Knottie Tech Help

TOS Clarifications

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Re: TOS Clarifications

  • hellohkbhellohkb
    Moderator 2500 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary
    mod
    edited June 2015





    KnotHolly said:

    @hellosweetie1015 Warnings do not age out. Also, if it were the case that you upset a mod and they then went around reporting you for posts that were not in violation of the TOS, we would address that with the mod before you received warnings. If you appeal a warning that a mod believed was a true violation but it ends up getting reversed, we will always communicate with the mod to let them know why it was reversed to make sure everyone is on the same page. 

    I'm thinking warnings SHOULD have a statute of limitations, though. I think they should expire after X amount of time, like points on your licence.

    THIS EXACTLY. 



    Not defending that warnings don't ever go away, but I think if there was a change to the warning system, Tech would have to get involved to make the change. Not sure how that would go...

     

    Seriously, though, as @lyndausvi said, most regs do not have warnings. The mods spend way more time dealing with vendor spam and non-TOS violation SS reports than anything else.

    ----


    Yep! My "job" as a mod: Banning vendors and moving threads in which someone is looking for where they can get chocolate favors or airbrush makeup in Random Town, random State/Province. We spend waaaay more time dealing with that stuff than anything else.


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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
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    @hellosweetie1015 Warnings do not age out. Also, if it were the case that you upset a mod and they then went around reporting you for posts that were not in violation of the TOS, we would address that with the mod before you received warnings. If you appeal a warning that a mod believed was a true violation but it ends up getting reversed, we will always communicate with the mod to let them know why it was reversed to make sure everyone is on the same page. 
    I'm thinking warnings SHOULD have a statute of limitations, though. I think they should expire after X amount of time, like points on your licence.
    THIS EXACTLY. 

    Not defending that warnings don't ever go away, but I think if there was a change to the warning system, Tech would have to get involved to make the change. Not sure how that would go...

     

    Seriously, though, as @lyndausvi said, most regs do not have warnings. The mods spend way more time dealing with vendor spam and non-TOS violation SS reports than anything else.

    I get your point, however. . . so?

    That's their job.  To write code and implement changes.  I'm sure they'd be able to figure out how to do it, eventually.  That's what they are getting paid for, right? :-P

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


  • ShesSoColdShesSoCold bend over and I'll show ya
    Moderator 5000 Comments 500 Love Its Fourth Anniversary
    mod
    I'd be interested to see if someone has EVER been banned by the five warning system when their first or second warning was several years old. I doubt it. I think this is a non-issue that is extremely unlikely to come up. 
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    hellohkb
  • Jells2dot0Jells2dot0 Cowtown
    Moderator Seventh Anniversary 5000 Comments 500 Love Its
    mod
    @hellosweetie1015 Warnings do not age out. Also, if it were the case that you upset a mod and they then went around reporting you for posts that were not in violation of the TOS, we would address that with the mod before you received warnings. If you appeal a warning that a mod believed was a true violation but it ends up getting reversed, we will always communicate with the mod to let them know why it was reversed to make sure everyone is on the same page. 
    I'm thinking warnings SHOULD have a statute of limitations, though. I think they should expire after X amount of time, like points on your licence.
    THIS EXACTLY. 

    Not defending that warnings don't ever go away, but I think if there was a change to the warning system, Tech would have to get involved to make the change. Not sure how that would go...

     

    Seriously, though, as @lyndausvi said, most regs do not have warnings. The mods spend way more time dealing with vendor spam and non-TOS violation SS reports than anything else.

    I get your point, however. . . so?

    That's their job.  To write code and implement changes.  I'm sure they'd be able to figure out how to do it, eventually.  That's what they are getting paid for, right? :-P

    I was trying to be funny since Tech has so many other outstanding issues. Guess I need to stick with my day job!

     







  • VulgarGirlVulgarGirl Desert Oasis
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper
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    FiancB said:
    Thanks for the replies. I look forward to future ones. For the most part, it makes sense. 

    Can you please spell out what was wrong with the Louis CK video and the cannoli pic? It sounds like those things should be okay according to this post, as profanity seems to be okay. 

    Also throwing my opinion out there that the time to ban should be extended. It seems to me it would be pretty easy to make a string of posts, then go to eat dinner or sleep or something and log back in to a banning without being given a chance to rectify the situation. 
    Not to mention PMs are not easily available on mobile. Since we know that's got a snowball's chance in hell of getting fixed this decade a time delay would be ya know...less shitty.
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    esstee33FiancBchibiyui
  • VulgarGirlVulgarGirl Desert Oasis
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    FiancB said:
    KnotHolly said:
    @FiancB The Louis CK video posted included a quote with vulgar language, which is against our TOS. 


    Quote from the TOS rumors thread by Knot Riley:

    "There has been a lot of discussion regarding what is allowed and what is not on the boards. Profanity is allowed on the boards. However, once the profanity (including gifs) is directed in a harassing, abusive or taunting manner towards another member, The Knot or the Community as a whole, then the use of profanity becomes a violation of the TOS. We will evaluate the context of any use of profanity and follow our warning system in these situations."

    Why is it vulgar? Profane, definitely, but vulgar? Is it the gay sex? 

    ETA: I just looked at the TOS and there is nothing in there about vulgarity, only being malicious or inflammatory. You may wish to look yourself: https://www.theknot.com/content/knot-community-rules
    We all know it's the gay sex. Oh sure you aren't homophobic right up until we talk about one dude taking another dude's dick up his ass. Cause gay sex is dirty but dick in pussy talk is coolio. 
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  • VulgarGirlVulgarGirl Desert Oasis
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    KnotHolly said:
    @FiancB Please refer to the TOS, located here: https://www.theknot.com/content/the-knot-terms-of-use

    As we've said in the past, profanity is allowed on the boards but overtly vulgar language will most likely result in a warning, which includes sexually explicit language and images. 
    So it WAS the dick in ass talk. I mean next time just say "The idea of two dudes fucking weirds us out, we prefer to think of gay people as sexless", at least that's some honesty.

    Gay sex is more vulgar then straight sex. Because being gay is more vulgar than being straight. Don't worry. XO isn't the first company to think that.
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    FiancBCookie Pusherthespeshulestsnowflakeabcdevonn
  • FiancBFiancB MinnesOOOta
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper
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    Allnurses.com has a really smooth mobile app for the forum (well, it crashes kind of frequently, but I'd consider that really minor compared to the issues here). Just throwing that out as an example that maybe tech could model from. 

    JK. We know that won't happen. 
    image
  • VulgarGirlVulgarGirl Desert Oasis
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper
    member
    FiancB said:
    Allnurses.com has a really smooth mobile app for the forum (well, it crashes kind of frequently, but I'd consider that really minor compared to the issues here). Just throwing that out as an example that maybe tech could model from. 

    JK. We know that won't happen. 
    They probably employee more then one drunk monkey. They've got like 2 or 3...and probably insist on some sobriety for a few hours.

    Also can their admins say penis? 
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  • PrettyGirlLostPrettyGirlLost A Land Filled with Unicorns and Cat Hair
    5000 Comments Fifth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
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    KnotHolly said:

    @hellosweetie1015 Warnings do not age out. Also, if it were the case that you upset a mod and they then went around reporting you for posts that were not in violation of the TOS, we would address that with the mod before you received warnings. If you appeal a warning that a mod believed was a true violation but it ends up getting reversed, we will always communicate with the mod to let them know why it was reversed to make sure everyone is on the same page. 

    I'm thinking warnings SHOULD have a statute of limitations, though. I think they should expire after X amount of time, like points on your licence.

    THIS EXACTLY. 



    Not defending that warnings don't ever go away, but I think if there was a change to the warning system, Tech would have to get involved to make the change. Not sure how that would go...

     

    Seriously, though, as @lyndausvi said, most regs do not have warnings. The mods spend way more time dealing with vendor spam and non-TOS violation SS reports than anything else.


    I get your point, however. . . so?

    That's their job.  To write code and implement changes.  I'm sure they'd be able to figure out how to do it, eventually.  That's what they are getting paid for, right? :-P




    I was trying to be funny since Tech has so many other outstanding issues. Guess I need to stick with my day job!

    No no it wasnt a bad joke.

    But I dont think XO should use it as an excuse not to consider the suggestion is all.

    Not that i think they will consider it, lol.

    "Love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends time and space."


    FiancB
  • doeydodoeydo Southwestern Ontario
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Third Anniversary 5 Answers
    member
    @hellosweetie1015 Warnings do not age out. Also, if it were the case that you upset a mod and they then went around reporting you for posts that were not in violation of the TOS, we would address that with the mod before you received warnings. If you appeal a warning that a mod believed was a true violation but it ends up getting reversed, we will always communicate with the mod to let them know why it was reversed to make sure everyone is on the same page. 
    I'm thinking warnings SHOULD have a statute of limitations, though. I think they should expire after X amount of time, like points on your licence.
    THIS EXACTLY. 

    Not defending that warnings don't ever go away, but I think if there was a change to the warning system, Tech would have to get involved to make the change. Not sure how that would go...

     

    Seriously, though, as @lyndausvi said, most regs do not have warnings. The mods spend way more time dealing with vendor spam and non-TOS violation SS reports than anything else.

    I get your point, however. . . so?

    That's their job.  To write code and implement changes.  I'm sure they'd be able to figure out how to do it, eventually.  That's what they are getting paid for, right? :-P
    I think there you have a little too much faith in them still XD  As far as I have seen, they have not addressed, besides saying "we're working on it" about lots of things (ie. logging in and out issues and mobile issues).  Did they even ever come out with a list or something saying what the different emojis/emoticons all were?  Because all I have noticed is what people found by trial and error.
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  • doeydodoeydo Southwestern Ontario
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    So, can we talk about sex and genitalia?  Or only in certain ways that would not be seen as "vulgar" (if so could you please explain a little bit more)?  I am truly not trying to be snarky or anything, just clarify because sex does come up in conversation and there are sometimes TMI/sex threads.
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  • KnotHollyKnotHolly New York, NY
    Moderator 500 Comments 250 Love Its Third Anniversary
    admin
    doeydo said:
    So, can we talk about sex and genitalia?  Or only in certain ways that would not be seen as "vulgar" (if so could you please explain a little bit more)?  I am truly not trying to be snarky or anything, just clarify because sex does come up in conversation and there are sometimes TMI/sex threads.
    Talking about sex is definitely allowed. We've seen the TMI threads, and these are acceptable since the title of the discussion lets everyone know what's in the thread. Everyone is aware that there is probably going to be some graphic language in the thread. But in recent situations, we've seen members post descriptions using graphic language on threads where this was not the topic of discussion without any kind of "TMI warning" message, which has generally resulted in the post being removed and a warning. 
  • VulgarGirlVulgarGirl Desert Oasis
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary Name Dropper
    member
    doeydo said:
    So, can we talk about sex and genitalia?  Or only in certain ways that would not be seen as "vulgar" (if so could you please explain a little bit more)?  I am truly not trying to be snarky or anything, just clarify because sex does come up in conversation and there are sometimes TMI/sex threads.
    Just make sure you only talk in vague terms. You know when he put his wang doodle in your area and did the thrusty thing.

    Oh, and whatever you do don't talk about two girls finger banging each other. Cause that is vulgar. 
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    FiancB
  • KnotHollyKnotHolly New York, NY
    Moderator 500 Comments 250 Love Its Third Anniversary
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    I have a seriously strong problem with genitalia and sex being seen as "vuglar" in absolutely any thread on here, because My husband and I (and everyone else here) have no parts on our body that are vulgar and shameful, and sex is a normal, healthy adult activity that is KEY to almost every marriage / adult relationship on here.

    I will not take kindly to my body and the bonding activities of my marriage being seen as "vulgar", even with the use of strong language. Everyone who knows me knows that I am blunt about my adult life and I love a little potty humor. Sex is a wonderful, humorous part of life. 

    I gobble cock to keep my marriage strong, and that's wonderful of me. I encourage everyone in a healthy relationship with a consenting male-parts owner to do the same.
    As we've said in the past, talking about sex is certainly allowed here. Talking about sex and the body parts involved is not "vulgar." However when discussing these topics within the Community, there are certain rules members have to follow according to our TOS, and this includes not using "strong, vulgar, obscene, or otherwise harmful language." 

  • KatieinBklnKatieinBkln (NO SLEEP TIL) Brooklyn!
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Answer First Anniversary
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    Guys, it's SO EASY. There are "certain rules" we must follow! They relate to "strong, vulgar, obscene, or otherwise harmful language." In some manner. That has yet to be clarified. And never will be.

    When people go this far to avoid answering a question clearly, it's because of a few reasons, and a few reasons only.

    1. They don't know the answer.
    2. There is not actually an answer to share.
    3. The answer is so deeply ridiculous and arbitrary that they know to state it outright would be to cause mutiny (guess where my money is?)

    Either Holly doesn't know what she's talking about (hope not; this is her actual job), there is no clear-cut rule, or the rule is simple, but unacceptable: "Vulgar" is determined at the admins' whim, and will only be enforced on people whom they deem disruptive, off-brand, or otherwise annoying.

    I guess we have to learn to be fine with this, or bounce.
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  • MagicInk said:
    I have a seriously strong problem with genitalia and sex being seen as "vuglar" in absolutely any thread on here, because My husband and I (and everyone else here) have no parts on our body that are vulgar and shameful, and sex is a normal, healthy adult activity that is KEY to almost every marriage / adult relationship on here.

    I will not take kindly to my body and the bonding activities of my marriage being seen as "vulgar", even with the use of strong language. Everyone who knows me knows that I am blunt about my adult life and I love a little potty humor. Sex is a wonderful, humorous part of life. 

    I gobble cock to keep my marriage strong, and that's wonderful of me. I encourage everyone in a healthy relationship with a consenting male-parts owner to do the same.
    While I do not gobble cock, I eat pussy like a death row inmate just given his last meal. I dive into a muff like a well trained navy seal with big smile on my face. I suggest anyone in a healthy relationship with a consenting female-parts owner do the same.
    Wait so did the KG delete some of that post without noting so or did Pinkrevenge delete it herself? Should we just post a list of words/phrases so you can go through and individually say "yes" or "no" on your imaginarly offensive scale?
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  • MagicInk said:
    I have a seriously strong problem with genitalia and sex being seen as "vuglar" in absolutely any thread on here, because My husband and I (and everyone else here) have no parts on our body that are vulgar and shameful, and sex is a normal, healthy adult activity that is KEY to almost every marriage / adult relationship on here.

    I will not take kindly to my body and the bonding activities of my marriage being seen as "vulgar", even with the use of strong language. Everyone who knows me knows that I am blunt about my adult life and I love a little potty humor. Sex is a wonderful, humorous part of life. 

    I gobble cock to keep my marriage strong, and that's wonderful of me. I encourage everyone in a healthy relationship with a consenting male-parts owner to do the same.
    While I do not gobble cock, I eat pussy like a death row inmate just given his last meal. I dive into a muff like a well trained navy seal with big smile on my face. I suggest anyone in a healthy relationship with a consenting female-parts owner do the same.
    As a female-parts owner, I concur.

    And here's another thing; whether or not a thread started as a TMI thread, sometimes threads are long, the topic meanders, and these things come up, just like they would if we were all gathered together at someone's house. Because they are normal, healthy parts of adult life they are also a normal, healthy part of conversation. I will absolutely not apologize if a thread that wasn't originally that topic switches into that kind of topic because we were all communicating like an actual active community.

    I also think making adult conversations "vulgar" has some serious anti-feminist issues that I will not support. 
    I'm out.
    VulgarGirlKahlylaRezIpsa
  • MobKazMobKaz Chicago suburbs
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    KnotHolly said:
    doeydo said:
    So, can we talk about sex and genitalia?  Or only in certain ways that would not be seen as "vulgar" (if so could you please explain a little bit more)?  I am truly not trying to be snarky or anything, just clarify because sex does come up in conversation and there are sometimes TMI/sex threads.
    Talking about sex is definitely allowed. We've seen the TMI threads, and these are acceptable since the title of the discussion lets everyone know what's in the thread. Everyone is aware that there is probably going to be some graphic language in the thread. But in recent situations, we've seen members post descriptions using graphic language on threads where this was not the topic of discussion without any kind of "TMI warning" message, which has generally resulted in the post being removed and a warning. 
    As a REALLY OMH, and certainly NOT the demographic you seek, this is where I take issue with the TOS. I have never used the F-bomb on the boards. I doubt I have even sworn in most posts (although there might be a rage or rant in old STB posts). IRL, I have been known to cuss like a sailor (hopefully that does not get me a warning for discriminatory language against sailors) when provoked. However, I am more than capable of making adult decisions about what I can and cannot handle reading on a public and international forum. I might not be a personal fan of @Addie's "waffles", and I can absolutely live without the F-word interspersed infinitum in a post. But I am CHOOSING to read these boards, and I can choose to stop reading if my sensibilities become offended.
    cupcait927
  • Cookie PusherCookie Pusher Looking over your shoulder
    Sixth Anniversary 2500 Comments 500 Love Its 5 Answers
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    Wait, are dresses that look like they have vaginas on them vulgar? Because we've seen many of them posted in dress threads. I mean, I would not expect a dress that looks like a vag but no one puts a warning in those thread titles...
    ~*~*~*~*~

    VulgarGirlsarahufl
  • hellosweetie1015hellosweetie1015 Where the skies are so blue
    2500 Comments 500 Love Its First Anniversary First Answer
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    edited June 2015
    KnotHolly said:

    I have a seriously strong problem with genitalia and sex being seen as "vuglar" in absolutely any thread on here, because My husband and I (and everyone else here) have no parts on our body that are vulgar and shameful, and sex is a normal, healthy adult activity that is KEY to almost every marriage / adult relationship on here.

    I will not take kindly to my body and the bonding activities of my marriage being seen as "vulgar", even with the use of strong language. Everyone who knows me knows that I am blunt about my adult life and I love a little potty humor. Sex is a wonderful, humorous part of life. 

    I gobble cock to keep my marriage strong, and that's wonderful of me. I encourage everyone in a healthy relationship with a consenting male-parts owner to do the same.
    ******
    As we've said in the past, talking about sex is certainly allowed here. Talking about sex and the body parts involved is not "vulgar." However when discussing these topics within the Community, there are certain rules members have to follow according to our TOS, and this includes not using "strong, vulgar, obscene, or otherwise harmful language." 
    ******
    Doublespeak and politicking at its finest. KnotHolly for President!

    But really though. Vulgar is subjective. Strong is subjective. Obscene is subjective.

    I think the word "goddamn" is strong. I think the word "moist" is vulgar. Personally, I think the word "cunt" is obscene, and I try very hard not to use it. But plenty of people use those words quite happily, and so clearly their definitions are different than mine.

    If you can't OUTLINE what "strong, vulgar, or obscene" is, you can't enforce it appropriately, and you end up in this hot mess you admins are in. Apparently your legal team and your tech team are the same drunk monkey parakeet if they didn't know that.

    EDITED TO FIX THE GODDAMN BOXES. A drunk monkey could do a better job than this; their tech team must not have hands. 
    Daisypath Wedding tickers
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    VulgarGirlesstee33
  • KahlylaKahlyla Moncton, NB
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    Who decides what is vulgar or obscene? Talking about sex and genitals is okay. Profanity is okay. Yet that Louis CK video was not okay, and apparently neither is a picture of dessert. Dessert that looks like a penis. Even though the word penis is okay. *is confused*

    So let's say I enjoy going down on my husband - I do, after all. Is saying, "You know, old chap, I do so enjoy performing fellatio" acceptable but, "ZOMG, I just LOVE guzzling cum!" unacceptable? Just an example, you understand. Or would it only be a problem if I enjoyed eating pussy (I probably would, haven't had the chance to try it just yet, you see)? Or is it only if I get too detailed about the pussy that it would be a problem? Or is it ALL good if I simply post *TMI* or *NSFW* first? Because in the case of videos, something like a NSFW alert would actually make sense and it's what we require over at a different forum I moderate, but oddly I haven't seen that mentioned here at all.
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    FiancB
  • FiancBFiancB MinnesOOOta
    500 Love Its 1000 Comments Second Anniversary Name Dropper
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    Wow, she wrote out the word sex.

    image

    It's okay. 3 rounds of the rosary after confession should save you from going to hell. 

    PSA: I was going to try real hard to be reasonable and patient with all this but fuck it.  Harder. HARDER. 
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  • KnotHollyKnotHolly New York, NY
    Moderator 500 Comments 250 Love Its Third Anniversary
    admin
    To clarify, "vulgar" language includes language and gifs that use offensive or explicit reference to sexual and bodily functions in a distasteful, profane, x-rated, or obscene way. The way these sexually explicit terms are being used in this thread is not appropriate or constructive. We ask that you use basic etiquette on the boards and refrain from using this strong language.   

    Your feedback has brought to our attention that our TK Community Rules have not been updated since we updated our new TOS. We apologize for that confusion and we are working on updating the Community Rules so they are both in sync. Hopefully, this will further clear up what kinds of language is or is not allowed on the boards.

    We appreciate your feedback on the TOS and we are working to include your thoughts in our updated rules. We'll be closing this thread for further comments, but please feel free to PM me or @KnotRiley with any other questions or thoughts.
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