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Covid-19 / Vendor Contracts / Frustration of Purpose

knottie1e52da2858d9bf55knottie1e52da2858d9bf55 newb
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in Wedding Woes
Has anyone tried to claim Frustration of Purpose yet? Running into issues trying to postpone our August wedding as some vendors are stating we will forfeit deposits because there is no "government mandate" preventing it from being able to happen YET, but on top of our guests not feeling safe traveling, especially our "high risk" parents, both of our salaries have been cut to a fraction of what they were because of covid mandates, plus we can't determine a guest list because the venue doesn't know what their social distancing measures will be yet - though it will surely have a fraction of the original capacity.  I'm also reading about so many similar frustrations/situations and while this is terrible for event planners (I am one), this surely shouldn't fall on the couples.  Any lawyers on this? Anyone else claimed Frustration of Purpose and been successful?
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Re: Covid-19 / Vendor Contracts / Frustration of Purpose

  • banana468banana468 member
    Knottie Warrior 25000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    Honestly, I'm no lawyer and no lawyer worth their license to practice will advise over The Knot.   That said, I think some businesses can hold deposits and also cite that this is an act of God.   

    Not my wedding but until my flights to Florida last month were actually cancelled was I able to obtain a refund for them.   And that refund was only done because of lobbying do airlines forcing their hand that if they're cancelling flights in this circumstance then customers need to be refunded.   Normal cancelled flights did not come with refunds and instead came with vouchers/credits. 

    I would not be surprised if you spend more in court (depending on what you deposited) attempting to fight this than you would be better off rescheduling under the same premise.   Rather than try to fight your vendors can you ask them about the options that are available?  Keep in mind that all of you are being hit economically in this.   And it's going to be frustrating so instead of pushing the angle with a fight, can you talk about ways to possibly get something with your deposits and/or change dates? 
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  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    If you want legal advice, you should talk to a lawyer licensed in your state. I am a lawyer, but I'm not a moron. I'd be risking my license if offered you advice on an anonymous board without reading the contact, communication, or even knowing what jurisdiction you're in. 

    A bit of practical (non-legal) advice, take a step back from this for a few days. It seems like you're reacting from a place of [understandable] emotions. No one is at fault here and people who run these businesses are hurting too. They're not trying to screw you over; they're typically trying to do what's fair and while also keeping their business afloat. Like PP mentioned, asking vendors for options at this point may help you to think about this a little more pragmatically. 
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  • knottie1e52da2858d9bf55knottie1e52da2858d9bf55 newb
    First Comment
    edited May 2020
    Not alluding to anyone being a moron so kindly don't accuse me of being impractical or emotional when a venue can't even tell me an allowable capacity so I can manage invites or if dancing, a bouquet toss, or hors d'oeuvres / buffets will be allowed for that matter.  I work in events myself, if I can't produce the experience my fans/ticket buyers expected when they initially purchased, I don't get to hold onto their money.  Also maybe don't accuse brides of being "emotional" when they are proactive and need to pivot because they can't execute the wedding event they had planned, it's their event, not the vendor's.  Seems to me it's more emotional to hold onto  rather unreasonable hope given the government's outspokenness about events while putting guests in an uncomfortable position both financially and with regard to personal safety in an unfamiliar environment.
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  • banana468banana468 member
    Knottie Warrior 25000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    knottie1e52da2858d9bf55 said:
    Not alluding to anyone being a moron so kindly don't accuse me of being impractical or emotional when a venue can't even tell me an allowable capacity so I can manage invites or if dancing, a bouquet toss, or hors d'oeuvres / buffets will be allowed for that matter.  I work in events myself, if I can't produce the experience my fans/ticket buyers expected when they initially purchased, I don't get to hold onto their money.  Also maybe don't accuse brides of being "emotional" when they are proactive and need to pivot because they can't execute the wedding event they had planned, it's their event, not the vendor's.  Seems to me it's a more emotional to hold onto rather unreasonable hope given the government's outspokenness about events while putting guests in an uncomfortable position both financially and with regard to personal safety in an unfamiliar environment.
    You're missing the point.  You gave a venue money to hold an event.  That venue entered into a contract with you for that event.   Most contracts have clauses that allow the venue out of their obligation and most deposits are considered non refundable.   This is going to be done for their protection.   

    The venue and vendors are less likely to give up deposits that were considered non refundable.   You may consider this to be your event and not the vendor's but it's their deposit and date held for you.   And until they have any kind of guidance about appropriate parameters that are going to be in place in 3 months it's not going to bode well for you to start stomping about what is unknown.  

    Where are you getting married?  Are current restrictions being lifted?  Can you talk to them about rescheduling?  
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  • knottie1e52da2858d9bf55knottie1e52da2858d9bf55 newb
    First Comment
    Hi, please stop being so condescending - I'm not missing the point.  I am extremely familiar with venue contracts, I'm not trying to claim force majeure, I'm specifically looking into the claim of Frustration of Purpose.  
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  • banana468banana468 member
    Knottie Warrior 25000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    knottie1e52da2858d9bf55 said:
    Hi, please stop being so condescending - I'm not missing the point.  I am extremely familiar with venue contracts, I'm not trying to claim force majeure, I'm specifically looking into the claim of Frustration of Purpose.  
    I am not being condescending.   I'm telling you that:
    1) You're not going to get legal advice on what has and hasn't worked from people on The Knot. 
    2) You re not alone as the only person with an affected event.   
    3) Getting snippy on here won't get you anywhere.   You catch more flies with honey and if this the attitude you're taking with people offering you help then I am not surprised if your vendors aren't ready to start offering you options.

    If you are honestly looking for legal advice because you are looking to work against the vendors that you booked rather than with them then I'd look more at websites that offer legal advice like Avvo.  Or do crowd sourcing on Reddit.   




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  • NowIAmSypNowIAmSyp member
    Eighth Anniversary 500 Love Its 500 Comments First Answer
    knottie1e52da2858d9bf55 said:
    Hi, please stop being so condescending - I'm not missing the point.  I am extremely familiar with venue contracts, I'm not trying to claim force majeure, I'm specifically looking into the claim of Frustration of Purpose.  
    Hello- fellow event planner here...  take a deep breath, no one is being condescending...  this is just a very blunt website- people tell it like it is (I, for one, have always loved it, and the people on here helped me plan a kick-ass, etiquette-approved wedding in 2015 because of all that blunt advice).

    But honestly speaking- they're right- no one is going to give any sort of legal advice here.  Now, hopefully there are some fellow brides who have successfully used the Frustration of Purpose clause and can answer.  Otherwise, as one planner to another- hit up a lawyer in your jurisdiction and see what they have to say...  

    And good luck to you- and stick around, so you too can have a kick-ass, etiquette-approved wedding :)  Stay safe!
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  • knottie1e52da2858d9bf55knottie1e52da2858d9bf55 newb
    First Comment
    Thank you, this was actually helpful.
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  • knottie1e52da2858d9bf55knottie1e52da2858d9bf55 newb
    First Comment
    edited May 2020
    Good luck to all the brides out there being forced to fight for their special day :smile:
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  • knottie1e52da2858d9bf55knottie1e52da2858d9bf55 newb
    First Comment
    And to you, Banana468, you seem rather intent to make me and other brides navigating through an unprecedented time feel small.  Please stop responding to this post.
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  • banana468banana468 member
    Knottie Warrior 25000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    knottie1e52da2858d9bf55 said:
    And to you, Banana468, you seem rather intent to make me and other brides navigating through an unprecedented time feel small.  Please stop responding to this post.
    The intent is not to make you feel small.   

    This is an unprecedented time that everyone has to endure: brides, graduates, parents, children, spouses, business and government are all living through something that has not been experienced in our lifetimes.

    My goal was to give you advice not in what you were intending to pursue and instead to offer an alternative that could possibly help both you and the vendors who are also people who are also going through something they have not experienced before.     

    As an open forum we get to respond to topics in a manner that we see fit.   I hope that you one day have a great wedding.
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  • MyNameIsNotMyNameIsNot member
    Knottie Warrior 10000 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
    knottie1e52da2858d9bf55 said:
    Not alluding to anyone being a moron so kindly don't accuse me of being impractical or emotional when a venue can't even tell me an allowable capacity so I can manage invites or if dancing, a bouquet toss, or hors d'oeuvres / buffets will be allowed for that matter.  I work in events myself, if I can't produce the experience my fans/ticket buyers expected when they initially purchased, I don't get to hold onto their money.  Also maybe don't accuse brides of being "emotional" when they are proactive and need to pivot because they can't execute the wedding event they had planned, it's their event, not the vendor's.  Seems to me it's more emotional to hold onto  rather unreasonable hope given the government's outspokenness about events while putting guests in an uncomfortable position both financially and with regard to personal safety in an unfamiliar environment.
    And you wonder why I say you're reacting emotionally. 

    I get that it's frustrating to have this uncertainty and need to cancel your event. Trying to take out your frustrations by being nasty to other people is counter productive. You really, really need to take my advice and step away from this for a few days.  
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