Fiance and mom are fighting over expenses!

madamerwin

To be honest, this seems like a communication issue that got way blown out of proportion. It sounds like both FI and your mom behaved inappropriately and probably both owe each other an apology.

Then I think you should all start over on the money conversation. See my earlier response - if you take a few practical steps now to determine whose money should go where, you can avoid headaches and drama in the future.

Or, as you said, you can decline your mom's money and plan a wedding you, FI, and your dad can afford. $30K is still a decent-sized budget, even for a California wedding.

ETF typo

LondonLisa

Knottie1447172022 said:

He's never demanded money from her, I don't get where everyone is getting that.  The only thing he was saying was that the cost of the flights (for him & I) to fly to California (which he paid for) was part of the wedding expense budget.  THAT IS ALL.  He's never demanded money, LOL.  Nor would he ever!

If she said no flights as wedding costs and he insisted yes- that is demanding money that isn't his.

As for dropping the F-bomb, I feel that is pretty general knowledge that one shouldn't be so crass as to swear in front of your FMIL in anger. 

Knottie1447172022

Yeah, I don't understand where people keep saying he is demanding money.  LOL he never once has.  So get that through your head people.  He's absolutely in the wrong for being confrontational/arguing with her, but she has no place calling him names. 

AddieCake

OP did not say he dropped the f bomb in anger. She says it was "during a conversation." I say fuck all the time, often not at all in anger. And none of what he has said or done equates to him demanding money. 

ETA: I would never curse in front of my in-laws if I hadn't heard them already do so themselves.

flantastic

Knottie1447172022 said:

Yeah, I don't understand where people keep saying he is demanding money.  LOL he never once has.  So get that through your head people.  He's absolutely in the wrong for being confrontational/arguing with her, but she has no place calling him names. 

It doesn't have to be spoken directly - "FMIL, give us more money" - to be demanded. Your mom thinks travel expenses are not wedding expenses. Your FI does. By "standing his ground" he's essentially saying, "We're contributing less to what you think are actual wedding expenses, but you should contribute the same amount, for sure." If I were your mom I would see that as incredibly ungrateful and yes, demanding behavior.

LondonLisa

Knottie1447172022 said:

Yeah, I don't understand where people keep saying he is demanding money.  LOL he never once has.  So get that through your head people.  He's absolutely in the wrong for being confrontational/arguing with her, but she has no place calling him names. 

"Standing your ground" that wedding funds are to be included in the 15K match that your mum offered, when she explicitly said no, is saying "you need to match my $400 contribution". That is demanding money. That is rude.

Your mum is giving you 15K. Maybe more "thank yous" and less ultimatums might go farther. 

Knottie1447172022

He never once used the F bomb directly at her.  He would never do that.  He used it in a conversation in a subjective way.  The entire issue is that he used the F bomb.  That's the issue.

AddieCake

Ugh. Why do I keep forgetting it's a match situation? Then yes, I can see how that comes off as demanding money. But I'm staying firmly in camp ok to swear.

Knottie1447172022

I agree with everyone that he was rude- yes.  But being rude doesn't suddenly make him this horrible person to the extent that she is concerned about our upcoming marriage.  My mom was very rude and inappropriate to him as well.  I think they both owe each other apology and need have some better communication!

AddieCake

Yeah, OP, I agree these are not red flags to make you reconsider your nuptials. 

LondonLisa

Do I think your mum is overreacting? 100% Especially if it wasn't a swear AT her but rather in her presence. 

But do you and your fi sound like ungrateful brats? 100% 

I don't think you should call off your wedding but I just cannot believe your fi has the disgusting entitlement to argue this with your mum and you are ok with that! 

nerdwife

Knottie1447172022 said:

I agree with everyone that he was rude- yes.  But being rude doesn't suddenly make him this horrible person to the extent that she is concerned about our upcoming marriage.  My mom was very rude and inappropriate to him as well.  I think they both owe each other apology and need have some better communication!

I don't care about the cursing. I mean, I curse in life, but not ever in front of FILs, because that's common sense. But whatever, that doesn't mean you shouldn't marry him.

I'm concerned that he argued with your mom at all, particularly over her generous contribution to your wedding. But it seems part of the problem must be you - you don't see this as demanding money, which it is, so maybe FI is taking cues from you about what is appropriate here. He is still wrong, but maybe you're both just not mature enough to handle this situation.

themosthappy91

I agree that while he definitely wasn't directly demanding money, he was basically telling her she needed to match his "contribution" for the travel expenses etc., which she didn't feel was really a contribution. So, while not as bad as saying "I demand you give me money," it's still very rude. 

Honestly though a big part of this is your mom's fault- she should never have proposed a system in which her monetary gift to the couple was contingent on it being matched by what they were spending. That's just a recipe for disaster. 

It sounds like both your FI and mother owe each other apologies, but I think you should encourage him to take the first step because he's really more in the wrong. She called him names, yelled at him and said things in anger- but he was the one who was fundamentally wrong in the situation as a whole. There never would have been a blow up if he hadn't been "standing his ground" on such a rude position.

I also agree with PP that you should pay back what you can of the money she's already contributed. She obviously doesn't agree with and isn't happy with this wedding (both in the surface sense of she doesn't like where it's physically happening and in the deeper sense of she thinks y'all need counseling and he's displaying red flags). 

glasgowtolondon

I say fuck all the time, sometimes in anger but mainly I just like to say it. Means nothing most of the time.

I've lurked this thread and it's been quite hard to follow at times. What is clear is that regardless of who said what to who, and whose tab a flight sits on, and who clutched their pearls at a curse word, no one is clear on what the terms of any gifted $$'s are. All of this has been caused by lack of communication, and money. If you and your FI can't sit down and have a calm conversation with your mother AND father to map out who pays what and any strings like grown ass adults, then for the love of god pay for this wedding yourself.

Knottie1447172022

I am not okay with him arguing with my mom.  Totally not okay.  And I told him that.  I'm part of the problem?  I am trying to keep the peace between my FI and mother. 

nerdwife

Knottie1447172022 said:

I am not okay with him arguing with my mom.  Totally not okay.  And I told him that.  I'm part of the problem?  I am trying to keep the peace between my FI and mother. 

So tell your FI he is not to argue with her, especially in a way that - as explained repeatedly by PPs - is basically demanding money.

Then, take ten steps back.

Realize your FI is wrong because your mom is contributing, so her rules are right, no matter what he thinks.

Have him apologize. You apologize.

If you still want to take your mom's money, sit down with her and ask her to please lay out all the terms. Also talk to your dad. Who is paying the second $15K? The third?

Pay for actual, agreed-upon wedding expenses up to $15K. Then use whatever framework your parents have set out for the remaining $30K. Accept whatever framework and terms they present.

The end.

holyguacamole79

Knottie1447172022 said:

I am not okay with him arguing with my mom.  Totally not okay.  And I told him that.  I'm part of the problem?  I am trying to keep the peace between my FI and mother. 

Have you told him that you're not okay with him arguing like this??

kimmiinthemitten

Just because he didn't put a gun to her head and say "give me your wallet" doesn't mean that he wasn't demanding.  He, along with you, agreed to take your mom's money and then after tried to set the rules.  That's just not how it works.  What if FI asked you for $50.00 to go grocery shopping and came back with combos, chips and pop?  Technically, it's all food bought at a grocery store, but you know and he knows that's not what you gave him $50.00 for.

Your mom is telling you she is hurt.   You can either listen to her, and help your FI take steps to rectify the relationship or you can deal with this kind of battle for the rest of your lives.  Be the bigger person.  Have your FI apologize and return the money.

ETF words

GlamQueenBride

Jen4948 said:

GlamQueenBride said:

I didn't say the groom should bully them. I'm asking why he isn't. That's an entirely different thing. Obviously, his parents put up barriers and he knows he can't get away with this kind of BS with his own parents. Why is the OP allowing him to get away with it with hers?

What is our business is the OP's relationships with her parents and her FI, and his relationship with her parents.

But sorry, it's not our business where his parents are in this.  If it were, the OP would have mentioned it in her post.

BS. As is often said around here, you can post whatever you want and we'll comment on whatever we want. Just because the OP didn't mention it in her post doesn't make the question off-limits any more than it would any other question.

Jen4948

GlamQueenBride said:

Jen4948 said:

GlamQueenBride said:

I didn't say the groom should bully them. I'm asking why he isn't. That's an entirely different thing. Obviously, his parents put up barriers and he knows he can't get away with this kind of BS with his own parents. Why is the OP allowing him to get away with it with hers?

What is our business is the OP's relationships with her parents and her FI, and his relationship with her parents.

But sorry, it's not our business where his parents are in this.  If it were, the OP would have mentioned it in her post.

BS. As is often said around here, you can post whatever you want and we'll comment on whatever we want. Just because the OP didn't mention it in her post doesn't make the question off-limits any more than it would any other question.

BS yourself.  The issue at hand is that the OP's mom, her dad, and she and her FI agreed to split wedding costs up to a certain amount, but don't agree on who should pay for what.

It's not the groom's family's responsibility to contribute one fucking penny to the costs of the wedding.  Nor is it their job to get involved between him, the OP, and her parents.  Nor are they entitled to any say whatsoever as to how someone else's money should be spent. So where they are in this is irrelevant, and that makes it not our business.

GlamQueenBride

AddieCake said:

If Mom swears at her house, how would fiancé know he couldn't? I also am still not seeing anywhere where fiancé is demanding money from anyone. 

ETA: Maybe fiancé is owed an apology for being called "abnormal." 

I'm sorry, but you have to be completely devoid of common sense and class to go into your mother-in-law's home and start dropping the f-bomb. And yes, he is demanding money because as noted above, her mom is offering to match the budget they put out, so if the Fi is insisting ("standing his ground") that travel expenses be counted, then that's an extra thousand or whatever that he's expecting her to match since she wants everything to be even, for whatever reason. I can't think of a scenario in which this Fi isn't in the wrong.

GlamQueenBride

Jen4948 said:

GlamQueenBride said:

Jen4948 said:

GlamQueenBride said:

I didn't say the groom should bully them. I'm asking why he isn't. That's an entirely different thing. Obviously, his parents put up barriers and he knows he can't get away with this kind of BS with his own parents. Why is the OP allowing him to get away with it with hers?

What is our business is the OP's relationships with her parents and her FI, and his relationship with her parents.

But sorry, it's not our business where his parents are in this.  If it were, the OP would have mentioned it in her post.

BS. As is often said around here, you can post whatever you want and we'll comment on whatever we want. Just because the OP didn't mention it in her post doesn't make the question off-limits any more than it would any other question.

BS yourself.  The issue at hand is that the OP's mom, her dad, and she and her FI agreed to split wedding costs up to a certain amount, but don't agree on who should pay for what.

It's not the groom's family's responsibility to contribute one fucking penny to the costs of the wedding.  Nor is it their job to get involved between him, the OP, and her parents.  Nor are they entitled to any say whatsoever as to how someone else's money should be spent. So where they are in this is irrelevant, and that makes it not our business.

When did I ever say it's his family's responsibility? Never. So stop twisting words to meet your needs. My question speaks to the Fi's lack of class in badgering his future-in-laws with behavior that he likely would never get away with with his own family. You think it's irrelevant? Skip my post, but don't try to dictate what others should post.

glasgowtolondon

If someone says 'fuck' in conversation in my house, oh well. If someone tells me to go fuck myself in my house, all bets are off. There is a difference.

There is enough drama here, lets not make more unnecessarily. 

AddieCake

GlamQueenBride said:

AddieCake said:

If Mom swears at her house, how would fiancé know he couldn't? I also am still not seeing anywhere where fiancé is demanding money from anyone. 

ETA: Maybe fiancé is owed an apology for being called "abnormal." 

I'm sorry, but you have to be completely devoid of common sense and class to go into your mother-in-law's home and start dropping the f-bomb. And yes, he is demanding money because as noted above, her mom is offering to match the budget they put out, so if the Fi is insisting ("standing his ground") that travel expenses be counted, then that's an extra thousand or whatever that he's expecting her to match since she wants everything to be even, for whatever reason. I can't think of a scenario in which this Fi isn't in the wrong.

You have no idea the circumstances under which he said fuck. OP says it was "in a conversation."

 I guess I'm devoid of class and common sense, then, because I say fuck at my in-laws. Why? Because they do, and when they say, " I don't think they have a fuckin' prayer of winning this game,"  I assume I can respond similarly. 

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Jen4948

I think both sides are in the wrong, and there's been a lot of communication fails.

First was that nobody sat down, created a budget, and worked out where the money for each particular line item would come from.  Everyone just threw out lump sums of money but were vague about what it covered, and then developed hurt feelings when it turned out there was disagreement.

I think the FI is wrong for trying to "stand his ground" and nickel-and-dime travel expenses and whatever else into a $15,000 budget, and for swearing in the OP's mother's house.

But the OP's mother is wrong to red-flag it as a "warning sign" that something is wrong with the OP's relationship or with the FI's mental health.  And if she's been swearing at him, that's wrong too.  It's hypocritical of her to complain about his swearing when she's setting a bad example by doing it herself.

As everyone suggests, I think it's time to go back to the drawing board as far as the budget goes.  OP, return whatever you still have of the $15,000 (if any) to your mother, repay any of it that you've spent, and forgo any of it that you haven't received.  Your FI should apologize to your mom, period.  Then, with your FI, plan a wedding that the two of you can afford without any contribution from your mother.

GlamQueenBride

AddieCake said:

GlamQueenBride said:

AddieCake said:

If Mom swears at her house, how would fiancé know he couldn't? I also am still not seeing anywhere where fiancé is demanding money from anyone. 

ETA: Maybe fiancé is owed an apology for being called "abnormal." 

I'm sorry, but you have to be completely devoid of common sense and class to go into your mother-in-law's home and start dropping the f-bomb. And yes, he is demanding money because as noted above, her mom is offering to match the budget they put out, so if the Fi is insisting ("standing his ground") that travel expenses be counted, then that's an extra thousand or whatever that he's expecting her to match since she wants everything to be even, for whatever reason. I can't think of a scenario in which this Fi isn't in the wrong.

You have no idea the circumstances under which he said fuck. OP says it was "in a conversation."

 I guess I'm devoid of class and common sense, then, because I say fuck at my in-laws. Why? Because they do, and when they say, " I don't think they have a fuckin' prayer of winning this game,"  I assume I can respond similarly. 

Jesus Fucking Christ.

To each their own. I would never think it's appropriate to swear in my future-in-law's home and clearly it wasn't appropriate in this case or else the FMIL wouldn't have been offended. So instead of blaming her for being offended, I choose to blame the Fi for having demonstrated poor behavioral judgment in repeated interactions with his FMIL. The cursing is just one thing. Monetary demands is another.

geebee908

You and your FI need to get a handle on your parents' expectations for the money. It would be nice if they just treated it as a gift of $15K and let the two of you spend it on the wedding. 

But it seems Mom has an opinion about how her money is spent, so you should probably line item what she wants to pay for and let her handle those expenses or not accept her contribution.

madamerwin

AddieCake said:

GlamQueenBride said:

AddieCake said:

If Mom swears at her house, how would fiancé know he couldn't? I also am still not seeing anywhere where fiancé is demanding money from anyone. 

ETA: Maybe fiancé is owed an apology for being called "abnormal." 

I'm sorry, but you have to be completely devoid of common sense and class to go into your mother-in-law's home and start dropping the f-bomb. And yes, he is demanding money because as noted above, her mom is offering to match the budget they put out, so if the Fi is insisting ("standing his ground") that travel expenses be counted, then that's an extra thousand or whatever that he's expecting her to match since she wants everything to be even, for whatever reason. I can't think of a scenario in which this Fi isn't in the wrong.

You have no idea the circumstances under which he said fuck. OP says it was "in a conversation."

 I guess I'm devoid of class and common sense, then, because I say fuck at my in-laws. Why? Because they do, and when they say, " I don't think they have a fuckin' prayer of winning this game,"  I assume I can respond similarly. 

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Agreed. I sure as hell swear at MIL's house, because swearing is completely acceptable there (barring the presence of elderly grandma or children of an impressionable age). But when it's all adults playing a game of hearts at 10pm, you'll hear swear words being thrown around like confetti. Same as my house growing up - my dad dropped the F-bomb all the damn time, and we were taught as children that while it is never appropriate to swear at people, there are indeed times when curse words are a great way to convey a point.

So I guess according to @GlamQueenBride I, as well as my MIL and my own family, are completely devoid of common sense and class. 

Everyone's circumstances are different, so you probably shouldn't go telling people they are classless, clueless assholes because of something that you personally deem inappropriate.

monkeysip

Mom is completely free to offer her money as she wishes, in whatever amount, and with whatever strings attached...

But am I the only one who finds the "matching" system really weird?  This isn't a charitable contribution.  If a parent wants to offer money, I think it'd be so much more simple and drama free to just offer the amount you're comfortable with, or just offer to pay for something in particular.  This whole "I only want to spend $15k if you spend 15k" just seems weird to me in the context of a wedding.

crowsgirl15

monkeysip said:

Mom is completely free to offer her money as she wishes, in whatever amount, and with whatever strings attached...

But am I the only one who finds the "matching" system really weird?  This isn't a charitable contribution.  If a parent wants to offer money, I think it'd be so much more simple and drama free to just offer the amount you're comfortable with, or just offer to pay for something in particular.  This whole "I only want to spend $15k if you spend 15k" just seems weird to me in the context of a wedding.

I 100% agree with you. This is what confused me to begin with...if she's offering 15K, why does it matter what she considers wedding expenses or not when it comes to your contribution? I'll be honest, this whole situation confuses me and makes me question that we're getting a clear story about the mother's complaints.