My boss is a douchenozzle (WWYD?)

Elle1036

I've talked to several of you about this already, so I apologize for bringing it up again, but I'm still wrestling with making a decision.  Feel free to ignore this if you've already given me your opinion.

My boss has been cheating on his timesheets.  (We're paid hourly).  It's been going on for at least a couple months now.  Possibly longer, but I've been aware of it since late July.  At least a couple times a week, he leaves early without clocking out.  Later, the computer prompts him to correct the missed punch, and he enters a time several hours later than his actual departure.  The other day, though, he actually left the office for the entire afternoon, then came back after close and clocked out.  For some reason, this feels like a more flagrant violation to me and I'm really pissed off about it. 

I'm struggling with whether to report this to his superior. On one hand, I don't want to be "that girl," but on the other hand, he is essentially stealing a substantial sum from the company.  Also, Buggle pointed out that me failing to report it when I know about it could be construed as being complicit in the violation, and I don't want that, but I'm worried that, if I do report him, he'll find out and my life will become a living hell.  So, yeah... what should I do?

Other possibly relevant info:
Yes, there's proof.
No, he doesn't know that I know he does this (at least, I don't think he knows).

audrewuh

Seriously, you're going to feel so much better if you report him. And legally you're protected and there's a chance he'll get fired and sued for doing it. There are things the company can do to protect you from backlash you may get from him. I'm assuming there is at least one other employee? I think you'll be okay. 

Elle1036

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_my-boss-is-a-douchenozzle-wwyd?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:5154ac42-5c0d-4744-bee5-cef52aef462fPost:17a99f43-a2d1-42bf-b83a-d3c8b747e30c">Re: My boss is a douchenozzle (WWYD?)</a>:
[QUOTE]Seriously, you're going to feel so much better if you report him. And legally you're protected and there's a chance he'll get fired and sued for doing it. There are things the company can do to protect you from backlash you may get from him.<strong> I'm assuming there is at least one other employee? I think you'll be okay.</strong> 
Posted by audrewuh[/QUOTE]

In the company, yes.  In this office, no.  There's just me and him.  So it'll be pretty obvious that I reported him if he's approached about it, and while we do have anti-retaliation rules in place, that doesn't mean he'll follow them.  I'm just so nervous about pulling the trigger, because once I do there's really no undoing it, you know?

Stina51286

I agree with Drew. He could and should get in huge trouble and there are laws that protect you.

lovelyheather

Is there any chance he is leaving the office for work related reasons?  I'm not sure what you job is, so that might even be an option, but I know my boss and my colleagues are often away from their desks to attend webinars and lectures and whatever.  I just wouldn't want you to report him and then find out everything is legit.  I feel like that could make you look like you are that girl.

Would HR be able to help you out if he retaliates? 

leia1979

I'd report it. Hopefully he'll get fired. That's a consistent pattern of deliberate cheating.

peekaboo2011

I agree with Aud.  Your company knows he's a flaming douchenozzle.  Chances are this could just be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and they've been waiting for it.  If he tries to retaliate, you keep a log of things that happen, and then report that ish to his supervisors as well.  And, when you report him for the flagrant timesheet violations, let them know that you've been sitting on it because you've been so concerned about retaliation.  I'm sure they won't leave you high and dry.

Elle1036

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_my-boss-is-a-douchenozzle-wwyd?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:5154ac42-5c0d-4744-bee5-cef52aef462fPost:08d235f4-30c5-4f2a-9321-eb7044d5f10a">Re: My boss is a douchenozzle (WWYD?)</a>:
[QUOTE]<strong>Is there any chance he is leaving the office for work related reasons?</strong>  I'm not sure what you job is, so that might even be an option, but I know my boss and my colleagues are often away from their desks to attend webinars and lectures and whatever.  I just wouldn't want you to report him and then find out everything is legit.  I feel like that could make you look like you are that girl. Would HR be able to help you out if he retaliates? 
Posted by lovelyheather[/QUOTE]

No.  I mean, there are work-related reasons to leave the office occasionally, but not nearly as often as he does or for as long as he does.





Ok, here's another question.  Obviously, him getting fired would be the best possible outcome here, but how likely is that?  If he ends up not getting fired but just disciplined, I'm pretty much 95% positive that my work environment is going to become very unpleasant.

leia1979

It's hard to say. Some companies are more willing to fire people. Since this is essentially stealing from the company, I would think he should get fired, but I can't say what the odds are. If I were his manager, I would absolutely fire him, because he does not have constant supervision and cannot be trusted.

Elle1036

Thanks Leia.  I always value your wise input.

I'm going to send his supervisor an email asking if I can call him this afternoon after I leave the office.  My boss lives in an apartment that's attached to our office, so the chances of him overhearing the conversation are very good if I call from work.

mandi195

can't you type a letter and slip it under his supervisors door when no one is around? That way you aren't "that employee" who got someone in trouble, but you've done your part.

*edit* just saw that it's just the two of you in the office... anonymous email through the company website to "audit" time-cards at that location???

Elle1036

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_my-boss-is-a-douchenozzle-wwyd?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:5154ac42-5c0d-4744-bee5-cef52aef462fPost:c4a217d6-f52c-4c60-978d-9ac83509aa91">Re: My boss is a douchenozzle (WWYD?)</a>:
[QUOTE]can't you type a letter and slip it under his supervisors door when no one is around? That way you aren't "that employee" who got someone in trouble, but you've done your part. *edit* just saw that it's just the two of you in the office... <strong>anonymous email through the company website to "audit" time-cards at that location???</strong>
Posted by mandi195[/QUOTE]

That's a decent idea, but I think it would still be pretty obvious that I reported it.


I just emailed our regional supervisor asking for a private conversation.  Now I feel like throwing up.  I'm compulsively checking my email waiting for a response.

leia1979

It will be okay. You are doing the right thing. Just breathe.

doubleSS07

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_my-boss-is-a-douchenozzle-wwyd?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:5154ac42-5c0d-4744-bee5-cef52aef462fPost:adeab446-31c6-4b54-8fec-151812642e89">Re: My boss is a douchenozzle (WWYD?)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: My boss is a douchenozzle (WWYD?) : No.  I mean, there are work-related reasons to leave the office occasionally, but not nearly as often as he does or for as long as he does. Ok, here's another question.  Obviously, him getting fired would be the best possible outcome here, but how likely is that?  If he ends up not getting fired but just disciplined, I'm pretty much 95% positive that my work environment is going to become very unpleasant.
Posted by Elle1036[/QUOTE]

I voted to report.

This is pretty hard to say though.  I know some companies have certain procedures that they have to follow regarding "counseling" the employee and written violations but BF is friends with a guy at his work and his wife worked there too.  She had to go get her kid at lunch from daycare and forgot to punch out and they fired her 2 days later.  No meeting, no warning, written or otherwise, she was just done. 

Is there anyone outside of your office that you could request a private meeting with that you trust?  Or maybe you could just mention to the right perosn that he's gone alot in the afternoon and do they have him running around or what?   If they really want him gone they might look in to it?  That way you don't look like a tattletale but the information is out there.   This is a sucky situation.  I'd be afraid of getting in to trouble too though since you 2 are the only ones in the office, I'm sure they'd wonder if you noticed what he was doing.

audrewuh

You're doing the right thing, Elle. Just breathe deep and stay level headed. You have significant proof and like Leia said, it's possible he'd get fired. Then they could promote you! Just what you always wanted! 

Elle1036

You know that part in HP7 where Harry makes the decision to talk to Griphook before Mr. Ollivander and instantly knows that he's done something big and irreversible?  That's how I feel right now.  I'm shaking like a leaf.

I'll be talking to boss's boss right after I leave the office, so in about an hour and a half.  I'll update again after the conversation.

Meanwhile, help me come up with how I'm going to word it so I don't just sound like I'm trying to stir up trouble?

cu97tiger

I know times are tough out there, so finding a new job isn't the most fun. But I'd rather tell a new potential employer that I stood up for what was right and was let go, rather than be complicit in bilking the company out of hundreds (thousands now?) of dollars and possibly have to suffer legal action later.

If it's not clear, I voted that you report him.

cu97tiger

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_my-boss-is-a-douchenozzle-wwyd?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:5154ac42-5c0d-4744-bee5-cef52aef462fPost:57962b7a-46ff-49cc-a159-bb26dca8077f">Re: My boss is a douchenozzle (WWYD?)</a>:
[QUOTE]You know that part in HP7 where Harry makes the decision to talk to Griphook before Mr. Ollivander and instantly knows that he's done something big and irreversible?  That's how I feel right now.  I'm shaking like a leaf. I'll be talking to boss's boss right after I leave the office, so in about an hour and a half.  I'll update again after the conversation. Meanwhile, help me come up with how I'm going to word it so I don't just sound like I'm trying to stir up trouble?
Posted by Elle1036[/QUOTE]

<div>I should have read the whole thread before responding. You are doing the right thing, Elle.</div><div>
</div><div>How's this for wording: Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me. It has come to my attention that 'douchenozzle boss' may be submitting incorrect timecards. I chalked it up to an innocent mistake, but recently I realized that it has continued. I worry that in such a small office, it will be obvious that I brought these concerns to you, but in the end, I value 'our company name' and thought bringing this issue to you was the best course of action.</div>

leia1979

If this was Facebook, I would like Tiger's post.

Elle1036

Thank you, Tiger.  I think "submitting incorrect timesheets" sounds a lot better than "cheating on his timesheets."  I'll definitely phrase it that way.

steign

Elle, as someone who works in HR I would definitely go speak with the director/manager or even just someone in HR if you aren't comfortable talking with a supervisor. Since you asked for a private conversation you could also ask if they could bring in someone in HR to sit down with you or a 3-way telephone conference. They will know laws and policies that help protect you. 

Most companies have policies implemanted that won't allow the company to retaliate or fire you for reporting something that is ethically wrong. Your company may ask for a written statement from you if they plan on terminating your boss' employment. If you don't feel comfortable about this, you can ask to stay anonymous.


You're definitely doing the right thing. I hope it goes well!

Peaseblossom55

Elle what a sucky situation.  It sounds like you did the right thing though. PP gave very good advice.

Elle1036

Thanks for the support, everyone.

Buggle (she's been giving me a pep talk via text) had the idea that we could just have our supervisor say that he called or stopped by during one of the periods when my boss was clocked in but not at work, and then it's not like I blew the whistle at all.  I like that plan.  I hope supervisordude goes for it.

fizzylemonade

Elle you're doing the right thing. People above have said you've got significant proof - if you can, have it with you so you can refer to it, or jot down days/times that you remember. It's a lot more powerful going in with "I believe douchenozzle boss submitted incorrect timesheets on September 17, 19 and 20. He actually left the office at 1pm, 3.30pm, and for 2 hours on Thursday afternoon." Maybe this would go into Tiger's speech after "I realized it has continued." I would also state that you're worried about backlash from him. Take notes as you are talking - specifically anything she says, plus keep a copy of any proof you submit to them. Calm breathing and have some water with you

fizzylemonade

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_my-boss-is-a-douchenozzle-wwyd?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special%20Topic%20Wedding%20BoardsForum:136Discussion:5154ac42-5c0d-4744-bee5-cef52aef462fPost:a9cd4ce3-025a-41ca-a34b-f510ce714435">Re: My boss is a douchenozzle (WWYD?)</a>:
[QUOTE]Thanks for the support, everyone. Buggle (she's been giving me a pep talk via text) had the idea that we could just have our supervisor say that he called or stopped by during one of the periods when my boss was clocked in but not at work, and then it's not like I blew the whistle at all.  I like that plan.  I hope supervisordude goes for it.
Posted by Elle1036[/QUOTE]

<div>They might not be able to outright lie about it - but you may be able to give them a heads up when he does it again so they can "catch him" if his supervisor is close enough to come by in that time. Or a phone call to the office maybe?</div>

Elle1036

In Response to <a href="http://forums.theknot.com/Sites/theknot/Pages/Main.aspx/special-topic-wedding-boards_not-engaged-yet_my-boss-is-a-douchenozzle-wwyd?plckFindPostKey=Cat:Special Topic Wedding BoardsForum:136Discussion:5154ac42-5c0d-4744-bee5-cef52aef462fPost:cab8fce5-7c05-4585-944c-5a95c04a3373">Re: My boss is a douchenozzle (WWYD?)</a>:
[QUOTE]In Response to Re: My boss is a douchenozzle (WWYD?) : They might not be able to outright lie about it - but you may be able to give them a heads up when he does it again so they can "catch him" if his supervisor is close enough to come by in that time. Or a phone call to the office maybe?
Posted by fizzylemonade[/QUOTE]

That's kind of what I had in mind.  Staging a phone call or visit for a future date to try to catch him.  Really, though, Buggle's suggestion just made me realize that there are other ways for our supervisor to find out, rather than just me telling, so I can still pretend to know nothing about it, if that makes sense.

ShanMarie513

First of all, what a horrible situation to be put in!!! You poor things! I hope your supervisor above your boss goes with the plan of "calling" when your boss isn't there. Depending on the state you live in, it is a fireable offense. It's falsifying documents. The company is liable if he something happens when he's on company time. If he got into a car accident or hurt somebody in his car, technically the company could be held responsible. It's listed under "theft" in state labor regs. Hope it works out!

minskat30

I'm sorry you are going through this, Elle.  I like Buggle's idea too.  Your supervisor should protect you here and will likely want to do so.  They don't want to honest lose employees like you.  I hope the conversation goes well.

Elle1036

Update:  I talked to his supervisor, and the conversation went really well.  I said pretty much exactly what Tiger suggested, and then his supervisor was like "ok, this is just you and me talking, tell me what you know" so I spoke a lot more freely after that.  Basically, I heard everything I wanted to hear on the other end of the phone line, so I'm feeling much better now.  I was told that:

-I did the right thing by reporting it
-Supervisordude will make sure the report doesn't get traced back to me
-The offense is grounds for immediate dismissal if it's proven
-If boss gets investigated/fired, it will happen quickly and cleanly

He even went so far as to tell me that he'd had his own suspicions for a while, but had been waiting for something concrete.  He even said "now I can't promise you that he'll be gone tomorrow..." which sounds like it means there's a good chance he'll be fired this week.

Thanks for the encouragement everyone.  I'm glad I did it!

Elle1036

...Aaaaannd now it's time to enjoy a relaxing evening (day off tomorrow!) and watch Dancing with the Stars, eat some Frito Pie, and drink a coke and vodka.

bethsmiles

I'm glad things worked out Elle