WWYD? Bible verse from a doctor's office

holyguacamole79

While I was at my doctor's appointment this morning, the nurse and I started chatting (she had to observe me after my shot to make sure I didn't pass out or something, so we got to talking).  When she was initially collecting my symptoms, I commented that I had experienced them while I was at church on Sunday.  So, she knew that I was a Christian in some capacity.

She told me this story.  Several years ago, she worked for a different physician.  One day, the network at the office was unavailable and a patient was insisting that she needed a copy of some test results via email.  In an effort to help the patient, the nurse sent the email from her personal account (which, I agree, could have gotten her into even more trouble considering patient privacy).  The nurse's personal email account had an automatic signature with the scripture passage Romans 8:28 in it (clicky for the verse).  The patient was furious and contacted the office manager of the physician's office, who contacted the physician as well.  The nurse was not disciplined (except to say to not use personal email for that purpose any more).  The patient left the practice as a result of the email.

What say you Knotties?  Should the doctor have taken more action against the nurse?  Was the patient overreacting?  I'm just curious to hear what people think about this.

photokitty

I think that she was appropriately disciplined for the transgression - using her personal email.

I'm guessing the practice didn't mourn the loss of what sounds like an unreasonable and demanding patient. 

blabla89

I could understand the patient being upset by it if the verse were attached to the nurse's official office email, but it wasn't. It sounds like the nurse went out of her way to help the patient get what the documentation they needed, and it sounds like the patient wasn't appreciative at all.

With that said, the nurse could have potentially violated patient privacy, which is a big deal. Having an office policy on use of personal email at the office could have avoided the situation entirely.

pinkcow13

I think the patient was overreacting. If there was anything to complain about, it would be the fact that the results were sent over a personal email, and not the work email. Not the fact that she had a bible quote as her signature. 

I think some people just like to complain like it is their job. This nurse got the patient the damn results, and they still found something to complain about! Pretty ridiculous, if you ask me.

I do think the doctor should have taken more action due to the fact that she disclosed results via personal email, though. 

OliveOilsMom

I think the nurse was just trying to help the patient.  Many people don't even remember that they have a set signature because it gets automatically added.  I do think the patient overreacted, but I also think the doctor should have done more.  This could have been a very serious Doctor/Patient confidentiality breach.

holyguacamole79

As someone who has worked in a doctor's office before (my dad is a dentist), my eyes got really wide when she said that she used her personal email.  My dad would have been livid if I had ever done anything like that while working for him (sending business email via my personal account).  I mean, I get trying to help a person out, but that should have never been done from a personal email account (regardless of the signature).

KatieinBkln

Yeah, I get it that people can find unsolicited Bible verses annoying. I certainly do. But leaving the practice over it? That patient was overreacting (if, in fact, she left because of the verse. If it were me, I might have left over the possible privacy breach).

It sucks that people have to be so very careful about email security, but I completely understand why a healthcare pro needs to be. She was entitled to have a verse in her personal email signature, but I suppose she shouldn't be surprised if people take offense when she uses it in a professional capacity. I can see why it would especially sting for her, given that she was trying to do something nice. But overall I think she should count herself lucky that her momentary lapse in good judgment (using that email, not having the verse) didn't cost her more.

mschristie123

Yeah that is certainly a humogous HIPAA violation, but that's about it. I say good riddance to that patient.

holyguacamole79

KatieinBkln, from what the nurse told me, the patient left because of the verse.  I imagine she wasn't terribly unhappy about the privacy breach since she had been the one insisting that the nurse find a way to get her the information. 

southernbelle0915

The bible verse is the least of the issues I see here.

This office is lucky the patient was pissed about the bible verse and not the privacy regulations that the nurse violated. If the patient wanted to, they could easily report this to HHS OCR and make a solid case. This office is lucky they simply left the practice.

Whether or not she is disciplined shouldn't just be a result of her actions. Physician offices are required to train their staff on privacy. This office may have had shitty (or worse, non-existent) training to where she didn't see it as wrong and actually thought she was helping.

climbingsingle

I think the patient overreacted. And honestly, I'm someone that finds bible verses on things like emails really annoying. 

If it were me, I wouldn't have even mentioned it. It was her personal email. I don't even know if I would have mentioned it if it was on her work email. I probably would have been annoyed for 30 seconds and then moved on. 

KatieinBkln

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln, from what the nurse told me, the patient left because of the verse.  I imagine she wasn't terribly unhappy about the privacy breach since she had been the one insisting that the nurse find a way to get her the information. 

Right, it just seems SO ridiculous to me that I almost wonder if "I'm leaving because of the Bible verse!" was a lie or only part of the truth and the patient had other reasons for going that she didn't care to enumerate.

holyguacamole79

KatieinBkln said:

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln, from what the nurse told me, the patient left because of the verse.  I imagine she wasn't terribly unhappy about the privacy breach since she had been the one insisting that the nurse find a way to get her the information. 

Right, it just seems SO ridiculous to me that I almost wonder if "I'm leaving because of the Bible verse!" was a lie or only part of the truth and the patient had other reasons for going that she didn't care to enumerate.

I dunno.  I was telling this story to my mom on my way home (she was also shocked by the privacy error).  She told me that a good friend of ours (who is also a dentist) recently hired an African American man as a hygienist.  She said that the patient took one look at him and said "Who are you?"  and demanded to speak to the dentist.  She complained to him that she would not have her teeth cleaned by him (and used a colorful slur).  His reply was "well, I guess you won't have your teeth cleaned at our office anymore."

People are interesting.

chibiyui

The privacy breach is what bothers me.

The only way I'd leave a practice over the bible verse would be if I was still fairly new to it. Or if I was already unhappy with the practice. But the privacy trumps the verse.

banana468

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln said:

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln, from what the nurse told me, the patient left because of the verse.  I imagine she wasn't terribly unhappy about the privacy breach since she had been the one insisting that the nurse find a way to get her the information. 

Right, it just seems SO ridiculous to me that I almost wonder if "I'm leaving because of the Bible verse!" was a lie or only part of the truth and the patient had other reasons for going that she didn't care to enumerate.

I dunno.  I was telling this story to my mom on my way home (she was also shocked by the privacy error).  She told me that a good friend of ours (who is also a dentist) recently hired an African American man as a hygienist.  She said that the patient took one look at him and said "Who are you?"  and demanded to speak to the dentist.  She complained to him that she would not have her teeth cleaned by him (and used a colorful slur).  His reply was "well, I guess you won't have your teeth cleaned at our office anymore."

People are interesting.


My FIL head that happen to him (he's the VP of a home heating oil company). One of their servicemen showed up to a home and he was greeted by the owner's daughter hurling racial obscenities. FIL called them to say they needed to find a new oil supplier.

In the OP, the patient sounds like someone who needs to be pissed at something.

larrygaga

Patient was overreacting. It was a mistake and unprofessional, but if that gets your panties in bunch over this then I can't imagine how crappy your life must be miserable.

esstee33

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln said:

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln, from what the nurse told me, the patient left because of the verse.  I imagine she wasn't terribly unhappy about the privacy breach since she had been the one insisting that the nurse find a way to get her the information. 

Right, it just seems SO ridiculous to me that I almost wonder if "I'm leaving because of the Bible verse!" was a lie or only part of the truth and the patient had other reasons for going that she didn't care to enumerate.

I dunno.  I was telling this story to my mom on my way home (she was also shocked by the privacy error).  She told me that a good friend of ours (who is also a dentist) recently hired an African American man as a hygienist.  She said that the patient took one look at him and said "Who are you?"  and demanded to speak to the dentist.  She complained to him that she would not have her teeth cleaned by him (and used a colorful slur).  His reply was "well, I guess you won't have your teeth cleaned at our office anymore."

People are interesting disgusting.

FTFY. 

Also, I can see why the patient could be upset by the verse, but to leave over it? Yeah, lady, people have different beliefs, and considering that the vast majority of Americans consider themselves to be Christians, it's something you should expect to encounter pretty regularly. I'd be irritated by the verse if it were in her work email signature, but it's her personal email. Get over it. 

KatieinBkln

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln said:

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln, from what the nurse told me, the patient left because of the verse.  I imagine she wasn't terribly unhappy about the privacy breach since she had been the one insisting that the nurse find a way to get her the information. 

Right, it just seems SO ridiculous to me that I almost wonder if "I'm leaving because of the Bible verse!" was a lie or only part of the truth and the patient had other reasons for going that she didn't care to enumerate.

I dunno.  I was telling this story to my mom on my way home (she was also shocked by the privacy error).  She told me that a good friend of ours (who is also a dentist) recently hired an African American man as a hygienist.  She said that the patient took one look at him and said "Who are you?"  and demanded to speak to the dentist.  She complained to him that she would not have her teeth cleaned by him (and used a colorful slur).  His reply was "well, I guess you won't have your teeth cleaned at our office anymore."

People are interesting.

That they are. Not sure I would compare this to virulent racism though. (Unless the patient unleashed a stream of hateful anti-Christian vitriol on her way out the door? Still, I think people can have a reasonable expectation of freedom from religion at their doctor's office, whereas an expectation of "freedom from black people" is unreasonable and disgusting).

theartistformerlyknownas

I don't think she should have been punished further, and I wouldn't be upset about privacy OR whatever Bible verse if I was the one insisting that she get me my results. This patient sounds like a loon.

levioosa

The privacy is a much bigger deal than the verse, IMO.  The way you described it seems like she would have been fine with a signature quote from, say, Confucius.  But to leave over a verse just seems really petty.  Be concerned with the privacy breech, not an unintentional Bible verse.  *smh* people. 

KatieinBkln

levioosa said:

The privacy is a much bigger deal than the verse, IMO.  The way you described it seems like she would have been fine with a signature quote from, say, Confucius.  But to leave over a verse just seems really petty.  Be concerned with the privacy breech, not an unintentional Bible verse.  *smh* people. 

Unintentional Bible Verse is the new name of my upcoming single.

kat1114

Patient was really overreacting. I can't even see complaining, but if you feel some action needs to be taken, I could see making a comment then letting it go. Up and leaving the practice seems a bit extreme.

huskypuppy14

lolo883 said:

I don't think she should have been punished further, and I wouldn't be upset about privacy OR whatever Bible verse if I was the one insisting that she get me my results. This patient sounds like a loon.

Agree.

Yes, the nurse made a mistake using her personal email, but the patient is the one who insisted that she needed those results. I'm curious though if the network was down, how did the results even get to the nurses personal email? 

Honestly, I think if the nurse said, sorry our server is down you'll have to wait until it's back up before I can email it, then she would have been pissed over that too. 

cafarrie

I think the patient is SUPER overreacting about the Bible verse.  I work for a hospital and if we'd get in SO much trouble for conducting any business via personal means (she could have faxed to an email address, or called with the results) - I understand she was trying to help, but that's a huge no-no.  The fact that there was a bible verse in her signature is fine - the fact that the patient didn't like that is fine (that's her prerogative) , but it depends on the rules of the company how much trouble she got into.  

The hospital where I work is a owned by a Christian corporation (lots of health systems and independent hospitals are) so we get a company-wide emailed prayer every morning and lots of people have bible verses as signatures.  Not sure if that was the case with this nurse's former employer, but here it's totally commonplace.  Sending test results via personal email would be grounds for termination. 

Edit:spelling is hard

jdluvr06

I think the person overreacted about the Bible verse. I'd be more upset over the possible privacy violations. I'm used to seeing religious text as email signatures though so it is something I probably wouldn't have even noticed.

holyguacamole79

KatieinBkln said:

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln said:

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln, from what the nurse told me, the patient left because of the verse.  I imagine she wasn't terribly unhappy about the privacy breach since she had been the one insisting that the nurse find a way to get her the information. 

Right, it just seems SO ridiculous to me that I almost wonder if "I'm leaving because of the Bible verse!" was a lie or only part of the truth and the patient had other reasons for going that she didn't care to enumerate.

I dunno.  I was telling this story to my mom on my way home (she was also shocked by the privacy error).  She told me that a good friend of ours (who is also a dentist) recently hired an African American man as a hygienist.  She said that the patient took one look at him and said "Who are you?"  and demanded to speak to the dentist.  She complained to him that she would not have her teeth cleaned by him (and used a colorful slur).  His reply was "well, I guess you won't have your teeth cleaned at our office anymore."

People are interesting.

That they are. Not sure I would compare this to virulent racism though. (Unless the patient unleashed a stream of hateful anti-Christian vitriol on her way out the door? Still, I think people can have a reasonable expectation of freedom from religion at their doctor's office, whereas an expectation of "freedom from black people" is unreasonable and disgusting).

I didn't mean to draw any correlation there, but I can see how it came across that way.  My apologies.  The story just reminded my mom of the other incident, that's all.  I absolutely 100% agree that the racist patient was WAY more out of line than the no-Bible-verse patient. 

KatieinBkln

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln said:

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln said:

sarahbear31 said:

KatieinBkln, from what the nurse told me, the patient left because of the verse.  I imagine she wasn't terribly unhappy about the privacy breach since she had been the one insisting that the nurse find a way to get her the information. 

Right, it just seems SO ridiculous to me that I almost wonder if "I'm leaving because of the Bible verse!" was a lie or only part of the truth and the patient had other reasons for going that she didn't care to enumerate.

I dunno.  I was telling this story to my mom on my way home (she was also shocked by the privacy error).  She told me that a good friend of ours (who is also a dentist) recently hired an African American man as a hygienist.  She said that the patient took one look at him and said "Who are you?"  and demanded to speak to the dentist.  She complained to him that she would not have her teeth cleaned by him (and used a colorful slur).  His reply was "well, I guess you won't have your teeth cleaned at our office anymore."

People are interesting.

That they are. Not sure I would compare this to virulent racism though. (Unless the patient unleashed a stream of hateful anti-Christian vitriol on her way out the door? Still, I think people can have a reasonable expectation of freedom from religion at their doctor's office, whereas an expectation of "freedom from black people" is unreasonable and disgusting).

I didn't mean to draw any correlation there, but I can see how it came across that way.  My apologies.  The story just reminded my mom of the other incident, that's all.  I absolutely 100% agree that the racist patient was WAY more out of line than the no-Bible-verse patient. 

No worries--I realize my own post was a little bit jump-down-your-throat when I didn't mean it to be. 

phira

Yeah, the problem isn't the Bible verse on its own.

However, it's worth mentioning: I'd recommend against having Bible verses in your email signature, especially any work/school official email accounts. I have a student who's email signature for her university email is, "God bless you," followed by a verse. It's really inappropriate, given that we're not a religious university. Or at least that's how I feel. I haven't said anything to her because I really don't have any standing to.

holyguacamole79

@phira, I have nothing in my professional email signature except for basic business card information.  My personal email signature is my name and the following quote:

 "The one who has hope lives differently; the one who hopes has been granted the gift of a new life." - Pope Benedict XVI, Spe Salvi. 

Considering I use that email to communicate with family, friends, church, and my ob-gyn's office (and that practice is actually quite Catholic), I don't think too many people will be offended by my signature.  I'd like to think that the quote is generic enough that even non-Christians wouldn't be offended (perhaps it would be upsetting that it came from a Pope?).  I think I actually removed that signature when I was job-hunting, though, to maintain professionalism.

phira

sarahbear31 said:

@phira, I have nothing in my professional email signature except for basic business card information.  My personal email signature is my name and the following quote:

 "The one who has hope lives differently; the one who hopes has been granted the gift of a new life." - Pope Benedict XVI, Spe Salvi. 

Considering I use that email to communicate with family, friends, church, and my ob-gyn's office (and that practice is actually quite Catholic), I don't think too many people will be offended by my signature.  I'd like to think that the quote is generic enough that even non-Christians wouldn't be offended (perhaps it would be upsetting that it came from a Pope?).  I think I actually removed that signature when I was job-hunting, though, to maintain professionalism.

I mean, my point is that it's more okay with your personal email, so whatever qualms I'd have with it, I'd brush off. If that makes any sense!

HaileyDancingbear

I think the nurse was dealt with appropriately as far as using her personal email for a patient.  I also feel the patient overreacted.

I would honestly do a bit of eyebrow raising at the verse though- It's a personal pet peeve of mine when people have a religion, and just ASSUME everyone around them must have the same religion.  Just no.  There are a LOT of different religions out there.  We live in a very diverse world.  IMO a PROFESSIONAL understands this and therefore does not promote any one religion over another when interacting with a client.  (Obviously the exception here would be if your job is related to religion.)

When it comes to shopping, I absolutely will steer clear of a business that promotes a specific religion when the product has nothing to do with it- for example, what the fuck do chicken sandwiches have to do with homosexuality being sin?  What the fuck does craft supplies have to do with wether or not certain birth control pills are morally acceptable?