HTB won't go to premarital counseling.....

tiffinyadams · March 2010

The pastor I want and like requires premarital counseling. He is the pastor at MIL's church where I occasionally attend. I'm not crazy about marriage counseling either but I want someone that means something to me to marry us and it can't hurt. My HTB refuses to go and he told MIL we would only go with the pastor if the marraige counseling wasn't required. She told him that she'd talked to the paster and he said that we didn't have to do but he told me it is a requirement. Now HTB feels like his mom was trying to trick him and I'm stuck in the middle! Any advice?!

SaraAndrew2010 · March 2010

Why does your fiance refuse to go to premarital counseling? My FI isn't crazy about doing counseling, but he understands that it's part of the process and is important to me. To me it would raise a red flag if he flat out refuses to go. Marriage is supposed to be about compromise after all.

trix1223 · March 2010

The church in which I work won't marry couples at all without premarital counseling. It's just a great chance to be sure that you're on the same page with things like finances, children, religion, and the other issues that cause marriages to end.

I'd be concerned about what your FI is afraid of, myself. His refusal to go with you would make me think twice about this.

LesPaul · March 2010

If it's important to you, it should be important to him. You're not asking for a 5 year counseling commitment - most pre-marital counseling is just a few sessions. It shouldn't be a dealbreaker . . . what is his big objection?

MsBunny312 · March 2010

I really recommend premarital counseling. I think it's a great way to address issues that you hadn't thought of before. Perhaps you could find a secular counselor to do the premarriage counseling — maybe it's the idea of the pastor doing it that skeeves out your FH.

racheladine · March 2010

You know, my FI was the same way for awhile--until I fully explained what pre-marriage counseling IS. Some men have a preconceived notion that it actually causes more problems and gives the bride a chance to "change" their man.

Maybe explain that it's a simple way to evaluate how you communicate and interact, and to get an objective view on ways that you guys can work together better as a couple? The fact that he's refusing to go to counseling just proves more that he needs it. He should be learning to work with you and respect your views, just as you will have to do the same for him one day.

I wish you all the best luck in this hun

WhatawagSBNy · March 2010

    A lot of people think pre-marital counseling is like Marriage counseling and many kinds of therapy :

   You only go when the relationship is broken, and you are expected to open up your innermost personal thoughts and secrets.

    The point for most ministers, is to encourage couples to open up to each other, and talk about important issues with each other.

   It does invade a person's privacy, greatly, to discuss personal , intimate things in front of a 3rd party.

    If HTB does not feel any personal connection with the church or the pastor, it is entirely reasonable for him to refuse.

   He may feel about this the way you would if your boss from work was invited to observe, while standing between your spread legs, at a GYN pelvic exam.

    Sure, you may relate to the man at work, just as your HTB respects this man as a leader of his Mom's church.
But when what you are asking is for someone to tiptoe through his mind/ personal feelings, it is unfair to make mandatory such a thing.

    It is reasonable for you to want a way to communicate functionally when married. Another situation, another counsellor, or even doing a workbook exercise leading you to talk with each other, would be a reasonable compromise for him to make.

    But for someone like his mother to say - not required and lead him on, basically a lie, then tell him he must do it?   Unfair.

    Find another church, or a venue, that does not require it.   As his FI / wife there are many things he owes you, including working on things if problems arise.

   But preventive measures are optional. Husbands and wives are entitled to their own personal thoughts, and religious practices and beliefs. This is something you may ask, not require.

   In a way, you have learned some things about your HTB.
He has strong personal boundaries.
He will not be pushed around by his mother, who may have bent the truth in the past, to get her way.
He will not jump through someone else's hoops (pastor) when he sees no valid reason, and does not want what is on the other side - this church and pastor, as they are now.

This does not mean that he does not want to marry you. He is rejecting someone dictating his religious practices, specifically, this church pastor.

Find someplace else. He is too old for Mommy to say, now open up for the doctor, he is just trying to help.

maratea · March 2010

My H was the same way, refused to go, whined about it all the time. He finally agreed, and it turned out to be a great thing. We did learn alot during the counseling, even though we'd been living together for 2 years before. H confessed that the reason he didn't want to go was because he didn't want to have to answer the awkward questions- "Are you living together before marriage? Are you having sex before marriage?"

aerinpegadrak · March 2010

We mutually decided that we didn't need the pre-marital counseling. But had it been important to me, FI would have put up with it. Had it been important to FI, I would have put up with it. We both do little things all the time that we might not be thrilled with in order to make the other person happy, that's part of being in a relationship.

You need to get to the bottom of your FI's refusal to go through with this. That's a gigantic red flag.

duckie1905 · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_htb-wont-premarital-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:db3094cf-614e-4f62-a715-3ff2d4f692abPost:940c8e0f-3d89-46ce-a1ed-a0a4edbcc81a">Re: HTB won't go to premarital counseling.....</a>:
[QUOTE]I would worry about why he's refusing. That sends up a red flag to me. If he's not willing to put in a little effort now, while your relationship is great, how is he going to be down the line when you have a problem?
Posted by MyNameIsNot[/QUOTE]

100% agree with this. What happens when you hit a pothole and need help? Is he going to refuse to work for it then, too?

jenn.daniel · March 2010

This isn't quite the same thing, but FI got concerned inthe bookstore when I said I was going to get "The Five Love Languages". He was afraid I thought there was something wrong in our relationship, but he was ok when I explained that I think things are great but they can always be better. Maybe if you reassure him that you aren't doing it because of problems, he'll be more willing to participate.

TurtlesAllTheWayDown · March 2010

I'd recommend this book, or something similar:

http://www.amazon.com/1001-Questions-Ask-Before-Married/dp/0071438033

Look over it, have your FI look over it, and explain that this is the kind of things you'll be discussing in pre-marital counseling. I agree that if he refuses to communicate about this, it is a red flag.

villaoy · March 2010

I agree with what everyone has said. We just started our first pre-marital session and we had a great time. My HTB was also slightly hesistant. The priest understands that some men are just not willing to go. He made us feel at ease right away. Maybe you can explain to you're soon-to-be that no one is going to judge him, change him or anything. It's simply an open discussion about your future together as a couple. Best of Luck!

erollis · March 2010

Everyone is right. He may have the wrong impression of premarital counsling. Also he should go if you feel it is a good thing and you want to do it. Talk it out with him and see if he can be swayed. Also some places require you to have counsling to get married in there church. I see how this is a sticky situation for you.

Some people don't need or want premarital counsling for various reasons. If you both do not want to do it then that is fine since it was a mutual agreement.

If he still refuses to go and you would like to this is a Red Flag! An old friend got married several years ago and they did not end up doing premarital counsling. He refused to do it even though she wanted to (it was also strongly advised since it was a whirlwind romance). All the bms got strange vibs from him so we did a background check and found nothing. So everyone felt ok but me (this ended up causing drama for years to come). Turns out the guy was abusive (sexually, mentally, and emotionally) and he tried cutting all her ties with friends and family. He was very manipulative and an alcoholic. She eventually saw the light (when he got arested for salisiting to a minor while at work/ abusing his power) and got the curage to seperate from the guy (they are still legally married and Still "trying to work things out"). This is a worst case sanario.

Good luck. You will be fine.

WhatawagSBNy · March 2010

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/wedding-boards_customs-traditions_htb-wont-premarital-counseling?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Wedding BoardsForum:36Discussion:db3094cf-614e-4f62-a715-3ff2d4f692abPost:dea1b322-0e5b-44fc-a959-6293e3837870">Re: HTB won't go to premarital counseling.....</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: HTB won't go to premarital counseling..... : 100% agree with this. <font color="#0000ff">What happens when you hit a pothole and need help? Is he going to refuse to work for it then, too?
</font>Posted by duckie1905[/QUOTE]

The flip side of this arguement is:

    you call AAA and then a repair garage when you get a broken axle.   You do not call them to check out every road you will ever drive, just in case someone foresees the possibility you might have a problem next month or 3 years from now.

     While I personally see a place for pre-marital counseling, especially for people with very different social, religious, and cultural backgrounds, I do not think it should be forced on anyone who does not want it.

     Certainly not with a condition, do it or you cannot marry in this church.

jeb113 · March 2010

In response to:
you call AAA and then a repair garage when you get a broken axle. You do not call them to check out every road you will ever drive, just in case someone foresees the possibility you might have a problem next month or 3 years from now.

You don't call to check everything out on your car but you do change your oil, check your fluids, and perform routine maintenance to avoid future problems...sure if you don't do this it doesn't mean that you will have problems for sure but don't you want to do everything you can in the beginning to avoid costly problems in the end?? That's what PM counseling is..doing what you can to avoid problems later and making it work the best it can! Just something to think about! Good luck

(by the way, my fiance and I didn't want to go either but it ended up being pretty fun and made us discuss things that we had never thought of to discuss before despite being together for 5 years and living together for 3)

WhatawagSBNy · March 2010

We went to pre-Cana, even though not marrying in the (or any) RC church.   I am glad we did.

But it was not with a pastor we would necessarily ever see again.
And no one required it of me - I thought it might give me some insight into Catholic doctrine, and marrying someone raised Catholic, it seemed a good idea.

It was not coerced - as in - Mom wants you to marry in this church, and spouse to be will be upset if you can't marry in this particular church with this pastor. And pastor will not marry you without it.

   I see no mention the OP says she would want any pre-marital counseling if not to satisfy this pastor.

    Counseling not entered into willingly is useless.

    I find any religious requirement that is coerced to be offensive.

   So I guess we will have to disagree.

   The biggest red flag I see here, one destructive to a relationship and to a marriage, is that OP is willing to twist her FI's arm to do this which he does not want, just so she can marry in this church, which is not even her own.  She only "occasionally" attends and calls it Mother's church, not even her own.

   She clearly says, she is not particularly pro counseling - just "it can't hurt" and she likes the pastor.

   One does not pressure one's FI or spouse to do something he is adamantly opposed to, which requires disclosing a lot of very personal feelings and circumstances, to have a nice man they like in a nice church marry them.

   She is pressuring him for all the wrong reasons, to get something she wants, totally un-related to religious beliefs.   If I were her FI, I would have serious reservations about marrying HER.

      I would not consider joining a church and going through lessons in religious doctrine, or converting religions, to make DH happy, because he thought a particular priest is nice. I think OP's expectation is unfair to her FI.

ellen73 · March 2010

We are both Catholic and knew pre-cana/marriage prep was a part of the process. We were asked to take the FOCCUS questionnaire (it is not a test, as they will tell you a thousand times- but it really kinda is!). FOCCUS was developed by marriage counselors in the 70s- and has questions about family of origin (how you were each raised), future expectations, work, delegation of household responsibilities, LOTS of financial quesitons, and some religion/spirituality (i.e. areas that are likely to cause conflict in the future, based on the experience of these marriage counselers). There are no "right" or "wrong" answers- it's more to make sure you've talked about things and to make sure you are on the same page before you enter into marriage. They have some "red flag"/key questions. For example, you spend money like there is no tomorrow, and your future spouse is the opposite. Or how you will raise possible future children and what expectations are (who will stay home initially, who will stay home if a kid is sick, etc). We had talked about most of the key questions in the six weeks before we got engaged (once we were more serious than we had been), and found that our results helped us to continue to talk about the details. Many things we hadn't talked about in detail or one of us didn't think he conversation was completely over. Basically it helped us continue to communicate our thoughts and beliefs to each other well beyond the hour or two we spent with the priest. My fiance even brought his copy of the results on vacation with us- which was great! We spent a couple hours completely focused on our relationship, without getting distracted by work, wedding planning, families, etc!

I have a friend who I think went through one of the books mentioned above with her now husband. They still did an entire weekend of pre-cana, and took the FOCCUS exam, and still they got something out of it.

The pastor/minister/etc. probably just wants to make sure you have to tools you need to create a strong marriage. I would try to sell it like that, if I were you!

My fiance said that pre-cana/counseling was less painful than going to a mall to register for gifts!

Good luck!

felicia220 · March 2010

Do you know anyone else who is close to your FI that has gone to the counseling? Maybe they could talk to him and tell him what it is really like. I always thought that pre cana was crazy but friends of ours just attended one and it was not what I thought it would, well not entirely. I wouldn't take it as a red flag, he may have very simply reasons for not wanting to go (e.i. Not comfortable with talking to a "stranger", not religious, etc.)

My FI and I have been together for 10 years and did not feel it was necessary. But honestly there is always room for improvement as a relationship is hard work and you as people you are always changing. For us, the hardest thing to talk about was money, but now we can talk about it with ease. These are the types of things you talk about in counseling, maybe your FI doesn't know that. I just googled "premarital counseling questionaire" and a ton of stuff came up. Maybe you can show it to him and he can get a better idea of what it is like. Hope this helps

katielea2 · March 2010

Most churches require premarital counseling. We just went recently and it wasn't anything scary. She just asked about our childhood, asked how we argued, and asked about future children (cuz that becomes an issue after marriage cuz outsiders then start asking immediately). Then she suggested going to marriage counseling a couple times a year when things are great, so when things are bad it won't be such a big deal to do marriage counseling! She didn't talk about premarital sex and she didn't preach to us. It was a pleasant experiance!

MrsParker6411 · March 2010

Our pastor also wants premarital counceling. I was against it at first too. i felt that we have a great relationship and dont need it. we never fight, we support eachother completely, and love eachother more than anything. I told the pastor that, and he said "counseiling's not about fixing whats broken, its about maintaining what you already have. Once your relationships broken it most likely can't be fixed" tell your FI that and i bet he'll change his mind. it worked for me!

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