Confused

JennyColada

I had similar discussions with Fi. I know that he would like to have kids (although, for him, it's not a deal breaker if we don't).

I'm already 30, and I ain't getting any younger, and I do not see myself ready to have kids in the next 3 years (maybe not even 6). I do really worry that someday I'll decide that I'm ready for kids and my body will just be like "lolnope".

I've discussed this with Fi and he just kind of shrugged and said "well if it happens it happens and if it doesn't then it doesn't." I stole a line from SatC2 and asked "are you ok with it being just us for the rest of our lives" and he was very supportive in that idea if that is how it worked out.

This is definitely something that you two need to discuss, because it's the rest of your lives.

Maggie0829

Cookie Pusher said:

Maggie0829 said:

Cookie Pusher said:

My mom has always been very vocal about the fact that she never wanted to have kids. 4 full grown children later, she still regrets it. She's always said she felt she HAD to have kids for her husbands and her life was ruined. She is an angry, bitter woman who blames all the shortfalls and problems in her life on her children instead of on the poor choices she herself made. The idea of "you'll feel differently when they're YOUR children" and "you'll automatically love them because they're YOURS" isn't fair. You should have children because you want to have children, not to fulfill some societal or familial expectation.

When I wrote that in my post that is because my Mom did want kids she just hated others kids. She was giving me her perspective since I have said that I don't want kids because all kids annoy me but then I have little jolts of wanting them every now and then or at least thinking about how it would be to have one. So she was just trying to show me that it is okay to not like kids and still want your own because if you want them you will love them when you have them.

But in the case of your Mom, she didn't want to have them from the get go so her regretting her choice and blaming her children for everything is, I guess, her perspective on the whole children debate.  And I am sorry that you have such an unhappy Mother.

The stuff you bolded wasn't directed at you, it's just stuff I hear over and over and over again. It has been suggested to me more than once that I should have a baby and see how I feel about it. My response is always, what if I still don't want it? Babies don't come with return policies. I certainly don't want to end up feeling the way my mom does. I'm 33. Even as a child, I never played with babydolls. I am great with kids, but I've always known I never wanted any of my own. But the pressure everyone else puts on women to pop out some babies AND have careers AND do everything else is just too much.

Besides, if I had kids, they'd tryto make me share my Cooler Ranch Doritos! *MINEMINEMINE*

Oh ok, it was just funny because I said something similar in mine but to the bolded, someone actually suggested that?  Were they on crack because that is the dumbest suggestion I have ever heard!  And I agree, we as women really don't have to do it all to be happy.

So you mean if I have kids I am going to have to share my chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream with them?  Um, no, not happening.  They can get their own.

Cookie Pusher

Maggie0829 said:

Oh ok, it was just funny because I said something similar in mine but to the bolded, someone actually suggested that?  Were they on crack because that is the dumbest suggestion I have ever heard!  And I agree, we as women really don't have to do it all to be happy.

So you mean if I have kids I am going to have to share my chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream with them?  Um, no, not happening.  They can get their own.

I've had multiplepeople suggest it to me. I hear it at least once at every family gathering. I've heard it at every social function where at least one of the other people there has kids. It's like they want me to join their cult or something, they way they talk about it.

And no, you don't HAVE to share... but they sure are going to try to convince you to!

pinkcow13

Cookie Pusher said:

Maggie0829 said:

Oh ok, it was just funny because I said something similar in mine but to the bolded, someone actually suggested that?  Were they on crack because that is the dumbest suggestion I have ever heard!  And I agree, we as women really don't have to do it all to be happy.

So you mean if I have kids I am going to have to share my chocolate chip cookie dough ice cream with them?  Um, no, not happening.  They can get their own.

I've had multiplepeople suggest it to me. I hear it at least once at every family gathering. I've heard it at every social function where at least one of the other people there has kids. It's like they want me to join their cult or something, they way they talk about it.

And no, you don't HAVE to share... but they sure are going to try to convince you to!

It is always something. When I was in my early 20's it was all, "When are you gonna get married? You're not getting any younger." Now it's "When are you gonna have kids? You're not getting any younger!" How about let me live MY life and you live yours? Geez.

And I don't like sharing. 

emmyg65

I just want to add that it's okay to not know if you want kids, or to want them "later" when that later is more of a nebulous "not now" thing, or to be really fucking scared of the idea but also kind of into it, or to change your mind. 

Also sending hugs your way.

HisGirlFriday13

I have a friend who got married in 2009. She married the first guy she dated/slept with because, in her words, "Who else is ever going to love me and want to marry me?"

(Obviously, she has self-esteem issues).

She was a teacher. She quit her job because she hates -- HATES -- kids. She's never wanted kids, ever.

Her husband said that was OK. Then he hit 30 and suddenly wanted kids and wanted to pass on his DNA (trust me, he is no contribution to the gene pool), and 'having someone to carry on the family name!'

So she got pregnant. She told me it was in part because she felt like, if she didn't get pregnant, he'd leave her. 

Throughout her entire pregnancy, she posted on FB how miserable she was (and some of it, to be fair, she would have been miserable with even if she'd WANTED the kid -- she was morbidly obese, she had gestational diabetes, she had pre-eclampsia, she had other biological issues that were again, unrelated to whether she wanted the kid). 

She said, MORE THAN ONCE, 'Well, this whole experience was DH's idea, and I'm not wild about it, but he's the one who wanted a kid.'

She had the baby -- a little girl. Her husband, while thrilled with the baby, wanted a boy (do you see where this is going?).

He's now pressuring her to have ANOTHER baby, even though she's now a SAHM with the first kid, and seriously miserable.

She feels like her marriage is on the line -- have another kid or he leaves. And that's not a fair place for her to be in.

At the end of the day -- you have to make the best decision for you, whatever that may be. But I agree with Cookie that having a kid when you're not sure about it is a bad idea.

CMGragain

I hope you can work this out before you get married.  My mother hated babies.  She didn't like being a "mother" or a housewife in the 1950s.  She liked dancing and dating and parties.  I was the first child, and I had a miserable childhood.
My daughter was very seriously involved with a nice young man who was uncertain about having children, too.  He eventually broke off their four year relationship.  He is married to someone else now, and has no plans for kids.  My daughter was crushed, but after a long time, she found the man who was really right for her, and they are happy with their baby.
I don't know if you and your FI can work this out, or not.  Having children can be a deal breaker.  Whatever you do, I hope it is the right thing for YOU.  See your counselor.  Good luck.

JCbride2015

PPs have given great advice.  Just an anecdote from me.

It is incredibly valid that you prioritize your career over having kids, whether you want them right now or in five years or never.  I was an "oops" pregnancy while my parents were engaged.  My dad was a street hot dog vendor, and my mom was a bartender.  Neither of them had any higher education and they could barely pay their rent.  They couldn't even afford a phone line.  As a result of their situation, much of my childhood was spent on Welfare.  My mom wound up as a SAHM because they couldn't afford childcare.  When my parents split up, my mom was back at square one because she had no work experience.  Fortunately things got economically better over time (especially for my dad, who found a corporate entry-level job that eventually put him through college), but I always felt like a burden on my parents.  Not only will you feel resentful if you have kids when you aren't ready-- your kids may end up resenting you.  It's selfish and weirdly existential, but I often wish I had been born even just 3 years later.  I grew up without a lot of things, and I knew it even as a little kid.  Your kids will know that you weren't ready/ didn't want them, and it won't work out well for anyone.  So, you are absolutely right to communicate with Fi about this now before you are married.

mzbda

I can relate to this post. I never wanted kids and had an accidental pregnancy with my now ex. He wanted tons of kids and I didn't want any. I don't like kids, never have. However, I love my son more than anything in the world. I don't know that I will have another but he's great. I'm also career driven and have been able to balance being a mom and having my career. I try not to miss out on things. So my point is that things may change but communicating is super important.

MyNameIsNot

I think everyone has offered some really great advice.  It's ok if you don't want kids while you are young, or ever.  If that is how you feel, it can be scary to think that you could lose your FI.  But it's much scarier to think that you could lose yourself if you agree to have children you don't want just to keep him.

I will share an anecdote about a good friend.  She started dating her now husband in her early 20's.  She is from a community where everyone has kids because it's just what you do, so whether or not to have kids wasn't a discussion she had with her husband before marriage.  She just assumed she would feel it later later when she was ready.  Now we're in our 30's, and she's still not ready or not admitting that she never wants kids.  She's hugely devoted to her career and isn't ready to take a break, much less give it up.  Her husband desperately wants a child, so it's causing huge friction.  I don't know what they're going to do.  It sucks, but they both wish they'd figured this out 10 years ago when they were engaged.

I also have to toss out that your FI's timeline is a little ridiculous.  Having your first child at 30 or even 35 is not later in life.  I'm 34 and most of my friends are just now starting their families.  28 is on the young side in 2014.  (Except for those that didn't intentionally get pregnant).  If you're 100% sure you want kids eventually, it's totally fair to agree not to start until your early 30's.  

PrettyGirlLost

ChemFanatic25 said:

Thank you ladies. You all have been really helpful. Readings these posts is helping me piece together whether or not I even want children. At this point I really don't know though. I like to think I have tons of time to do everything, travel, buy that house I've always wanted, spend tons of time with friends and have my own alone time, and have kids. I am starting to wonder if I feel like I want kids because society has dictated that women are first and foremost mothers and that makes me nervous. How do I know what is truly my decision or the influence of society (and his family - his father asked when we'd be having kids and said he wanted four grandchildren. I was completely offended by this and it bothered me a lot.) If it's the influence of society I know I will later resent my fiancé and I know (without a doubt) our relationship will not last. @SammiNJonni, honestly I don't know how he would react. If based on current situations that are not as stressful, he gets quiet and depressed. Then we have long talks at night that leave me emotionally and physically drained. There have been times that I have had to reassure him our relationship will last even though "such and such situation" happened. On the other side he gets frustrated and snappy and that isn't fun either. BUT sometimes when he is down it's like he'll make a decision to stop being depressed and be happy and encouraging (to pull him out of his funk.) So I guess I kind of have a feeling of how he would react if we had trouble conceiving but not clearly.

I don't know if this will be helpful to you, but regardless of the pressures of society I have never ever had a desire to have a child.  Ever.  Sure when people ask me about having kids and I tell them I am not interested they look at me as if I have 3 heads and ask me "Why?"  And I just ask them, "Well why do you want to have them?"

And their answers basically boil down to the answers I would give them- no matter what they say, or I say, from my experience the desire to have kids- or not have them- is hardwired.  Either people have always wanted them at some point, or they don't.

That's just my experience though.

ChemFanatic25

So I talked to my counselor and my fiance. We had a lot to talk about. 

Counselor: I explained to her how I was feeling and that I felt that I was being pressured. She told me that we had to get on the same page about that. Yes, that I knew. The problem is we couldn't delve into it to much because we were also having other problems - we haven't been spending as much time together and that is causing him concern. He feels the only time we spend time together is when we have people over. When we are alone we do our own thing. Problem is, I have suggested certain things we could do and he doesn't like those things and he has suggested things and I don't want to do those activities. It's been a bit of a strain.

Fiance: I talked to him and he said that I need to be honest about how I felt because it wasn't fair to him because he has always wanted to have children. He has always wanted to be a father. We discussed age and I told him I didn't want to feel pressured and he understood that but explained why he didn't want to wait till 30 - he believes there is too much proof out there that there are more complications with birth and birth defects when the mother gives birth later in life. I told him I understood that but I don't want to live my life out of fear and based on statistics. 

Then he made the comment "do you even want to have children? All I hear is how you don't like kids." And I couldn't answer. I don't know if I want kids or don't want kids. I left the room because I needed to think. I so desperately wish I could look into the future and just know so that I can give him an honest answer. I believe deep down I do want children but what if that changes later, I am not the same as I was in high school, not even in college. Who will I be in 10 years? I know this isn't fair to him. I feel my counselor already gave me the answer, she didn't have to say it out loud. I don't like it. Not one bit.

I have to go or I'm going to start crying at my desk and that won't look good at work. I'll talk to you ladies later.

jdluvr06

(((Hugs)))

hikebikebemerry

Big hugs!  You are incredibly brave for looking at this now, it's not easy, but you have to make sure that you're honoring yourself.

climbingsingle

Sending you lots of good thoughts. *hugs*

HisGirlFriday13

(((((HUGS)))))

I'm so sorry. This is so hard but you're doing a great job. We're here for you if you need us.

KeptInStitches

((HUGS))

JCbride2015

Hugs!  

WinstonsGirl

I'm glad you're talking about this, even though it's hard to do.  I'm in the camp of not wanting kids, but always think what if I change my mind later??  What if it's too late and I decide we do want them.  DH is thankfully fine either way, so he's not an issue, but kids are such a huge deal and such a societal pressure that even when you're sure, there's often a bit of doubt.  I'm glad you have someone you can talk to about this, cos it's not easy

CrazyCatLady3

The PPs gave a lot of good advice, but I just wanted to share that the whole hysteria about women needing to have kids before 35 has been debunked:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/how-long-can-you-wait-to-have-a-baby/309374/

Just something to mention to your FI about not needing to rush.

FI and I are both 34 and are undecided about having kids.  If we do have them, it wouldn't be for a few more years.  So I would be late 30s.  Neither one of us is too worried about it.  It also helps that I live in NYC where SO MANY women don't have children until late 30s and into early 40s.

But it's nice to know how many other non-baby obsessed women there are from reading this thread!

ETA:  As far as life expectancy for you and FI (so you could be around for any hypothetical grandchildren), women of our generation are projected to live into our 90s/100s due to advances in medicine.  (OTOH, what if you have kids and they in turn don't want any kids!  Then he would be rushing you for nothing).

PrettyGirlLost

*hugs*

I am sorry you are both going through this, but I think it is best for you both to discuss this all now before you are married.  I wish and pray for the best for you both, and for happiness for you both no mater what the outcome is.

sofakingmad

@ChemFanatic25

I am truly sorry that you are going through this.  However, I am happy that you are discussing this openly with your fiance now, before you are married.

sofakingmad

and I want to say so much more on this subject (because it's very similar to my situation), but I don't want to come across as an angsty divorcee.  

But just know that I was/am your FI in this situation.  

APDSS22

*Internet hugs* It's definitely good that you are trying to work your way through this tricky issue with your FI before marriage, even if it's really difficult now.  Just know that I think you're very brave and whatever you decide, it will be okay.

SmileDamnit

Oh, how my heart hurts for you. I'm sorry you're hurting, but throughly commend you for tackling such a difficult (albeit HUGELY important) topic now.

PP have given good advice, and I've got nothing additional of any merit to add, but I will tell you my experience, FWIW. I'm 36 years old and until about a year ago, was quite okay to not be a mother. I actually LOVE kids, but I just didn't think having them was in my cards (very long term relationship with a guy I had zero desire to raise a child with…yes, probably should've been a clue but I digress). And then I met my FI and I can't freakin' wait to be a parent with him. I don't at all feel too old to have a child and if it's meant to be, I hope to be a mother in the near future.

I wish you peace & resolve in your decision. {{hugs}}

ChemFanatic25

DragonBlood13 said:

and I want to say so much more on this subject (because it's very similar to my situation), but I don't want to come across as an angsty divorcee.  

But just know that I was/am your FI in this situation.  

Actually anything really helps, especially if you have gone through the situation. I walked away from our counseling session with very concerning thoughts. Right now I'm traveling for work and I'm slowly gathering my thoughts. I'm starting to wonder if this is what I really want, if my indecision about wanting children might stem from something deeper, as in I'm not ready to get married or afraid that he isn't the one. I don't know. I'm still organizing my thoughts. I'm feeling less panicked right now but I think that was because I am on my own for a couple days and have been able to think about things more.

Also thank you so much everyone. I really appreciate the thoughts. I'm afraid to talk to my close friends about this because this is such a touchy subject so I really appreciate the support.

climbingsingle

Unfortunately I have a lot of advice on this topic too. I married the wrong guy 10 years ago when I was 24. I knew in my heart that he wasn't the one. But I was too afraid to call off the wedding. Trust me on this - it's a million times easier to call off a wedding than it is to get a divorce. 

If you ever want to chat or need someone to talk to, I'm here.