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Wedding Woes

Different Slate column: for interesting discussion

My first husband “Tom” is a self-described feminist with a commitment to equality and dedication to his nonprofit work to make the world a better place. A guy who always uses the right language. But he was a people pleaser who always put himself and our family last. With the landlord, I was willing to be the one who fought for our family. But I needed him to take my side about things like requiring his parents to get MMR vaccines to meet the newborn, or standing up to a neighbor who wouldn’t stop catcalling me. When I couldn’t support us 80 percent on my salary, he refused to compromise his values by looking for a higher paying job. I divorced him five years ago, and he now has weekend custody of our boys, ages 13 and 15. We have an OK parenting relationship, except for what he says about my fiancé “Cyrus.”

Tom insists that Cyrus is a “toxic male influence” on the boys. I can’t tell if this is as big an issue as he claims, and I don’t know what’s right.

Cyrus and I have been together for three years. He’s loving but more conventional. We share the same core values and votes. He’s kind and generous: he’ll stop for a stranger with a flat on the freeway, he’ll break up a homophobic incident in a bar. But he’s blue-collar and less PC, and he puts himself and our family first if needed. He also values a lot of “stereotypical” masculine traits: strength, leadership, financial support. He loves my boys, they love him. And he’s endlessly patient as they learn new things. He encourages them to do outdoor stuff with him, participate in sports, and get good grades to “become men.” He also encourages their hobbies like art and baking. The boys feel happy and not pushed into stuff, when I’ve asked them privately. But they’re teenagers, not men! When a neighbor had a destructive money-pit of an affair and hurt his kids and wife, Cyrus flatly labeled it “unmanly behavior.” When a classmate cheated on an exam, he said the same to the boys. It’s his catch-all label for guys who hurt others, who skip out of responsibilities, or who don’t make an honest effort. He never says it’s “girly,” or treats women disrespectfully, but it’s not exactly progressive. If a woman does something similar (steal or lie) he’ll just describe it as “bad.” Tom says the language around being “unmanly” will ruin our kids, and I’m worried I’m too smitten to see a problem. Should I be intervening here?

—Unsure

Re: Different Slate column: for interesting discussion

  • I don't think it'll ruin the kids, but I'd stop the "this is the right manly thing".  It can just be "the right thing", gender doesn't have to come into it.
  • There's something off in this letter.  Why can't you talk to your FI that calling anything 'unmanly' is in itself ascribing characteristics to men vs. women vs. just being good?  


  • This is weird. I feel like LW is intentionally hiding or downplaying Cyrus. But a lot of his language feels like a dog whistle to me. 
  • This feels off to me- encouraging boys to stand up for others, take responsibility for their actions, help people who need is all great, but it’s great for girls to learn those things too. That he’s gendering it is concerning. 

    Take a step back and see how he describes women, roles around the house, how he handles when you and the boys are upset- is he downplaying emotions, other red flags? Gendering positive traits is enough to give me some pause here. 
  • Ugh this is why toxic masculinity hurts everyone. 

    We are in such a toxic fucked up place in society that honestly, yeah, I do wish more men called out shitty behavior in other men as "unmanly" because it honestly seems like the only way men change is from pressure from other men in this disaster of a patriarchal society. I also believe that approach is deeply problematic but I'm at a loss of how to start general change otherwise because at this point it feels like everything else is failing. Of course I believe that being a good person is independent of gender and we should all make an effort to separate attributes from gender. 

    Overall there's something in the letter which is feeling off to me. I can't quite put my finger on it and always gendering things isn't great and I'd love to see how he actually talks about gender roles and how he engages with being a partner in the home. That being said, I am also sick of performative feminism in men. Say the right thing and then stand behind it. Your words are absolutely meaningless if you don't put action behind them. You don't think your kids are learning that as long as you say the "right" thing, you can turn around and do nothing about injustice? So ex-H is also a problem here. 


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