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WWYD? Bible verse from a doctor's office

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Re: WWYD? Bible verse from a doctor's office

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    I would have been FURIOUS about my protected patient information being transmitted via the nurse's personal email.

    While I personally think that having anything other than your name and contact info as your email signature (and especially something pushing your religious agenda) is distasteful and kind of stupid, if it's your personal email, I guess do as you you wish. (But, why? I really don't get it.)

    I do think that it's worth mentioning that if i received this sort of information from a nurse, I might assume that it was her business email, as that is the only way this sort of information should be transmitted. And in that case, I would absolutely complain. That is completely inappropriate.
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    @huskypuppy14, it's quite possible that the test results were saved on a different server than the email server.  It may have just impacted the email and not internet connectivity.  That's just my guess.  Or she could have used a USB cable to upload the file to her phone and send it from there.  Either way, the response should have been that she would have to wait.

    @ashley8918, from what I gathered from the story, the patient seemed to be insistent that the nurse find a way to somehow get her the information.  So, I assume she was aware that it was being done this way.  But, then again, it was just a story told over small talk while making sure I didn't pass out.  I guess for me, I have a signature (I referenced it in a prior post) in my personal email about hope.  It's one of my favorite pieces from a reflection on hope.  Several years ago, I sent an email to an acquaintance who had a terrible car accident.  The email was just one to say that I was praying for his recovery and offering support from afar.  The family had been maintaining a blog of his recovery and actually posted the sentence from my signature, saying that it was received via an email and the couple had made it their new mantra during that phase of the recovery.  I'd just like to think that it's something that would brighten someone else's day.  And I chose it because it's generic enough that I'd like to think that even someone with a different faith affiliation (if any at all) would appreciate the sentiment.
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    @huskypuppy14, it's quite possible that the test results were saved on a different server than the email server.  It may have just impacted the email and not internet connectivity.  That's just my guess.  Or she could have used a USB cable to upload the file to her phone and send it from there.  Either way, the response should have been that she would have to wait.

    @ashley8918, from what I gathered from the story, the patient seemed to be insistent that the nurse find a way to somehow get her the information.  So, I assume she was aware that it was being done this way.  But, then again, it was just a story told over small talk while making sure I didn't pass out.  I guess for me, I have a signature (I referenced it in a prior post) in my personal email about hope.  It's one of my favorite pieces from a reflection on hope.  Several years ago, I sent an email to an acquaintance who had a terrible car accident.  The email was just one to say that I was praying for his recovery and offering support from afar.  The family had been maintaining a blog of his recovery and actually posted the sentence from my signature, saying that it was received via an email and the couple had made it their new mantra during that phase of the recovery.  I'd just like to think that it's something that would brighten someone else's day.  And I chose it because it's generic enough that I'd like to think that even someone with a different faith affiliation (if any at all) would appreciate the sentiment.
    Yeah, it kind of sounded like the patient knew that it was being transmitted this way. Shame on that nurse, though. I am held liable under HIPAA in my job and the penalties for violation are very severe. There are huge fines, and even potential jail time! I really don't understand why anyone would risk that.

    I definitely wouldn't find your signature offensive (as I would a bible verse... annoying religious agenda pushing and all), I just personally think they are silly and serve no real purpose.
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    Mostly unrelated: I HATE when people put signatures on there texts. SOOOOOO ANNOYING.
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    @huskypuppy14, it's quite possible that the test results were saved on a different server than the email server.  It may have just impacted the email and not internet connectivity.  That's just my guess.  Or she could have used a USB cable to upload the file to her phone and send it from there.  Either way, the response should have been that she would have to wait.

    @ashley8918, from what I gathered from the story, the patient seemed to be insistent that the nurse find a way to somehow get her the information.  So, I assume she was aware that it was being done this way.  But, then again, it was just a story told over small talk while making sure I didn't pass out.  I guess for me, I have a signature (I referenced it in a prior post) in my personal email about hope.  It's one of my favorite pieces from a reflection on hope.  Several years ago, I sent an email to an acquaintance who had a terrible car accident.  The email was just one to say that I was praying for his recovery and offering support from afar.  The family had been maintaining a blog of his recovery and actually posted the sentence from my signature, saying that it was received via an email and the couple had made it their new mantra during that phase of the recovery.  I'd just like to think that it's something that would brighten someone else's day.  And I chose it because it's generic enough that I'd like to think that even someone with a different faith affiliation (if any at all) would appreciate the sentiment.
    Yeah, it kind of sounded like the patient knew that it was being transmitted this way. Shame on that nurse, though. I am held liable under HIPAA in my job and the penalties for violation are very severe. There are huge fines, and even potential jail time! I really don't understand why anyone would risk that.

    I definitely wouldn't find your signature offensive (as I would a bible verse... annoying religious agenda pushing and all), I just personally think they are silly and serve no real purpose.
    Oh I 100% agree on the "shame on that nurse" part regarding HIPAA.  I remember when HIPAA first came out and I (unknowingly) made a comment socially that a friend was one of my dad's dental patients.  I got a STERN lecture from my dad and made sure to never do that again.

    And I ABSOLUTELY don't like signatures on text messages, either.  Sheesh.  I also get annoyed by group text messages that don't need to be sent to the whole group, especially since you can't really "leave" the conversation. 
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    esstee33 said:
    I think the nurse was dealt with appropriately as far as using her personal email for a patient.  I also feel the patient overreacted.

    I would honestly do a bit of eyebrow raising at the verse though- It's a personal pet peeve of mine when people have a religion, and just ASSUME everyone around them must have the same religion.  Just no.  There are a LOT of different religions out there.  We live in a very diverse world.  IMO a PROFESSIONAL understands this and therefore does not promote any one religion over another when interacting with a client.  (Obviously the exception here would be if your job is related to religion.)

    When it comes to shopping, I absolutely will steer clear of a business that promotes a specific religion when the product has nothing to do with it- for example, what the fuck do chicken sandwiches have to do with homosexuality being sin?  What the fuck does craft supplies have to do with wether or not certain birth control pills are morally acceptable?  
    Right there with ya. One of my clients has bible verses at the bottom of his purchase orders, and I want to ask every single time why his faith is relevant to this order? Why? 

    I often wonder if I practiced Satanism and had some Satanic verses in my email signature how people would react to it. 
    Hmm... I'm going to that. I'll let you know how it goes.
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    edited October 2014
    cafarrie said:
    I think the patient is SUPER overreacting about the Bible verse.  I work for a hospital and if we'd get in SO much trouble for conducting any business via personal means (she could have faxed to an email address, or called with the results) - I understand she was trying to help, but that's a huge no-no.  The fact that there was a bible verse in her signature is fine - the fact that the patient didn't like that is fine (that's her prerogative) , but it depends on the rules of the company how much trouble she got into.  

    The hospital where I work is a owned by a Christian corporation (lots of health systems and independent hospitals are) so we get a company-wide emailed prayer every morning and lots of people have bible verses as signatures.  Not sure if that was the case with this nurse's former employer, but here it's totally commonplace.  Sending test results via personal email would be grounds for termination. 

    Edit:spelling is hard
    Ew. It's 100% NOT okay for an employer to push their religion on employees. I would be livid. I don't care what the beliefs of a company's owners are (i'm looking at you, Hobby Lobby), this kind of shit is unacceptable.
    I know you wouldn't appreciate it, @ashley8918.  And I respect that.  I wonder if there are legal issues with it if the organization is Christian?  I honestly don't know ...

    On a funny note, I know of a Catholic author who would put a Bible reference under his signature when people ask him to autograph one of his books.  For a while, he said that he used an obscure random scripture passage that had no real meaning just to see if anyone would actually look it up and go "huh?"
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    cafarrie said:
    I think the patient is SUPER overreacting about the Bible verse.  I work for a hospital and if we'd get in SO much trouble for conducting any business via personal means (she could have faxed to an email address, or called with the results) - I understand she was trying to help, but that's a huge no-no.  The fact that there was a bible verse in her signature is fine - the fact that the patient didn't like that is fine (that's her prerogative) , but it depends on the rules of the company how much trouble she got into.  

    The hospital where I work is a owned by a Christian corporation (lots of health systems and independent hospitals are) so we get a company-wide emailed prayer every morning and lots of people have bible verses as signatures.  Not sure if that was the case with this nurse's former employer, but here it's totally commonplace.  Sending test results via personal email would be grounds for termination. 

    Edit:spelling is hard
    Ew. It's 100% NOT okay for an employer to push their religion on employees. I would be livid. I don't care what the beliefs of a company's owners are (i'm looking at you, Hobby Lobby), this kind of shit is unacceptable.


    STUCK IN THE BOX:
    Honestly, I agree with you.  It's a Catholic company started by nuns a million years ago.  I'm Catholic, but it still weirds me out to get prayers every morning.  However, I chose to work here and would never get pissed about it, regardless of my personal feelings. 

    I only mentioned it above because if the clinic in question was part of a system like this, the patient would have had no grounds for complaining about the bible verse (even if it had come from the nurse's work email).  I think the major issue is that she used personal email, period, to send protected health information.  
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    @cafarrie, I think the nurse worked in a private practice when the incident happened.  She did make a comment that the physician was surprised by the incident because a lot of her patients knew the physician & his family from church. 

    Even still, I expect a certain level of professionalism when I have formal communications like this.  For example, I know that my ob-gyn has a practice that ascribes to Catholic teachings on theology.  She has a blessing from the Pope in her office - they make no secret about their faith.  If I were to receive an email from the office regarding bloodwork or something else with a scripture passage in the signature, even I would raise my eyebrows a bit. 
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    cafarrie said:
    cafarrie said:
    I think the patient is SUPER overreacting about the Bible verse.  I work for a hospital and if we'd get in SO much trouble for conducting any business via personal means (she could have faxed to an email address, or called with the results) - I understand she was trying to help, but that's a huge no-no.  The fact that there was a bible verse in her signature is fine - the fact that the patient didn't like that is fine (that's her prerogative) , but it depends on the rules of the company how much trouble she got into.  

    The hospital where I work is a owned by a Christian corporation (lots of health systems and independent hospitals are) so we get a company-wide emailed prayer every morning and lots of people have bible verses as signatures.  Not sure if that was the case with this nurse's former employer, but here it's totally commonplace.  Sending test results via personal email would be grounds for termination. 

    Edit:spelling is hard
    Ew. It's 100% NOT okay for an employer to push their religion on employees. I would be livid. I don't care what the beliefs of a company's owners are (i'm looking at you, Hobby Lobby), this kind of shit is unacceptable.


    STUCK IN THE BOX:
    Honestly, I agree with you.  It's a Catholic company started by nuns a million years ago.  I'm Catholic, but it still weirds me out to get prayers every morning.  However, I chose to work here and would never get pissed about it, regardless of my personal feelings. 

    I only mentioned it above because if the clinic in question was part of a system like this, the patient would have had no grounds for complaining about the bible verse (even if it had come from the nurse's work email).  I think the major issue is that she used personal email, period, to send protected health information.  
    I don't know that this is necessarily true. Regardless of the affiliation of the hospital, that is not appropriate in a professional setting. As a patient, I have a right not to have religious mumbo jumbo shoved down my throat with my medical information.

    Now, the hospital's administration may not do anything about it (as I suspect they wouldn't), but a patient absolutely has grounds to complain (and should, if they feel so inclined). I would. Loudly.

    My company was recently (like, in the past 5 years) purchased by an Islam-affiliated holdings company, but they wouldn't dream of pulling this shit. Because a business is not the place.
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    cafarrie said:
    cafarrie said:
    I think the patient is SUPER overreacting about the Bible verse.  I work for a hospital and if we'd get in SO much trouble for conducting any business via personal means (she could have faxed to an email address, or called with the results) - I understand she was trying to help, but that's a huge no-no.  The fact that there was a bible verse in her signature is fine - the fact that the patient didn't like that is fine (that's her prerogative) , but it depends on the rules of the company how much trouble she got into.  

    The hospital where I work is a owned by a Christian corporation (lots of health systems and independent hospitals are) so we get a company-wide emailed prayer every morning and lots of people have bible verses as signatures.  Not sure if that was the case with this nurse's former employer, but here it's totally commonplace.  Sending test results via personal email would be grounds for termination. 

    Edit:spelling is hard
    Ew. It's 100% NOT okay for an employer to push their religion on employees. I would be livid. I don't care what the beliefs of a company's owners are (i'm looking at you, Hobby Lobby), this kind of shit is unacceptable.


    STUCK IN THE BOX:
    Honestly, I agree with you.  It's a Catholic company started by nuns a million years ago.  I'm Catholic, but it still weirds me out to get prayers every morning.  However, I chose to work here and would never get pissed about it, regardless of my personal feelings. 

    I only mentioned it above because if the clinic in question was part of a system like this, the patient would have had no grounds for complaining about the bible verse (even if it had come from the nurse's work email).  I think the major issue is that she used personal email, period, to send protected health information.  
    I don't know that this is necessarily true. Regardless of the affiliation of the hospital, that is not appropriate in a professional setting. As a patient, I have a right not to have religious mumbo jumbo shoved down my throat with my medical information.

    Now, the hospital's administration may not do anything about it (as I suspect they wouldn't), but a patient absolutely has grounds to complain (and should, if they feel so inclined). I would. Loudly.

    My company was recently (like, in the past 5 years) purchased by an Islam-affiliated holdings company, but they wouldn't dream of pulling this shit. Because a business is not the place.
    I think the big difference here is that @cafarrie is an employee, not a patient.  I can appreciate being uncomfortable with the daily prayer email, but I think an employee would somewhat know that about the place when she accepted the job (I'm still not sure about the legality of it, though).
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    cafarrie said:
    cafarrie said:
    I think the patient is SUPER overreacting about the Bible verse.  I work for a hospital and if we'd get in SO much trouble for conducting any business via personal means (she could have faxed to an email address, or called with the results) - I understand she was trying to help, but that's a huge no-no.  The fact that there was a bible verse in her signature is fine - the fact that the patient didn't like that is fine (that's her prerogative) , but it depends on the rules of the company how much trouble she got into.  

    The hospital where I work is a owned by a Christian corporation (lots of health systems and independent hospitals are) so we get a company-wide emailed prayer every morning and lots of people have bible verses as signatures.  Not sure if that was the case with this nurse's former employer, but here it's totally commonplace.  Sending test results via personal email would be grounds for termination. 

    Edit:spelling is hard
    Ew. It's 100% NOT okay for an employer to push their religion on employees. I would be livid. I don't care what the beliefs of a company's owners are (i'm looking at you, Hobby Lobby), this kind of shit is unacceptable.


    STUCK IN THE BOX:
    Honestly, I agree with you.  It's a Catholic company started by nuns a million years ago.  I'm Catholic, but it still weirds me out to get prayers every morning.  However, I chose to work here and would never get pissed about it, regardless of my personal feelings. 

    I only mentioned it above because if the clinic in question was part of a system like this, the patient would have had no grounds for complaining about the bible verse (even if it had come from the nurse's work email).  I think the major issue is that she used personal email, period, to send protected health information.  
    I don't know that this is necessarily true. Regardless of the affiliation of the hospital, that is not appropriate in a professional setting. As a patient, I have a right not to have religious mumbo jumbo shoved down my throat with my medical information.

    Now, the hospital's administration may not do anything about it (as I suspect they wouldn't), but a patient absolutely has grounds to complain (and should, if they feel so inclined). I would. Loudly.

    My company was recently (like, in the past 5 years) purchased by an Islam-affiliated holdings company, but they wouldn't dream of pulling this shit. Because a business is not the place.
    I think the big difference here is that @cafarrie is an employee, not a patient.  I can appreciate being uncomfortable with the daily prayer email, but I think an employee would somewhat know that about the place when she accepted the job (I'm still not sure about the legality of it, though).
    Sure. I would absolutely never choose to work in a place like that.

    But I am responding to her comment that "the patient would have no grounds for complaining". I wholeheartedly disagree. I use a hospital that is not religiously affiliated (at last not publicly), but when i lived elsewhere, our town hospital was Lutheran (St. Alexius). I would have bitched my heart out if I received a professional email from them with a religious agenda.
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    ashley8918 said:
    But I am responding to her comment that "the patient would have no grounds for complaining". I wholeheartedly disagree. I use a hospital that is not religiously affiliated (at last not publicly), but when i lived elsewhere, our town hospital was Lutheran (St. Alexius). I would have bitched my heart out if I received a professional email from them with a religious agenda.
    I'm curious from a legal standpoint what the options would be if you complained.  I guess one of these would happen:
    1. Hospital apologizes and situation is remedied
    2. Hospital says "hey, that's who we are" (in much better PR-terms) and patient finds another hospital
    3. Hospital says "hey, that's who we are" and patient files suit
    Would option 3 even be possible?  Would the patient have any grounds for possibly winning?  I'm genuinely curious.

    And (not to get argumentative), what constitutes a "religious agenda"?  Would an email signature with a Scripture reference be one?  If a hospital staff member wears a cross necklace, is that a religious agenda? 
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    Also, to answer the original question, I would leave the practice as well. I do not think that the patient overreacted.

    Regardless of the fact that she pushed the nurse to release patient information in an unprofessional manner, the nurse should never have done it. I also would have considered leaving over the bible verse alone. 
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    ashley8918ashley8918 member
    First Comment First Anniversary First Answer 5 Love Its
    edited October 2014
    ashley8918 said:
    But I am responding to her comment that "the patient would have no grounds for complaining". I wholeheartedly disagree. I use a hospital that is not religiously affiliated (at last not publicly), but when i lived elsewhere, our town hospital was Lutheran (St. Alexius). I would have bitched my heart out if I received a professional email from them with a religious agenda.
    I'm curious from a legal standpoint what the options would be if you complained.  I guess one of these would happen:
    1. Hospital apologizes and situation is remedied
    2. Hospital says "hey, that's who we are" (in much better PR-terms) and patient finds another hospital
    3. Hospital says "hey, that's who we are" and patient files suit
    Would option 3 even be possible?  Would the patient have any grounds for possibly winning?  I'm genuinely curious.

    And (not to get argumentative), what constitutes a "religious agenda"?  Would an email signature with a Scripture reference be one?  If a hospital staff member wears a cross necklace, is that a religious agenda? 
    I honestly have no clue what legal avenues, if any, would be pursued. My guess is that there is probably nothing illegal about it. It's just unprofessional, in my opinion. (ETA: And i think that I absolutely have the right to complain about unprofessionalism, regardless of the legality of it, if that makes sense. They might not do anything about it, but that doesn't mean that I have no grounds for complaining).

    Adding reference to your religion (HEY GUYS! LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT HOW CHRISTIAN I AM) to every professional email is pretty pushy and in your face, so i consider that to be pushing one's own religious agenda and it's awfully annoying. Especially if said professional is some sort of authority figure.

    I don't think that being proud of your religion and wearing religious attire (cross necklace, scrubs/sweaters with crosses on them etc) is the same thing as being pushy like in the example above. 

    Ex. My boss has a small painting with some sort of bible reference on it on her desk next to her picture of the vacation she recently took with her husband. Not being religious, I kind of roll my eyes every time I see it, but I don't think there is anything wrong with decorating her desk how she sees fit. She does not feel the need to broadcast her religion in her every email. It's unnecessary and inappropriate.
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    The receptionist at my previous doctor survived breast cancer and placed a sign on the waiting room thanking everybody for their prayers. There were numerous references to God in the message, and the doctor had a lot of patients from different religious backgrounds. I didn't think it was particularly appropriate for a doctor's office and was kind of surprised that the doctor allowed her to put it up. While I definitely rolled my eyes at it, I never would have gone so far as to complain to the doctor about it. 

    The line for me would be if the receptionist or doctor routinely talked about religion in conversation. Even then, I'd make my displeasure known before considering leaving the practice (it's worth noting that it's really hard to get a family doctor around here, so that's definitely a factor).
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    Yeah... my personal email is regularly used for work. My signature is my name and "title". I never had a signature before that.

    The HIPAA violation is a big deal. I have to be super careful with attorney-client privilege, and it's nowhere near as strict as HIPAA since 90% of the stuff I do is technically public record.

    I don't see a religious signature on a personal email account as a religious agenda though. It's just your belief. If I don't like it, I'm most likely going to ignore it, unless it's, like, "HEIL HITLER" or some ISIS extremist killing-people crap. At which point I would definitely have something to say about.
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    I am not religious and get irritated with excessive religious references. I would definitely find it peculiar that she had a bible verse in her signature, but since it was her personal email I wouldn't dwell on it.

    If it were her professional email I would definitely find it odd and would probably consider finding a new doctor.


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    That patient sounds like an asshole.  Good riddance.

     

    Back when I was a bank teller, there was a person who BEGGED me to do a cash advance on her credit card through the drive-through.  A big no-no.  I decided to do it for her, and told her it was a one-time-only deal.  Yep, she came back through a couple weeks later and threw a fit because we "did it for her before".  I was young, and lucky that I just got told to not do that again. 

     

    She didn't get her cash advance.  Some people are just royal assholes.

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    Not even going to touch the bible verse in the signature but the HIPAA violation is HUGE. I work for an health insurance broker and if I pulled something like that, I'd at least get written up. It's one thing if she did it on accident, but she didn't. She willfully sent personal medical information over personal email, that I'm sure wasn't secure, and risked someone stealing that information. Unless it was life or death (and it doesn't sound like it was), there's no reason that nurse couldn't have stood up for herself and the practice and refused to send any information unless it was through secure portal using my work email address. 
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    HIPPA violations aside,  I just roll my eyes and keep on going.   I do not get signatures in private emails, but whatever.   

    I am not at all surprised or dare I say almost expect places like Catholic Hospitals or say Notre Dame to have a bible verse in a siggy.  Notre Dame is run by priest, geez.  All the Catholic Hospitals I've been in had crosses and nuns running around.   I'm not sure how a bible verse in a signature would be offensive, but crosses everywhere including letterhead is not.  If you use a Catholic hospital I think it's expected.  

    On another note, just because a verse comes from the bible or christian teachings does not automatically mean to me that it can not be inspirational to others.    Honor your father and mother is an example of something that comes from the bible.  I guess we are to not use that line because there is an agenda?

     That said I give huge eye rolls to In-n-out Burger and Forever 21 with all their John 3.16 plastered on their bags.  There are definitely some other bible verses that give me some eye rolls too.






    What differentiates an average host and a great host is anticipating unexpressed needs and wants of their guests.  Just because the want/need is not expressed, doesn't mean it wouldn't be appreciated. 
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    I don't know, in my opinion having a bible verse in a signature is not something I prefer.  However, i think there's a huge difference between having something in an email signature and actively "forcing your beliefs on someone" or "shoving your beliefs down my throat".  Whether I agree or not, it's something that can be easily ignored as a patient or consumer and honestly affects your life in no real way.  It would be a totally different story if i went to the doctor and before every visit they gave me a religion lecture, or someone was actively pushing religion on me.  

    For me, the bottom line is that the email signature is whatever, the patient IMHO was being ridiculous by complaining about it.  The real issue that should have gotten the nurse fired is the fact that a personal email was used to send protected medical information. 
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