Fiance and mom are fighting over expenses!

AddieCake

But asking why he isn't, to me, implies you think he should be. And we don't know that he didn't try. I also am still not entirely convinced he's "bullying" the bride's parents, either.

GlamQueenBride

It implies no such thing and even if it did, I have now spelled out to you that that isn't what I was implying by any means. I'm asking WHY he thinks it's appropriate to treat her parents this way and not his own parents. After all, they're having the wedding in CA because that's where his family is. Why does he think it's okay to nickle and dime her family to pay for a wedding they're not fully on-board with so that he can make it more convenient for his family?

And I absolutely think he's bullying them. By insisting they pay for this and that to the point of making her mother so furious that she's refusing to talk to him, all because they're having the wedding in California where his family lives. He sounds like a spoiled, entitled brat to me. Most mature men (and women) would graciously thank their future in-laws for contributing ANYTHING to the wedding, let alone 15K and go about their business paying for everything else themselves.

themosthappy91

Is OP's FI acting like a jerk? Sure. Is he bullying her mom? I don't think so.

We constantly have to tell posters who come on here, get an answer they don't like and cry "bullying" that bullying is actually a really serious issue and they shouldn't use that term so lightly. I think that sentiment applies here also- to me, it sounds like the mom is just really annoyed he keeps asking them to pay for stuff they don't want to. That doesn't rise to the level of real harassment or intimidation, and there's no power dynamic at play. From what we know, I don't think this is bullying.

ETA: I'm surprised and disappointed OP hasn't come back. It sounded like she truly felt caught in the middle and didn't know which side was right in her original post, so I thought maybe we'd hear from her again.

AddieCake

Nowhere in the OP does it say fiancé is "insisting her parents pay for this and that."

madamerwin

YourDogDontKnowSit said:

I'm confused too. If you and your FI don't reach your 15k contribution is your mom going to give less? That is the only way what your FI is doing would make "sense" to me, although a grown ass man playing games like that doesn't make sense at all. But say you and your FI only end up spending/contributing 14k....does your mom's contribution then become 14k as well? So he is trying to add up all the little expenses to "make" the 15k? 

This is what I am wondering too... If OP's parents are planning to pay $15K, are they only giving that much if OP and FI also spend $15K? 

Either way, all of this seems backwards. Sounds like you have a budget - $30K (or $60K? It's unclear). So after you set a guest list, the next step is allocating that money... About 60% should go to the reception (food, drinks, reception space, etc.), with the rest allocated to ceremony space, officiant/license, bride and groom's apparel, invitations, other decor, etc. Whether you include wedding bands in the budget is up to whoever is contributing, but I think it's ridiculous to try to include travel in this budget. That is a separate expense.

In reality, OP, you need to ask your parents specifically what they want their contribution to go to - maybe they want to pay for the caterer, reception space, DJ, photographer, whatever. And then you and FI need to pay for everything else. Or, you decline their offer to contribute and plan a wedding you and FI can afford on your own. It's that simple. 

GlamQueenBride

AddieCake said:

Nowhere in the OP does it say fiancé is "insisting her parents pay for this and that."

Which is why I didn't put that line in quotes. There was a reason for that and that was it. However, what she does say is that her Fi thinks pre-wedding expenses should go toward their contribution to the 15K, meaning that they will reach their 15K with all this extra stuff, leaving the mom's 15K to pay for the wedding when the alternative is that the couple pays for the extra stuff themselves and STILL contributes 15K to their own wedding. What we don't know is if the mom's 15K was a set price without wiggle room. If the couple contributes 15K to the wedding, will the mom have to pay less and that's what she's pissed about? If the wedding costs more than 15K, will the mom pay more? We don't know. But regardless, the Fi's lack of grace is a huge red flag and shouldn't be tolerated. If my Fi greeted an offer of 15K by my parents with anything less than a "thank you so much for your generous offer," there would be no wedding, but maybe that's just me.

Regarding the bullying issue, this is the term the mother used, per the original post. So what the details are exactly, we don't know, but this is how his behavior is coming across to the bride's mother and that's what I was referring to in my original post when I asked why he wasn't bullying his own parents. Perhaps I should have said why isn't he making his own parents feel like he's bullying them.

Knottie1447172022

Hi everyone, okay... definitely can clear up some things here.  I apologize my original post was so confusing.  I can see why it came across the way.  Anyways, my mom is contributing 15k, my dad is contributing 15k (parents are divorced, and my fiance is contributing 15k.  So,yes- we have a wedding budget of 45k.  I think it's a bit appalling some people act like I am not appreciative for my parents contributing that amount of money.  I am absolutely appreciative and couldn't feel any more blessed.  They offered to help pay, and any other costs would land on my fiance and I.  We were not even expecting them to pay, and were prepared to pay for our wedding on our own.  I absolutely agree with everyone's comments that how the money is being divided up and being spent was a poor choice.  I just don't know how to come up with a better solution to ensure everyone is on the same page. My mom wants everything to be equal so one person isn't paying more than another.  In all reality, I could care less, because at the end of the day, it is just money.  I am more concerned about everyone getting along and not have a poor relationship with each other. And of course, this has put a huge damper on everything.  My mom atually pulled me aside last night and wants me to get counseling because she feels like this is a serious red flag with my fiance and is a character flaw.  My fiance doesn't bully my mom- I wouldn't allow him to.  He was standing his ground about something he thought was right- I did tell him I didn't agree with it.  However, my mom and him couldn't meet in the middle about all of this.  She actually ended up calling him some pretty unkind names to his face.  At this point, I am so upset about the whole situation that I don't want my mom's involvement with paying for anything further.  I would rather have all the costs on us from this day forward so it doesn't create any more unnecessary drama.

thefanciestbeckler

Why do people post and then never come back to respond to clear things up if people have questions? Drives me bonkers.

AddieCake

So I'm back to my original feelings, then.  There is $45 k to spend. Who cares who pays for what, specifically? If money that could be used for monogrammed napkins gets spent on gas for a trip to discuss wedding stuff, oh, well. No monogrammed napkins, then. As long as vendor costs are covered, it shouldn't matter who pays for what specifically, so just make sure that happens. 

crowsgirl15

Knottie1447172022 said:

Hi everyone, okay... definitely can clear up some things here.  I apologize my original post was so confusing.  I can see why it came across the way.  Anyways, my mom is contributing 15k, my dad is contributing 15k (parents are divorced, and my fiance is contributing 15k.  So,yes- we have a wedding budget of 45k.  I think it's a bit appalling some people act like I am not appreciative for my parents contributing that amount of money.  I am absolutely appreciative and couldn't feel any more blessed.  They offered to help pay, and any other costs would land on my fiance and I.  We were not even expecting them to pay, and were prepared to pay for our wedding on our own.  I absolutely agree with everyone's comments that how the money is being divided up and being spent was a poor choice.  I just don't know how to come up with a better solution to ensure everyone is on the same page. My mom wants everything to be equal so one person isn't paying more than another.  In all reality, I could care less, because at the end of the day, it is just money.  I am more concerned about everyone getting along and not have a poor relationship with each other. And of course, this has put a huge damper on everything.  My mom atually pulled me aside last night and wants me to get counseling because she feels like this is a serious red flag with my fiance and is a character flaw.  My fiance doesn't bully my mom- I wouldn't allow him to.  He was standing his ground about something he thought was right- I did tell him I didn't agree with it.  However, my mom and him couldn't meet in the middle about all of this.  She actually ended up calling him some pretty unkind names to his face. He was standing his ground about the fact that he is paying for trips back and forth to California to take care of wedding stuff.

But...standing his ground about what? It's your travel, of course you would pay for that. Here's the issue: your mother's contribution comes with strings. Her string is that she wants to make sure everyone is contributing equally. Her string also means that trips back and forth to California not be counted as part of the "equal" contributions. If you and your fiancee are not comfortable with that, you need to thank her but decline her offer.

And you need to be the one talking to your mother. This may just be me...but your fiance probably shouldn't be talking about this with her at all. I would sit down with her alone and find out what she feels are part of wedding expenses, and, thus, what you three will be splitting. And then you say thank you and pay for the rest yourself.

Knottie1447172022

I agree with you!  Those are my thoughts exactly.  X amount of money is going to be spent towards wedding related costs no matter what they are. 

Jen4948

GlamQueenBride said:

I didn't say the groom should bully them. I'm asking why he isn't. That's an entirely different thing. Obviously, his parents put up barriers and he knows he can't get away with this kind of BS with his own parents. Why is the OP allowing him to get away with it with hers?

What is our business is the OP's relationships with her parents and her FI, and his relationship with her parents.

But sorry, it's not our business where his parents are in this.  If it were, the OP would have mentioned it in her post.

crowsgirl15

Knottie1447172022 said:

I agree with you!  Those are my thoughts exactly.  X amount of money is going to be spent towards wedding related costs no matter what they are. 

But is that true? It sounds like your mother feels that it's not that it's 15K, 15K, 15K...it's that you're splitting wedding cost 3 ways...I'm not saying she's right, but that's certainly how she seems to be treating it. Is it possible there's a misunderstanding?

poodledoodleooo

Okay, I can actually say I can completely understand where your fiance is coming from. When we made our wedding budget we definitely factored BOTH of our wedding ring expenses and our honeymoon costs. If we had additional travel for planning (or tasting, or whatever), we would have included that in our wedding budget as well. We only had so much money we could spend on this whole event without wrecking our daily/weekly/monthly spending budgets, goals and plans. We had and absolute max of 15k totally to spend - about 12 ish on the wedding and 3 on a honeymoon. We simply didn't have a dime more than that to spend without our regular monthly expenses going haywire.

You need to sit down with your fiance and say "if we aren't including travel costs, the wedding bands, and anything else my mom doesn't think should be included as a 'wedding expense' ... how much can we actually contribute? Can we still contribute 15k without including those items?"

Once you have that number - let's say it's 10k for a nice and easy example number - go back to your mom and say you made a mistake. You didn't realize that you these items (travel, wedding bands, etc) weren't considered part of the "wedding budget" and now you can only afford to contribute 10k total, and if she wants to adjust how much she can or wants to contribute based on that, that is fine. This will reduce your overall budget, but you just might have to deal with that.

What I DON'T think should happen is that you and your fiance should suddenly be expected to pay thousands more than you planned to or can afford to because you three initially had a miscommunication. Figure out your new budget or contribution is. Let her know that this is how much you two can contribute and she is obviously more than welcome to adjust her contribution to keep things equal and fair.

I also wanted to add that I don't think it is okay for your fiance to attack your mother or your mother to attack your fiance. It sounds like a case of extremely poor communication, and hopefully one that can be resolved.

LondonLisa

I don't understand the issue. Your mother said she would essentially match what you spend, up to 15K not including travel.

those are her terms, either accept these terms or don't accept her money. There should be no negotiations or further discussions. 

This is also why is is imperative to follow 2 key rules:
1.) you and your fi need to be on the same page BEFORE you discuss it with others

2.) everyone needs to handle their own families. 

I do think your fi has some big bollocks to try to negotiate a change in terms with your mum. That is incredibly entitled and immature. 

madamerwin

Ok, OP, here's what you should do, in this order:

1. Decide on a guest list. Get it to at least a rough estimate of who you will invite. Since your parents are contributing, ask them to provide you with their guest lists as well. Compile the entire list (don't forget to invite all significant others, as well as plus one's, if you choose to give them to single guests). Also, decide on whether you will invite children - it's okay not to, if you choose to have a child-free event.

2. Find a venue that is large enough to hold all of your invited guests, plus a little wiggle room in case any single guests enter into a relationship before invitations get sent out. Pick a date for your wedding based on venue availability.

3. Find a caterer, photographer, officiant, band/DJ, cake baker, etc. Decide on how much you want to spend on your wedding dress/FI's apparel, accessories, etc. Pick out your invitations.

4. Now you will have an estimate of exactly how much your wedding will cost (obviously, without a solid guest count, catering costs will vary, but assume you will have 100% attendance). If the cost is too high, repeat the process - consider cutting the guest list, finding a less expensive venue, etc.

5. Once you have settled on vendors, split that cost three ways, and let your parents know how much it will be. If the total is over $45K, you and your FI will be responsible for the remainder. 

Knottie1447172022

I should put something towards this event?  Uh, yes I have... plenty.  Engagement photos, save the date invitations, wedding dress... I purchased this on my own accord.  So, don't act like I haven't contributed anything.  Gladly I have, and I was more than happy to. 

crowsgirl15

LondonLisa said:

I don't understand the issue. Your mother said she would essentially match what you spend, up to 15K not including travel.

those are her terms, either accept these terms or don't accept her money. There should be no negotiations or further discussions. 

This is also why is is imperative to follow 2 key rules:
1.) you and your fi need to be on the same page BEFORE you discuss it with others

2.) everyone needs to handle their own families. 

I do think your fi has some big bollocks to try to negotiate a change in terms with your mum. That is incredibly entitled and immature. 

This was a beautiful way to put it, and makes much more sense than how anyone has tried to interpret it. It's not $15K each...it's matching your contribution, and should be treated as that.

kimmiinthemitten

Knottie1447172022 said:

I should put something towards this event?  Uh, yes I have... plenty.  Engagement photos, save the date invitations, wedding dress... I purchased this on my own accord.  So, don't act like I haven't contributed anything.  Gladly I have, and I was more than happy to. 

In all fairness, we can only respond to what you tell us, and you told us your FI, Mother and Father are all contributing 15k each.  You didn't mention if you were covering what was above and beyond or if your monetary contributions were being included in FI's portion, so it's fair to assume that you weren't a part of the 45k.

Either way, I'm with @LondonLisa, your moms strings are now clearly laid out and you can choose to accept them or decline her money.  I would also still have FI aplogize.  Whether it was bullying or not, he has clearly made a bad impression and hurt her fellings and he needs to rectify that.  Once that is over, you go back to communicating with your parents solely on behalf of you and FI.

ETA:  Please use the "Quote" link at the bottom of a post if you are responding to someone directly, it makes the chain of conversation easier to follow and lets that poster know you are answering them.

nerdwife

LondonLisa said:

I don't understand the issue. Your mother said she would essentially match what you spend, up to 15K not including travel.

those are her terms, either accept these terms or don't accept her money. There should be no negotiations or further discussions. 

This is also why is is imperative to follow 2 key rules:
1.) you and your fi need to be on the same page BEFORE you discuss it with others

2.) everyone needs to handle their own families. 

I do think your fi has some big bollocks to try to negotiate a change in terms with your mum. That is incredibly entitled and immature. 

This. Your mom has made an extremely generous offer. I would be outraged if my FI was trying to take advantage of this offer. You said he was "standing his ground" about what he thought he should pay for. In an alternate universe where it's acceptable for your FI to be negotiating at all and directly with your mom, he should be mature enough to realize he said what he thought once, she said no, and he needed to accept that.

AddieCake

If it's a situation where contributions are being "matched," then I agree with Lisa.

Jen4948

Knottie1447172022 said:

I should put something towards this event?  Uh, yes I have... plenty.  Engagement photos, save the date invitations, wedding dress... I purchased this on my own accord.  So, don't act like I haven't contributed anything.  Gladly I have, and I was more than happy to. 

I think you misunderstood.

Regardless of what she promised to pay for, your FI's argument with her about what that $15,000 should cover has damaged their relationship and put you on the hot seat in the middle.  We're suggesting that instead of relying on your mom's contributions, we're suggesting that you and your FI step back and pay for the rest of the wedding yourselves by way of ending the conflict between your FI and your mom.  

That means reevaluating your budget without your mother's contribution and determining what you can afford, and planning your wedding accordingly. You may well have to forgo some amenities to keep your wedding within your budget.  But we think it'll be worth it in the long run if it helps things improve between your FI and your mom.

themosthappy91

Knottie1447172022 said:

Hi everyone, okay... definitely can clear up some things here.  I apologize my original post was so confusing.  I can see why it came across the way.  Anyways, my mom is contributing 15k, my dad is contributing 15k (parents are divorced, and my fiance is contributing 15k.  So,yes- we have a wedding budget of 45k.  I think it's a bit appalling some people act like I am not appreciative for my parents contributing that amount of money.  I am absolutely appreciative and couldn't feel any more blessed.  They offered to help pay, and any other costs would land on my fiance and I.  We were not even expecting them to pay, and were prepared to pay for our wedding on our own.  I absolutely agree with everyone's comments that how the money is being divided up and being spent was a poor choice.  I just don't know how to come up with a better solution to ensure everyone is on the same page. My mom wants everything to be equal so one person isn't paying more than another.  In all reality, I could care less, because at the end of the day, it is just money.  I am more concerned about everyone getting along and not have a poor relationship with each other. And of course, this has put a huge damper on everything.  My mom atually pulled me aside last night and wants me to get counseling because she feels like this is a serious red flag with my fiance and is a character flaw.  My fiance doesn't bully my mom- I wouldn't allow him to.  He was standing his ground about something he thought was right- I did tell him I didn't agree with it.  However, my mom and him couldn't meet in the middle about all of this.  She actually ended up calling him some pretty unkind names to his face.  At this point, I am so upset about the whole situation that I don't want my mom's involvement with paying for anything further.  I would rather have all the costs on us from this day forward so it doesn't create any more unnecessary drama.

I'm so glad you came back to respond!

RE: the first bolded- can you tell us more about this? What exactly has your FI done to your mom that she considers to be a red flag? Did he get really angry at her or something?

RE: the second bolded- he really shouldn't be getting into arguments with your parents when you don't even agree with him. He needs to know going forward that that isn't acceptable behavior, whether or not he thinks he's just "standing his ground."

RE: the third bolded- I think that's a good idea, it sounds like your best option is to just graciously decline her money. I would phrase it something like "Mom, I hate how much this money issue has gotten between us and I think it would be for the best if we just pay for our own wedding (plus the gift from your dad, if he's still wanting to give it). I can't stand the idea of your hard-earned money going towards something you don't support, so let's just take that out of the equation and put this behind us."

The bottom line is, it's really on you and your FI to pay for your wedding and he never should have put your mom in a position where she feels taken advantage of. Have you told him he needs to apologize?

KatWAG

Knottie1447172022 said:

I should put something towards this event?  Uh, yes I have... plenty.  Engagement photos, save the date invitations, wedding dress... I purchased this on my own accord.  So, don't act like I haven't contributed anything.  Gladly I have, and I was more than happy to. 

Well, you should. Its your wedding.

Knottie1447172022

Thanks for your input- I really agree with what you said about going to my mom and declining any further money towards our wedding.  I think that would definitely decrease the tension and arguments. 

To answer your first question- my mom was upset about the fact that he stood his ground and wasn't willing to compromise with her during that last argument they had.  Second, my mom said that he has been disrespectful to her in the past- there was an incident during Thanksgiving when my FI was on his phone and I had asked him to put it away and he didn't.  Yes, that was rude of him, I agree with my mom.  But she is blowing that situation into something that it shouldn't be.  He apologized to her the following week.  Lastly, my FI let the F bomb drop during a conversation at my mom's house, and she about flew off the handle, saying he shouldn't use that type of language in her house.  (Mind you, my mom has used several cuss words in her house and in front of us before prior to this), so it's almost like she is using that as a double standard.  No one is perfect, we have all said things we shouldn't have.  He isn't a malicious person by any means!  These three incidents according to my mom, are red flags and and my FI has huge character flaws (her exact words).  She also called him abnormal and a bully, to his face during that argument.  To add, prior to these situations, my mom loved my FI, couldn't have thought any higher of him, and thinks he is wonderful. 

Lastly, I did tell my FI that those expenses are on us, and in the end, it doesn't matter.  Whatever amount my parents want to/not want to contribute, if their decision.  To be honest, I didn't ask my FI to apologize to my mom because (if you could have witnessed this argument) it was bad.  My mom came into our house and verbally attacked my FI. 

LondonLisa

Knottie1447172022 said:

Thanks for your input- I really agree with what you said about going to my mom and declining any further money towards our wedding.  I think that would definitely decrease the tension and arguments. 

To answer your first question- my mom was upset about the fact that he stood his ground and wasn't willing to compromise with her during that last argument they had.  Second, my mom said that he has been disrespectful to her in the past- there was an incident during Thanksgiving when my FI was on his phone and I had asked him to put it away and he didn't.  Yes, that was rude of him, I agree with my mom.  But she is blowing that situation into something that it shouldn't be.  He apologized to her the following week.  Lastly, my FI let the F bomb drop during a conversation at my mom's house, and she about flew off the handle, saying he shouldn't use that type of language in her house.  (Mind you, my mom has used several cuss words in her house and in front of us before prior to this), so it's almost like she is using that as a double standard.  No one is perfect, we have all said things we shouldn't have.  He isn't a malicious person by any means!  These three incidents according to my mom, are red flags and and my FI has huge character flaws (her exact words).  She also called him abnormal and a bully, to his face during that argument.  To add, prior to these situations, my mom loved my FI, couldn't have thought any higher of him, and thinks he is wonderful. 

Lastly, I did tell my FI that those expenses are on us, and in the end, it doesn't matter.  Whatever amount my parents want to/not want to contribute, if their decision.  To be honest, I didn't ask my FI to apologize to my mom because (if you could have witnessed this argument) it was bad.  My mom came into our house and verbally attacked my FI. 

Your fi sounds like a jerk. I would be livid if my FSIL demanded money and dropped f-bombs in my house. I don't care if I swear in my house. It's MY house. I don't care if I tell you how to spend my money for your wedding. It's MY money. How dare he behave like that!

What kind of Grade-A arsehole has the audacity to "stand their ground" on how to spend  someone else's generous gift?!

It's not a matter of not accepting FURTHER money- you need to pay back what she already spent or accept all of her terms and apologise profusely.

Bottom line: you both need to apologise and grow up! 

Knottie1447172022

He's never demanded money from her, I don't get where everyone is getting that.  The only thing he was saying was that the cost of the flights (for him & I) to fly to California (which he paid for) was part of the wedding expense budget.  THAT IS ALL.  He's never demanded money, LOL.  Nor would he ever!

STARMOON44

I kinda agree with your mom? You don't stand up for yourself about feeling entitled to someone else's money. He should be apologizing. It sounds like maybe there are some red flags here that she is seeing. 

AddieCake

If Mom swears at her house, how would fiancé know he couldn't? I also am still not seeing anywhere where fiancé is demanding money from anyone. 

ETA: Maybe fiancé is owed an apology for being called "abnormal." 

nerdwife

There have been several occasions when I have wanted to argue with my FILs because, IMO, they said something condescending or annoying or just plain wrong. But I would never ever in a million years argue with them. We even had a whole issue with the guest list, and FI and I had to sit down with them to discuss essentially who we aren't inviting (we're financing the wedding ourselves), and as upset and frustrated and angry as I got over the course of that discussion, I never once became confrontational or argumentative. You know why? Because I love and respect FI too much to disrespect his parents. Period, end of story.