Life is full of inconveniences, unfortunately.

mrsconn23 · December 2022

Dear Prudence,

I recently attended a charity dance performance in a large theater where seven local dance troupes each performed a piece. At the end of my row of seats was a small woman with a small (assuming 1-to-2-year-old) girl who was very cute and enthusiastic about the show. So much so that she screamed and screeched and jumped up and down throughout the performances. (It’s an old theater—I could feel my seat shaking from a few seats away.) During a break, a couple asked the woman if she wouldn’t mind keeping the child quiet, and the woman, clearly annoyed, said in a very loud voice “YOU WANT ME TO KEEP A CHILD QUIET????” I understand that children don’t always act in a manner that is appropriate in public spaces, but I felt that it was selfish for her to continue to allow this child to jump and yell while (a) artists were performing and (b) while paying patrons were there to enjoy a show. Rather than say anything, I left my seat and watched the remainder of the performances from the lobby where they had a closed caption TV as I was no longer able to enjoy the show. Is there something I could do or say in this instance in the future? I didn’t want to get an usher as it’s not really their job and it also felt like “tattling,” but truth be told I had to leave my seat because it was so distracting and maddening.

— Crotchety Old Crank or Justifiably Frustrated

STARMOON44 · December 2022

Unmmm what? It is 100% the ushers job.

CharmedPam · December 2022

Yeah but sometimes usher’s don’t pay attention.
have fun raising this child, lady.

banana468 · December 2022

STARMOON44 said:

Unmmm what? It is 100% the ushers job.

Absolutely. I've come very close to getting them when in NYC. The worst was when the people in front of me in Carnegie Hall wouldn't stop with the photos which is both rude and illegal.

Unless this was a performance for kids quite frankly the toddler had no business being there and that's when you reach the point as the usher to say, "Madam we understand that your child cannot help this however her behavior is both a distraction to the performers and patrons and we ask that you escort her to the lobby where you can both watch the rest of the performance."

mrsconn23 · December 2022

I understand LW didn't want to 'tattle' after the lady's outburst just in case she caught her 'complaining' to the usher before they went to tell her to take her kid to the lobby, but closed mouths also don't get fed.

It was bold of the patrons to go up to her in the lobby to address it directly with her. However, her reaction would have taken my fuck-o-meter down to negative numbers because, yes...keeping a child quiet or removing them IS how you deal with these situations. It is definitely your responsibility as the parent to manage your child. I might have told the usher on the way back to my seat before the lights were down for act 2.

I also don't love Prudie's response to this question

Dear Crotchety,

So many things are true here. Just a handful of them:

· It is really hard to keep a child quiet.

· It is really annoying to hear screeching and feel your seat shaking when you’re trying to watch a performance.

· When you attend something family-friendly like a local charity dance performance, you might expect to encounter some children who are not being kept quiet.

· The mom could have taken the child to the lobby, or outside, or given her a snack or distraction. That would have been very considerate.

· Someone—I’m not saying it had to be you, but someone—who approached the mom after she was chastised and said “Your kid is cute and I’m glad she’s having fun” would have really made her day. Just saying.

· If the rules of the theater were being broken, an usher or security would have stepped in without your tattling.

banana468 · December 2022

Yeah - Prudie's response is a bit off and I say this as a parent.

I've BEEN there. Now DH and I encountered it at mass when on a summer day DH had to take Chiquito outside because he was being a typical loud toddler. And a woman approached him asking if we considered taking turns going to mass because the kid wa so loud. I balked at this and still do because that is faith and not a performance AND we always took the kid outside when either one of them were acting up.

But the point is that if you're a parent you show up with distractions and know that if the kid is out of line you remove the kid and don't expect that those around you appreciate the second unpaid for show.

short+sassy · December 2022

If I was near enough to back up the other couple, I would have. Or asked an usher to take care of it. Or to move me to a comparable seat (if one was available). Why should I watch the performance from the lobby, when it is someone else that is disturbing me and everyone around me? Nope.

I don't have any expectation for a child that young to be quiet. But if they are not being quiet...and it also sounds like the mom wasn't even trying to control the noise...then the mom needs to be the one sitting in the lobby to watch the performance, until their child has calmed down enough to try again.

MissKittyDanger · December 2022

1 - yes usher's job

2 - you can also ask about a different seat

3 - GOOD LUCK KEEPING A 2YRD OLD QUIET
It does not work.
The child was not misbehaving, just being loud and enthusiastic - that is the sound of joy.

edit: what if it was a person who has disabilities - turrets, etc - would LW still expect them to be quiet?

banana468 · December 2022

MissKittyDanger said:

1 - yes usher's job

2 - you can also ask about a different seat

3 - GOOD LUCK KEEPING A 2YRD OLD QUIET
It does not work.
The child was not misbehaving, just being loud and enthusiastic - that is the sound of joy.

edit: what if it was a person who has disabilities - turrets, etc - would LW still expect them to be quiet?

There are often accommodations that can be available for those with disabilities.

FWIW, the elementary school DS attends is also the school for students with special needs. Every time I attend a school concert the teachers and paras are on hand to assist and do what they can for the students that are non-verbal and may not comprehend how to act in a public setting.

I think the point though in this is that if you can't keep the kid quiet you don't take the kid there. Would you take BK to a movie - even a kids' one and not take her out of it if she refused to stop talking or jumping?

VarunaTT · December 2022

3. Yes, the child was misbehaving. Do children misbehave? Yes. Do other people not the kid's parents always have to "just deal with it"? Nope.

I feel like there just has to be some acknowledgement in the world that not every single place in the world is a great place for kids. And if you choose to have kids...yeah, there's a sacrifice on YOUR part. Not mine. I'm so fundamentally exhausted being asked to take kids and their needs into consideration in what feels like all the time as a single adult who chose not to parent.

I'm feeling this hard b/c while waiting out my allergy shot yesterday, a woman and her 2 children, in the whole entire waiting room full of open chairs, sat right behind me. She started reading to them. The kids were asking continous questions. I was dealing just fine. Then the one right behind me starting coughing and sneezing. Says something about snot. Mom says you're fine. Other little one goes to get tissue. One right behind me starts blowing what is obviously a wet nose.

I got up and moved. In doing so, I had to walk past her. Mom had the nerve to shoot me a dirty look. Lady, we're in the goddamn doctor's office and it's obvious your germ machine is sick and I don't want to be around it, screw the entire way off. I've had far too many situations lately where my adult time has been ruined by small children and I have to make adjustments. There has to be a compromise here somewhere for civilization and sometimes it's DON'T TAKE THE 2 YEAR OLD TO A LIVE PERFORMANCE.

ETA: typos

short+sassy · December 2022

MissKittyDanger said:

1 - yes usher's job

2 - you can also ask about a different seat

3 - GOOD LUCK KEEPING A 2YRD OLD QUIET
It does not work.
The child was not misbehaving, just being loud and enthusiastic - that is the sound of joy.

edit: what if it was a person who has disabilities - turrets, etc - would LW still expect them to be quiet?

I would. I know disabilities are horrible and aren't fair. But if a person's disability is noise related and it's causing a major disruption to the performance, then either they or their caretaker should take them to the lobby until that changes. If they didn't, I would do the same thing I previously mentioned. Contact an usher for either myself to be moved to a comparable seat or have the usher ask them to go to the lobby.

Disabilities are not a carte blanche. A more obvious example would be someone in a wheelchair who needs to sit in a special section that has room for their chair. But if that section is sold out, they usually can't be allowed to have their chair at the end of an aisle because it is a fire hazard to partially obstruct the aisle.

With that said, if a child or disabled person made an occasional loud noise, that wouldn't bother me.

It wasn't the child misbehaving. It was their mother. Nobody wants to listen to or be subjected to constant "sounds of joy". Here and there, is perhaps cute and charming. But more than that and it's like someone is repeatedly driving an ice pick through my ear. That's why the child needed to be removed to the lobby.

charlotte989875 · December 2022

I want to know if the performances were geared towards families or a general audience. Like is this a series of kids dance troupes and it’s a boisterous event? Then I think LW just has to suck it up. If it’s meant for kids then you can’t be mad there are kids acting like kids.

Now a general audience thing? Then I think the mom could have handled it better. Could she have given the toddler a snack, or taken them out or off to the side? But ultimately if they’re breaking the theatre rules or norms then it’s an ushers responsibility and if they don’t notice LW is free to involve them.

MissKittyDanger · December 2022

banana468 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

1 - yes usher's job

2 - you can also ask about a different seat

3 - GOOD LUCK KEEPING A 2YRD OLD QUIET
It does not work.
The child was not misbehaving, just being loud and enthusiastic - that is the sound of joy.

edit: what if it was a person who has disabilities - turrets, etc - would LW still expect them to be quiet?

There are often accommodations that can be available for those with disabilities.

FWIW, the elementary school DS attends is also the school for students with special needs. Every time I attend a school concert the teachers and paras are on hand to assist and do what they can for the students that are non-verbal and may not comprehend how to act in a public setting.

I think the point though in this is that if you can't keep the kid quiet you don't take the kid there. Would you take BK to a movie - even a kids' one and not take her out of it if she refused to stop talking or jumping?

Most schools here have the option of integration and extra help for those with special needs - that's not to say there aren't separate schools but it varies with district.

But also, this doesn't sound like a school. It seems more like a community center style

Movie? No. We've tried that and didn't work, but this sounds like something that is more community based so there's going to be less "sit and watch" than typical.

ei34 · December 2022

charlotte989875 said:

I want to know if the performances were geared towards families or a general audience. Like is this a series of kids dance troupes and it’s a boisterous event? Then I think LW just has to suck it up. If it’s meant for kids then you can’t be mad there are kids acting like kids.

Now a general audience thing? Then I think the mom could have handled it better. Could she have given the toddler a snack, or taken them out or off to the side? But ultimately if they’re breaking the theatre rules or norms then it’s an ushers responsibility and if they don’t notice LW is free to involve them.

This is where I am. What kind of dance troupes? Who was the targeted audience? Not to brag but my kids love live theater/entertainment and fit right in with the targeted crowd. Shows over the years include: Disney on Ice, Sesame Street Live, Paw Patrol Live, and most recently, Bluey Live. Sense a theme? Lol. Take your kids to kid events. Definitely reach for non-kid events, if you think your kid might enjoy. And if it isn't working out, take your kid to the back/the lobby/an empty area. Not your kid's fault for acting their age, but it's not the people around you's fault either. From 2015-2019 I spent more time in my church's vestibule than in actual mass.
edit spelling

banana468 · December 2022

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

1 - yes usher's job

2 - you can also ask about a different seat

3 - GOOD LUCK KEEPING A 2YRD OLD QUIET
It does not work.
The child was not misbehaving, just being loud and enthusiastic - that is the sound of joy.

edit: what if it was a person who has disabilities - turrets, etc - would LW still expect them to be quiet?

There are often accommodations that can be available for those with disabilities.

FWIW, the elementary school DS attends is also the school for students with special needs. Every time I attend a school concert the teachers and paras are on hand to assist and do what they can for the students that are non-verbal and may not comprehend how to act in a public setting.

I think the point though in this is that if you can't keep the kid quiet you don't take the kid there. Would you take BK to a movie - even a kids' one and not take her out of it if she refused to stop talking or jumping?

Most schools here have the option of integration and extra help for those with special needs - that's not to say there aren't separate schools but it varies with district.

But also, this doesn't sound like a school. It seems more like a community center style

Movie? No. We've tried that and didn't work, but this sounds like something that is more community based so there's going to be less "sit and watch" than typical.

My comment about the school was more that I've witnessed it firsthand with professionals and paraprofessionals who were with students during performances. When they've been put on, the students sit and watch the other grades while they aren't performing. And while those with extremely special needs to not perform, they do attend and the professionals sit with them during the performances. If there is something that is very exciting for them where they are audibly or visually distracting they work to curb the noise and remove those students from the school gym.

I think you're right that this is behavior that is expected of the kid. But the point isn't that the kid should be expected to act like an adult. The point is that the adult should know better than to take a child to a performance where the kid is a distraction and when that happens, they need to be poised to take the kid out. The world understands that there are children however parents also need to not bring kids to places that are inappropriate for them. Heck, even in Disney World, a place loaded with kids there's a Michelin star restaurant with a minimum age requirement because it flat out tells parents that there are spots in the most magical place on Earth where children don't belong.

VarunaTT · December 2022

banana468 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

1 - yes usher's job

2 - you can also ask about a different seat

3 - GOOD LUCK KEEPING A 2YRD OLD QUIET
It does not work.
The child was not misbehaving, just being loud and enthusiastic - that is the sound of joy.

edit: what if it was a person who has disabilities - turrets, etc - would LW still expect them to be quiet?

There are often accommodations that can be available for those with disabilities.

FWIW, the elementary school DS attends is also the school for students with special needs. Every time I attend a school concert the teachers and paras are on hand to assist and do what they can for the students that are non-verbal and may not comprehend how to act in a public setting.

I think the point though in this is that if you can't keep the kid quiet you don't take the kid there. Would you take BK to a movie - even a kids' one and not take her out of it if she refused to stop talking or jumping?

Most schools here have the option of integration and extra help for those with special needs - that's not to say there aren't separate schools but it varies with district.

But also, this doesn't sound like a school. It seems more like a community center style

Movie? No. We've tried that and didn't work, but this sounds like something that is more community based so there's going to be less "sit and watch" than typical.

My comment about the school was more that I've witnessed it firsthand with professionals and paraprofessionals who were with students during performances. When they've been put on, the students sit and watch the other grades while they aren't performing. And while those with extremely special needs to not perform, they do attend and the professionals sit with them during the performances. If there is something that is very exciting for them where they are audibly or visually distracting they work to curb the noise and remove those students from the school gym.

I think you're right that this is behavior that is expected of the kid. But the point isn't that the kid should be expected to act like an adult. The point is that the adult should know better than to take a child to a performance where the kid is a distraction and when that happens, they need to be poised to take the kid out. The world understands that there are children however parents also need to not bring kids to places that are inappropriate for them. Heck, even in Disney World, a place loaded with kids there's a Michelin star restaurant with a minimum age requirement because it flat out tells parents that there are spots in the most magical place on Earth where children don't belong.

The bolded is what I was thinking and didn't say as perfectly.

I did question what type of performance it was. But honestly, charity event and dance troupe to me doesn't sound kid friendly, in my experience. If I show up to the musical Aladdin, I expect kids and I expect kids to be being kids. If I show up to La Boheme and a kid starts being a kid during Musetta's Waltz, I'd be upset and frustrated.

Casadena · December 2022

ei34 said:

charlotte989875 said:

I want to know if the performances were geared towards families or a general audience. Like is this a series of kids dance troupes and it’s a boisterous event? Then I think LW just has to suck it up. If it’s meant for kids then you can’t be mad there are kids acting like kids.

Now a general audience thing? Then I think the mom could have handled it better. Could she have given the toddler a snack, or taken them out or off to the side? But ultimately if they’re breaking the theatre rules or norms then it’s an ushers responsibility and if they don’t notice LW is free to involve them.

This is where I am. What kind of dance troupes? Who was the targeted audience? Not to brag but my kids love live theater/entertainment and fit right in with the targeted crowd. Shows over the years include: Disney on Ice, Sesame Street Live, Paw Patrol Live, and most recently, Bluey Live. Sense a theme? Lol. Take your kids to kid events. Definitely reach for non-kid events, if you think your kid might enjoy. And if it isn't working out, take your kid to the back/the lobby/an empty area. Not your kid's fault for acting their age, but it's not the people around you's fault either. From 2015-2019 I spent more time in my church's vestibule than in actual mass.
edit spelling

I'min 100% agreement with Charlotte and Ei34.

banana468 · December 2022

ei34 said:

charlotte989875 said:

I want to know if the performances were geared towards families or a general audience. Like is this a series of kids dance troupes and it’s a boisterous event? Then I think LW just has to suck it up. If it’s meant for kids then you can’t be mad there are kids acting like kids.

Now a general audience thing? Then I think the mom could have handled it better. Could she have given the toddler a snack, or taken them out or off to the side? But ultimately if they’re breaking the theatre rules or norms then it’s an ushers responsibility and if they don’t notice LW is free to involve them.

This is where I am. What kind of dance troupes? Who was the targeted audience? Not to brag but my kids love live theater/entertainment and fit right in with the targeted crowd. Shows over the years include: Disney on Ice, Sesame Street Live, Paw Patrol Live, and most recently, Bluey Live. Sense a theme? Lol. Take your kids to kid events. Definitely reach for non-kid events, if you think your kid might enjoy. And if it isn't working out, take your kid to the back/the lobby/an empty area. Not your kid's fault for acting their age, but it's not the people around you's fault either. From 2015-2019 I spent more time in my church's vestibule than in actual mass.
edit spelling

About 2015-2018 for DH. I also took some of those runs but one of us would stay with Chiquita. For the first year I could distract Chiquito with a boob in the mouth (yup - I nursed in church because it was by far the easiest way to keep the kid quiet) and then they'd be in the rear or outside. Our vestibule is not soundproof so it made for some winter walks and it sucked - but they did what they needed to do knowing that while Jesus said, "let the children come to me," he didn't ask for them to show up kicking and screaming and singing Daniel Tiger.

My point with the bringing up of the church aspect as well is that church is FOR families. So you go and bring your kids to that open public space because that's their faith and it's also one of the places where they can learn about the way to sit still while someone else is talking. But the expectation is that you also know that when your kid is more of a distraction than an observer you remove the kid. In the place of church, you don' stop bringing them because that's their faith. But you do follow the process of removing them when they're a distraction and also bring things that are quiet. I got through many an hour with a travel bowl of Cheerios, crayons, coloring books and board books.

short+sassy · December 2022

VarunaTT said:

banana468 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

1 - yes usher's job

2 - you can also ask about a different seat

3 - GOOD LUCK KEEPING A 2YRD OLD QUIET
It does not work.
The child was not misbehaving, just being loud and enthusiastic - that is the sound of joy.

edit: what if it was a person who has disabilities - turrets, etc - would LW still expect them to be quiet?

There are often accommodations that can be available for those with disabilities.

FWIW, the elementary school DS attends is also the school for students with special needs. Every time I attend a school concert the teachers and paras are on hand to assist and do what they can for the students that are non-verbal and may not comprehend how to act in a public setting.

I think the point though in this is that if you can't keep the kid quiet you don't take the kid there. Would you take BK to a movie - even a kids' one and not take her out of it if she refused to stop talking or jumping?

Most schools here have the option of integration and extra help for those with special needs - that's not to say there aren't separate schools but it varies with district.

But also, this doesn't sound like a school. It seems more like a community center style

Movie? No. We've tried that and didn't work, but this sounds like something that is more community based so there's going to be less "sit and watch" than typical.

My comment about the school was more that I've witnessed it firsthand with professionals and paraprofessionals who were with students during performances. When they've been put on, the students sit and watch the other grades while they aren't performing. And while those with extremely special needs to not perform, they do attend and the professionals sit with them during the performances. If there is something that is very exciting for them where they are audibly or visually distracting they work to curb the noise and remove those students from the school gym.

I think you're right that this is behavior that is expected of the kid. But the point isn't that the kid should be expected to act like an adult. The point is that the adult should know better than to take a child to a performance where the kid is a distraction and when that happens, they need to be poised to take the kid out. The world understands that there are children however parents also need to not bring kids to places that are inappropriate for them. Heck, even in Disney World, a place loaded with kids there's a Michelin star restaurant with a minimum age requirement because it flat out tells parents that there are spots in the most magical place on Earth where children don't belong.

The bolded is what I was thinking and didn't say as perfectly.

I did question what type of performance it was. But honestly, charity event and dance troupe to me doesn't sound kid friendly, in my experience. If I show up to the musical Aladdin, I expect kids and I expect kids to be being kids. If I show up to La Boheme and a kid starts being a kid during Musetta's Waltz, I'd be upset and frustrated.

Totally agree with everyone about the difference between a show for kids and one that isn't. I'd think a show like "Disney On Ice" would have children dancing and singing in their seats. And if an audience member doesn't like that, then they would need to be the one watching from the lobby. Because ushers can't move 75% of the audience to the lobby, lol.

But this didn't sound like a show meant for children.

MyNameIsNot · December 2022

short+sassy said:

VarunaTT said:

banana468 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

banana468 said:

MissKittyDanger said:

1 - yes usher's job

2 - you can also ask about a different seat

3 - GOOD LUCK KEEPING A 2YRD OLD QUIET
It does not work.
The child was not misbehaving, just being loud and enthusiastic - that is the sound of joy.

edit: what if it was a person who has disabilities - turrets, etc - would LW still expect them to be quiet?

There are often accommodations that can be available for those with disabilities.

FWIW, the elementary school DS attends is also the school for students with special needs. Every time I attend a school concert the teachers and paras are on hand to assist and do what they can for the students that are non-verbal and may not comprehend how to act in a public setting.

I think the point though in this is that if you can't keep the kid quiet you don't take the kid there. Would you take BK to a movie - even a kids' one and not take her out of it if she refused to stop talking or jumping?

Most schools here have the option of integration and extra help for those with special needs - that's not to say there aren't separate schools but it varies with district.

But also, this doesn't sound like a school. It seems more like a community center style

Movie? No. We've tried that and didn't work, but this sounds like something that is more community based so there's going to be less "sit and watch" than typical.

My comment about the school was more that I've witnessed it firsthand with professionals and paraprofessionals who were with students during performances. When they've been put on, the students sit and watch the other grades while they aren't performing. And while those with extremely special needs to not perform, they do attend and the professionals sit with them during the performances. If there is something that is very exciting for them where they are audibly or visually distracting they work to curb the noise and remove those students from the school gym.

I think you're right that this is behavior that is expected of the kid. But the point isn't that the kid should be expected to act like an adult. The point is that the adult should know better than to take a child to a performance where the kid is a distraction and when that happens, they need to be poised to take the kid out. The world understands that there are children however parents also need to not bring kids to places that are inappropriate for them. Heck, even in Disney World, a place loaded with kids there's a Michelin star restaurant with a minimum age requirement because it flat out tells parents that there are spots in the most magical place on Earth where children don't belong.

The bolded is what I was thinking and didn't say as perfectly.

I did question what type of performance it was. But honestly, charity event and dance troupe to me doesn't sound kid friendly, in my experience. If I show up to the musical Aladdin, I expect kids and I expect kids to be being kids. If I show up to La Boheme and a kid starts being a kid during Musetta's Waltz, I'd be upset and frustrated.

Totally agree with everyone about the difference between a show for kids and one that isn't. I'd think a show like "Disney On Ice" would have children dancing and singing in their seats. And if an audience member doesn't like that, then they would need to be the one watching from the lobby. Because ushers can't move 75% of the audience to the lobby, lol.

But this didn't sound like a show meant for children.

That's how I read it too. LW isn't really specific, but the language used and that LW wasn't the only patron bothered by the kid suggests that this wasn't a kid-targeted performance.

I just have to say that I hate Prudie's response. 1) Not everything is designed to be for kids. It's the parents' responsibility to remove/distract kids when they're not behaving appropriately for the environment and 2) It's ok to bring this to an usher's attention! Assuming the staff will notice and intervene without prompting is absurd. If it is Disney on Ice, the staff is going to tell you that.

banana468 · December 2022

I'm also going to say that you need to go to the usher so that way the usher is specifically told "these people are making it hard to enjoy the performance." Then the usher can say, "I need to ask you to remove yourself from this row due to the offending noise because you've been reported as disturbing the performance for others."

Based on how the LW wrote it, you can bet that if she was approached by an usher without the patrons complaining the first question would be, "Well no one has complained have they!?!"

Life is full of inconveniences, unfortunately.

Re: Life is full of inconveniences, unfortunately.

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