Shelter showdown

mrsconn23 · July 2020

Dear Prudence,

My daughter’s birthday was over the July 4 weekend. I rented the best picnic area at the local park and paid a premium fee because of the holiday (we wouldn’t have room to stay socially distanced at our home). When we arrived, there was another family already in the gazebo we rented. I figured they hadn’t checked the numbers carefully and asked them to review their permit, since I’d rented Gazebo No. 1. They claimed to have a permit, just not with them, and suggested I use the next one (which was much smaller). I said I’d paid for a permit that reserved this gazebo from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. They said I wasn’t there at 9 a.m., so they took it, but that’s not what a reservation means!

I called the parks department. Rangers showed up, looked at my permit, and told the other family to move. The other family then started yelling that I was racist and calling me Karen. The park rangers made them move their stuff out of the gazebo, and they kept yelling at me the whole time. Each time a friend showed up, the other family yelled about what a selfish person I was. Every time one of us would pass their table to go to the restroom or water play area, they’d say, “Stay off our space, we have a permit, you can’t walk here.” Am I a racist because I didn’t let them steal the gazebo I’d paid for? I never raised my voice, never called anyone names, never said anything negative. I even offered to help them move their stuff!

—Was I Wrong?

banana468 · July 2020

You aren't a racist for telling people that they're using a space you paid for anymore than you would be if you had to do this at a theater.

People are frustrated and emotions are running high now. That is not excusing the behavior of what they did however I do think you need to cut people slack because of it.

mrsconn23 · July 2020

banana468 said:

You aren't a racist for telling people that they're using a space you paid for anymore than you would be if you had to do this at a theater.

People are frustrated and emotions are running high now. That is not excusing the behavior of what they did however I do think you need to cut people slack because of it.

This. Also, LW should take all this angst about the situation and contact the parks dept regarding their handling of shelter reservations. They could probably come up with a new system of how they're marked as 'reserved' and/or step up patrols when there are reservations to ensure the correct people are using the shelters they reserved and paid for. It really is the park's fault for not having this clearly defined in the first place. The LW could leave the race concerns out and just explain it was a source of contention and agitation for all involved.

STARMOON44 · July 2020

This is obviously made up.

cupcait927 · July 2020

STARMOON44 said:

This is obviously made up.

I don't think it's made up, but I do think it's exaggerated. I will say, the parks in my town are HORRIBLE at marking which pavilions are reserved and some parks are just first come first served and it's confusing. So I don't doubt that she got there and there was another family already set up, but I'm sure there's some exaggeration on her part about their behavior after they were made to move.

charlotte989875 · July 2020

You’re not wrong but there’s also nothing to do now, other than to suggest the rangers better mark pavilions that are reserved. Let it go and move on.

MyNameIsNot · July 2020

This is on the parks department. I've rented the pavilion at our local park before and had to move someone out. If it's not rented, it's first come, first serve. But if you do rent it, it's on you to kick out the people that are there, because the park does fuck all to mark it as rented.

Most people are pretty relaxed about moving, but when you've planned a party and someone is mid-way through grilling, it can get sticky. And that's why there was a random family that we don't know at my nephew's 5th birthday party.

short+sassy · July 2020

STARMOON44 said:

This is obviously made up.

I can totally see that whole situation happening, albeit some of it is unlikely.

But the made-up flag for me went up when the LW questions if they're racist because of the incident. There is obviously nothing racist about insisting you get what you have already paid for, so it doesn't make sense anyone would question that about themselves.

And now the twist! Assuming the LW made up/exaggerated this story. Which makes minorities look bad and unreasonable. Then, yes LW, you are racist.

STARMOON44 · July 2020

short+sassy said:

STARMOON44 said:

This is obviously made up.

I can totally see that whole situation happening, albeit some of it is unlikely.

But the made-up flag for me went up when the LW questions if they're racist because of the incident. There is obviously nothing racist about insisting you get what you have already paid for, so it doesn't make sense anyone would question that about themselves.

And now the twist! Assuming the LW made up/exaggerated this story. Which makes minorities look bad and unreasonable. Then, yes LW, you are racist.

Yup yup exactly my point!

ei34 · July 2020

short+sassy said:

STARMOON44 said:

This is obviously made up.

I can totally see that whole situation happening, albeit some of it is unlikely.

But the made-up flag for me went up when the LW questions if they're racist because of the incident. There is obviously nothing racist about insisting you get what you have already paid for, so it doesn't make sense anyone would question that about themselves.

And now the twist! Assuming the LW made up/exaggerated this story. Which makes minorities look bad and unreasonable. Then, yes LW, you are racist.

I've been called racist twice, once in 2002 and once in 2018, and both have stuck with me. I make an effort to be anti-racist but also to do the right thing/uphold rules/common decency, regardless of the color of skin of the person I'm dealing with. But both times I laid awake in bed for most of the night, replaying the incident, questioning the stance I took, dissecting if it was in fact racist. I remember both times clearly, so I'm not really surprised at LW replaying things, questioning if on some level their behavior was racist. Personally, writing to Prudie wouldn't be my solution, but I actually can see LW questioning themselves. None of the letter struck me as fake. (Sidenote but their parks dept has to do a better job. My local parks put up big signs on reserved pavillions. Not that they're currently open for events at all. But pre-pandemic it was very clear what areas were reserved.)

short+sassy · July 2020

ei34 said:

short+sassy said:

STARMOON44 said:

This is obviously made up.

I can totally see that whole situation happening, albeit some of it is unlikely.

But the made-up flag for me went up when the LW questions if they're racist because of the incident. There is obviously nothing racist about insisting you get what you have already paid for, so it doesn't make sense anyone would question that about themselves.

And now the twist! Assuming the LW made up/exaggerated this story. Which makes minorities look bad and unreasonable. Then, yes LW, you are racist.

I've been called racist twice, once in 2002 and once in 2018, and both have stuck with me. I make an effort to be anti-racist but also to do the right thing/uphold rules/common decency, regardless of the color of skin of the person I'm dealing with. But both times I laid awake in bed for most of the night, replaying the incident, questioning the stance I took, dissecting if it was in fact racist. I remember both times clearly, so I'm not really surprised at LW replaying things, questioning if on some level their behavior was racist. Personally, writing to Prudie wouldn't be my solution, but I actually can see LW questioning themselves. None of the letter struck me as fake. (Sidenote but their parks dept has to do a better job. My local parks put up big signs on reserved pavillions. Not that they're currently open for events at all. But pre-pandemic it was very clear what areas were reserved.)

Thanks for that perspective also. It really wouldn't have occurred to me in a clear-cut scenario where racism was not a factor, that a person would question it so long and ask Prudie.

With that said, as insidious as systemic racism is in our society, it's a good exercise for people...especially white people...to self reflect on have they been part of the problem, even if it was done subconsciously.

I have done that myself many times, even if it was just in my thoughts I was PO'ed at somebody or something like that. My benchmark is, "Would my thoughts/feelings/actions be exactly the same if this person was white?" (or "gender", "sexuality", etc.) My answer to myself 99% of the time is "yes" and I don't dwell on it any further. On the rare occasion it's not, then I give a lot more thought as to "why", what's motivating that, how can I change my thinking.

As an example, I got called racist often at a previous job. Probably 1-2x/month. I managed a huge gas station/convenience store. We had a policy that, if someone looked under 40, you had to ask them for ID if they were buying cigarettes or alcohol. And THAT'S when I would get called racist a lot. But always by someone who was, indeed, under 40. I only remember it, in general. There are only two times I specifically remember.

My only concern about it was, because I was white, was I better at guessing people's ages if they were also white and therefore not as consistently following that policy as I thought I was. I actually turned it into a game. In my mind, I'd guess someone's age before I looked at their ID. To see if my accuracy was different for white people as opposed to POC. I did that pretty consistently for a few weeks, which would have been hundreds of people. There wasn't any difference between someone's race and how well I guessed their age, so I felt better knowing that.It was actually rare that I asked for someone's ID and they WEREN'T under 40. I was especially paying attention to that. Those were also fairly equal instances.

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