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Wedding Woes

H's 'inappropriate' best friend

Dear Prudence,

My husband has a close female friend. I don’t mind that he’s friends with other women, but I don’t like her. Recently I learned she’d been talking to him about “sugaring” (an alternative to bikini waxing), and I don’t like that she’s talking like that with my husband. It led to our first big fight, and we’ve been married for two years without really quarreling. I told him he needs boundaries with her. He was against my confronting her, saying, “That’s just how she is.” But if she really was his friend, it shouldn’t be a big deal to respect boundaries. Which leads me to think she must talk this way to him all the time. We fought for a week, and finally he said he would stop being friends with her. But they go to meetups together, and he’s not going to be able to avoid her. I don’t even know if I believe he would stop being friends with her after putting up such a fight.

I contacted her to tell her I thought what she said was inappropriate, but I’d like to get to know her better since she’s my husband’s best friend. My husband didn’t seem happy that we made plans, but we went out for drinks anyways. I don’t really get why he likes her. She’s the total opposite of me. She’s very high maintenance, and I just can’t find any common ground with her. She has no interest in trying to be friends with me. At this point I’m trying to ignore her existence, and I told my husband never to mention her name to me. This is a thorn in the side of our marriage that will soon cause an infection. I brought up couples therapy, but I think he thinks that’s a last resort for failing couples. I brought up getting my own therapist who can help me cope with this. I’ve talked to friends and family who have taken my side. I love him and don’t want him to see me as somebody who is controlling. But I want my feelings validated, and I can’t ignore this. If I’m wrong and dealing with this in the wrong way, that’s fine. I think talking to somebody and getting help will help me better deal with the situation and grow from this experience and to be a better person for us. I also think he’s afraid that somebody will tell him he’s wrong. He told one of his buddies what happened in our fight, and I heard it from his wife and that wasn’t the story at all. So either my husband lied about it, or his buddy was downplaying it. I’m really at wits’ end and emotional and upset. I know this is a lot.

—Inappropriate Best Friend

Re: H's 'inappropriate' best friend

  • There's a lot to unpack here.

    You knew that your H was friends with this person before you were married.   You must have met her before you two tied the knot.   The time to approach issues with her was LONG before you said "I do".

    What was inappropriate about the discussion?   If this is a best friend is she perhaps comfortable to have intimate topics of conversation?  Was she showing your H where the sugar would go or is she discussing it in a matter of fact way? 

    I think you have a lot of insecurities here and trust issues that abound with your H.   If your answer is that you need to control him and his friendships then there's no way your marriage will work.   You need to either trust that your H can have friendships with women and to trust that he will respect his marriage vows OR you don't.      You were out of line to ask him to not mention her name to you and I'm finding it hard to see what boundaries she isn't respecting here.  
  • I think the friend was inappropriate, but I don't even talk to my female BFFs about waxing and sugaring!  

    But, there are so many opposite things happening in this letter.  LW says they want H to establish some boundaries with the friend, but then says the H will never be friends with her again.  

    Then the wife tells the friend they were inappropriate but then wants to meet up and be friends with the friend too.  Gee - I don't know why the friend had no interest is trying to be friends with you!  And of course, they didn't have a good time!  LW already hates this person just by the history between the H and the friend.  LW would never truly give this friend a chance!  Her mind is already made up to hate this friend!

    I do think counseling could help and I would suggest couples counseling so that they can learn to communicate better.  They had a week long fight over something another person told to LWs H and the H then told to LW.  I think LW could benefit from counseling herself too.

    I also don't think the H is lying about the fight to his buddy, I think he is downplaying it because his friend has always been this way and its just now that his wife is upset with it.
  • Yeah, this isn't going to work. LW is so all over the place. She wants H to cut this woman off, or enforce boundaries, or carry on a secret friendship. She's checking in with H's friend's wives to hear how the story of their fight came out. That's ... a lot. 

    Counselling for LW seems like a good idea. She's obviously jealous of this relationship, and she needs to figure out how to deal with that and actually talk to her husband in a productive manner. 

    I will say that I find waxing/sugaring to be an odd topic to discuss with a man friend, unless he's got some sort of expert knowledge on the topic. Is she asking for advice on where to go/which type to use? Or asking what he thinks is attractive? The latter verges into inappropriate to me. 
  • Yeah, this isn't going to work. LW is so all over the place. She wants H to cut this woman off, or enforce boundaries, or carry on a secret friendship. She's checking in with H's friend's wives to hear how the story of their fight came out. That's ... a lot. 

    Counselling for LW seems like a good idea. She's obviously jealous of this relationship, and she needs to figure out how to deal with that and actually talk to her husband in a productive manner. 

    I will say that I find waxing/sugaring to be an odd topic to discuss with a man friend, unless he's got some sort of expert knowledge on the topic. Is she asking for advice on where to go/which type to use? Or asking what he thinks is attractive? The latter verges into inappropriate to me. 
    It seems weird but I'm also seeing that the LW seems to almost look for a fight.   So how much was discussed here? 

    Was it, "Oh I hate in grown hairs.   I don't shave anymore and go to the salon to get sugared instead.  It works much better." ?   Or did this start to look like the scene in National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation where Clark turns to Rusty and says, "Can't see the line can you Russ?" all while Mary the lingerie lady is showing the line of her high rise panties? 

    And if this is a guy who is my best friend I would possibly talk about my unwanted chin/face/bikini line hairs for a split second.   If the conversation started to get into "What kind do you prefer?  Oh that's what I HAVE!" then I agree this is a friend who is so far over the line that the line is a dot to her.  

    The issue I have is that the LW seems to be so all over the place that I have to shake my head and figure out what's going on and that makes me inclined to take the side of anyone but her.
  • I think LW is overreacting. I also find her insistence on going out with this woman, and then determining she's nothing like her is just really strange. 

    The H is wrong to insist they don't need counseling. They absolutely do. 
  • I think this is another one where everyone is wrong. 

    LW is wrong for going from setting boundaries to never talking to this woman again to contacting her out of the blue to confront here. 

    Husband is wrong for not taking her concerns seriously to begin with and refusing counseling because they clearly need it. 

    And the friend is wrong because talking to someone’s husband about sugaring/waxing/whatever, IMO, crosses a line.Everyone is wrong here. 
  • I think this is another one where everyone is wrong. 

    LW is wrong for going from setting boundaries to never talking to this woman again to contacting her out of the blue to confront here. 

    Husband is wrong for not taking her concerns seriously to begin with and refusing counseling because they clearly need it. 

    And the friend is wrong because talking to someone’s husband about sugaring/waxing/whatever, IMO, crosses a line.Everyone is wrong here. 
    This. 

    Also, I think a huge component missing here is context.  Because I would tell a dude friend about waxing or whatever if the content fit into the conversation.  I would never walk up to a guy friend (or any friend) and be all, "I just got my Brazilian!"  But if we were talking about male/female grooming habits and hair removal came up in that context, I wouldn't shy away from being all, "Yeah, waxing hurts! I've had it done." or whatever.  But I also imagine I probably wouldn't be having those conversations outside of a group setting, so...IDK? 

  • mrsconn23 said:
    I think this is another one where everyone is wrong. 

    LW is wrong for going from setting boundaries to never talking to this woman again to contacting her out of the blue to confront here. 

    Husband is wrong for not taking her concerns seriously to begin with and refusing counseling because they clearly need it. 

    And the friend is wrong because talking to someone’s husband about sugaring/waxing/whatever, IMO, crosses a line.Everyone is wrong here. 
    This. 

    Also, I think a huge component missing here is context.  Because I would tell a dude friend about waxing or whatever if the content fit into the conversation.  I would never walk up to a guy friend (or any friend) and be all, "I just got my Brazilian!"  But if we were talking about male/female grooming habits and hair removal came up in that context, I wouldn't shy away from being all, "Yeah, waxing hurts! I've had it done." or whatever.  But I also imagine I probably wouldn't be having those conversations outside of a group setting, so...IDK? 

    Exactly! I have a hard time thinking of how this comes up over text? A general group convo, sure. Two people texting, eh something is weird here. 
  • mrsconn23 said:
    I think this is another one where everyone is wrong. 

    LW is wrong for going from setting boundaries to never talking to this woman again to contacting her out of the blue to confront here. 

    Husband is wrong for not taking her concerns seriously to begin with and refusing counseling because they clearly need it. 

    And the friend is wrong because talking to someone’s husband about sugaring/waxing/whatever, IMO, crosses a line.Everyone is wrong here. 
    This. 

    Also, I think a huge component missing here is context.  Because I would tell a dude friend about waxing or whatever if the content fit into the conversation.  I would never walk up to a guy friend (or any friend) and be all, "I just got my Brazilian!"  But if we were talking about male/female grooming habits and hair removal came up in that context, I wouldn't shy away from being all, "Yeah, waxing hurts! I've had it done." or whatever.  But I also imagine I probably wouldn't be having those conversations outside of a group setting, so...IDK? 

    That's where I am.

    Is she going over the line or just being matter of fact with what she does?  The LW went immediately into this tirade about boundaries and without more info I wonder if this woman will always be wrong and inappropriate in her eyes. 
  • I would potentially find it odd for the friend to bring up sugaring but, overall, NBD.  I could see it in the context of they are chit-chatting about their day or upcoming plans.  But, sure, it does depend on context.

    The problem is how way blown out of proportion this became.  Even if her H thought her request was silly, it's also a small ask to request he avoid/re-direct conversations that are of a more private nature with this friend.

    And they even involved another couple into this fight?  Seriously?  Though I suppose that is a good deterrent for the friend to not overshare.  Now that multiple people in their friend group know all about her personal grooming habits, lol.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
  • OMG.  I was just re-reading this and was slapped in the face at how much LW sounds like my former friend, Kim (not real name but using K is too easy to confuse right now).

    Kim (who blocked me with no warning, but I suspect it's b/c I drew some boundaries with her relationship issues and our friendship and she didn't like it.  That's her choice, but the sudden ditching is still somewhat painful), in the 4 years I knew her, had at least 4 relationships, most a year and some, where the man had a female BFF that she was jealous of and eventually led to their breakup.

    So now, I just want to tell LW's husband to run.  :smiley:
  • So re-reading this and a few things.

    1 - sugaring is a type of waxing, not necessarily bikini, so I'm curious if LW knew it was bikini specifically {i've had my legs sugar waxed}

    2 - i had a male friend when M and I were first dating, and my male friend would crash at my place. I was pretty up front and M wasn't thrilled but eventually it ended {my friend changed jobs} So I'm wondering if LW's spouse hasn't been very up front about stuff with their friend?
  • So re-reading this and a few things.

    1 - sugaring is a type of waxing, not necessarily bikini, so I'm curious if LW knew it was bikini specifically {i've had my legs sugar waxed}

    2 - i had a male friend when M and I were first dating, and my male friend would crash at my place. I was pretty up front and M wasn't thrilled but eventually it ended {my friend changed jobs} So I'm wondering if LW's spouse hasn't been very up front about stuff with their friend?
    I had my lip sugared.   There's really nothing sexy about telling someone that you have enough upper lip hair that you have a 5 o'clock shadow.  (Now I get lazy and shave in the shower).     

    DH was a friend of mine for 5 years before we started dating.   His former roommates and I are all friends and maybe not BEST friends but I wouldn't hesitate to call any of them for a place to crash or a friendly ear.   

    That the LW is actually involving others in this AND didn't mention the type of discussion continues to make me think that she's like a young Billy Crystal thinking that men and women can't be friends.   So many people aren't handling this appropriately but the LW is appearing to manufacture drama. 


  • banana468 said:
    So re-reading this and a few things.

    1 - sugaring is a type of waxing, not necessarily bikini, so I'm curious if LW knew it was bikini specifically {i've had my legs sugar waxed}

    2 - i had a male friend when M and I were first dating, and my male friend would crash at my place. I was pretty up front and M wasn't thrilled but eventually it ended {my friend changed jobs} So I'm wondering if LW's spouse hasn't been very up front about stuff with their friend?
    I had my lip sugared.   There's really nothing sexy about telling someone that you have enough upper lip hair that you have a 5 o'clock shadow.  (Now I get lazy and shave in the shower).     

    DH was a friend of mine for 5 years before we started dating.   His former roommates and I are all friends and maybe not BEST friends but I wouldn't hesitate to call any of them for a place to crash or a friendly ear.   

    That the LW is actually involving others in this AND didn't mention the type of discussion continues to make me think that she's like a young Billy Crystal thinking that men and women can't be friends.   So many people aren't handling this appropriately but the LW is appearing to manufacture drama. 
    "When Harry Met Sally"
    I definitely see where you're coming from, but there's a possibility that LW's spouse is innocent and the friend is just not - or naturally flirty, which many women are not okay with.
  • banana468 said:
    So re-reading this and a few things.

    1 - sugaring is a type of waxing, not necessarily bikini, so I'm curious if LW knew it was bikini specifically {i've had my legs sugar waxed}

    2 - i had a male friend when M and I were first dating, and my male friend would crash at my place. I was pretty up front and M wasn't thrilled but eventually it ended {my friend changed jobs} So I'm wondering if LW's spouse hasn't been very up front about stuff with their friend?
    I had my lip sugared.   There's really nothing sexy about telling someone that you have enough upper lip hair that you have a 5 o'clock shadow.  (Now I get lazy and shave in the shower).     

    DH was a friend of mine for 5 years before we started dating.   His former roommates and I are all friends and maybe not BEST friends but I wouldn't hesitate to call any of them for a place to crash or a friendly ear.   

    That the LW is actually involving others in this AND didn't mention the type of discussion continues to make me think that she's like a young Billy Crystal thinking that men and women can't be friends.   So many people aren't handling this appropriately but the LW is appearing to manufacture drama. 
    "When Harry Met Sally"
    I definitely see where you're coming from, but there's a possibility that LW's spouse is innocent and the friend is just not - or naturally flirty, which many women are not okay with.
    That is certainly a possibility.   The friend may be flirtatious and she could cross the line.

    The issues though are:
    -LW has confronted this woman herself based on what she's heard from her husband to put this woman in her place.   What a way to emasculate your husband!
    -LW has turned her private conversations with her husband public by asking friends and family to be judge and jury of her version of the story and when her husband tells his version of the story it's "Not the story".  

    This is why NONE of them are handling things well.   None of them are doing what grown ups do.   But her goal isn't just to fight for her marriage.   She wants to control her husband.  
  • banana468 said:
    banana468 said:
    So re-reading this and a few things.

    1 - sugaring is a type of waxing, not necessarily bikini, so I'm curious if LW knew it was bikini specifically {i've had my legs sugar waxed}

    2 - i had a male friend when M and I were first dating, and my male friend would crash at my place. I was pretty up front and M wasn't thrilled but eventually it ended {my friend changed jobs} So I'm wondering if LW's spouse hasn't been very up front about stuff with their friend?
    I had my lip sugared.   There's really nothing sexy about telling someone that you have enough upper lip hair that you have a 5 o'clock shadow.  (Now I get lazy and shave in the shower).     

    DH was a friend of mine for 5 years before we started dating.   His former roommates and I are all friends and maybe not BEST friends but I wouldn't hesitate to call any of them for a place to crash or a friendly ear.   

    That the LW is actually involving others in this AND didn't mention the type of discussion continues to make me think that she's like a young Billy Crystal thinking that men and women can't be friends.   So many people aren't handling this appropriately but the LW is appearing to manufacture drama. 
    "When Harry Met Sally"
    I definitely see where you're coming from, but there's a possibility that LW's spouse is innocent and the friend is just not - or naturally flirty, which many women are not okay with.
    That is certainly a possibility.   The friend may be flirtatious and she could cross the line.

    The issues though are:
    -LW has confronted this woman herself based on what she's heard from her husband to put this woman in her place.   What a way to emasculate your husband!
    -LW has turned her private conversations with her husband public by asking friends and family to be judge and jury of her version of the story and when her husband tells his version of the story it's "Not the story".  

    This is why NONE of them are handling things well.   None of them are doing what grown ups do.   But her goal isn't just to fight for her marriage.   She wants to control her husband.  
    Oh definitely! First part - I wonder if LW asked her H about talking to friend but friend ignored so LW stepped in going "no girl, I'm serious. Back off." Definitely over stepping her H to handle it though

    I feel there's sooo many holes here as well.
    All in all .... none of it handled well.
  • I went and showed this letter to 2 of the men I know that Kim dated and we're all agreeing that there's a wickedly eerie coincidence here.  :D  None of us actually think it's Kim, but it's hella fun to entertain.
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