Whaaaaaat is going on here?

[Deleted User]

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WinstonsGirl

Pink answered 1.  

As for 2, Nope, I hate people blowing smoke up my ass.  It might hurt initially, but I'd rather have people be up front and straight with me.  I'm going through it right now with my cheer coaches, and one finally gave me straight up answer as to why I'm not being placed on the team I want.  I have more respect for her at the moment than I do anyone else who gave me bullshit answers all last year. 

Can I still say bullshit??  

julieanne912

themosthappy91 said:

Okay so follow-up questions (and I appreciate y'alls responses so far):

1. First the practical question- based on something Lynda said I think I misunderstood the initial incident that caused all this kerfuffle. Have the TOS changed recently or not? What exactly set Ashley off and caused her to get banned?

2. The bigger question: putting aside issues of how much power of censorship administrators should or should not have, do YOU think this community would benefit from being more polite? And I don't mean benefit in the financial sense (as in, XO's ability to profit off the forums), but benefit in terms of your increased enjoyment of being here. Basically, would you be happier if the community where somewhat less snarky?

1.  I'm not really sure, but as already mentioned, I think what "set it off" was a complaint or something about Ashley's signature gif, which if I recall, was a girl throwing the bird.  I personally wasn't offended by it as I have been here long enough to know her style and what she's like, but I could see how people would be unhappy with it as it was pretty "in your face".  I can also recently recall other threads recently where she was getting a bit carried away with herself.  So I don't think it was just about the GIF... it was due to her history as well.

2.  I think more politeness might be good in some cases.  There's been times when a new person will post a question, and some of the responses have the tone of "you're a fucking idiot, why are you even asking that,".  Those types of responses are a turn off, at least to me.  My guess is is that in those cases, regulars get used to seeing the same types of questions asked over and over, and get tired of seeing them. But, they don't realize that a new poster isn't going to read through pages of discussions to see if their question was already asked and answered.  But, getting snarky responses to an innocent question can really make someone new put their guard up, and return with attacks, and then the "I was attacked" argument comes up.  I personally wouldn't mind seeing some of the snarkiness going away a bit, as it does decrease from the actual usefulness of many threads since they quickly escalate into a shitshow.

I had the exact thing happen to me when I was new.  I was in the wrong for responding the way I did, but it came from being offended by some of the responses I received to a comment I made to a question someone else asked (not in chit chat, but another board.)  The whole thread devolved into arguing, which was too bad as it was a good question to begin with.  As I've been here longer I understand more the style of the board, but a lot of people would probably just leave and not come back.  

ohannabelle

Okay so follow-up questions (and I appreciate y'alls responses so far):

1. First the practical question- based on something Lynda said I think I misunderstood the initial incident that caused all this kerfuffle. Have the TOS changed recently or not? What exactly set Ashley off and caused her to get banned?

2. The bigger question: putting aside issues of how much power of censorship administrators should or should not have, do YOU think this community would benefit from being more polite? And I don't mean benefit in the financial sense (as in, XO's ability to profit off the forums), but benefit in terms of your increased enjoyment of being here. Basically, would you be happier if the community where somewhat less snarky?

2: On which given day? There are polite days, and snarky days. Do I ever feel like someone goes too far? Sure. There's an undefinable line that can be crossed between sarcasm and meanness, between snark and shittiness, and where that line is will be different for each person.

Somebody blew a gasket the other day because a poster suggested eloping. It wasn't rude at all, to my perception, or unkindly suggested, but to some dainty little snowflake, it was RUDE.

Polite is a very gray area, based on individual perception, and it would be impossible to define a standard of "polite" social interaction that pleased everyone. 

 

If anyone feels that we need a kinder gentler Knot, nothing wrong with that. Be that kind and gentle person, and brava. Be you, if you're kind. I like nice people. 

But I also really like smartasses. And I like humor. And I enjoy the honest and sharp responses that reflect the genuine reactions of the people here. My humor might not be yours. Someone might say I'm rude, because there's no accounting for perception, and there are people who take themselves verrrrrry seriously, and my natural inclination is to poke a pin in that inflated kind of ego. 

So if this place became all sunshine and rainbows, I'd miss the comedy. Is humor rude? Is blunt rude? Is blatant honesty rude? 

 

Because if all of those things went away, I would definitely enjoy my reading time less. It would suck. I'd be sad.  The community would gradually yawn itself to death. 

AlexisA01

themosthappy91 said:

julieanne912 said:

themosthappy91 said:

Okay so follow-up questions (and I appreciate y'alls responses so far):

1. First the practical question- based on something Lynda said I think I misunderstood the initial incident that caused all this kerfuffle. Have the TOS changed recently or not? What exactly set Ashley off and caused her to get banned?

2. The bigger question: putting aside issues of how much power of censorship administrators should or should not have, do YOU think this community would benefit from being more polite? And I don't mean benefit in the financial sense (as in, XO's ability to profit off the forums), but benefit in terms of your increased enjoyment of being here. Basically, would you be happier if the community where somewhat less snarky?

1.  I'm not really sure, but as already mentioned, I think what "set it off" was a complaint or something about Ashley's signature gif, which if I recall, was a girl throwing the bird.  I personally wasn't offended by it as I have been here long enough to know her style and what she's like, but I could see how people would be unhappy with it as it was pretty "in your face".  I can also recently recall other threads recently where she was getting a bit carried away with herself.  So I don't think it was just about the GIF... it was due to her history as well.

2.  I think more politeness might be good in some cases.  There's been times when a new person will post a question, and some of the responses have the tone of "you're a fucking idiot, why are you even asking that,".  Those types of responses are a turn off, at least to me.  My guess is is that in those cases, regulars get used to seeing the same types of questions asked over and over, and get tired of seeing them. But, they don't realize that a new poster isn't going to read through pages of discussions to see if their question was already asked and answered.  But, getting snarky responses to an innocent question can really make someone new put their guard up, and return with attacks, and then the "I was attacked" argument comes up.  I personally wouldn't mind seeing some of the snarkiness going away a bit, as it does decrease from the actual usefulness of many threads since they quickly escalate into a shitshow.

I had the exact thing happen to me when I was new.  I was in the wrong for responding the way I did, but it came from being offended by some of the responses I received to a comment I made to a question someone else asked (not in chit chat, but another board.)  The whole thread devolved into arguing, which was too bad as it was a good question to begin with.  As I've been here longer I understand more the style of the board, but a lot of people would probably just leave and not come back.  

Everything above. Sometimes it gets too much and then overboard and it's like jumping down someone's throat. 

huskypuppy14

Pink's response to number 1. Also, the administrators won't answer people's questions. What's the problem with being transparent. Apparently, they are answering them in PMs, but it's against TOS to share PMs so ...

Obviously, it seems Ashley wanted to be banned. So she got her wish. But she was proving a point. Did I agree with everything Ashley said, no. Sure she was more brazen than other posters, but people need to stick up for themselves and others if you disagree. Clearly, someone didn't like her enough to report her, which I think is childish. Report spammers trolls and vendors, which Ashley was not.

2. I like snarky, I am snarky. I feel that I'm not rude snarky though. I agree there is a point, and some people may go a little too far, but then it blows over. This board was pretty nice in general. It used to be a lot more snarky. People are too sensitive. If the snark goes away, I'm out.

TacoBelle2

I think what differentiates this community from other sites is the snark. I think if the community became more polite it would lose what makes it famous in the wedding website world. Obviously the regulars are regulars because they like frank and snarky conversations, and the new people who stick around do so because they like the particular flavor of this site. If anything, I think increased politeness here would be a detriment to the established community because one of the distinguishing features of the TK community is its snark.

themosthappy91

huskypuppy14 said:

Pink's response to number 1. Also, the administrators won't answer people's questions. What's the problem with being transparent. Apparently, they are answering them in PMs, but it's against TOS to share PMs so ...

Obviously, it seems Ashley wanted to be banned. So she got her wish. But she was proving a point. Did I agree with everything Ashley said, no. Sure she was more brazen than other posters, but people need to stick up for themselves and others if you disagree. Clearly, someone didn't like her enough to report her, which I think is childish. Report spammers trolls and vendors, which Ashley was not.

2. I like snarky, I am snarky. I feel that I'm not rude snarky though. I agree there is a point, and some people may go a little too far, but then it blows over. This board was pretty nice in general. It used to be a lot more snarky. People are too sensitive. If the snark goes away, I'm out.

I guess the bolded is part of what I don't get about that whole incident: Ashley kept saying she was going to get banned because the mods "have a vendetta against her," but she clearly went way out of her way to make sure that happened. 

Sure, if she had been banned as a result of her "normal" posting behaviors (behaviors that were in line with how she and others typically use the forum) it would have made a statement about how the TOS needs to be clarified and the administration needs more transparency about how they choose to enforce the TOS... but what exactly is it proving to just spam threads with GIFs of people giving other people the middle finger? Her banning appeared to be not so much the result of a mod/mods having it out for her and more the result of just kind of being purposefully obnoxious.

I guess that's part of why I started this thread in the first place- to see if there was something more behind Ashley's banning than what I saw on the thread she started. I initially suspected there was more to it, but I guess not. 

kkitkat79

ohannabelle said:

Okay so follow-up questions (and I appreciate y'alls responses so far):

1. First the practical question- based on something Lynda said I think I misunderstood the initial incident that caused all this kerfuffle. Have the TOS changed recently or not? What exactly set Ashley off and caused her to get banned?

2. The bigger question: putting aside issues of how much power of censorship administrators should or should not have, do YOU think this community would benefit from being more polite? And I don't mean benefit in the financial sense (as in, XO's ability to profit off the forums), but benefit in terms of your increased enjoyment of being here. Basically, would you be happier if the community where somewhat less snarky?

2: On which given day? There are polite days, and snarky days. Do I ever feel like someone goes too far? Sure. There's an undefinable line that can be crossed between sarcasm and meanness, between snark and shittiness, and where that line is will be different for each person.

Somebody blew a gasket the other day because a poster suggested eloping. It wasn't rude at all, to my perception, or unkindly suggested, but to some dainty little snowflake, it was RUDE.

Polite is a very gray area, based on individual perception, and it would be impossible to define a standard of "polite" social interaction that pleased everyone. 

 

If anyone feels that we need a kinder gentler Knot, nothing wrong with that. Be that kind and gentle person, and brava. Be you, if you're kind. I like nice people. 

But I also really like smartasses. And I like humor. And I enjoy the honest and sharp responses that reflect the genuine reactions of the people here. My humor might not be yours. Someone might say I'm rude, because there's no accounting for perception, and there are people who take themselves verrrrrry seriously, and my natural inclination is to poke a pin in that inflated kind of ego. 

So if this place became all sunshine and rainbows, I'd miss the comedy. Is humor rude? Is blunt rude? Is blatant honesty rude? 

 

Because if all of those things went away, I would definitely enjoy my reading time less. It would suck. I'd be sad.  The community would gradually yawn itself to death. 

If "polite" is a grey area then so is etiquette and I don't think many would agree with that. Isn't it generally accepted that etiquette is exactly what you said is impossible to define - a standard of polite social interaction? There is more to etiquette than just wedding etiquette.

JennyColada

I would be a lot more active on TK if I could stay logged in.

But no, for real, I really hate starting up new accounts on new message boards. It's tedious, it's time-consuming, and I like not having to continually go through the getting-to-know-you phase.

But alas.

ohannabelle

The problem with a "more politeness" poli

kkitkat79 said:

ohannabelle said:

Okay so follow-up questions (and I appreciate y'alls responses so far):

1. First the practical question- based on something Lynda said I think I misunderstood the initial incident that caused all this kerfuffle. Have the TOS changed recently or not? What exactly set Ashley off and caused her to get banned?

2. The bigger question: putting aside issues of how much power of censorship administrators should or should not have, do YOU think this community would benefit from being more polite? And I don't mean benefit in the financial sense (as in, XO's ability to profit off the forums), but benefit in terms of your increased enjoyment of being here. Basically, would you be happier if the community where somewhat less snarky?

2: On which given day? There are polite days, and snarky days. Do I ever feel like someone goes too far? Sure. There's an undefinable line that can be crossed between sarcasm and meanness, between snark and shittiness, and where that line is will be different for each person.

Somebody blew a gasket the other day because a poster suggested eloping. It wasn't rude at all, to my perception, or unkindly suggested, but to some dainty little snowflake, it was RUDE.

Polite is a very gray area, based on individual perception, and it would be impossible to define a standard of "polite" social interaction that pleased everyone. 

 

If anyone feels that we need a kinder gentler Knot, nothing wrong with that. Be that kind and gentle person, and brava. Be you, if you're kind. I like nice people. 

But I also really like smartasses. And I like humor. And I enjoy the honest and sharp responses that reflect the genuine reactions of the people here. My humor might not be yours. Someone might say I'm rude, because there's no accounting for perception, and there are people who take themselves verrrrrry seriously, and my natural inclination is to poke a pin in that inflated kind of ego. 

So if this place became all sunshine and rainbows, I'd miss the comedy. Is humor rude? Is blunt rude? Is blatant honesty rude? 

 

Because if all of those things went away, I would definitely enjoy my reading time less. It would suck. I'd be sad.  The community would gradually yawn itself to death. 

If "polite" is a grey area then so is etiquette and I don't think many would agree with that. Isn't it generally accepted that etiquette is exactly what you said is impossible to define - a standard of polite social interaction? There is more to etiquette than just wedding etiquette.

Nope. Etiquette is a clear set of standard rules, and casual and open conversation is pretty much impossible to impose structured rules on. Polite interaction is much more of a personal judgement call. What's acceptable conversation between close friends, or casual friends, or family, or at church, or at a bar, or on a message board, are all different things. There is no etiquette rule that could account for the myriad of personalities, reactions, and potential situations. 

If somebody is actually suggesting that everyone use formal social conversational etiquette on the boards, then you'd be correct. And yes, there are rules. But let's not be silly. That would be awful. It would dictate that we not ever speak if anything personal, or even vaguely controversial. No sex, no politics, no personal remarks, only the lightest jokes, never discuss your personal dislikes, no topics that could possibly offend anyone..... I guess we could discuss the weather, or puppies. And I doubt for a second that was being suggested. 

TrixieJess

I'm fairly new and one of the things that attracted me to the boards was the no nonsense approach and the way that everyone seemed to have a sense of humour. True, some of the responses on here can be harsh but I find that it depends who it is and what topic it is.

One of the reasons I like posting here rather than WW is that WW seems disjointed in what they allow. Often I'll see posts where they accuse TK of being cliquey but I find they can be way worse with their regs.

I also find the information on the community here more supportive and helpful for wedding planning.

AddieCake

For me, it all comes down to, once again, the definition of "being more polite." As Annabelle pointed out, special snowflakes come along and cry "Rude!" all the time and are using the word incorrectly. I know I keep bringing this up, but I feel it's an excellent example. I got reported and warned recently for saying someone was insane for doing a mud run the day of the wedding. Seriously? That was offensive/rude/hurtful in some way to someone? 

So no, I don't think the community would benefit from being more polite. I think people in general would benefit from not being so delicate and getting their damned feelers hurt so easily and learning to handle comments better. Do they expect to get treated with kid gloves in the real world? They're....dare I say it....insane if they think they will.

larrygaga

I like the blunt advice that comes from these boards. I liked watching SS getting told that they are selfish assholes. I liked to be told when I was a selfish asshole. It made me think about how my actions affect others. Don't really want stick around to watch SS get lovingly fingered in the asshole. The difference between the wedding wire/wedding bee and what used to be TK was that it attracted people with good heads on their shoulders. The drama was fun, but you can say goodbye to that. Now we just have to kiss their asses and tell them they have great ideas. No more drama!

 I don't want to be part of a board where I get warned for putting a rather hilarious and truthful louis ck skit. How boring. The parody thread Fran made was an A+ example of what happened here. This thread? Not so much. 

We had a good run. You know where to find me now. 

wandajune6

I'm not speaking as a mod here...

I don't think anyone wants a TK filled with rainbows and sunshine. But I do see value in a place where people aren't scared off by bullies. I can't speak for anyone else but there have been countless times on CC where I have avoided posting because I knew that anything I posted would get me attacked.

I don't mind being questioned or made to think but it got to the point where it felt like people were trying to bully.

Quite frankly, I'd rather be in a place where people want to be here and create a community rather than a group of people who just bitch endlessly about what's wrong with everything. I loved TK when I first joined and the CC community used to be amazing-- it made me sad how it turned Mean Girls.

Also, TH moves too fast. I tried it once a long time ago. I have no idea how anyone can keep up there while holding a job or having a life.

jacques27

I think boards would benefit more from everyone reading them putting a stop to injecting what they THINK the tone was of what is written.  Numerous things that have been labeled as "rude" or "mean" just suffer from lack of fluffy language.  If you read them in what was probably the completely neutral tone they were written in, you'd see that no one had the intent to be rude or mean in the  majority of the cases. 

If you have a bad idea, I'm going to say "That's a bad idea and a really good way to alienate your family if you go through with it."  I am not going to say "There, there, pumpkin.  It's clear that you're really trying very hard, and while this isn't a bad idea, I'm afraid that some people might take offense (but not at you, because you're lovely)."  Note:  I did not say "You're a f***ing moron, and your idea f***ing sucks and your family is going to hate you."  Yet, some chose to read my relatively benign words that way.

It's when people start reading the tone of the latter into what was actually said and then start responding with belligerence and crying foul that it tends to escalate. 

Seriously, assume everything is written in a neutral tone.  Your life will be much better for it.

JoanE2012

themosthappy91 said:

Okay so follow-up questions (and I appreciate y'alls responses so far):

1. First the practical question- based on something Lynda said I think I misunderstood the initial incident that caused all this kerfuffle. Have the TOS changed recently or not? What exactly set Ashley off and caused her to get banned?

2. The bigger question: putting aside issues of how much power of censorship administrators should or should not have, do YOU think this community would benefit from being more polite? And I don't mean benefit in the financial sense (as in, XO's ability to profit off the forums), but benefit in terms of your increased enjoyment of being here. Basically, would you be happier if the community where somewhat less snarky?

If I wanted TK to be more polite and less snarky, I'd go to WeddingBee.  That is the site if you are looking to be coddled, hand held and told every idea is brilliant!

[Deleted User]

.

ohannabelle

I'm not speaking as a mod here...

I don't think anyone wants a TK filled with rainbows and sunshine. But I do see value in a place where people aren't scared off by bullies. I can't speak for anyone else but there have been countless times on CC where I have avoided posting because I knew that anything I posted would get me attacked.

I don't mind being questioned or made to think but it got to the point where it felt like people were trying to bully.

Quite frankly, I'd rather be in a place where people want to be here and create a community rather than a group of people who just bitch endlessly about what's wrong with everything. I loved TK when I first joined and the CC community used to be amazing-- it made me sad how it turned Mean Girls.

Also, TH moves too fast. I tried it once a long time ago. I have no idea how anyone can keep up there while holding a job or having a life.

This surprises me. I just can't imagine people bullying and attacking you. Why on earth do you think that? 

(I think a lot of this is internal. What you fear vs. actuality.)

I'm also surprised by the use of the words bullied, attacked, mean girls, endless bitching...I honestly don't think the Knot has changed from the time you joined to the present time. 

And Jaques and Addie provided perfectly clear examples of what I meant when saying that polite conversation is subjective. 

Is it rude to say you're insane to do a mud run the morning of your wedding? Is that inappropriate, bullying, mean, obscene? In what way is this a violation of TOS? I'm genuinely asking. 

That warning is really a good example of what the ruckus is actually about. It's a new and very selective policing of what's deemed acceptable. That kind of thing is what's making people apprehensive, and why people are jumping ship, and worried that the ban hammer is going to start falling at random. (Nobody's surprised that Ashley was banned for posting multiple flipping off gifs and saying, hey, Knot, fucking ban me.) 

AddieCake

wandajune6 said:

Also, TH moves too fast. I tried it once a long time ago. I have no idea how anyone can keep up there while holding a job or having a life.

It moves no faster than TK does. This sounds like newbs who come along HERE and tell people they have no life if they have X amount of posts or years on the board. So people posting here have no life or no job, either, then, I guess? 

I can't Knot from work, mostly because my job requires me to be teaching classes all day, but even on my down time I can't access TK or TH anymore there. So I can't keep up here any more than I can there. I don't really see the difference. 

lyndausvi

themosthappy91 said:

pinkrevenge said:

AddieCake said:

For me, it all comes down to, once again, the definition of "being more polite." As Annabelle pointed out, special snowflakes come along and cry "Rude!" all the time and are using the word incorrectly. I know I keep bringing this up, but I feel it's an excellent example. I got reported and warned recently for saying someone was insane for doing a mud run the day of the wedding. Seriously? That was offensive/rude/hurtful in some way to someone? 

So no, I don't think the community would benefit from being more polite. I think people in general would benefit from not being so delicate and getting their damned feelers hurt so easily and learning to handle comments better. Do they expect to get treated with kid gloves in the real world? They're....dare I say it....insane if they think they will.

Seriously?

I wish you could see my face right now.

So for those of you who are very "Follow the rules or just leave" - is that kind of warning acceptable to you?

As a mod, I was warned for saying to the same OP in the same thread  "YOU ARE FUCKING INSANE"

Did I rolls my eyes?  Yes.  Was it a personal attack?  Yes.    As we all know, words mean something.  I could have used different words to get my point across.

AddieCake

lyndausvi said:

themosthappy91 said:

pinkrevenge said:

AddieCake said:

For me, it all comes down to, once again, the definition of "being more polite." As Annabelle pointed out, special snowflakes come along and cry "Rude!" all the time and are using the word incorrectly. I know I keep bringing this up, but I feel it's an excellent example. I got reported and warned recently for saying someone was insane for doing a mud run the day of the wedding. Seriously? That was offensive/rude/hurtful in some way to someone? 

So no, I don't think the community would benefit from being more polite. I think people in general would benefit from not being so delicate and getting their damned feelers hurt so easily and learning to handle comments better. Do they expect to get treated with kid gloves in the real world? They're....dare I say it....insane if they think they will.

Seriously?

I wish you could see my face right now.

So for those of you who are very "Follow the rules or just leave" - is that kind of warning acceptable to you?

As a mod, I was warned for saying to the same OP in the same thread  "YOU ARE FUCKING INSANE"

Did I rolls my eyes?  Yes.  Was it a personal attack?  Yes.    As we all know, words mean something.  I could have used different words to get my point across.

Yeah, you could have, but the words you used were hardly reportable. You and I could have said, "You're a silly goose trying to do that!" and it would have meant the same thing as "You're insane." 

JennyColada

lyndausvi said:

themosthappy91 said:

pinkrevenge said:

AddieCake said:

For me, it all comes down to, once again, the definition of "being more polite." As Annabelle pointed out, special snowflakes come along and cry "Rude!" all the time and are using the word incorrectly. I know I keep bringing this up, but I feel it's an excellent example. I got reported and warned recently for saying someone was insane for doing a mud run the day of the wedding. Seriously? That was offensive/rude/hurtful in some way to someone? 

So no, I don't think the community would benefit from being more polite. I think people in general would benefit from not being so delicate and getting their damned feelers hurt so easily and learning to handle comments better. Do they expect to get treated with kid gloves in the real world? They're....dare I say it....insane if they think they will.

Seriously?

I wish you could see my face right now.

So for those of you who are very "Follow the rules or just leave" - is that kind of warning acceptable to you?

As a mod, I was warned for saying to the same OP in the same thread  "YOU ARE FUCKING INSANE"

Did I rolls my eyes?  Yes.  Was it a personal attack?  Yes.    As we all know, words mean something.  I could have used different words to get my point across.

And yet "YOU ARE ACTING INSANE" is acceptable, because you're not saying that she IS insane.

I don't see how moderating a forum on nuances is acceptable. Now THAT is insane.

PrettyGirlLost

MadHops21 said:

luckya23 said:

MadHops21 said:

julieanne912 said:

I'm a newer member so I wasn't around for the last mass exodus.  However I've been "message boarding" for a long time (even met my FI on a message board), including admining and mod-ing elsewhere, so what I'm witnessing this time around is nothing new. 

I'm like Lynda... a bit of a rule follower, and also acknowledging that these are not my boards, and they don't belong to any other member, regular or not.  I also get why they're upset.  People get comfortable on a board, form relationships, etc., so when something comes in to disrupt that, they don't like it.  But, that's why they're free to go form their own groups on Proboards or wherever else if they're not happy with what's going on here.

I originally came on these boards just to get ideas for my own wedding as I'm pretty much clueless about them.  I have learned a lot, and also had some nice discussions about non-wedding related topics.  I imagine that those will continue, with or without the current regulars, because that's how I've seen it happen elsewhere.

I will also say, that as a newer member who isn't someone that would be classified as a "strong personality", I felt pretty intimidated by a lot of the regs.  I think we've all witnessed someone asking an innocent and non-offensive question, and a few people just going nuts with it.  That isn't the way to get and keep new members, especially those that aren't as used to interneting.  Since the goal of this website is to make the owners money, I can see why they wouldn't want members around who hinder new folks from coming and participating.

You could not put this any better. Exactly this. 

Yup, me too.

I'm not really a "reg" here so I would not be interested in following anyone in particular out of here... Especially based on a hissy fit about rule changes which seem to be designed to make the community more polite and therefore accessible to all.

My wedding is in a month, so I can't say for sure if I will be as interested going forward but I still hope it does stay as active.

My wedding is next year, so I'll continue lurking, but I might stay afterwards because at least TK has other boards like getting in shape, outdoor weddings (for home party ideas for myself), babies, etc. Real life stuff. 

Do I suggest becoming sugar sweet and agreeing with everything that a SS comes in with? No, but the way some people give their advice rubs newbies the wrong way. If you look through a bunch of threads (not stating which, think that's a TOS warning), you can see newbies talking to certain people more while ignoring some of the regs. 

I have some stories to share but won't because I'm thinking someone will quote it and dig at it and make something out of it. I've seen it happen so many times, it discourages people from posting. Which is why I think these TOS changes are coming into affect. 

Advice rubs newbs the wrong way when they pretend they want advice, but actually want validation, and we don't validate them.

People, not just newbs, get rubbed the wrong way when they read a negative tone into a post that's not meant to be negative but just matter of fact, and then get defensive.

Newbs tend to ignore the people telling them their ideas are rude or their behavior is rude, and listen to the posters who appear to be validating them.

And then there are posters who are more crass and blunt with what they say.

I've been to over 30 weddings and a BM in over 10. Most of those weddings, including the most recent one I attended this weekend, had some glaring issues due to people not understanding how to properly host an event, and due to couples buying into the It's My Day mentality the wedding industry feeds them.

Most people seem to post on these boards because they enjoyed wedding planning enough to stick around after theirs was over and try to help couples plan we'll hosted events.

There are a lot of overly sensitive people who come here and aren't used to being told they are wrong, and will throw a fit and cry "bullying" no matter how nicely to tell them their idea is rude and why. No amount of TOS changes will fix those issues because those are attitude issues.

For all if the vapid validation that goes on over on WW and Wedding Bee you see the same SS behavior.

KatieinBkln

I stay (so far) because I like the wedding advice (and may still need some; wedding isn't till August). I like the humor. I like that people have relatively deep discussions about sensitive topics without burning bridges. I like that when something serious happens to someone, the support is there.

So no, I would not like these boards to be "more polite." The interesting thing about blunt advice, snark, and Real Talk is that it cuts through the bullshit and actually ALLOWS for the kind of real support/life advice that we see when someone has a real, non-party-related problem. Personally, I would not want to see "you poor thing" on a thread about a serious problem I have, if I knew I'd get an identical "poor baby" response to whining about fucking table runners or pregnant bridesmaids.

Sanitizing the wedding advice to make it happier/more polite dilutes the quality of the conversation elsewhere. And that other conversation is where real connections are made.

PrettyGirlLost

themosthappy91 said:

Okay so follow-up questions (and I appreciate y'alls responses so far):

1. First the practical question- based on something Lynda said I think I misunderstood the initial incident that caused all this kerfuffle. Have the TOS changed recently or not? What exactly set Ashley off and caused her to get banned?

2. The bigger question: putting aside issues of how much power of censorship administrators should or should not have, do YOU think this community would benefit from being more polite? And I don't mean benefit in the financial sense (as in, XO's ability to profit off the forums), but benefit in terms of your increased enjoyment of being here. Basically, would you be happier if the community where somewhat less snarky?

2. Frankly, no. It would bore the shit out of me. I'm a straight forward and snarky person to begin with. I'm not going to change my responses on the forums or to people out in the real world.

And it doesn't matter how polite you are, some entitled SS will still throw a fit because she's not used to being told no or that she's wrong.

Ive seen it happen. Addie or Lynda or myself or someone will respond to posts with no snark at all and give advice and then be called mean and accused of bullying.

So if that's the case, I'll just keep my snark. I'm going to be called mean either way!

FiancB

I can't remember what thread it was at this point, but it was said that ashley got multiple warnings and I was under the impression that it was before she went out with a bang. I'm curious what those posts were. While she was "abrasive" as often put, I never saw it being uncalled for. Quick to call people out for being shitty, sure, but also supportive in other posts. It's not like she was a troll that went out of her way to be shitty to people for no reason. 

Banning people for doxxing or for harassing someone over PM is much more clear cut. 

And I agree, people get butthurt over people disagreeing with their ideas, no matter how nicely it's done. I'm on another forum that uses a rep system that is also abused, but at least it doesn't add up to bannings. 

ETA: granted, I don't wander off of CC much since getting married almost a year ago, so maybe I missed something. 

PrettyGirlLost

kkitkat79 said:

ohannabelle said:

Okay so follow-up questions (and I appreciate y'alls responses so far):

1. First the practical question- based on something Lynda said I think I misunderstood the initial incident that caused all this kerfuffle. Have the TOS changed recently or not? What exactly set Ashley off and caused her to get banned?

2. The bigger question: putting aside issues of how much power of censorship administrators should or should not have, do YOU think this community would benefit from being more polite? And I don't mean benefit in the financial sense (as in, XO's ability to profit off the forums), but benefit in terms of your increased enjoyment of being here. Basically, would you be happier if the community where somewhat less snarky?

2: On which given day? There are polite days, and snarky days. Do I ever feel like someone goes too far? Sure. There's an undefinable line that can be crossed between sarcasm and meanness, between snark and shittiness, and where that line is will be different for each person.

Somebody blew a gasket the other day because a poster suggested eloping. It wasn't rude at all, to my perception, or unkindly suggested, but to some dainty little snowflake, it was RUDE.

Polite is a very gray area, based on individual perception, and it would be impossible to define a standard of "polite" social interaction that pleased everyone. 

 

If anyone feels that we need a kinder gentler Knot, nothing wrong with that. Be that kind and gentle person, and brava. Be you, if you're kind. I like nice people. 

But I also really like smartasses. And I like humor. And I enjoy the honest and sharp responses that reflect the genuine reactions of the people here. My humor might not be yours. Someone might say I'm rude, because there's no accounting for perception, and there are people who take themselves verrrrrry seriously, and my natural inclination is to poke a pin in that inflated kind of ego. 

So if this place became all sunshine and rainbows, I'd miss the comedy. Is humor rude? Is blunt rude? Is blatant honesty rude? 

 

Because if all of those things went away, I would definitely enjoy my reading time less. It would suck. I'd be sad.  The community would gradually yawn itself to death. 

If "polite" is a grey area then so is etiquette and I don't think many would agree with that. Isn't it generally accepted that etiquette is exactly what you said is impossible to define - a standard of polite social interaction? There is more to etiquette than just wedding etiquette.

Polite on a forum where you are reading words on a page and can't actually use tge tone if the responders voice or their facial expressions as cues to interpret the *actual* tone of the post, is a grey area.

All you can do is assume the tone, and many, many times the reader assumes a tone that is incorrect and more negative and harsh than what the author was actually intending. A lot of people read shit into posts that just isn't there, then get all defensive and huffy. And I'm not just talking about newbs.

redoryx

After many years working customer service jobs, I've adopted the motto that Me not giving you the answer you wanted doesn't mean I didn't answer your question. 

The same can be said for TK. Me not giving you the answer you wanted doesn't mean I didn't answer your question or didn't give you a good answer. Nor does my not agreeing with you mean that I'm rude or mean or whatever else an SS thinks when I don't validate them..

FiancB

PrettyGirlLost said:

kkitkat79 said:

ohannabelle said:

 A lot of people read shit into posts that just isn't there, then get all defensive and huffy. And I'm not just talking about newbs.

THIS.

Something about it being assumed an inflammatory sig was over some polar bear GIFs? What?