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Not sure what to think about this... Vent? (long)

I think I just need to get this out of my system, which is why I'm putting it in this forum rather than a more serious one, like the etiquette forum.

This concerns my best friend. We've been friends for 12 years, through high school, college, and beyond. She is 1.5 years older than me and while we've had our ups and downs, we've remained close this long through countless strains, distance, etc. I love her more than I can really express, but this... I don't know how to feel.

Just as a warning: I'm going to write a lot. I'm not known for being succinct. Many details won't be strictly relevant, but I feel like I need to explain. If you don't want all the details, you can skip the stuff in blue.

She was married on January 15th of this year (2014), a Wednesday, in a JOP ceremony. The 15th date was important to her for some reason. Only her husband, mother, sister, and my fiance and I were invited there. They decided to get married in December and told me on the 21st of December that they were doing so. They had only been dating for 3-4 months, but have known each other for about as long as I've known her. Their families even split a house when they were younger, so they've been close friends. She expressed to me that she knew he was it and she didn't want to wait anymore, since she had been saving herself for marriage. My fiance asked me to marry him on Christmas Eve. She was relieved because she didn't want to put pressure on him to marry me because my best friend was getting married. I don't think either of us would have been influenced by that, but whatever...

The whole planning process for her was very disorganized. She wanted so many things that she didn't end up getting, including grocery store flowers and a small grocery store cake. Plans were constantly changed or canceled. She set the date and I took a half day off work, after making sure with her that it would be more than enough time to attend and enjoy her afternoon ceremony. She assured me that a half day would be plenty of time. I had an important meeting with the CEO (flew in from another state) that morning that I couldn't likely get out of, so it worked out well. My fiance took a half day also. Five days before the wedding, they realized that they did all this and didn't get anyone to officiate. It looked like the only one available could do 11 AM, which was (at this point) practically impossible for me to do. Luckily, they were able to get someone else for 2:30. Late on the evening of Monday, the 13th, I finally got an address to the courthouse (there are many in this big city). Throughout the planning process, I offered my listening ear to her while she vented about how irritating and incompetent her future husband was being. Everything that went wrong seemed to be his fault and she was not exactly happy, but I held my tongue and just listened. Her dog ate her shoes the morning of (because her husband couldn't watch the puppy properly) and I snuck out of work early to go to Payless to buy three pairs of shoes that I thought might work with her blue/white floral dress. For the ceremony, she chose the ones she liked, wore them with the tags still on (slipped it under her foot), and gave them back to me to return with the others afterwards. The ceremony was nice and I took pictures with my (poor) point-and-shoot camera. Afterwards, we went to one of her favorite restaurants which is very touristy and overpriced for what it is, but she loves it, so whatever. Everyone paid for their own meals. The bride and groom had so many unfortunate events leading up to the wedding (car accident, car breakdowns, work injuries, suspension at work, moving, etc) that they wouldn't have been able to buy their own lunch/dinner if one of his coworkers hadn't given him $60. In fact, I had to pay over half of their apartment deposit when they moved because they couldn't swing it in between pay periods. I didn't miss the money because they paid me back before it was actually taken out, but I think I was more than generous to be willing to put several hundred dollars on the line for them. Only for my best friend. Only for her. I got a receipt, which saved them when the apartment tried to claim they hadn't paid it (when they actually just forgot about my check). As my wedding gift to her, I took her shopping for lingere to wear on her wedding night. She was just going to buy a new bra to wear with panties she already got so as not to ask too much of me, but I insisted that she try ANYTHING she wanted. She ended up choosing a white lace corset set, which I bought for her. Additionally, after the wedding, I put together an album of their wedding and lunch, which I ordered from Shutterfly, and sent her all the photos I had taken that day. After they asked to borrow a pot from us (we live at the same apartment complex now) because they didn't have anything in which to cook the canned foods they bought (she bought a cheap can opener when we went lingere shopping and struggled with paying the $3 for it), my fiance took it upon himself to buy them a 10-piece pot and pan set for them. They did not have a registry and they did not ask for anything, other than for us to be there and pay for our own lunch. We offered all of the other things freely and on our own. I consider doing these things as a gift to her, to help her in her new married life. They've been in one bad situation after another and I was happy to help them get on their feet. I love her and I want her to be happy, even though I don't necessarily agree with everything she's done.

Deep down, I think she only got married so quickly because she wanted to sleep with him without feeling guilty or compromising her beliefs. I would NEVER say this to her face. It wouldn't be productive and it doesn't really affect me. She's happy and it's her life, so I'm happy for her. She still wants a big ceremony though, which she feels like she cheated her friends and family out of (most are from out of state as they're both not originally from Texas, even though they've lived here for 10+ years). She wanted her ceremony to be on November 15th (also a weekday) and when she realized I was planning mine for November 8th, she backed down from it and announced that they will be having a "vow renewal" ceremony in 2015 instead. At the time, it sounded like she wasn't going with the date she originally planned because of many things including money and wanting to visit sick relatives, but also (and I got the hint, most importantly) because of me. It felt like she was blaming my date for having to postpone her vow renewal. The whole thing sounds like a PPD to me, and I think that's what she wants. At least she's not calling it her "real wedding" and she's owning the fact that she got married on January 15th at the courthouse.  She's asked me to be her maid/matron of honor and stand with her along with her sister (also a maid of honor?) at her vow renewal. I know all the strong feelings that people of TK have toward PPDs and I don't disagree. It feels a bit contrived to me too. Still, because it's her, I accepted. Hopefully, I'll have more advanced warning about what I'm getting myself into for this next event. I want to add, though it's fairly irrelevant, that she would have been my MOH if we were having a wedding party. For many reasons, we decided against it, so she will not be standing with me on my day.

Now (and the real reason why I'm writing this), she's asked for advice on facebook about whether or not she should start a wedding registry for her and her husband. Girls at work have been pressuring her about it and she asked if it would be a good idea to do one for people who would still like to contribute to her and her husband. I can deal with the disorganization of their JOP ceremony and having to jump through hoops to get out of work the way I did, and having to pay for my own lunch to be able to celebrate with them. It's her special day. I was honored to be there. I was even happy to go through all those things because I knew it was worth it to see her happy, no matter how irritated I might have felt in the moment. But, now it feels like they're asking for donations for something that's already done. I understand that people want to contribute, especially since she hasn't exactly kept their situations out of social media. People probably feel compelled to help, just like we did with the pot situation. Since she's asking for advice, part of me wants to be a "good friend" and give it to her, but so far, I've just kept my mouth shut. I want to tell her that it feels weird to ask for stuff in a wedding registry for a "fake" date that's more than a year out and a wedding that's already happened. I also want to tell her that if she puts pots and pans on that registry list, that I would feel very hurt and angry. We could have let her borrow one of ours, but my fiance wanted to go further than that and spent his own money on that gift for them, to make sure that they could eat decently on their first days together as husband and wife.

I know I probably won't say anything. I wouldn't even consider saying anything if she hadn't asked (indirectly). Most everyone else is saying "sure', "good idea", or "why not?". I would definitely be the odd person out and sometimes her friends can be ruthless (so can she), even though I've outlasted them all.

I don't really know what I'm looking for. It's not really a problem that needs to be solved. I just am unsure how to really think or act or respond.

Wedding Countdown Ticker

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"They say there's no such place... as Paradise. Even if you search to the ends of the Earth, there's nothing there. No matter how far you walk, it's always the same road. It just goes on and on. But, in spite of that... Why am I so driven to find it? A voice calls to me... It says, 'Search for Paradise.' " - Kiba, Wolf's Rain

Re: Not sure what to think about this... Vent? (long)

  • My main question is if she can hardly afford a $3 can opener then how the hell are they affording this big PPD?

    I really don't know what to tell you to do.  I don't think her making a wedding registry for something that isn't even a wedding is a good idea.  You are right, it does come off as gift grabby.  People can still contribute to them without a registry just like you and your FI did for their true wedding.

  • lkristenj said:

    I think I just need to get this out of my system, which is why I'm putting it in this forum rather than a more serious one, like the etiquette forum.

    This concerns my best friend. We've been friends for 12 years, through high school, college, and beyond. She is 1.5 years older than me and while we've had our ups and downs, we've remained close this long through countless strains, distance, etc. I love her more than I can really express, but this... I don't know how to feel.

    Just as a warning: I'm going to write a lot. I'm not known for being succinct. Many details won't be strictly relevant, but I feel like I need to explain. If you don't want all the details, you can skip the stuff in blue.

    She was married on January 15th of this year (2014), a Wednesday, in a JOP ceremony. The 15th date was important to her for some reason. Only her husband, mother, sister, and my fiance and I were invited there. They decided to get married in December and told me on the 21st of December that they were doing so. They had only been dating for 3-4 months, but have known each other for about as long as I've known her. Their families even split a house when they were younger, so they've been close friends. She expressed to me that she knew he was it and she didn't want to wait anymore, since she had been saving herself for marriage. My fiance asked me to marry him on Christmas Eve. She was relieved because she didn't want to put pressure on him to marry me because my best friend was getting married. I don't think either of us would have been influenced by that, but whatever...

    The whole planning process for her was very disorganized. She wanted so many things that she didn't end up getting, including grocery store flowers and a small grocery store cake. Plans were constantly changed or canceled. She set the date and I took a half day off work, after making sure with her that it would be more than enough time to attend and enjoy her afternoon ceremony. She assured me that a half day would be plenty of time. I had an important meeting with the CEO (flew in from another state) that morning that I couldn't likely get out of, so it worked out well. My fiance took a half day also. Five days before the wedding, they realized that they did all this and didn't get anyone to officiate. It looked like the only one available could do 11 AM, which was (at this point) practically impossible for me to do. Luckily, they were able to get someone else for 2:30. Late on the evening of Monday, the 13th, I finally got an address to the courthouse (there are many in this big city). Throughout the planning process, I offered my listening ear to her while she vented about how irritating and incompetent her future husband was being. Everything that went wrong seemed to be his fault and she was not exactly happy, but I held my tongue and just listened. Her dog ate her shoes the morning of (because her husband couldn't watch the puppy properly) and I snuck out of work early to go to Payless to buy three pairs of shoes that I thought might work with her blue/white floral dress. For the ceremony, she chose the ones she liked, wore them with the tags still on (slipped it under her foot), and gave them back to me to return with the others afterwards. The ceremony was nice and I took pictures with my (poor) point-and-shoot camera. Afterwards, we went to one of her favorite restaurants which is very touristy and overpriced for what it is, but she loves it, so whatever. Everyone paid for their own meals. The bride and groom had so many unfortunate events leading up to the wedding (car accident, car breakdowns, work injuries, suspension at work, moving, etc) that they wouldn't have been able to buy their own lunch/dinner if one of his coworkers hadn't given him $60. In fact, I had to pay over half of their apartment deposit when they moved because they couldn't swing it in between pay periods. I didn't miss the money because they paid me back before it was actually taken out, but I think I was more than generous to be willing to put several hundred dollars on the line for them. Only for my best friend. Only for her. I got a receipt, which saved them when the apartment tried to claim they hadn't paid it (when they actually just forgot about my check). As my wedding gift to her, I took her shopping for lingere to wear on her wedding night. She was just going to buy a new bra to wear with panties she already got so as not to ask too much of me, but I insisted that she try ANYTHING she wanted. She ended up choosing a white lace corset set, which I bought for her. Additionally, after the wedding, I put together an album of their wedding and lunch, which I ordered from Shutterfly, and sent her all the photos I had taken that day. After they asked to borrow a pot from us (we live at the same apartment complex now) because they didn't have anything in which to cook the canned foods they bought (she bought a cheap can opener when we went lingere shopping and struggled with paying the $3 for it), my fiance took it upon himself to buy them a 10-piece pot and pan set for them. They did not have a registry and they did not ask for anything, other than for us to be there and pay for our own lunch. We offered all of the other things freely and on our own. I consider doing these things as a gift to her, to help her in her new married life. They've been in one bad situation after another and I was happy to help them get on their feet. I love her and I want her to be happy, even though I don't necessarily agree with everything she's done.

    Deep down, I think she only got married so quickly because she wanted to sleep with him without feeling guilty or compromising her beliefs. I would NEVER say this to her face. It wouldn't be productive and it doesn't really affect me. She's happy and it's her life, so I'm happy for her. She still wants a big ceremony though, which she feels like she cheated her friends and family out of (most are from out of state as they're both not originally from Texas, even though they've lived here for 10+ years). She wanted her ceremony to be on November 15th (also a weekday) and when she realized I was planning mine for November 8th, she backed down from it and announced that they will be having a "vow renewal" ceremony in 2015 instead. At the time, it sounded like she wasn't going with the date she originally planned because of many things including money and wanting to visit sick relatives, but also (and I got the hint, most importantly) because of me. It felt like she was blaming my date for having to postpone her vow renewal. The whole thing sounds like a PPD to me, and I think that's what she wants. At least she's not calling it her "real wedding" and she's owning the fact that she got married on January 15th at the courthouse.  She's asked me to be her maid/matron of honor and stand with her along with her sister (also a maid of honor?) at her vow renewal. I know all the strong feelings that people of TK have toward PPDs and I don't disagree. It feels a bit contrived to me too. Still, because it's her, I accepted. Hopefully, I'll have more advanced warning about what I'm getting myself into for this next event. I want to add, though it's fairly irrelevant, that she would have been my MOH if we were having a wedding party. For many reasons, we decided against it, so she will not be standing with me on my day.

    Now (and the real reason why I'm writing this), she's asked for advice on facebook about whether or not she should start a wedding registry for her and her husband. Girls at work have been pressuring her about it and she asked if it would be a good idea to do one for people who would still like to contribute to her and her husband. I can deal with the disorganization of their JOP ceremony and having to jump through hoops to get out of work the way I did, and having to pay for my own lunch to be able to celebrate with them. It's her special day. I was honored to be there. I was even happy to go through all those things because I knew it was worth it to see her happy, no matter how irritated I might have felt in the moment. But, now it feels like they're asking for donations for something that's already done. I understand that people want to contribute, especially since she hasn't exactly kept their situations out of social media. People probably feel compelled to help, just like we did with the pot situation. Since she's asking for advice, part of me wants to be a "good friend" and give it to her, but so far, I've just kept my mouth shut. I want to tell her that it feels weird to ask for stuff in a wedding registry for a "fake" date that's more than a year out and a wedding that's already happened. I also want to tell her that if she puts pots and pans on that registry list, that I would feel very hurt and angry. We could have let her borrow one of ours, but my fiance wanted to go further than that and spent his own money on that gift for them, to make sure that they could eat decently on their first days together as husband and wife.

    I know I probably won't say anything. I wouldn't even consider saying anything if she hadn't asked (indirectly). Most everyone else is saying "sure', "good idea", or "why not?". I would definitely be the odd person out and sometimes her friends can be ruthless (so can she), even though I've outlasted them all.

    I don't really know what I'm looking for. It's not really a problem that needs to be solved. I just am unsure how to really think or act or respond.

    That was crazy long, but I got through the whole thing.  They are adults and this is the path they have chosen.  So regardless of their reasons don't concern yourself with why they decided to get married so quick.  Also, many of their "problems" seem to be caused by themselves., ie the job suspension. 

    As for your real question, tell her that you have found a great resource for wedding planning and its the Community boards at TK.  Tell her that she should feel free to ask any question she may have because the ladies here give honest feedback.  Also, there is agreat website called idotaketwo.com that tells you how to host a proper vow renewal. 

    And for future reference, stick with all black font.  Blue is hard on the eyes.  If you need to make a long post, give us a CN (Cliff Notes' version of your entire post).

  • So she rushed into marriage, in part because she has religious convictions that disallow pre-marital sex, she's struggling to buy a $3 can opener, she wants a PPD, but had to push it because you're getting married, and now she wants to register?

    I think, if you're close to her, you need to sit her down and have an honest-to-Jesus talk with her about what she's doing, the decisions she's made, and what she's facing going forward.

    There are all kinds of red flags in this story.
    Anniversary

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    I'm gonna go with 'not my circus, not my monkeys.'
  • She's married, and is having a PPD day/wanting to register for gifts? Is that what I got from all that?

    Yes, you are correct. I know it could have been much shorter. I've always been verbose.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker

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    "They say there's no such place... as Paradise. Even if you search to the ends of the Earth, there's nothing there. No matter how far you walk, it's always the same road. It just goes on and on. But, in spite of that... Why am I so driven to find it? A voice calls to me... It says, 'Search for Paradise.' " - Kiba, Wolf's Rain

  • My main question is if she can hardly afford a $3 can opener then how the hell are they affording this big PPD?
    I don't know, exactly. They aren't normally this bad off, though. It really is just a bad set of circumstances that all happened at once right before their wedding. She is cutting back her hours to part time, though he is being groomed for a management position (and his retirement-aged manager knows it and is trying to get him fired before he gets replaced, hence the suspension). Neither of them make a lot of money, but they both work hard and have always been able to scrape by. I assume that they'll save it over time and pay for it themselves. No one in their families really has money to spare.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker

    image

    "They say there's no such place... as Paradise. Even if you search to the ends of the Earth, there's nothing there. No matter how far you walk, it's always the same road. It just goes on and on. But, in spite of that... Why am I so driven to find it? A voice calls to me... It says, 'Search for Paradise.' " - Kiba, Wolf's Rain

  • If she posted on Facebook asking if she should register, I would have said "No, people usually register for weddings, not vow renewals" or something like that.
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  • I think you are way over involved in her life, honestly. It sounds like you have been a great friend, but in that whole long list it sounds like your main complaint is actually "if they put pots and pans on the registry your feelings will be hurt." Is it tacky to make a registry when they are already married? Yes. But as long as she is not putting it on invites, websites, etc, the only people that will find it are people that are specifically looking for it. You can't keep her from ever getting pots again just because you bought her a set. Is it tacky to redo the elements of the wedding when she is already married? Yes. But those things shouldn't hurt you like it seems like they are.

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  • It took me a long time (and some friends) to learn this lesson and thought maybe you could benefit from it- people don't want friends that treat them like their parents treat them. 
    I had a really bad habit of being my father whenever a friend said anything about college I would spout off which majors were good and which lead to crap jobs. When they told me they were considering buying such and such house I would say I follow the market and that is overpriced. When they talked about buying health shakes I would tell them it's a marketing fad and waste of money and to just buy fruit and veggies. 

    It probably sounds like I'm a nagging bitch but I genuinely thought I was helping my friends, and that I had to be brutally honest about everything to be a good friend and help them make informed decisions. This backfired in my face many times, I had friends tell me "why do you have to rain on my parade, just smile and say cool and let me do my thing". So it finally clicked with me that that's what people want out of friends, they don't want the advice their parents give, they just want support in what they're doing. 
    So that's my advice to you...you've been a great friend to her so now just move on, be her friend and keep your mouth shut about why she married him, why she's so poor, why she wants a vow renewal, why she wants to register, etc. 

                                                                     

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  • At the very least, I'd let your friend know that if she does register, doing so too far in advance will lead to things being clearanced out, especially if anything's seasonal.  Of course registering when you're already married for your "vow renewal" is tacky but she's probably going to do it anyway.  At least that will keep her from registering now and having everything wiped off the list before people look at it if they want to buy her something.  If you think she'd take the advice I'd tell her to either check out the forums here, idotaketwo, etc but that doesn't sound like it would be taken well.
  • I would mention to her that registries are more for weddings then vow renewals. From your post, it sounded like co-workers of hers are pressuring her to do a registry. Let her know it's fine not too.

    Also, while she's doing a PPD, due to her religious beliefs, it doesn't seem like she's lying to anyone about it. So it seems like a not smart financial decision, but hey, she's being honest about it.

    I'd try to let the pot thing go. I get that you've done a lot for her, but if someone offers to buy them another set, you can't hold that against her.
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    Anniversary
  • Thank you, ladies. I appreciate the advice.

    I really just wanted to get it out of my system. Part of me regrets posting at all, but what's done is done.

    Wedding Countdown Ticker

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    "They say there's no such place... as Paradise. Even if you search to the ends of the Earth, there's nothing there. No matter how far you walk, it's always the same road. It just goes on and on. But, in spite of that... Why am I so driven to find it? A voice calls to me... It says, 'Search for Paradise.' " - Kiba, Wolf's Rain

  • lkristenj said:
    My main question is if she can hardly afford a $3 can opener then how the hell are they affording this big PPD?
    I don't know, exactly. They aren't normally this bad off, though. It really is just a bad set of circumstances that all happened at once right before their wedding. She is cutting back her hours to part time, though he is being groomed for a management position (and his retirement-aged manager knows it and is trying to get him fired before he gets replaced, hence the suspension). Neither of them make a lot of money, but they both work hard and have always been able to scrape by. I assume that they'll save it over time and pay for it themselves. No one in their families really has money to spare.
    Here's the thing.  Everyone has something that puts them in a money jam now and then.  Maybe it's a lay off, maybe it's an illness, maybe it's a natural disaster, whatever.  Sooner or later, pretty much everyone is going to have to deal with bad circumstances that cause financial hardship.  

    That's why adults save money, so that even during a lay off, you can come up with $3 to buy a can opener and eat your canned goods.  You don't blow all your savings on a wedding, or on a wedding reenactment.  

    She's put her financial situation out there.  As a good friend, you are well within your rights to step in and make a statement about how her priorities are out of whack and about how she should be saving up toward a realistic emergency fund long before thinking about an unnecessary party.   
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