too. If everyone who was building a living in this way (authors, artists, hairstylist, makeup artists, etc), they'd never get anywhere. 
    Image result for someecard betting someone half your shit youll love them forever
  • Now my snarky side is coming out, lol.  I'm wondering if the nephew really has a "love of the craft" or is using it as a sideline business to milk his friends and family for money, through guilt.  He even asked his aunt when she was going to buy his most recent book!

    Let's pretend for a moment that I self-published a book and am selling it on Amazon.   If my aunt was excited for me and told me she was going right over to Amazon to buy it, my response would be, "No, don't do that!  You're my aunt and I'm glad you want to read it.  I'll mail you an autographed copy."  Even easier if it is in e-book form.

    So I kind of differ here. One of my friends just self-published a novel. (With editing and grammar.) The publishing wasn't cheap, and selling all the printed copies will barely net her a tiny profit. I wouldn't have expected or even let her give it to me for free. Autographed, you bet. But I wanted to at least pay for the paper and ink for my copy. If she gave a free copy to every friend and family member, she'd be operating at a loss. I don't think the author should be pushing it on F&F, but I also don't think he should be expected to give copies away for free.  

    The LW should just leave it alone, and when asked tell nephew that she didn't enjoy the prior novels and that's why she won't be buying/reading the rest of the series. 
    I definitely agree that a F&F shouldn't expect that nor should an author feel obligated to do that.  TBH, I was visualizing the aunt I am closest to, when I wrote that.  I could see where the closeness of the relationship would definitely be a factor and I'll give the nephew more slack.  Though only on that point, lol. 
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  • I suspect this nephew is writing these books more as an attention or money grab than because he truly loves to write. He's not interested in improving because it makes him feel important enough to tell people he's written x number of books, whether they are any good or not. 

    LW needs to quit making this her problem. 
    image
  • Ro041 said:
    mrsconn23 said:

    Dear Prudence,
    How can I help a college-age relative understand that before he self-publishes another book—he currently has four—he desperately needs to have the manuscripts proofread and edited by someone with high-level grammar skills? The writing is cringeworthy. The theme of the books is notable, but you cannot get through to the theme because you cannot get past the incorrect punctuation, misused words, etc. The books are available for purchase online and other relatives have seen them. We are all proud of what he is doing, but not how he is doing it. I tried sending him an email in which I mentioned that such notable writers as Ernest Hemingway and Tom Wolfe thought it wise to be guided by an editor. My words might as well have been struck with a sharp red pencil.

    I have a bachelor’s in journalism and have worked as a newspaper reporter, which he well knows, along with decades spent in the business world. One thing that a journalism professor said to our class was, “Don’t fall in love with your words.” I understand that it is hard to edit yourself. Once you have crafted what you just know is the most superb set of words in the English language, how could you or anyone else find a reason to cut them down or alter them in any way? I tried providing links to online proofreading and editing sites, but I think I might have offended him. I also offered to proofread future manuscripts. His only response was to ask when I plan to buy his most recent book. Do you have any suggestions as to how to help him help himself?
    —A Cringing Aunt

    You've tried three different things and he's rejected them all. You've done enough, mrs.conn. Find something else to worry about.
    @mrsconn23 didn't write this.  What am I missing here?

    I agree with Star and Banana that Aunt is probably just offended that he isn't taking her super sweet advice since she fancies herself an expert.
    I think @she@ShesSoCold was being sassy 

    Agree with others that LW has tried a few different ways.  Time to stop letting this bother you LW.
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