2024's Charlotte and Harry

mrsconn23 · August 2024

Dear Prudence,

I’m a 31-year-old female living in Chicago who happened to fall in love with an Orthodox Jewish man. I was raised Catholic in the South. We met at work, began as friends, and that friendship blossomed into a very loving, supportive relationship that I honestly never saw coming. Part of that is because I was completely closed off from love. In my 29 years before I started dating him, I never dated anyone. I had the strongest of the strongest walls up. Completely cut off from anyone that gave me anything close to intimacy. Then came him. He slowly broke down my walls, and I learned how to love, how to be there in a relationship, and how to find myself in a relationship. He treats me extremely well, loves my family, and wants to marry me.

We’ve been dating for a year a half at this point, and I’m coming to terms with the fact that I should probably convert. I kosherized my kitchen, I’ve eaten at all-kosher restaurants, I’m reading all the required books for Orthodox conversion, and I am understanding more and more about Judaism. He’s met everyone in my family, come to family events, and come home with me multiple times (I live hours away from my family). I’ve met his brothers on basically one occasion and never met his father. His mother passed away two years ago. I don’t get to attend his family holidays, as I’m not Jewish.

I lost my best friend of 15 years when I started this relationship. She didn’t agree that I should take the risk and didn’t like the difference in privacy that she and I had as I navigated this first-time relationship. She struggles with her own boundary issues that I think came into play during this new time of friendship.

So my question is this: Do I convert? My life would look different. I wouldn’t eat at the same restaurants, wouldn’t celebrate the same holidays, wouldn’t attend the same (two) religious services I grew up going to each year. I would make Shabbos each Friday evening, not using my phone or any other electricity for 25 hours every weekend. All for a man I love so dearly. So do I do it? Do I make the next step? What are your thoughts?

—Do I Convert

charlotte989875 · August 2024

Is he asking you to convert? Would you get married and have a life together if you don’t convert? Do you want to be Jewish? Can you still have a Christmas Tree if you wanted one?

There’s so many other questions not addressed here that LW Needs to answer for themselves.

MyNameIsNot · August 2024

Isn't step 1 of converting to a religion believing whatever faith they are teaching you?

I don't really think eating at a kosher restaurant is the same thing.

mrsconn23 · August 2024

Armchair psych incoming, but I find it interesting that LW hasn't dated and been rather 'closed off' to romantic dating/relationships and then this guy who's deep into his faith comes along and slowly breaks through the 'barriers'. Why did LW have such a staunch aversion to dating? What is/was it about *this* guy that broke through? Is part of the reason you're attracted to him because he is so devout and steady in his faith and that seems somehow to 'safe' to you? Does the structure this type of faith offers give you a feeling of comfort/security along with being with the man?

But those hesitations are important. Think about them. Does this feel like it fundamentally change something about you as a person? Are you OK with those changes? Is there *any* room for him to blend in any of your traditions into your shared life? A lot of your letter is about adopting *his* way of life. Will you feel like you've lost something if you abandon everything about your faith of the past? Can you reconcile with that?

banana468 · August 2024

mrsconn23 said:

Armchair psych incoming, but I find it interesting that LW hasn't dated and been rather 'closed off' to romantic dating/relationships and then this guy who's deep into his faith comes along and slowly breaks through the 'barriers'. Why did LW have such a staunch aversion to dating? What is/was it about *this* guy that broke through? Is part of the reason you're attracted to him because he is so devout and steady in his faith and that seems somehow to 'safe' to you? Does the structure this type of faith offers give you a feeling of comfort/security along with being with the man?

But those hesitations are important. Think about them. Does this feel like it fundamentally change something about you as a person? Are you OK with those changes? Is there *any* room for him to blend in any of your traditions into your shared life? A lot of your letter is about adopting *his* way of life. Will you feel like you've lost something if you abandon everything about your faith of the past? Can you reconcile with that?

All of this. DH wasn't my first relationship and it worked out that after we started dating he told me he was also Catholic. While converting is something others have done and obviously it was depicted in SATC, that's a huge ask and it's not something Prudie can answer.

LW needs to be really introspective here about who they are, the relationship and their faith. I'd find it really suspect that this is the person's first relationship and now suddenly they're open to consider changing who they are.

Casadena · August 2024

If he's already dating you, LW, i would think he's either ok with you never converting if you don't want to - or not actually as devout as you think? Most Orthodox Jewish people I know (and it's definitely a small group) wouldn't date outside their faith and often don't even "date" in the traditional way most americans think about. This is just my observation with the small group that i have familiar with and in no way represents all Jewish people. Orthodox is not always the same as "observant". Just something to consider.

Anyway, don't convert for a relationship. If you truly BELIEVE all the things that Judaism practices and believes, then by all means, look into it. But 1) he hasn't asked you to and 2) you dont' seem to actually want to be Jewish.

MesmrEwe · August 2024

Short answer - No...

Longer answer - there is a huge difference between living a lifestyle and believing that which that specific religion believes. An Easter Lily/Christmas Cacti Catholic vs. Orthodox Jewish, sns, if it's too difficult to show up once a week and a few Holy Days of Obligation as a Catholic, following the rules of the Orthodox Jewish Faith is going to be a culture shock of monumental proportions woefully beyond a few food rules for all things Kosher! Also, as a Gentile, she could make bank being the one allowed to flip the light switches, etc. (ETA: Learned that from a Rabbi's Wife!!! By far one of the neatest discussions of all things Orthodox Jewish I'd ever had!!!)

short+sassy · August 2024

MesmrEwe said:

Short answer - No...

Longer answer - there is a huge difference between living a lifestyle and believing that which that specific religion believes. An Easter Lily/Christmas Cacti Catholic vs. Orthodox Jewish, sns, if it's too difficult to show up once a week and a few Holy Days of Obligation as a Catholic, following the rules of the Orthodox Jewish Faith is going to be a culture shock of monumental proportions woefully beyond a few food rules for all things Kosher! Also, as a Gentile, she could make bank being the one allowed to flip the light switches, etc. (ETA: Learned that from a Rabbi's Wife!!! By far one of the neatest discussions of all things Orthodox Jewish I'd ever had!!!)

When my H and I evacuated for Hurricane Katrina, we ended up living in Miami for three months. We wound up in an area called Bal Harbor. It was a sweet location! On the same island as South Beach, but on the northern end.

It had a large population of Orthodox Jews. I wish I had known this job opportunity existed! But we did sometimes help one of our neighbors with those kinds of things. Apparently we should have been charging them (kidding!).

Living amongst folks who follow the Sabbath did become an unexpected benefit during Hurricane Wilma. Because of course a hurricane hit Miami while we were there evacuated from another one. We had filled up our tank before it hit. Standard impending hurricane protocol, lol. The hurricane hits and power is out across the whole city. Those first few days, there were a few gas stations operating with a generator and they had 8-10 hour lines!

We were doing okay on gas for about a week and power had been restored to our neighborhood after 4 days. But even after a week and with some power restored, gas lines were still about 2 hours long throughout the city.

Then it hits me! Get gas on Saturday! A decent sized percentage of my neighborhood will not be driving. I was in and out of our local gas station in 20 minutes. Woo hoo!

Imagine driving through a major city with no stop lights working. Where even on a good day, the drivers are some of the worst in the country. Yeah. That was Miami for the week after Wilma. It was like the Wild West out on the road.

MyNameIsNot · August 2024

I have a friend who grew up Jewish in a family that wasn't orthodox but adhered to some of those customs, although he doesn't really anymore. They're also huge college football fans. At 40 something years old, he still goes by his dad's house every Saturday in the fall to turn on the Georgia game.

You're giving me flashbacks from Wilma. I was living in Key West at the time. We had the opposite problem with cars. The highest point on the island is about 6 feet above sea level and the storm surge was higher than that, so literally everything flooded. Most cars do not do well after being submerged in several feet of salt water, so most people's cars were totaled. It was months before the local car dealerships were able to bring down any inventory, so there were a couple of weeks where there were very few functioning cars. We felt like people from the 1800s staring dumbfounded if we happened to see a car go by.

short+sassy · August 2024

MyNameIsNot said:

I have a friend who grew up Jewish in a family that wasn't orthodox but adhered to some of those customs, although he doesn't really anymore. They're also huge college football fans. At 40 something years old, he still goes by his dad's house every Saturday in the fall to turn on the Georgia game.

You're giving me flashbacks from Wilma. I was living in Key West at the time. We had the opposite problem with cars. The highest point on the island is about 6 feet above sea level and the storm surge was higher than that, so literally everything flooded. Most cars do not do well after being submerged in several feet of salt water, so most people's cars were totaled. It was months before the local car dealerships were able to bring down any inventory, so there were a couple of weeks where there were very few functioning cars. We felt like people from the 1800s staring dumbfounded if we happened to see a car go by.

Oh, wow! I remember Key West was very hard hit from Wilma. I'm sorry you had to experience that.

When we returned to NOLA, there were flooded cars everywhere! But it didn't flood in the suburbs and most of the city evacuated, so there were still working cars around as people started trickling back to town.

With that said, there was a huge demand for cars/furniture/appliances for the next year and those items were pretty scarce for the first 6ish months. Everyone had to throw their fridges out because it is not pretty what happens to unrefrigerated food even after a few days. Much less for weeks.

Rental and home prices doubled/tripled in value overnight for the properties that survived. We were renters back then and were super lucky that we had just signed a year-long lease. We had finished moving the last of our stuff, the week before Katrina! It was a raised house, about 2.5' off the ground and on slightly higher ground than the surrounding neighborhood, and it so thankfully didn't flood. But it was close! The water marks were halfway up the stairs.

We didn't know what had happened to the house until 6 weeks after the storm when our landlady could get into the city to check it out. My H and I had already decided that if the house was flooded, we would go back to salvage what belongings we could and move to a totally different state. We didn't have the heart to talk about "where" and decided not to think about it, unless we needed to make that step.

2024's Charlotte and Harry

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