Colored envelopes

CMGragain

Jenna is correct about middle names.

theartistformerlyknownas

So re: the word "honor" strictly relating to deference to God - does that mean we're deifying all of the judges in this country when we call them "your honor?" "Presence" is used in a lot of ways having nothing to do with sanctified ground, too. I think it's absolutely a silly, outdated "rule" invented by people who aren't actually subject matter experts on religion. I bet if you asked the Pope, he wouldn't care one whit about whether you think it's an honor that someone is present at your non-church wedding, or that you're pleased by their company at a church wedding. 

My invitations use neither wording, no middle names, no parents' names, no English U's, and I spelled out "four o'clock in the afternoon" because I liked the way it filled up a line but didn't spell out "13" because it took up too much space. But it gives my beloved guests the 'who, what, when, and where' that they need. They may even arrive to find men in tuxedos rather than morning jackets. THE HORROR! ;-)

Yes, we all like to know what "tradition" would have us do. But does absolutely everyone have to follow it? Will the world end if we don't? Will our family members boycott our weddings because we used one set of verbiage over another? Of course not.

CMGragain

Lolo, I agree with you on most points, but when brides post here with questions, they usually want the answer that will satisfy Grandma and Aunt Mildred.  Traditional wording is usually easy,  It is the non-traditional wording that is hard to do correctly.  Some traditions are very established and well known - like the "honour of your presence" for religious locations.  Others are more flexible.  I can't tell what a family wants but I do know that people do notice if you get it wrong.  I try to help brides do it correctly and traditionally.   I try to discourage wording that confuses or insults people.  I've seen some real messes with invitation wording on the Knot.
Many posters here have not been taught traditional wording or etiquette.  I try to help.  After all, why spend all that money and time trying for the perfect invitation, and then mess it up with bad wording?  I do think it is interesting how angry some posters get when they learn traditions and rules.  They do exist.  People do know.  People will notice.

carliealissa

It's one thing if you pride yourself on being a "nontraditional" bride and knowingly decide to go against proper etiquette and tradition.  Do what you want.  But there's no need to argue... CMGragain did not just make this stuff up to annoy you.  It IS proper, regardless of the reasons.  She doesn't know if you're intentionally flouting the rules or if you might be upset when you discover how you've botched the invitations you've spent so much time on.

singinchick13

FYI......I was referring to the word "to" and not the middle names...notice it is bolded in my orginal post. "Mr. and Mrs. SoandSo request the honour of your presence/pleasure of your company at the marriage of their daughter First Middle Whatever AND FI First Middle Whatever" is not a grammatically correct sentence. The bolded word 'and' should be replaced with the word 'to'. That is all I was trying to say.

theartistformerlyknownas

CMGragain said:

Lolo, I agree with you on most points, but when brides post here with questions, they usually want the answer that will satisfy Grandma and Aunt Mildred.  Traditional wording is usually easy,  It is the non-traditional wording that is hard to do correctly.  Some traditions are very established and well known - like the "honour of your presence" for religious locations.  Others are more flexible.  I can't tell what a family wants but I do know that people do notice if you get it wrong.  I try to help brides do it correctly and traditionally.   I try to discourage wording that confuses or insults people.  I've seen some real messes with invitation wording on the Knot.
Many posters here have not been taught traditional wording or etiquette.  I try to help.  After all, why spend all that money and time trying for the perfect invitation, and then mess it up with bad wording?  I do think it is interesting how angry some posters get when they learn traditions and rules.  They do exist.  People do know.  People will notice.

And I recognized that some people are looking for that. But if someone (like OP) says "yup, thanks but no thanks" to the traditional wording, then that's fine too and nobody needs to get their panties in a twist about it. I get there are some debacles, but this isn't one of them. You say that this isn't a matter of opinion, but matters of tradition are absolutely skewed by PUBLIC opinion. An open forum like this is a great way of polling whether or not something is acceptable, or will be seen as acceptable by their own subset of friends and family members. And if enough people are commenting that they would never associate "honour of your presence" with a strictly religious ceremony on sanctified ground, you have to realize that the tide of public opinion is shifting and what's "traditional" is not necessarily a commonly-held belief anymore, and is certainly not tied to "etiquette." I know I've brought this up before but if I had a great aunt Mildred she'd be horrified that I was wearing white and not a virgin. Hell, FI's grandma wishes I was wearing a dress with sleeves because she thinks that's what's proper for a wedding. But I'm not going to appease anyone by wearing a long-sleeved brown dress to my wedding. Traditions, no matter how old and no matter how strictly they were upheld 200 years ago, CHANGE.

CMGragain

Virgin = white wedding gown has never been the rule.  Great Aunt Mildred was wrong.
There ARE a very few churches that do require sleeves: Mormons and Orthodox brides are required to have them.  There are actually bridal shops that specialize in these dresses.  They are mostly in Utah.  I gather this doesn't apply to you. 
Religious people do tend to hold on to traditions.  "Honour of your presence" is a tradition for religious houses of worship.  This has not changed.  People who are not religious may not care, but some people will care.  Be careful what traditions you decide to ignore.  What you do reflects on you.

cbabybear

Thanks to those that have actually responded to the original intent of this thread. - I'm testing out some options.

As to all the other items- well, I'm just finding this thread to be hilarious, for multiple reasons.
1) My family is very 'traditional' in the proper sense, do anything not in good taste in front of my Mother and be prepared to here an earful later. In general I'm pretty certain my fiance's family couldn't give 2 shingles what we did, his grandmother might if it were anyone else but she is blinded by her grandchildren. (Grandkids can't do anything wrong in her eyes, and yes I'm also considered her grandkid now..and have been for a few yrs)

2) My family has since seen the text and made their own revisions, some of which were suggested (in particular not the one most people are pissing about) Which in my case is the one I find most amusing.

3) Seriously - for shingles and giggles, lets throw the rest of my situation on the boards... 1 Roman Catholic parent, 1 Muslim parent (who is married to the RC), 3 agnostic parents, 1 agnostic grandparent, 1 Seventh Day adventist grandparent, 3 dead grandparents (including 1 Roman Catholic grandparent rolling her grave that I don't pray enough anymore), 1 Roman Catholic grandparent, 1 agnostic fiance, and ZERO aunts or uncles who regularly attend any sort of religious ceremony.  Will there be multiracial people at our wedding? Yes. Will there be people in head scarfs? Yes. Will there be people who don't show arms/ankles? Yes. What do I LOVE about my family and the specific sects of religion we come from/and do/do not believe in? We are tolerant and don't take offense to others choices, nor does anyone jump to conclusions.

What did I find irritable about the way this thread about colored envelopes turned out? Instead of suggesting a change to a side topic that was brought up, or suggesting that some may disagree, or that in past something was worded as such, traditionally done differently, etc... There were "aren't" "don'ts" "try again" "cannot" and overall a very negative - I know it all tone to the response.  Please in the future just advise brides on generalities, unless they ask for something more specific and have them consult family - don't tell them what is right or wrong for their particular situation.  (I only posted my draft writing because someone asked, not because I'd heavily researched it yet, or run it by family, or wanted/thought it/it'd to blow up)  I'd really like to see someone else who doesn't have our family diversity try to plan our wedding such that it was non-offensive to my guests, and fits with us.

jenna8984

@cbabybear Sorry I contributed to the straying of the conversation. I was on your side though, you asked about colored envelopes and someone basically told you your wording is a disaster, good thing I'm here to help you so you don't make a fool of yourself and ruin your invitations. I think that's complete bullcrap, no one cares about wording. "People notice, people care" No they don't....my grandmother would never in a million years be like "Wow Jenna used honor of your presence and didn't spell out eighteen- it's a travesty and the end of the world and I cannot attend her wedding because I am so offended". I realize some people are looking for this 200 year old traditional correctness but YOU did not ask for it so it should not have been brought up. Anywho, I think the colored envelopes will be gorgeous, I have light blue ones myself

Maggie0829

I would like to put this out there again...tradition =/= etiquette.  So using non-traditional wording is not wrong nor is it rude, it just makes it non-traditional.

banana468

I think the issue with using honor of your presence when it isn't in a house of worship is that it may actually be offensive. Guests may wonder why the B&G are presuming to have a holy occasion that isn't at all. I don't care as much about naming the groom's parents but I actually do think that using religious wording when it isn't may cause people to think that you're worthy of the same respect as their faith which is just not the case.

CMGragain

Banana, you have put it so perfectly.  Thank you.  Non-tradition wording is fine, as long as it does the job and doesn't insult anyone.