Wedding Woes
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You need to talk to your sister, but tread lightly.

Dear Prudence,

I love my nephews (7 and 5), but they are undisciplined and destructive. My brother-in-law phones it in as a father, and my sister acts like mothering is some mystic art she can’t possibly know. Her answer to everything is “They’re only little boys.” I want to scream at her, “Well, you’re their mother, so act like it!” If I try to intervene with the boys in any way, she tells me she will handle it. She doesn’t. We can’t go out to a restaurant without the boys running around, getting in the way of the waitstaff, or bothering other patrons. At the library, they shriek and destroy books. The last time they visited me, my older nephew brought in a rock from outside and threw it at his brother. It ended up shattering my glass coffee table while my dog was under it.

My sister immediately started comforting her crying son and told him it was all OK, that it was an accident. She never apologized to me or offered to pay for the table. I cut the visit short. We live just far enough to visit each other regularly but not within an afternoon. I don’t want my nephews back in my house again. I don’t know to start this conversation with my sister. I love her, and I hoped the boys would just grow out of it, but they are getting worse. Both of them regularly get in trouble at school and have been expelled from day care twice. I love my sister, but I can’t handle this anymore. What should I do?

—No More Nephews

Re: You need to talk to your sister, but tread lightly.

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    Wow ... so much going on.
    If LW wants to see nephews, maybe suggest a park? At least they can run around like mad, or somewhere that's kid friendly. I really didn't feel like much they did was kid friendly.
    Yes they are little boys, but I can't help but feel LW's right and the sister just isn't doing enough to reign them in to help them understand there's a time a place to be crazy.

    Could sister have issues going on LW doesn't know about? 100% yes. LW should talk to her and see what's up, these kids could be acting out for a reason.


    Side note - while an apology would have been great, idk why LW expected her to pay for coffee table. It's glass. Why are young kids around there?
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    Some of this is LWs business & some of it isn’t. like the BILs fathering and the day care stuff not LWs business. 

    If you don’t want them at your house, be specific with your sister about why. Honestly a shatttered coffee table is a pretty big deal, IMO. And maybe suggest an alternate location when you do see them. 
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    Oh man, I'm picturing the last Christmas when K's family from HI were here.  And those children were feral AF (I do not have children, but I am chosen auntie to a lot of friend's kids and there's a difference between misbehaving and what was happening here).  I was dealing with it until a harmonica was thrown and happened to be in the direction of my head and the baby was knocked over and hit her head on the tile floor.  I told K I had to go at that point.

    So, I do get where LW is coming from re: behavior, but I don't think it's LW's place to say anything about it beyond moving to a different location.  She can go over to her sister's or she can recommend a neutral 3rd location, preferably where the kids are entertained already.  
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    I do think you should gently tell your sister that either you will come to her home for any future visits or that you'll have to meet up at a park or someplace else that is neutral/kid friendly. Explain that you can no longer have your nephews in your home after the damage they did and because you are concerned for your dog's safety after the last incident. She will probably be upset, but hold your ground. You're not obligated to endanger your home or your pets because she can't control her kids. 

    That said, do not get into any other issues regarding their getting kicked out of daycare, etc. Just stick to what affects your life and what you have control over. Any other criticism, especially if you aren't a parent yourself (which it sounds like you aren't), will just result in a falling out with your sister.
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    This hits home.  My Bro and SIL are starting to realize this is also going on in their home and not sure what to do.  I told my brother he needs a Jo Frost from Supernanny to come in and help.  But Im glad my bro and sil do realize this and want to get help.  He said he may take his oldest to a behavioral doctor if it got to that point. Both are HORRIBLE at doling out discipline. In all reality I think it’s the parents that need the class on how to discipline.  Same for LW’s family. 

  • Options
    Wow ... so much going on.
    If LW wants to see nephews, maybe suggest a park? At least they can run around like mad, or somewhere that's kid friendly. I really didn't feel like much they did was kid friendly.
    Yes they are little boys, but I can't help but feel LW's right and the sister just isn't doing enough to reign them in to help them understand there's a time a place to be crazy.

    Could sister have issues going on LW doesn't know about? 100% yes. LW should talk to her and see what's up, these kids could be acting out for a reason.


    Side note - while an apology would have been great, idk why LW expected her to pay for coffee table. It's glass. Why are young kids around there?
    To the bolded - Because it is the LW's house?  Why should she child proof her house if the nephews are there sporadically?  It's a coffee table, should LW rearrange her whole house when the kids visit?  And I would absolutely offer to pay for a glass coffee table if my kid threw a rock and it broke!  THE KID THREW A ROCK!

    LW does need to talk to her sister and suggest only neutral sites or the sister's house.  LW should not mention how bad she thinks the parenting of the kids is going, but it is fine for her to bring up what has directly impacted herself.
    Yup. If my dog (or future kid) broken something, anything, of someone else’s I would absolutely pay for it. 
  • Options
    Wow ... so much going on.
    If LW wants to see nephews, maybe suggest a park? At least they can run around like mad, or somewhere that's kid friendly. I really didn't feel like much they did was kid friendly.
    Yes they are little boys, but I can't help but feel LW's right and the sister just isn't doing enough to reign them in to help them understand there's a time a place to be crazy.

    Could sister have issues going on LW doesn't know about? 100% yes. LW should talk to her and see what's up, these kids could be acting out for a reason.


    Side note - while an apology would have been great, idk why LW expected her to pay for coffee table. It's glass. Why are young kids around there?
    To the bolded - Because it is the LW's house?  Why should she child proof her house if the nephews are there sporadically?  It's a coffee table, should LW rearrange her whole house when the kids visit?  And I would absolutely offer to pay for a glass coffee table if my kid threw a rock and it broke!  THE KID THREW A ROCK!

    LW does need to talk to her sister and suggest only neutral sites or the sister's house.  LW should not mention how bad she thinks the parenting of the kids is going, but it is fine for her to bring up what has directly impacted herself.
    Yep! I would totally pay for something my kid broke - especially if they did it in an inappropriate way (like throwing a rock). Yes the kids need to be disciplined, but it isn't the LW's place to do it. Talk with the sister to see what else may be going on and explain that they need to meet in other places until they kids are in better control of themselves. This is a parent problem because they aren't disciplining their kids. I'm a firm believer in childproofing to a great extent, but kids need to learn how to behave around delicate items because not everyone has child proof houses (or offices for that matter). Most of the public rooms in my house are childproof for the boys when they come to visit. However, we didn't leave our glass ornaments off the Christmas tree. We just watched and guided them as to how to be around the tree.
  • Options
    Wow ... so much going on.
    If LW wants to see nephews, maybe suggest a park? At least they can run around like mad, or somewhere that's kid friendly. I really didn't feel like much they did was kid friendly.
    Yes they are little boys, but I can't help but feel LW's right and the sister just isn't doing enough to reign them in to help them understand there's a time a place to be crazy.

    Could sister have issues going on LW doesn't know about? 100% yes. LW should talk to her and see what's up, these kids could be acting out for a reason.


    Side note - while an apology would have been great, idk why LW expected her to pay for coffee table. It's glass. Why are young kids around there?
    To the bolded - Because it is the LW's house?  Why should she child proof her house if the nephews are there sporadically?  It's a coffee table, should LW rearrange her whole house when the kids visit?  And I would absolutely offer to pay for a glass coffee table if my kid threw a rock and it broke!  THE KID THREW A ROCK!

    LW does need to talk to her sister and suggest only neutral sites or the sister's house.  LW should not mention how bad she thinks the parenting of the kids is going, but it is fine for her to bring up what has directly impacted herself.
    Yup. If my dog (or future kid) broken something, anything, of someone else’s I would absolutely pay for it. 
    Same. If my child/pet broke someone's something, even as an accident, I would offer to pay for it. This was not an accident, and sister should have paid for the table.

    My home is not child proof, because we do not have children. My nibblings come over from time to time. They are 3 and 5, and while not undisciplined, have a lot of energy and run around. My sister would never allow them to bring a rock into the house and throw it, but they've accidentally broken little things before. Even as simple as spilling red koolaid on the rug, my sister offered to pay for cleaning. (I declined.) But you'd better believe my SIL paid for cleaning when her uninvited dog shit on my rug. 
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    I would absolutely pay to have something fixed if I broke it. And it wasn’t even an accident. The kid threw a rock! I would be upset too. 


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    This is the "My kids will never..." on the part of LW...  Every parent laughs because "Super Mom Before Kids" have a way of being humbled when they realize kids aren't robots nor are they adults with judgment skills.  Super Mom didn't tell the nephews herself "That rock is cool!  Unfortunately it's not a bouncy ball to throw - let's put together puzzles/play the wii/here's something to do instead!" diversion.  

    But really, the way this is solved is by going to Sister's house instead of sister coming to your child-free house until they're about 17 & 15, in which case they'll barely acknowledge your existence as a human being...
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    I think you can start by handling the incident itself as a lead off:

    "Hey sis, I think the for the time being I'm happy to come visit you at your house or at a meeting spot halfway.   My house is definitely not kid friendly and it was expensive to fix the coffee table last time." 

    There is probably no person who wants to hear her parenting criticized.   So rather than go to the parenting, hit at the cost.   Say, "I understand that kids will be kids and they may not understand the costs involved when a rock is thrown through a table but it was expensive to fix and nearly hurt my dog."   

    There is a lot of sanctimoniousness in the OP's tone and I think she'd think differently if she had kids.   BUT, empirically, her sister also sounds either completely out of touch with what is appropriate for kids or is so overwhelmed she can't figure it out.

    OP can ask how things are going and if sis needs help.   But my overall guess is that if there's any truth to the OP's comments, the father isn't there much and the mom is overcompensating and fears disciplining.

    To answer the question about the glass coffee table, @MissKittyDanger my parents have one.    It's a wooden border with a glass in-lay and about 20 years ago my cousin crawled under it and the glass shattered while my mom was babysitting my cousins.   She never wanted the glass table but has it.   For years she'd move it from the room when DH and I visited with the kids.   Now we insist that the kids will be watched and removing it only makes things worse.   
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