Can I invite a child without her mother?

thelastdreamer

Invitation question: I'm inviting all my co-workers and their spouses in my small office. I have become really close to one co-worker's granddaughter. She is 13 and part of a youth group that I help out with. The granddaughter and her mother live with my co-worker and her husband. I have never met the granddaughter's mother - from what my co-worker said, she lives at their home but granddaughter is basically raised by them. My question is, I am inviting coworker and her husband, can I also invite the granddaughter but not invite her mother? I literally have never laid eyes on her mother and think it would be quite odd to do so, but I don't want to breach etiquette by inviting her child and not her.

Thoughts?

Ven&Radio

I'm not 100% certain, but my gut is telling me no.  If the mother was out of the picture or had given up her parental rights, I'd think it would be fine to invite the grandparents and granddaughter.  However, since the mom is around and lives with her daughter, I suspect it would be a faux pas to invite the grandparents and granddaughter without the granddaughter's mom.

Maggie0829

I am going to say the opposite of PP and say that what you are planning is okay.  You have a relationship with the kid and her grandparents, not her Mother.

blabla89

I think it's fine if she could come with her grandparents. It's not like you're asking her mother to drop her off at the wedding and then leave.

princessleia22

I'd say that it is okay, since you are inviting adults that can bring the granddaughter.  I'm sure that the mother would understand since she's never met you.

MGP

Maggie0829 said:

I am going to say the opposite of PP and say that what you are planning is okay.  You have a relationship with the kid and her grandparents, not her Mother.

It's a tough call and not sure if there is a right, wrong, or etiquette approved answer.

As a mother if I was put in this situation I would be slightly offended.  I almost look at a parent as a child's SO in a social situation such as a wedding.  Families are considered social units and in this case the couple DOES want the child to attend.  We advise that you cannot split a couple just because you haven't met someone's other half.  This isn't much different.

It just seems odd to me to not invite the parent of a 13 year old, even at that age you are not doing much "babysitting" such as keeping them quiet during the ceremony and feeding them.  In the OP's position I would invite them all and figure the mother would be OK with the girl going with her grandparents.  However don't be surprised if she does accept the invite either.

Jen4948

Kind of hard to say.  I'd say it depends on the relationship you have with the kid, her parents, and her grandparents.

Me, if trusted adults are being invited to supervise her during the wedding, such as her grandparents, I'd be fine with the kid and her grandparents but not her mother.  But that's me.  It might be safer to just invite the mother too.

FiancB

I think it's fine since her grandparents will be there, but I wouldn't be too surprised if mom invites herself. 

MGP

Jen4948 said:

Kind of hard to say.  I'd say it depends on the relationship you have with the kid, her parents, and her grandparents.

Me, if trusted adults are being invited to supervise her during the wedding, such as her grandparents, I'd be fine with the kid and her grandparents but not her mother.  But that's me.  It might be safer to juts invite the mother too.

From what the OP described it sounds like the grandparents are the primary caregivers and have the relationship with the couple.  In that case the mother may not be interested in attending and/or think it was odd that she WAS invited.  Seriously how many of you would want to go to your parent's coworker's wedding who you have never met?

It's probably better to err on the side of inviting the mother and she declines knowing that her daughter will be with her grandparents, who she obviously trusts.  Bottom line is it should be up to the mother, not the OP to make the decision for her daughter to come with just her grandparents.  Worst case scenario if the mother comes you have one extra guest and one extra adult to watch the kid, who is probably well behaved to begin with if the OP wants to invite her in the first place.

Personally I would be fine with my daughter going to a wedding with her grandparents.  However as the parent I feel that ball should be in my court, so to speak.  Not the hosts, who I had never met.

Teddy917

Little story that I think would illustrate my perspective: My grandmother pretty much raises this one aunts family. So in most cases Cousin E going to a wedding with grandma is fine. But Aunt S should still make the call. She can tell E that she can't go but I think it would be better if S were invited as E is legally her daughter and not grandma's.

jdluvr06

I think that since you're inviting her grandparents that you should be fine not inviting the girl's mother.

lyndausvi

I understand that grandparents might be the primary caregiver in your eyes, but family dynamics are not always visible.  It sounds like mom is around, she might get offended that the daughter is invited as a child of the grandparents.  Sometimes people like the grandparents need to tread lightly and not overstep the their bounds so-to-speak.

I would err on the side of caution and invite the mom.  Hopefully she will decline herself and send the daughter with the grandparents. 

bethsmiles

I'd probably invite the mom because like @lyndausvi said family dynamics are not always visible. I think inviting her is the best way to avoid any awkwardness, hurt feelings, or drama.

Based on you post my guess is the mom would decline the invite and send her daughter with the grandparents but even if she did decide to come you wouldn't really notice her anyway.

edandy

I think it's fine to leave the mother out. I would prepare an extra seat for her just in case she shows up. Don't worry too much about hurting the feelings of someone you never met.

lyndausvi

edandy said:

I think it's fine to leave the mother out. I would prepare an extra seat for her just in case she shows up. Don't worry too much about hurting the feelings of someone you never met.

I wouldn't be worried about hurting the feelings of someone I've never met, but I would be worried about causing conflict for someone i love or care about.

thelastdreamer

Obviously this is such a unique situation there is no clear right or wrong answer. I would ask the grandparents what they think since you are close to them

STUCK IN THE BOX: I thought about this, but I'm not really sure how to broach that without coming across as "Do I HAVE to invite your daughter?" But if I did ask my coworker, I'm pretty sure she'd tell me not to invite her daughter. She often complains about how irresponsible her daughter is, how her daughter pushes the responsibilities of being a parent onto them, how she mooches, etc.

PPs: The reason why I'm a bit reluctant to add her to the guest list is because we're having a pretty small wedding (80 people), and it really is just family and close friends. I'm only inviting my co-workers because I work in a very small office (only three other employees) and we all know each other really well. I just feel weird that I've cut some pretty good friends but then would invite someone I've never met who isn't a SO. 

s-aries8990

I would just invite the mother anyway - I think if it's that important that the granddaughter be there, making room for her mother would just be the safest way to play this game.

Can you invite Co-worker & Spouse and Family and speak to the co-worker?

thelastdreamer

Oh, also - Mother has a boyfriend. So if I invite Mother, I now have to invite her boyfriend too, who coworker can't stand. 

MuppetOverlord

Maggie0829 said:

I am going to say the opposite of PP and say that what you are planning is okay.  You have a relationship with the kid and her grandparents, not her Mother.

this

Mitch617

thelastdreamer said:

Obviously this is such a unique situation there is no clear right or wrong answer. I would ask the grandparents what they think since you are close to them

STUCK IN THE BOX: I thought about this, but I'm not really sure how to broach that without coming across as "Do I HAVE to invite your daughter?" But if I did ask my coworker, I'm pretty sure she'd tell me not to invite her daughter. She often complains about how irresponsible her daughter is, how her daughter pushes the responsibilities of being a parent onto them, how she mooches, etc.

PPs: The reason why I'm a bit reluctant to add her to the guest list is because we're having a pretty small wedding (80 people), and it really is just family and close friends. I'm only inviting my co-workers because I work in a very small office (only three other employees) and we all know each other really well. I just feel weird that I've cut some pretty good friends but then would invite someone I've never met who isn't a SO. 

I know you said you are close to the granddaughter, but is it that important that you invite her to such a small wedding when you have already cut close friends? Will there be other kids there? If it means you have to invite the mother and bf (which I'm not sure if it does or not), maybe it's best to just have those 3 coworkers, and then add one of your close friends back onto your list instead of the granddaughter.

HaileyDancingbear

I think it's ok to invite the 13 year old with her grandparents.  They're the people you know, and I don't think the mother would be all that reasonable to expect an invite to a wedding for someone she has never even met. 

Since it seems you're close to her, I would consider treating her like an adult by sending her her own invite, then sending the grandparents their own invite.  My reasoning for this is that the only thing I could see as a bit of an offense to the mother would be for the granddaughter and grandparents listed on the same invite- it could look like you consider the grandparents the "Real" parents.  If they get separate invites, though, then it just comes across the way you intend- you want the 13 year old at your wedding because of the youth group, and you want the grandparents there because they're co-workers.  Of course, this is a very small detail and I wouldn't consider it something you have to do, but something you could do if you want to be extra careful.   I also think the 13 year old would appreciate her own invite, kids that age like to feel grown-up.  Again, not mandatory, just a nice little touch.  

Jen4948

MGP said:

Jen4948 said:

Kind of hard to say.  I'd say it depends on the relationship you have with the kid, her parents, and her grandparents.

Me, if trusted adults are being invited to supervise her during the wedding, such as her grandparents, I'd be fine with the kid and her grandparents but not her mother.  But that's me.  It might be safer to juts invite the mother too.

From what the OP described it sounds like the grandparents are the primary caregivers and have the relationship with the couple.  In that case the mother may not be interested in attending and/or think it was odd that she WAS invited.  Seriously how many of you would want to go to your parent's coworker's wedding who you have never met?

It's probably better to err on the side of inviting the mother and she declines knowing that her daughter will be with her grandparents, who she obviously trusts.  Bottom line is it should be up to the mother, not the OP to make the decision for her daughter to come with just her grandparents.  Worst case scenario if the mother comes you have one extra guest and one extra adult to watch the kid, who is probably well behaved to begin with if the OP wants to invite her in the first place.

Personally I would be fine with my daughter going to a wedding with her grandparents.  However as the parent I feel that ball should be in my court, so to speak.  Not the hosts, who I had never met.

If the grandparents are their granddaughter's primary caregivers, then it can't be up to the mother whether or not her daughter attends without her, can it?

It looks like we agree about the rest of your post.

SP29

It's a bit tricky...

In one respect, you are inviting the granddaughter as a single guest, in which case I agree that she should be given her own invitation, not included on her grandparents', as that makes it look like she is their child, and being invited as their child, opposed to being invited as your "friend".

However, I also agree that the child's mother makes up her social unit. In which case, I think it is the same as inviting SOs that you haven't met- you still invite them regardless because they are a social unit. 

Also from this story, it seems in day to day life the grandparents act as the primary caregivers, but legally they are not, the mother is, thus it is still her decision to respond on behalf of the child. 

I think I would send an invite to your co-workers (the child's grandparents). Then send an invite to the child and her mother. She is still the child's legal guardian and her social unit. Then you can hope she declines and lets her daughter go with her grandparents. 

thelastdreamer

Mitch617 said:

thelastdreamer said:

Obviously this is such a unique situation there is no clear right or wrong answer. I would ask the grandparents what they think since you are close to them

STUCK IN THE BOX: I thought about this, but I'm not really sure how to broach that without coming across as "Do I HAVE to invite your daughter?" But if I did ask my coworker, I'm pretty sure she'd tell me not to invite her daughter. She often complains about how irresponsible her daughter is, how her daughter pushes the responsibilities of being a parent onto them, how she mooches, etc.

PPs: The reason why I'm a bit reluctant to add her to the guest list is because we're having a pretty small wedding (80 people), and it really is just family and close friends. I'm only inviting my co-workers because I work in a very small office (only three other employees) and we all know each other really well. I just feel weird that I've cut some pretty good friends but then would invite someone I've never met who isn't a SO. 

I know you said you are close to the granddaughter, but is it that important that you invite her to such a small wedding when you have already cut close friends? Will there be other kids there? If it means you have to invite the mother and bf (which I'm not sure if it does or not), maybe it's best to just have those 3 coworkers, and then add one of your close friends back onto your list instead of the granddaughter.

Granddaughter is like my little sister - we have weekly girls nights, the occasional slumber party, etc. I totally wouldn't invite her if she was just a random kid I liked but didn't know well. The only other kids there will be family or like family. 

@scribe95 I never really wanted to invite Mother or boyfriend, but I didn't know if there was a known etiquette rule on the issue. It doesn't seem like there is so at this point I'm feeling fine about just inviting Granddaughter and Coworker/Spouse. 

rajahmd

thelastdreamer said:

Mitch617 said:

thelastdreamer said:

Obviously this is such a unique situation there is no clear right or wrong answer. I would ask the grandparents what they think since you are close to them

STUCK IN THE BOX: I thought about this, but I'm not really sure how to broach that without coming across as "Do I HAVE to invite your daughter?" But if I did ask my coworker, I'm pretty sure she'd tell me not to invite her daughter. She often complains about how irresponsible her daughter is, how her daughter pushes the responsibilities of being a parent onto them, how she mooches, etc.

PPs: The reason why I'm a bit reluctant to add her to the guest list is because we're having a pretty small wedding (80 people), and it really is just family and close friends. I'm only inviting my co-workers because I work in a very small office (only three other employees) and we all know each other really well. I just feel weird that I've cut some pretty good friends but then would invite someone I've never met who isn't a SO. 

I know you said you are close to the granddaughter, but is it that important that you invite her to such a small wedding when you have already cut close friends? Will there be other kids there? If it means you have to invite the mother and bf (which I'm not sure if it does or not), maybe it's best to just have those 3 coworkers, and then add one of your close friends back onto your list instead of the granddaughter.

Granddaughter is like my little sister - we have weekly girls nights, the occasional slumber party, etc. I totally wouldn't invite her if she was just a random kid I liked but didn't know well. The only other kids there will be family or like family. 

@scribe95 I never really wanted to invite Mother or boyfriend, but I didn't know if there was a known etiquette rule on the issue. It doesn't seem like there is so at this point I'm feeling fine about just inviting Granddaughter and Coworker/Spouse. 

But that's just it- she's not your family. And it sounds like you don't really know mom, you just know what your coworker tells you. I think it's irresponsible to judge someone else's family when you only have one side. If you are inviting the kid, you need to invite the legal guardian. If you were inviting any other kid you know from youth group, you would invite their parents. I don't think you get a pass just because you happen to work with her grandparents too.

Mitch617

Ok sounds Iike you are really close and want the granddaughter there. But if you have weekly girls nights and sometimes slumber parties, I'm surprised you have never even met her mother. If the mother is THAT uninvolved in the daughters life despite living together, I would say she won't show up at the wedding even if invited. As long as you aren't pushing the limit of your venues capacity, I would just invite mom to avoid any rudeness but not count on her coming. But make sure you'd be able to fit the mom if she does RSVP yes.

MGP

Jen4948 said:

MGP said:

Jen4948 said:

Kind of hard to say.  I'd say it depends on the relationship you have with the kid, her parents, and her grandparents.

Me, if trusted adults are being invited to supervise her during the wedding, such as her grandparents, I'd be fine with the kid and her grandparents but not her mother.  But that's me.  It might be safer to juts invite the mother too.

From what the OP described it sounds like the grandparents are the primary caregivers and have the relationship with the couple.  In that case the mother may not be interested in attending and/or think it was odd that she WAS invited.  Seriously how many of you would want to go to your parent's coworker's wedding who you have never met?

It's probably better to err on the side of inviting the mother and she declines knowing that her daughter will be with her grandparents, who she obviously trusts.  Bottom line is it should be up to the mother, not the OP to make the decision for her daughter to come with just her grandparents.  Worst case scenario if the mother comes you have one extra guest and one extra adult to watch the kid, who is probably well behaved to begin with if the OP wants to invite her in the first place.

Personally I would be fine with my daughter going to a wedding with her grandparents.  However as the parent I feel that ball should be in my court, so to speak.  Not the hosts, who I had never met.

If the grandparents are their granddaughter's primary caregivers, then it can't be up to the mother whether or not her daughter attends without her, can it?

It looks like we agree about the rest of your post.

Well none of us know all of the details.  With the info we have been given - grandparents SEEM like the primary caregivers.  We don't know if that is official (like court ordered) or just a verbal understanding.  If it was official I would say yes, absolutely no problem not inviting Mom but we don't know that for sure.

Man this is a tough call.  If Mom still has parental rights then I think she should be invited but then on top of that now you have Mom's boyfriend.  It doesn't matter that the grandparents don't like him but if Mom is invited then he should be invited as not to split couples.  If OP is told Mom is a mooch they could very well come for the free food and drink, or if she is truly uninvolved she may decline and let the grandparents take the girl.  It could go either way, and I completely understand why OP does not want to invite them.

It's probably best to recognize the whole social unit (Mom, daughter, and boyfriend) or none at all.  And cross your fingers they decline and let Grandma and Grandpa bring the girl!  

thelastdreamer

Mitch617 said:

Ok sounds Iike you are really close and want the granddaughter there. But if you have weekly girls nights and sometimes slumber parties, I'm surprised you have never even met her mother. If the mother is THAT uninvolved in the daughters life despite living together, I would say she won't show up at the wedding even if invited. As long as you aren't pushing the limit of your venues capacity, I would just invite mom to avoid any rudeness but not count on her coming. But make sure you'd be able to fit the mom if she does RSVP yes.

Whenever we arrange girls nights/or slumber parties, I usually arrange with co-worker to take her home with me after youth group or co-worker drops her off. I've dropped her off at their home many times and it is always co-worker who comes outside to greet us. Granddaughter has talked to me a couple times about her mom, just saying that she wished her mom was more involved in her life, etc. I have always been careful in responding encouragingly and never bashing her mom, but I'll admit that from everything I've seen/heard, she is not an involved parent whatsoever. 

But, as a PP said, on one hand, I don't have the authority to judge a family's relationship. On the other hand, it just seems ridiculous to have to invite the mother I don't know at all and the boyfriend I really don't know at all and have heard very negative things about from co-worker.

Gahhhhhh this is tricky. Maybe I should just not invite granddaughter, but I know she'll be so disappointed. She was SO excited when we got engaged. 

rajahmd

thelastdreamer said:

Mitch617 said:

Ok sounds Iike you are really close and want the granddaughter there. But if you have weekly girls nights and sometimes slumber parties, I'm surprised you have never even met her mother. If the mother is THAT uninvolved in the daughters life despite living together, I would say she won't show up at the wedding even if invited. As long as you aren't pushing the limit of your venues capacity, I would just invite mom to avoid any rudeness but not count on her coming. But make sure you'd be able to fit the mom if she does RSVP yes.

Whenever we arrange girls nights/or slumber parties, I usually arrange with co-worker to take her home with me after youth group or co-worker drops her off. I've dropped her off at their home many times and it is always co-worker who comes outside to greet us. Granddaughter has talked to me a couple times about her mom, just saying that she wished her mom was more involved in her life, etc. I have always been careful in responding encouragingly and never bashing her mom, but I'll admit that from everything I've seen/heard, she is not an involved parent whatsoever. 

But, as a PP said, on one hand, I don't have the authority to judge a family's relationship. On the other hand, it just seems ridiculous to have to invite the mother I don't know at all and the boyfriend I really don't know at all and have heard very negative things about from co-worker.

Gahhhhhh this is tricky. Maybe I should just not invite granddaughter, but I know she'll be so disappointed. She was SO excited when we got engaged. 

She can be excited without being there. But I really don't think you can invite a minor without her legal guardian just because you don't know her and hear bad things about her secondhand.

MGP

thelastdreamer said:

Mitch617 said:

Ok sounds Iike you are really close and want the granddaughter there. But if you have weekly girls nights and sometimes slumber parties, I'm surprised you have never even met her mother. If the mother is THAT uninvolved in the daughters life despite living together, I would say she won't show up at the wedding even if invited. As long as you aren't pushing the limit of your venues capacity, I would just invite mom to avoid any rudeness but not count on her coming. But make sure you'd be able to fit the mom if she does RSVP yes.

Whenever we arrange girls nights/or slumber parties, I usually arrange with co-worker to take her home with me after youth group or co-worker drops her off. I've dropped her off at their home many times and it is always co-worker who comes outside to greet us. Granddaughter has talked to me a couple times about her mom, just saying that she wished her mom was more involved in her life, etc. I have always been careful in responding encouragingly and never bashing her mom, but I'll admit that from everything I've seen/heard, she is not an involved parent whatsoever. 

But, as a PP said, on one hand, I don't have the authority to judge a family's relationship. On the other hand, it just seems ridiculous to have to invite the mother I don't know at all and the boyfriend I really don't know at all and have heard very negative things about from co-worker.

Gahhhhhh this is tricky. Maybe I should just not invite granddaughter, but I know she'll be so disappointed. She was SO excited when we got engaged. 

First of all you sound like a great role model for this girl and what you are doing for her will impact her life in so many ways.  Awesome job!  

OK maybe this will throw a wrench in things - but is it possible for you to include her in your bridal party?  She may be too old for a flower girl but maybe like a junior bridesmaid?  I know that it would add a financial aspect to it (dress, flowers, etc) but it would be a great way to include her and it's considered an honored position.  Just something to think about.

Let the board know what you decide to do about inviting Mom.  It will probably come up again with another bride.  It really is a tough call.  While there is probably a good amount of truth that Mom is uninvolved and the boyfriend is a jerk, just remember that there are always three sides to every story.  We all have a tendency to bitch about our family and friends to coworkers (and vice versa) so you may not be getting all of the details. 

Good luck to you!

2leadsingers

I know that this is a totally different situation but I just wanted to explain an experience I had similarly. Growing up I was best friends with the daughter of my mothers best friend. We grew apart around college when I had a child out of wedlock and became a single mom working two and three jobs at a time while she went through med school and stuck to her guns about staying a virgin til marriage. Our mothers remained close and both did a lot of babysitting for me. Friend got married last year and asked my son to be the ring bearer. She graciously offerred to pay for his tux rental and I allowed her to. It was later sne through the grapevine that no children were to be included in the reception, not even him. She wanted him there for the introduction and to be gone by the end of dinner. Wedding was an hour away from my house and I couldnt afford to have a sitter come and take him away so I planned on leaving when he did. I also did not take the night off of work (I am a dj. What was the point of taking the night off I was going to be home before I would have needed to be at work?) I felt awful and snubbed and it was even more so when I found out at the reception that last minute they invited another couple to take our seats for dinner. I was thanked for leaving by the Brides mother and have not spoken to any of them since. Granted I might not have been close to them in the last few years leading to the wedding, but I was taken aback at the situation.