I don't understand him lately...

KatWAG

deb2u said:

Also might add, I made it to every single LL baseball game, HS baseball game, and 5 different travel baseball teams I got my son into...so, yes, I did go it alone for some time, just me and my 2 kids.

 
It sounds like its time to do it alone, again. It sounds like your kids are grown/ taken care of. Focus on bettering yourself. If you dont have money for rent, try finding a roommate. Can you find a women's shelter near your work?

deb2u

Well, he did go back to his atty. and is having the prenup revised.  Will see what happens.  Yes, I know he can be kinda weird about the money thing, but we had a nice long talk about that stuff and he really opened up about some stuff, about his childhood, his dad's gambling problem, and that explains some about his trust issue, then his dad abandoned the family when he was @ 9 years old.  His step dad was a good role model, not perfect, but who is, really?  I seriously think he is just paranoid about money b/c of his growing up with a bad father, his ex, who left (moved out and then took him to the cleaners...yes, it should be half in the divorce, but she took more), and his illness makes him more prone to moodiness, and the it makes him stressed out as well.  Not trying to make excuses here, but he is not ALL bad, and I can feel that in my gut.  I know he would never harm me, I do trust my gut there.  He is weird about money, but, he has paid my way and does not remind me of it over and over.  He has had a lot of patience with my struggle to find work, and I think it's a matter of just trying to understand better where each of us is coming from when it comes to money.  We are opposites, he's a saver, and I'm a spender (you can't take it with you), and that becomes a challenge.  

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I love him very much for all the other things he is, and know in my gut that he is good for me, and he loves me very much, and we are the sum of all things brought to our lives, childhood and beyond, and we have a connection that is undeniable, and real.  More than I can say for my ex, and many others I've dated.

He is not emotionally abusive, just needs to have more talks, and more understanding (as I do as well) and isn't that what a lasting marriage is all about anyway?

I do thank ALL of you for your comments, and I do Appreciate all of them, but, when you know in your gut that someone is the right one, doesn't that surmount all the other things, that maybe just need to be discussed and understood from the others point of view?  Empathy, and lots of it, especially in tough times, will hold a couple married or not together, right?

FiancB

Don't do it. This is scary. Imagine you had a friend in the same situation- what advice would you give her? Probably not to stay. Take the same advice. And do NOT make a single payment on the damn car. 

GBCK

deb2u said:*snip*

undeniable, and real.  More than I can say for my ex, and many others I've dated.

He is not emotionally abusive, just needs to have more talks, and more understanding (as I do as well) and isn't that what a lasting marriage is all about anyway?

Nope.

I"m sure you meant this as a rhetorical question, but NO, that's not what makes a lasting marriage.

Talking about something is...talking about something.
You can talk about it until the cows come home...talking without accomplishing anything isn't good for relationships, it's just it's own version of hell.

I do thank ALL of you for your comments, and I do Appreciate all of them, but, when you know in your gut that someone is the right one, doesn't that surmount all the other things, that maybe just need to be discussed and understood from the others point of view?

Again, no.
Again, you probably intended it to be rehtorical, but no, your own certinty about your decision in your gut doesn't make it a right decision.
 Empathy, and lots of it, especially in tough times, will hold a couple married or not together, right?

Again, no.

And...I'm hearing you empathizing with him.
Nothing you're saying is about him empathizing with you,

VarunaTT

deb2u said:

know in your gut that someone is the right one, doesn't that surmount all the other things, that maybe just need to be discussed and understood from the others point of view?  Empathy, and lots of it, especially in tough times, will hold a couple married or not together, right?

I just can't get past this "knowing in your gut".  Lots of divorced people thought they knew in their gut too.  That is just an incredibly naive assessment.  Look you can love someone and let it blind you or you can love someone and save yourself by walking away or you can love someone and tell them how you want to be loved, etc.  You don't want to leave, okay, what's your game plan for moving forward?  

Empathy isn't a game plan and no, it won't hold you together.  Any couples therapy?  Documents drawn up fairly for both people?  Discussions on how your monies will be handled?  Understanding the other POV doesn't mean that you are working towards the same goals yet.

mrsconn23

I really need to make up a "4 Men in the World" song/rap using the words of desparate women from this site and the Internet at large.   

mcgarci2

I would say that we can tell you until you are blue in the face to leave him, but we aren't talking.  We can type until we have carpal tunnel telling you to get out, but the fact is, you will make excuses for him all the live long day.  I, too, have seen my fair share of friends go through these relationships where they know their men love them, but they just can't stand up for themselves and see their true worth.

You deserve better.  He may love you and he may not want to lose you, but seeing as how this has been going on for over a year, probably more, things aren't changing.  You tell him where he is doing wrong and he fixes it for a while, but then he goes back to his old ways.  What does this say?  He won't commit to the change.  It may take you another year, it may take five years, but I hope one day you wake up and see how much more you are worth than these situations.  

You deserve better.

No one knows your relationship, but you.  BUT. When all the bad is laid out, can the good days really make up for it?  We aren't seeing any good in this situation.  You shouldn't have to rely on what you're feeling in your gut when you objectively look at your relationship long term.  It should just be.  If this was where you should be, these actions would never have come into question and they probably would never have happened.  Really, truly think on it.

delujm0

I'm not going go get real into this situation, because your relationship is your business.  However...

 

As a financial professional, i have to at LEAST warn you that simple understanding of each other's approach to handling money (you're a spender and he's a saver) isn't going to cut it.  There is no real way to compromise on this.  Do yourself the service of sitting down before your wedding and laying out how your money will be handled.  Maybe you say  "We will put $XX/month into this savings account as a couple"  or "our annual budget for vacations/clothes/entertainment/whatever will be $XX"  or "we each get to keep $XX from each of our paychecks as personal money, and the rest goes into joint funds about which we make joint decisions."  If you combine your money, and then you start shopping when he wants to be saving, you are going to have some serious fights coming down the line.  Even if he "understands" that you like to spend, he's probably going to be mad when you're spending more than he thinks you can afford as a couple.

deb2u

when I went through domestic abuse therapy, the key words were "Trust your gut", that is how they encouraged us to think when it came to situations that arise from our relationships....

That is what all my "gut speak" is about.

I truly believe that we teach a person how to treat us.  I was caught a little off guard when this man came into my life and "swept me off my feet", and I know that can be a red flag for a potential abuser too.  But, it's not in this case.  Because there are lots of little events, doz red roses for no reason, still opening the car door for me, and other doors when we are out together, always asking me if I need anything when he goes out to the store, keeping an eye on my car (when I had one) and filling up the tires when they got low, putting gas in my car without my knowledge, little notes he leaves me, and the list goes on.

It's like we have these hard times/fights/disagreements, but all in all, we eventually come to a comprimise, or just agree to disagree.

He is getting the prenup revised, and this time, has left it in the back seat of the car; out in plain sight.

dharmabunny

OP, you do know that it is possible for someone to be a "good person" and still have a very, very destructive relationship with them, right?

Alcoholics can have a heart of gold. Except for that time when they blackout and...well...anyone can get a little out of control with a firearm, right?

Meth addicts can treat you like a queen. And clean out your wallet and coffers when they need a fix.

Skinflints can caress you sweetly and start the car for you when it's cold. Unless you get within 50 feet of their money, then stay the fuck away (but has no qualms playing around with your money whatsoever)

I really get the sense that you take that truism of "relationships take work" way too far and it ends up like sunken cost analysis. You get swayed by a sprinkle of courtesies, invest deeply, then put up with a bunch of chickenshit that flares up over and over again with no lasting, productive resolution..chalk it up to "well, a relationship takes work"

But you do spend a sizeable amount of the day painting a rosy picture for everyone else. Maybe you'll buy it someday too.

VarunaTT

I can't believe you went to any domestic abuse therapy that told you to "trust your gut".  The whole reason women end up in, and staying in, abusive relationships is b/c what their gut/feelings/instincts/all of that touchy-feely stuff tells them gets all twisted up and out of whack with reality and normalness.  "Your gut" is what gets you into those positions, b/c IT'S EFFIN' WRONG and isn't to be trusted.  Your brain might not even be able to make the proper connections.

Why don't you trust all of our gut feelings about this? What's wrong with like 20+ women's guts that are all in agreement that something is rotten in the state of Denmark, hm?

FiancB

It seems to me that a lot of eventual abusers (emotional or otherwise) are unusually chivalrous, especially in the beginning. I may have misread but it seems you've been together for a while but not a super long time. 

My FI usually doesn't get the door for me. I can get my own damn door. He is, however, capable of having adult conversations and not once has either of us considered leaving. I'd much rather have the latter than the former. 

It is MUCH easier to do the little useless crap like opening doors and sending roses than it is to really work with a person and truly treat them with decency.

It's true relationships take work. Not this much work. And it seems you're putting in more work than he is. Imagine you had a female friend that you met about 2 years ago. Would you put up with that kind of disrespect? I doubt it. Why on Earth would you take it from a man in the name of love? 

He sounds like the kind of guy that believes that since he makes the money that he should have complete control and you should basically be a servant. You do not want to get into that kind of relationship, trust me. Getting married will only make it worse. 

nextrightthing

If he won't help you retain your own attorney to review and negotiate the prenup you would be insane to sign it and marry him.  Another possibility is to find a legal aid clinic or program in your area and see if you can get a lawyer to review it pro bono.  Most local bar assocations have active pro bono programs, and reviewing a prenup isn't hard for any family lawyer.  At least then you can be aware of the legal rights you are giving up by signing it.

I think even huge d-bag pro athletes who force their beautiful model would-be wives to disclaim all their rights before marriage give them some funds to get their own lawyer. 

 It seems like he uses money as a weapon of control.  I get trying to work through it, but no need to make a legal committment (marriage) under those circumstances. 

meganmackeigan

Only my opinion, but if this were me it would be a huge red flag. My fiance and I would never make a decision that big without consulting each other. This is not just guy stuff, this is straight up disrespectful and wrong. If it's not in your name, don't fork over a penny.

deb2u

i've been reading a lot about how to deal with men who demonstrate some emotional distance, and getting a lot out of it...

I've learned to set my boundries, and used it a couple of times on him, and I think he liked/respected it.  My problem is I can be too much of a pushover-

We have had communication problems in the past, but they are getting better, we are going thru the prenup and trying to understand why he has it this way (I am still going to have it checked by an attorney), he is worried that he wont have enough money to pay for his daughter's college, and bills, etc.  He is type 1 diabetic and he said he's had so many reactions, that he should have been dead by now.  I worry about that so much.  He also said, the prenup was only if we got divorced, and that I am in his will.  He cried when I moved out back in October, and had to go somewhere, and called out the window to me "I still love you, please don't go"  Also, that is when he apparently went to his attorney for the prenup, I can tell by the date on the attorney's cover letter.

I am going to get some counselling and bring him if he want to go, but I sure am going, hope to find one free of cost, possibly at a woman's shelter.  

He is funny about money, and his brothers even say that about him.  I guess I could say that he is good for me in that way, he is displaying frugalness; and I need that so I can become a better saver.

futureallen2015

Only you truly know your relationship, so it is time to sit down and be honest with yourself. I would make a list of pros and cons of this relationship-state the facts. See if the pros outweigh the cons. If they don't, then you have a decision to make.

You are a valuable human being that deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. I too can be a pushover and have learned to start standing up for what i believe in and standing up for myself. It feels good! My advice to you is to do the same thing with this man. Set firm boundaries and if you don't agree with one word in that pre-nup-DON'T SIGN!

I am sure he has money issues and other baggage from childhood, etc. However, you shouldn't be the one to suffer. If he TRULY loves you, he will shape up. Go to couple's counseling before deciding to get married. If he won't go, or won't participate then I say WALK AWAY. You cannot change this man, only he can change himself and he MUST realize there is a problem and have a desire to change,

emilie250

deb2u said:

I guess I'll have to save up in order to leave.  I have nowhere to go, and I'll need a downpayment on an apt.  It might take a while, in the mean time I'm gonna get some counseling, it's not like I haven't been through this b4, my exhb was a violent man, but FI is nothing like him.  He's a bit of a skinflint and gets stressed if he's not making enough money.  He is way more of a 'gentleman' as well.  He told me he would never lay a hand on me, and I believe him.  I think his first marriage ended over money, and he was not taking care of his diabetis, and was having a lot of reactions, and his ex would have to take care of him or call an ambulance.  But his dd told my dd in confidence, that they used to yell a lot about money, and him not taking care of himself.  He does take care of himself now, and goes to the gym too.  He does love me, and improves when I tell him he's screwed up.  So, it's not all bad, communication is the key thing, though b/c he clams up like no other but I can usually get him to open up if I do it in a non accusatory way.  I watched for the abusive red flags, believe me, and other than the secretiveness about money, crankyness when he's stressed (about money)--that was the shit I got along the way, and I think every husband/wife does it to each other once in a while, even when they dont mean to.  I'm not trying to make excuses, but for every action there is a reaction, and I know the fact that I left him for a month made a difference, as it would for any guy who is in love with his girl.  And the car was not my gift yesterday, he bought me a beautiful gold and diamond necklace.

Anyway, I AM going to start saving, and if this is all for naught (which I hope it's not true, I do love him, but honestly, I've been wrong b4).  Also, we haven't set a date yet, anyway.  We were planning to elope since we don't want all the 'hoopla' since we both had it already with our ex's.

And just have a party at home.  So, whatever, see what happens.

I've read through all the posts and I find that you have shown such resiliency and strength in trying to establish a good life for yourself and your kids. I have to also say, though, that nothing you wrote gave the impression that the two of you are heading in a good direction. It seems that at best he is not emotionally mature enough to be a supportive partner and at worst, he is manipulative, controlling, and potentially (emotionally) abusive. What you said in this post particularly hit me - him laying a hand on you shouldn't even be a possibility, and definitely not something he says to reassure you. [I bolded the necklace because buying a beautiful gift is classic post-"bad behaviour" "move" of manipulative or (even worse) abusive people]

I think that you need to get some counselling so that you recognize and see the significance of healthy and unhealthy relationship patterns, and so that you can decide whether you want to remain in the relationship. I know the logistics of leaving a relationship can be complicated (I've volunteered in women's shelters so I really do know), but a counsellor can help you develop an action plan. 

Your fiance may be a good person whose behaviour and actions aren't good because of his past experiences or his upbringing. Regardless of the reasons, however, the behaviours you've described are not healthy.