Start refusing to go anywhere if she wants to take the dog.

mrsconn23 · June 2023

Dear Prudence,

My mother is in her 60s and due to various health issues, I often take her on her errands and to her appointments. She decided a few months ago that her pet dog was going to be her “service dog,” and she started taking him with her. She even got him an official-looking service dog vest off of Amazon.

He is not a service dog. She doesn’t have any medical conditions that service dogs can help with, and this dog is not trained to perform any specific tasks to help her. He’s not even well-behaved—he often pulls on his leash, tries to wander, and jumps on people.

We frequently get looks when we’re in stores and other places with him. Twice, employees have asked her if he is a service dog (she says yes) and which task he is trained to perform (“support me,” she says). I looked it up and that is all they are legally allowed to ask. They didn’t seem to know what to do when she didn’t admit that he wasn’t a service dog. Even when no one says anything, I’m mortified to be with her when she’s doing this. She’s abusing an honor system that’s meant for disabled people who need actual service animals. Also, I don’t know if she can get into any kind of legal trouble for lying about her unruly pet being a service animal, but if so, I don’t want to be implicated in that.

I told her over the phone that I was not comfortable taking her to things anymore if she was going to bring her dog. She balked at this. The next day I heard from my brother (who does not live nearby) about how I was being too difficult, it’s not that big of a deal, and should just let her bring the damn dog. I said I’m not stranding her—she can get a pet-friendly ride share if she wants. Am I being unreasonable? What do I do if they continue to pressure me about this, or enlist other relatives to pressure me?

—He’s Just a Regular Pet

banana468 · June 2023

Tell your brother that if it's not that big a deal he's more than welcome to come spend weekends with your mom doing this.

Be clear: Your mom is abusing a system with her fraud, ruining it for those who actually DO have service dogs and it's affecting the workers' perceptions of YOU as a customer. You're not telling your mom no, you're putting conditions on your goodwill. It's a service car and dog free.

short+sassy · June 2023

If I worked in a public place, "Pardon me ma'am for the clarification. Is he a SERVICE animal? Or an emotional support animal?"

"Support" is a too broad, non-answer that almost literally defines her dog as an emotional support animal. ESAs have protection when it comes to housing, but not for public places.

In addition, the moment that even a legit service animal jumps on another person...even if it's friendly and no harm is caused...the owner can be legally be told to take the dog off the premises. Because service animals can be barred from a store/restaurant if they cause a disruption.

I'm with the LW, "Mom, you are bold-faced lying to people when you say he is a service animal. Plus he is ill-behaved. I'm not going to have a part and be embarrassed by any of that."

climbingsingle · June 2023

Agreed that the mother is really ruining it for people who have and need support animals. I wouldn't want to be a party to that.

VarunaTT · June 2023

This is one of the things about this world that makes me irate. Because it IS an abuse. Even therapy dogs have to go through training and personality testing to make sure they're actually safe and helpful.

I'm with LW, mainly b/c the dog seems to be misbehaving in public. I'd refuse to take her as well.

short+sassy · June 2023

VarunaTT said:

This is one of the things about this world that makes me irate. Because it IS an abuse. Even therapy dogs have to go through training and personality testing to make sure they're actually safe and helpful.

I'm with LW, mainly b/c the dog seems to be misbehaving in public. I'd refuse to take her as well.

I'm just adding this because it is a common misconception.

I'm not speaking about therapy dogs specifically. That kind of training would make sense for them.

Most people think service animals are required to have a rigorous, formal, and lengthy training. Of course, some do. Especially if the person's needs are extensive. But it's not a requirement. People can train their own service animal to help with a medical need.

Which actually is a good thing. Because if it weren't for that, it would be quite a wealth barrier for people to get service animals that have been trained by an agency who does that kind of intensive training. Those dogs go for $35K-$40K and health insurance doesn't pay for any of it.

I can give you a perfect example with something I'm very familiar with. There are diabetes dogs who have one-year of that kind of intensive training. And they can do all kinds of stuff! Detect when someone's blood sugar is too low OR too high. The dogs will retrieve glucose gels and bring it to their person when low blood sugar is detected. They are trained to go get help, if their person is unresponsive.

Fortunately, I don't have a more severe and difficult to control case of T1 diabetes. I don't need the kind of diabetes dog that has all those skills, because I manage my condition fairly well without one.

But what is scary is when I'm sleeping and may not detect that my blood glucose is falling too low. I trained my dog Izzy to detect it. It's not perfect! She's sleeps at the same time I do, plus it's not like I'm a dog trainer. But something about it must wake her up, because she'll come nudge and whine at me until I wake up. It's also happened a couple times where if my H was already up and in the living room, she'd go get him and lead him back to me. I never even trained her to do that! She just does.

She's also alerted me a few times when I'm awake. She gives me a worried look and whines. She almost never whines for any other reason. Me, "Izzy, I don't think my blood sugar is low, but I'll check. GD it! 63 and trending low. You're right again. I'll go get some juice."

VarunaTT · June 2023

I do know that. The key is that there IS training. There is a task the dog is expected to perform to help support the person they are helping. Just being a dog, is not a task. There was just an article released somewhere that businesses can actually ask to see the dog perform the service they are there for. I wish I could remember where I had read it to share it. I'll see if it's in my history somewhere.

I really don't care as long as the dog is well behaved and not a nuisance. There are people taking advantage of it in my building, which doesn't allow pets. However, all of the previous animals have been well behaved and friendly. We suddenly have 2 dogs living upstairs that are not well behaved and not friendly. I know invisible issues exist, but I doubt these dogs are truly any sort of support animal.

short+sassy · June 2023

VarunaTT said:

I do know that. The key is that there IS training. There is a task the dog is expected to perform to help support the person they are helping. Just being a dog, is not a task. There was just an article released somewhere that businesses can actually ask to see the dog perform the service they are there for. I wish I could remember where I had read it to share it. I'll see if it's in my history somewhere.

I really don't care as long as the dog is well behaved and not a nuisance. There are people taking advantage of it in my building, which doesn't allow pets. However, all of the previous animals have been well behaved and friendly. We suddenly have 2 dogs living upstairs that are not well behaved and not friendly. I know invisible issues exist, but I doubt these dogs are truly any sort of support animal.

I wasn't necessarily accusing you of not knowing. It's more when this topic comes up on large forums and everyone's saying if it was really a service animal, it wouldn't behave like that because they're well-trained. Usually with the assumption that it's always some long, formal training process. That's not necessarily true and I feel like I'm this lone voice yelling into an ocean. They are trained for a task to help a medical need. Period. That's the only requirement for a service animal. It's possible for a dog to be ill-behaved in public and still be a service animal. Their owners are jerks for that and the dog should be kicked out of the store. But the dog is still a service animal.

Or landlord forums with they say they have a disability but they obviously don't. They look fine and they have a job. If their dog was really a service animal it would need to be with them all the time. I try to inform and acknowledge that people lie and that might even be likely. But you can't look at a person and tell if they have a disability or that they need their service dog all the time. And I tell my Izzy story.

It's just a hot button topic for me. For something so important and relatively common, there's so much ignorance about it. I'm not even blaming people for not knowing (except on the landlord forums). But it is an excellent example of when an incorrect assumption is believed by more people than what the actual truth is.

Huh! I'd be curious about the law on the bolded. It can be so touchy and restrictive which I understand and medical privacy should trump a lot of things. But then the negative side is people can request major accommodations and give cagey answers as to why it's needed. And businesses don't want to press it for fear of an ADA lawsuit.

There are also tasks that a dog can't perform on command or it would be asking a lot of the person. I'd hope there would be exceptions for that. I don't take Izzy out in public anyway, other than for typical dog things like walks. But if someone wanted to see her alert me to a low blood sugar on command, I can't do that unless my blood sugar is actually low. One of the tools I used to train her was a wash cloth I had rubbed my forehead with while I was experiencing a low. But it's not like I'm going to carry that around with me, lol. I'd think there are other tasks like that also.

I also don't think a store owner wants someone faking a seizure in their store, to watch a seizure response dog perform its tasks. That would be ridiculous and demeaning for the sufferer.

kerbohl · June 2023

Whoever had my dog before me trained her to hit the "walk" button at traffic lights. I know she had mobility issues and had a walker, so it was hard to get to it to hit it. But Brunnhilde is NOT a well behaved dog. I mean, she is friendly and loves everyone, but she doesn't listen if she is told to leave someone alone.
But much as I would love to bring her in stores with me, I would never pretend she is a service animal. It is taking advantage, LW's mother is abusing a system, and people know it.

short+sassy · June 2023

kerbohl said:

Whoever had my dog before me trained her to hit the "walk" button at traffic lights. I know she had mobility issues and had a walker, so it was hard to get to it to hit it. But Brunnhilde is NOT a well behaved dog. I mean, she is friendly and loves everyone, but she doesn't listen if she is told to leave someone alone.
But much as I would love to bring her in stores with me, I would never pretend she is a service animal. It is taking advantage, LW's mother is abusing a system, and people know it.

I bet that was a fun discovery when it first happened! Surprise skills and such a good dog.

Izzy is a fairly well behaved dog, but loves people and always wants to go up to them. I control her and don't let her. But people see it and often come over and ask if it's okay to pet her. Probably why she loves people so much, lol. She doesn't usually jump on people, but has. If I regularly took her to public places, I would train her to be more reserved and to definitely not jump. But since I don't, I've never bothered. Plus, I like her happy, free spirit and my H and I like it when she jumps on us. It's like she's giving us a hug! But she's only 22 lbs., so she doesn't come up much past our knees when she stands.

One of my neighbors has an 8-month old boxer-mix puppy. He is so sweet and adorable! But he jumps and is already a big dog, even though he's still a puppy. He jumped on me the first time I met him (it was fine and I'd been warned by my H). I'm 5'0" and he was only a few inches shorter than me! The poor neighbors felt so bad and were super apologetic. They have been trying so hard to train him not to do that. But he's young, excitable, and still learning.

In my perfect world, all dogs would be well-behaved and no one would be afraid of or allergic to them. And then dogs could go with their owners everywhere and life would be more fun, at least for us dog lovers.

VarunaTT · June 2023

short+sassy said:

VarunaTT said:

I do know that. The key is that there IS training. There is a task the dog is expected to perform to help support the person they are helping. Just being a dog, is not a task. There was just an article released somewhere that businesses can actually ask to see the dog perform the service they are there for. I wish I could remember where I had read it to share it. I'll see if it's in my history somewhere.

I really don't care as long as the dog is well behaved and not a nuisance. There are people taking advantage of it in my building, which doesn't allow pets. However, all of the previous animals have been well behaved and friendly. We suddenly have 2 dogs living upstairs that are not well behaved and not friendly. I know invisible issues exist, but I doubt these dogs are truly any sort of support animal.

I wasn't necessarily accusing you of not knowing. It's more when this topic comes up on large forums and everyone's saying if it was really a service animal, it wouldn't behave like that because they're well-trained. Usually with the assumption that it's always some long, formal training process. That's not necessarily true and I feel like I'm this lone voice yelling into an ocean. They are trained for a task to help a medical need. Period. That's the only requirement for a service animal. It's possible for a dog to be ill-behaved in public and still be a service animal. Their owners are jerks for that and the dog should be kicked out of the store. But the dog is still a service animal.

Or landlord forums with they say they have a disability but they obviously don't. They look fine and they have a job. If their dog was really a service animal it would need to be with them all the time. I try to inform and acknowledge that people lie and that might even be likely. But you can't look at a person and tell if they have a disability or that they need their service dog all the time. And I tell my Izzy story.

It's just a hot button topic for me. For something so important and relatively common, there's so much ignorance about it. I'm not even blaming people for not knowing (except on the landlord forums). But it is an excellent example of when an incorrect assumption is believed by more people than what the actual truth is.

Huh! I'd be curious about the law on the bolded. It can be so touchy and restrictive which I understand and medical privacy should trump a lot of things. But then the negative side is people can request major accommodations and give cagey answers as to why it's needed. And businesses don't want to press it for fear of an ADA lawsuit.

There are also tasks that a dog can't perform on command or it would be asking a lot of the person. I'd hope there would be exceptions for that. I don't take Izzy out in public anyway, other than for typical dog things like walks. But if someone wanted to see her alert me to a low blood sugar on command, I can't do that unless my blood sugar is actually low. One of the tools I used to train her was a wash cloth I had rubbed my forehead with while I was experiencing a low. But it's not like I'm going to carry that around with me, lol. I'd think there are other tasks like that also.

I also don't think a store owner wants someone faking a seizure in their store, to watch a seizure response dog perform its tasks. That would be ridiculous and demeaning for the sufferer.

If the dog is ill behaved, the business owner can ask them to leave, even if they're a service dog. That's what was so interesting about the article, because it was geared towards dealing with the humans who just won't be separated from the pets and abuse the system. I tried to find it through my history and I honestly thought I had saved it to share, but now I can't find the damn thing.

Loads of Tiktoks have been shown where service dog handlers take the dogs out to a business to do just that as a training task for the dogs. I've always wondered if they clear it with the store managers first and store managers reactions to it. I know I'd be scared if I saw someone having a seizure, only to find out it was a training exercise.

Start refusing to go anywhere if she wants to take the dog.

Re: Start refusing to go anywhere if she wants to take the dog.

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