This is a hill to die on.

mrsconn23 · March 2022

Dear Prudence,

I need help setting a boundary that makes me feel like a terrible person. My mother-in-law and I had a positive relationship for a long time, but the tides turned during the pandemic. She’s always been very into “alternative wellness” in a way I thought was harmless—but it got weird around COVID, and she refuses to mask or vaccinate. This behavior accompanied a political shift so strong that I urged my husband to help get her medical work up. When she started berating me for vaccinating our son, I rerouted all communication to my husband, and grieved.

In December, she got what we thought was a mild case of omicron, but developed longer term symptoms after. She is on leave from her job, but cannot afford to retire this early, or pay for long-term care. She’s also sticking to her beliefs, which enrages me.

My husband is advocating that she move in with us, a move I’m desperate to avoid. I’m scared I’d become the primary caregiver of this woman I feel a toxic brew of contempt and resentment for. I don’t want to be bullied about my parenting health choices. I don’t want her extremist beliefs around my son. A mean, petty, deeply cruel part of me thinks she deserves what she gets. My husband is angry at her too, but feels like there are no other options. We can’t even afford the couples therapy we both want for ourselves, so financing nursing care is off the table. Is there another way to solve this problem? I’d seriously consider moving in with my own parents before I’d live with her.

— Panicked

downtondiva · March 2022

You need to put your foot down with your husband, and you need to put it down hard. Emphasize that your relationship with her is not good at this point and that you don't want to be fighting with her all the time while also trying to take care of her. While you shouldn't say that she deserves what she got (that will not go over well with your husband even if he's angry at her too), I think you should say that she needs to figure out for herself how to handle this problem and take responsibility for herself. You and your husband, for a number of reasons, are not in a position to fix this for her, and you can't afford to twist yourself around like a pretzel to make it so that you are.

banana468 · March 2022

Nope nope nope.

You need to talk to your H and be quite firm that this is a hill to die on.

Talk to an attorney that specializes in elder care. Nursing care does not need to be financed by you. It's financed by your MIL and if she does not have money it's financed when she goes on Title 19. I am absolutely a firm believer that you are not financially responsible for the long term care of your parents. Use that brief session and then look into nursing homes that can take care of your MIL.

Be clear with your H that you both want your MIL to be healthy but you cannot and will not have your home become a toxic environment for your family by having her there for more than an afternoon visit.

charlotte989875 · March 2022

The is the hill to die on. And now. You and your H need to be clear that moving in isn’t an option. And stick to it.

But also LW is not wrong here. I can’t help but think some of this letter is looking for validation they’re not a horrible person and absolutely they are not.

mrsconn23 · March 2022

Agreed with all of the above. I am so glad DH and I are the same page that moving either of our dad's in with us is likely never going to be on the table. This is why having that conversation before there's an 'emergency' is so important.

LW this situation is not above an ultimatum IMO. She does not respect you or your parenting and she has berated you for your choices. Your child should not be living with someone like that, let alone you inviting that into your living situation.

banana468 · March 2022

mrsconn23 said:

Agreed with all of the above. I am so glad DH and I are the same page that moving either of our dad's in with us is likely never going to be on the table. This is why having that conversation before there's an 'emergency' is so important.

LW this situation is not above an ultimatum IMO. She does not respect you or your parenting and she has berated you for your choices. Your child should not be living with someone like that, let alone you inviting that into your living situation.

That is the issue that I think the LW needs to emphasize in conversation. This person actively berated the LW (but not her son??) for vaccinating their child - a move that is recommended by all major health agencies, professionals, and even the Pope! (While my personal feeling is that when some parents scream "I know what's best for my child," it's the new RW dog whistle, in this situation the LW can quite easily say that they made a choice based on documented studies."

I absolutely will not have people in my home who have not only disagreed with my choices but who sought to make our relationship more acrimonious for them and I certainly will not absorb the financial responsibility for their long term care.

short+sassy · March 2022

I'm admittedly pretty hard-hearted when it comes to issues like this. Grown adults are responsible for themselves. Period. The MIL is reaping what she sowed and it's not her son and DIL's responsibility to bail her out. This should be a hill to die on. The LW would be miserable all the time. Potentially for decades because the MIL is fairly young. Hell no to all of that.

If it were me, I'd help her in other ways. Downsize her home. Analyze her budget and advise on bills to cut down or out. Help her apply for SSDI (if applicable) and whatever government assistance she might be entitled to.

short+sassy · March 2022

My rant on the subject.

Not quite the same pressure because it is a friend, not a parent. But me, my H, and our (younger) neighbor (Carrie) had a bit of a CTJ talk with our elderly neighbor over the weekend. Though not as much of a CTJ as I would have preferred. I would have been harsher and more no-nonsense. But Carrie is a major soft-touch. I tell Carrie all the time that nobody else is her responsibility and she needs to stop taking other people's problems onto her own shoulders. (Names are made up)

The elderly neighbor (Susan) should absolutely no longer be living by herself. She needs to be in assisted living/nursing home. But she's lived in her house since the '70s and doesn't want to leave it. I get that. I'm very sympathetic to how wrenching it would be for her. But she doesn't have any children. She doesn't have any close family and no one who lives nearby. So guess who she is always calling to help her? The three of us.

A big problem is, when she falls, she can no longer get up by herself. And while that could happen anyway because of her poor mobility. She's also drunk a lot, which means she falls even more often.

Cue 1:30AM this last Saturday. She was drunk and fell near her bed, but couldn't get back up. She called my H. But he and I were already sleeping and we don't leave our phones in our bedroom. For exactly these kind of reasons. So then she called Carrie. Woke her up from a dead sleep. But Carrie doesn't have this neighbor's house key (which I found surprising) but, even if she did, she can't lift this neighbor off the floor. Quite frankly, my H should no longer be doing that either because he is getting older and starting to have back issues.

Carrie told her to call 911. But Susan didn't want to do that because they will charge her. So, instead, she pulled her blanket down and slept on the floor until my H woke up and could go help her. But poor Carrie can't get back to sleep because she is understandably upset and worried about Susan.

We told Susan she needs to get one of those Life Alert services. We also put a lockbox on her house with the front door key. So, when she does need to call 911, they don't have to break down her door to get to her. And we also made a spare key for Carrie.

I really, really want my H to tell her that he is no longer able to lift her, if he is by himself (Carried had helped this time). He doesn't want to go that far, but I'm working on it because this will not be happening anymore. I will be hella pissed if he strains his back and is out of commission for at least a week, all because this neighbor is so irresponsible in so many ways.

That's the big, recent example. But she also has two cats. Even though she can't empty the litter box anymore. And one small dog. She has trouble grocery shopping and can only carry 1-2 light bags. She can't carry the pet food in. She buys cases of water that she can't carry at all. But she doesn't want a Brita filter for her kitchen tap because she's always drunk bottled water. Just generally a very stubborn person who fears minor change, even when it would make her life cheaper and easier.

But then she expects everyone else to pick up the slack. Don't get me wrong. We're not monsters. In the past, we've always been happy to help her with minor things like carrying in groceries, when we were available. But as the years have gone by, her needs have become greater. And it's also morphed where her attitude is she expects us to do these things and it is our obligation.

No, it's not. And she had no business calling anyone at 1:30AM. If it wasn't enough of an emergency to call the paramedics, then she should have saved the phone calls until a more reasonable hour.

banana468 · March 2022

@short+sassy I'm going to be in that with my parents. The advantage is that their finances aren't the issue. But my mom's had a hip replacement already and has bad knees. She's likely needing them replaced (they pop out without notice) but she also fears the surgery and recovery. My parents live in your average Cape Cod style home and there is no way to get into the home without going up a flight of stairs. The exterior flight has no arm rail in places.

The washer and dryer are in the basement and could not be moved without major home upheaval.

May 2020 will mark 2 years since my father last drove and they still have two cars. They at least got rid of my dad's "toy" Corvette. I have asked my mom to sell or give away her old sedan because the SUV they have with a hatch is both newer and meets their needs better should there be a time that they need to move medical equipment. She has not sold it or done anything with it and knows that my dad will not drive again.

They've had this home for 45 years. I get it. It's the home they built their life in. But there's going to be a time, likely soon, that there's going to be a major life event preventing them from actually living in the house and I am then going to have to tell my mom that she doesn't have a choice. If my mom needs to be hospitalized we'll need to have 24 hour care for my dad. If my dad is hospitalized my mom is OK short term. But I think she's not looking at the long term well and I'm likely not going to have the bandwidth to both parent my kids and parent my parents.

short+sassy · March 2022

banana468 said:

@short+sassy I'm going to be in that with my parents. The advantage is that their finances aren't the issue. But my mom's had a hip replacement already and has bad knees. She's likely needing them replaced (they pop out without notice) but she also fears the surgery and recovery. My parents live in your average Cape Cod style home and there is no way to get into the home without going up a flight of stairs. The exterior flight has no arm rail in places.

The washer and dryer are in the basement and could not be moved without major home upheaval.

May 2020 will mark 2 years since my father last drove and they still have two cars. They at least got rid of my dad's "toy" Corvette. I have asked my mom to sell or give away her old sedan because the SUV they have with a hatch is both newer and meets their needs better should there be a time that they need to move medical equipment. She has not sold it or done anything with it and knows that my dad will not drive again.

They've had this home for 45 years. I get it. It's the home they built their life in. But there's going to be a time, likely soon, that there's going to be a major life event preventing them from actually living in the house and I am then going to have to tell my mom that she doesn't have a choice. If my mom needs to be hospitalized we'll need to have 24 hour care for my dad. If my dad is hospitalized my mom is OK short term. But I think she's not looking at the long term well and I'm likely not going to have the bandwidth to both parent my kids and parent my parents.

I hear ya! And it's so much harder when it's your parents. Hopefully their health holds out as long as possible for the status quo. But it's hard when you know the day is coming and the conversation isn't going to be any easier.

It's uncomfortable to tell a grown adult, especially an elder, what they should do. But it gets to a point where something's gotta give and people need to see reason, even when those truths are hard.

Fortunately, my neighbor can still drive. At least there is that. She lives on the first floor of her house. But it's a raised house that has about 5 steps to the front door. No handrail either and she uses a cane. So that's another hazard.

short+sassy · March 2022

For a funny story on these sad situations.

My mom was a caretaker for her mother for a longtime. It gave her perspective on how to make things easier for us (me and my sister), for when she gets to a point where she needs assisted living. Though her H is 10 years younger than her, so score on that, lol.

But she jokingly said something to my sister back then like, "Oh L, when I can no longer take care of myself, are you going to take care of me?"

My sister responded with, "Mom! Of course! I will personally put you on a plane and send you to Jenny (me)."

banana468 · March 2022

short+sassy said:

For a funny story on these sad situations.

My mom was a caretaker for her mother for a longtime. It gave her perspective on how to make things easier for us (me and my sister), for when she gets to a point where she needs assisted living. Though her H is 10 years younger than her, so score on that, lol.

But she jokingly said something to my sister back then like, "Oh L, when I can no longer take care of myself, are you going to take care of me?"

My sister responded with, "Mom! Of course! I will personally put you on a plane and send you to Jenny (me)."

Yeah, the issue is that my ILs are very much aware of what it takes after dealing with MIL's mother and later all the issues that FIL's sister brought on the family dealing with his mom. They sold their home in 08, moved to a 55+ condo at that time and then in '18 moved again to be near us.

My mom lived close to her mom until her mom passed. My brother still lives close by. He talks about how he's going to move and hasn't. Until he does he's taking on a lot of the burden.

There are TONS of places my parents can live near me and the cost of living out here is a bit lower and certainly less congested than their current location. My vent is that because of their health and location they aren't mobile so my ILs are the grand parents that went to Pinewood Derby and the baseball and soccer games. My parents make it up for the holidays and lifetime events like Christmas but haven't seen either of my kids play a sport. My mom is so stubborn she is not going to be receptive that I tell her she's not nearly as active with my kids as her mom or MIL were.

This is a hill to die on.

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