My plus one nightmare! (that is really about my daddy issues!)

sarawifenow

HisGirlFriday13 said:

offthemarket915 said:

"Thank you for this. I think that I am too worried about what people will think of me and not of him. Haha, I really should have titled this thread better."

OP, I understand this pressure... others put it on us, and we put a lot of it on ourselves, often because we internalize the treatment (esp as children which sticks with us) and buy into the idea that we deserve it somehow... my parent is bad to me, therefore I must be bad. 

I am estranged from my parents and have found that many times, people from "intact" families just cannot fathom this. Even on the very few instances when I would explain the reasons, they still did not get it.  I'm glad for them that they've had the kind of life where they cannot even imagine the kind I've had, but really, step off and don't judge. 

I appreciate the PP comments that people will only see that he's an ass. True to an outsider looking on.  But there is more to it for the bride (or groom) who is feeling the void of having a normal, healthy & loving parent present.  There can be grief, anger, shame and other feelings around the situation. 

Try to remember that his failings as a parent are not an indication of your value or worth or how you deserve to be treated. It's ok to deem someone's treatment of you to be lacking, regardless of relation and say, no this is not ok to have in my life.  And on your wedding day, of all days, you are entitled to be surrounded only by people that care for you.  It's ok to say that only people who love you and have done right by you are welcome to celebrate this special day.

This. I am from an intact family -- my parents are still happily married and my family is super-close. DH's family is estranged and fractured and very, very broken. 

I understand a lot of the reasons (physical and emotional abuse, substance abuse, etc.). But it's SO HARD for me to fathom it because, all I've ever known from my parents was love. The idea that parents aren't loving is kind of academic to me -- I know it's real, and it happens, but I've never personally experienced it.

DH has. And it's the reality he walks with -- that his parents aren't loving, aren't supportive, aren't good people. 

So when we wedding planned, I just said, 'Whatever you need, however I can support you, I will do that. Whatever play you make, I will back that play, 110%, and I will make sure my family understands it.'

That meant I gave my parents an outline of DH's family problems, and they spread the word among their siblings and friends, so NO ONE asked DH, 'Oh, where are your parents? Why aren't they here?'

All of the people on my side of the invite list got the bare-bones description: 'Mr. HisGirl doesn't have a relationship with his parents, they won't be there, his grandmother raised him.' And they all rolled with that. 

An accidental contribution of genetic material, or an accidental genetic relationship, means nothing other than that you share DNA. It doesn't make or define a relationship.

My view exactly.

phira

@offthemarket915 Oh my god SO many people have asked if my dad is coming to the wedding. I'm constantly surprised at who asks.

I'm mostly struggling with how it's affecting my siblings; there were a few months where I was worried my sister wouldn't come to the wedding at all (she was so susprised that I would have thought that, though). But yeah. One of the major things with estrangement is that it's TOTALLY possible for one person to be treated just fine, and another one to be treated badly. I don't think my dad is a good parent to anyone, but he did treat my siblings better than he treated me. And my siblings deal with him much differently than I did. And that's okay--I don't actually want them to have a terrible relationship with him.

I try to focus less on who's not coming to the wedding, and focus on who IS coming. Instead of, "Oh, so there's no father-daughter dance?" I say, "We're doing a mother-son dance." Instead of, "My dad isn't walking me down the aisle," I say, "My mom's walking me down the aisle." Focusing on presence, not absence, has been a relief.

offthemarket915

@hisgirlfriday13  Thanks for a view from the "other side"   Your response and support to FI sounds spot on to me, and it's the best anyone in that position could expect.  My FI is the same and I cannot say how much his support has meant to me.  These major life events can cause us to re-experience the grieving process and a lot of support is needed.  Sometimes it forces us to let go of any fantasies that it would all work out somehow, or that the offending parent will realize what they've done, feel remorse and seek reconciliation, etc.  It is deep, ugly stuff during a time when we should be happy and celebratory, which can lead to resentment.  Really, just an awesome time all around lol

And I'm glad you took steps to head off any questions on the day of.  This is a concern for me. I feel ashamed (holdover from childhood that I mentioned above) and worried that others will be asking all those questions and I think FI has put the word out as well, so hopefully people won't ask.  I really just hope to be so caught up in our beautiful day and do not want anyone inadvertenly bursting that bubble for me.  For some of us with violent backgrounds, even thinking about it can cause a physiological response.  Not what I want for that day.  ETA: Because there will be no ugly crying! lol

HisGirlFriday13

@offthemarket915 -- I didn't even tell DH before I did it, I just did it. He has such a visceral reaction to discussing his parents that I knew him being asked about it would just set him on edge.

So I told my parents, and they spread the word, and it worked for us.

As we got closer to the wedding, he mentioned being worried about people from my side wondering about his parents. I was like, 'Babes, I got your back. I have this covered. We're good.' I told him what I'd done, and he looked SO relieved. He was thankful, and happy.

(His grandmother, horrible old battleaxe that she is, did mention to him during their dance that it 'would have been nice' if his father (her son) had been there. I could have throttled her.)

offthemarket915

@offthemarket915 Oh my god SO many people have asked if my dad is coming to the wedding. I'm constantly surprised at who asks.

I'm mostly struggling with how it's affecting my siblings; there were a few months where I was worried my sister wouldn't come to the wedding at all (she was so susprised that I would have thought that, though). But yeah. One of the major things with estrangement is that it's TOTALLY possible for one person to be treated just fine, and another one to be treated badly. I don't think my dad is a good parent to anyone, but he did treat my siblings better than he treated me. And my siblings deal with him much differently than I did. And that's okay--I don't actually want them to have a terrible relationship with him.

 

I try to focus less on who's not coming to the wedding, and focus on who IS coming. Instead of, "Oh, so there's no father-daughter dance?" I say, "We're doing a mother-son dance." Instead of, "My dad isn't walking me down the aisle," I say, "My mom's walking me down the aisle." Focusing on presence, not absence, has been a relief.

@phira It's such a staple for a wedding that I think they can't help themselves.  Even my bff/MOH asked who'd be walking me down the aisle.  SMH. 

Again, ITA with the way you said that... if the parent treated them better, in any way, it becomes a defense.  Again, I'm glad you and your sister are together. Some shun the target, further isolating them, rather than deal with the strife of facing that the parent has both sides.

Meant to add that I think that's a great way to look at it!

Amyzen83

I just want to say to all the ladies who've had poor childhoods or estranged from your families, I'm so sorry you have had to deal with that! I think in some ways that makes you all stronger more self assured individuals. I wish you all the love and support from the people in your lives who have been positive forces in your lives. Sometimes I think parents should have to earn some sort of good parenting license in order to be parents but it is what it is.

offthemarket915

SaraBrideSoon said:

Changed the title to something a little more appropriate. You ladies are like personal therapists. Love it.

offthemarket915

HisGirlFriday13 said:

@offthemarket915 -- I didn't even tell DH before I did it, I just did it. He has such a visceral reaction to discussing his parents that I knew him being asked about it would just set him on edge.

So I told my parents, and they spread the word, and it worked for us.

As we got closer to the wedding, he mentioned being worried about people from my side wondering about his parents. I was like, 'Babes, I got your back. I have this covered. We're good.' I told him what I'd done, and he looked SO relieved. He was thankful, and happy.

(His grandmother, horrible old battleaxe that she is, did mention to him during their dance that it 'would have been nice' if his father (her son) had been there. I could have throttled her.)

@hisgirlfriday13 You, my dear, are one smart cookie. I could hug you for being so kind and proactive for FI.

Good grief that woman is a menace.  Goes to show that everyone has their fantasies, but she needs to shut up.

offthemarket915

Wow, that got deep, I think I need a nap lol.  Or at least a glass of wine!

phira

@hisgirlfriday13 I wish J were a little more like you! I had to ask him to talk to his family about my family issues before I met them, and he didn't totally get why. I'm not sure how much his family knows, honestly. I could imagine that some of his cousins might ask me about where my dad is. And I could definitely see some of his friends asking as well. And since it's such a sensitive subject with my siblings, AND because my paternal grandparents might be there, it could be a bad subject for the wedding day itself.

I'm sure he'll be 100% supportive if I ask, I just am sad I have to ask. He's been wonderful about the whole situation in general, but he's just a little clueless when it comes to going the extra mile without being asked.

HisGirlFriday13

@phira -- Thanks! I'm sorry J isn't being more supportive.

I just watched DH (then BF) and watched his face crumple when he talked about his parents, and watched him tense up when his father called and watched his jaw clench when his sister texted him and I just knew I didn't want to put him through that and I'd go to any lengths to protect him if I could.

I think it's a case of knowing your family. My Greek-Irish family is SO close and SO up in each other's business and SO just in-your-face. It's how we are. My family is loud and over-bearing and kind of nutty -- but we will also stand together in the face of anything.

So that's how I pitched it to my parents -- 'This man is my FI, your FSIL, and this is a sensitive topic for him, so we need to protect him,' and that was all my mom needed; she went into full-on Mama Bear mode, and that was it. 

My parents' siblings know some of the details (they know that abuse was the root cause), but nothing else. My parents' friends who were at the wedding were just told, 'Grandmother raised him, parents not in the picture.' And no one asked.

I'm sad you have to ask, too. I'm sad for your situation. I want to just hug you. (((HUGS)))

HisGirlFriday13

offthemarket915 said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

@offthemarket915 -- I didn't even tell DH before I did it, I just did it. He has such a visceral reaction to discussing his parents that I knew him being asked about it would just set him on edge.

So I told my parents, and they spread the word, and it worked for us.

As we got closer to the wedding, he mentioned being worried about people from my side wondering about his parents. I was like, 'Babes, I got your back. I have this covered. We're good.' I told him what I'd done, and he looked SO relieved. He was thankful, and happy.

(His grandmother, horrible old battleaxe that she is, did mention to him during their dance that it 'would have been nice' if his father (her son) had been there. I could have throttled her.)

@hisgirlfriday13 You, my dear, are one smart cookie. I could hug you for being so kind and proactive for FI.

Good grief that woman is a menace.  Goes to show that everyone has their fantasies, but she needs to shut up.

Awww, thanks! 

And yes, she is. I get that her delusional fantasy world includes her son's children liking him, but that's not going to happen.

Early on when we were dating, we went to Burger King, and I said to DH, 'Oh, I have such fond memories of Burger King!'

He said, 'You have fond memories of a mediocre fast-food chain? Why?'

I said, 'When I was in middle and high school, I took tennis lessons, and my dad used to drive me to them, watch me practice, then we'd go to BK for lunch after. It was our thing. We did it for like five years, every winter.'

He got kind of quiet and then said, 'When I was little, my dad took me to AA meetings with him, except for the times he was off the wagon, which was a lot.'

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?!?! I mean, really, WHAT DO I SAY TO THAT when my partner's childhood memories of his father are going to AA meetings and mine are going to tennis practice with my dad??

abbyj700

@HisGirlFriday

I know how you feel. My dad and I had a wonderful relationship growing up and still do. My FI didn't talk to his dad for 5 years and he knows his mother left due to alcoholism and abuse. His dad has done a lot to repair his life and relationship with his sons and ex wife throughout the years. He still drinks, he's still a little crazy - but completely harmless at this point thank god. Still, there are those moments that I can tell FI looks at my relationship with my dad with wonder and wishes his with his own would have been the same. I like to remind him of the great people that were there, his mom, his step dad, his grandparents - and the presence they still have today. 

But when your FI tells you a few months into dating that his father called him on his 13th birthday and said "word is around town that I'm not your dad - go talk to your bitch of a mom" and he doesn't talk to him again until his 18th birthday....really - to quote a smart woman "WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?!?! "

Amyzen83

Ouch!!!!

lightningsnow

I'm estranged from pretty much my entire side of the family from my father. I know that when my BF and I get married I'm going to have to have him talk with his family about why that part of my family will not be there. Of course there are members of that side of the family who will be invited but there are others who I do not want there at all. In the 12 years that I estranged myself from them, I only received one apology for how I was treated.

What had happened to me, which I discussed in the past on another screenname, was so devastating to me that I didn't understand how my family could turn their back on me about what happened. I know that my father may fight me on the topic of who gets an invitation to my wedding in the future. He understands why I wouldn't want them there but it is his family. Something we'll cross when we get there. I'm just enjoying what I have with my BF now.

To the ladies who are estranged from their parents, you ladies have amazing strength to put your foot down about not inviting them. Coming from an intact family, as in my parents are still married and taught me so much about unconditional love, I can't seem to fathom it either sometimes. But since my oldest brothers are estranged from their biological father I can understand how that can affect someone.

Cookie Pusher

I have a bio-dad that I have zero relationship with. When we first started planning, FFIL asked if I was inviting the sperm donor to the wedding, I explained that I had no interest in inviting someone who abandoned their family simply because their offspring had the wrong anatomy (seriously, he wanted nothing to do with us because we weren't boy children). He totally understood. There were other serious grievances I have against my father (like... what possesses you to beat your child within an inch of their life? I will never, ever understand that), but I didn't even have to bring it up. Just the fact that bio-dad would just walk out on our family infuriated FFIL, and he supports my decision 100%. FI has known that my step-father was my REAL dad since even before we were dating, and has always been on board with not inviting the douchecanoe. Now that my mother is in another one of her crazy cycles, he supports me in whatever happens in relation to her/my sisters and our wedding. His family is "intact", but he understands that not all families are loving and supportive. Thank goodness.

kitsunegari89

I'm ready to accept any acronym, but STD is just too much...

phira

@hisgirlfriday13 Talked with J when he got home, and he was SUPER awesome and understanding. We agreed that most of his aunts and uncles almost definitely know about my family situation and will know not to ask, and that his cousins are all tactful enough that if they were curious, they wouldn't ask me or my family about it during the wedding. However, he has a handful of friends who really. REALLY. REALLY would bring it up at the wedding, potentially to my siblings (since my sister is a bridesmaid and might feel "safer" to ask than the bride herself). So he's going to talk with those friends individually sometime before the wedding, and he's also going to spread the word again through his family (since the first time, it was almost 3 years ago when they were all first meeting me).

KrisLSmiley

HisGirlFriday13 Great idea about letting others know why you FI doesn't have family there! 

My FI's Dad and Brother both passed when he was under 10 (one was murdered and the other died in a fire) so he doesn't have anyone but his mom and stepdad coming who he's really not all that close to.   I've got lot's of family so I'll definitely make sure there aren't any awkward questions about where his family is.  Also my Dad is bedridden so he won't make it so I'm not even telling them about the wedding until it's over.  Broken families are so complicated!

perdonami

offthemarket915 said:

 Especially in cases involving abuse, often one child becomes the target and the others do not receive the same treatment.  They may be poorly treated, but not to the extent of the target. Therefore, they cannot reconcile the experience (as you said) of the abused with the image they have of a parent they may love. And so they choose sides, or at least in my case they do. Only my Grandmother, who has sadly passed, stood by my side.  And the cheese stands alone.

 

Admittedly, reading this made me tear up a little. What you described really hits home for me as it almost is exactly what I am going through. My fiance calls me the "white sheep" because I am so estranged from my family but not because I was a trouble maker but rather just chose a different path to follow. 

I went to college and my brother (who use to be my best friend growing up and the one I originally wanted to walk me down the aisle) hit the liquor bottle. My dad wouldn't support my academic endeavors to the point I had to forge his signatures (as he was too busy using illicit substances to attend these parent/teacher meetings) to enter advanced placement classes. But, my brother always did support me during my youth. He protected me, raised me, fed me, and nurtured me. Now my brother has a drinking problem, very similar to our father, and has forgotten a lot of the struggles we had growing up. My brother (along with the rest of my family) no longer understands why I feel uncomfortable with my father walking me down the aisle and he refuses to walk with me instead. Unfortunately, somewhere along the line, our close friendship was lost. It may have been inappropriate to ask him to escort me down the aisle to begin with. Just allowing myself to relive these moments and remember how we use to be breaks my heart. He was the only family I have ever had.

As you so eloquently stated, "and the cheese stands alone."

offthemarket915

perdonami said:

offthemarket915 said:

 Especially in cases involving abuse, often one child becomes the target and the others do not receive the same treatment.  They may be poorly treated, but not to the extent of the target. Therefore, they cannot reconcile the experience (as you said) of the abused with the image they have of a parent they may love. And so they choose sides, or at least in my case they do. Only my Grandmother, who has sadly passed, stood by my side.  And the cheese stands alone.

 

Admittedly, reading this made me tear up a little. What you described really hits home for me as it almost is exactly what I am going through. My fiance calls me the "white sheep" because I am so estranged from my family but not because I was a trouble maker but rather just chose a different path to follow. 

I went to college and my brother (who use to be my best friend growing up and the one I originally wanted to walk me down the aisle) hit the liquor bottle. My dad wouldn't support my academic endeavors to the point I had to forge his signatures (as he was too busy using illicit substances to attend these parent/teacher meetings) to enter advanced placement classes. But, my brother always did support me during my youth. He protected me, raised me, fed me, and nurtured me. Now my brother has a drinking problem, very similar to our father, and has forgotten a lot of the struggles we had growing up. My brother (along with the rest of my family) no longer understands why I feel uncomfortable with my father walking me down the aisle and he refuses to walk with me instead. Unfortunately, somewhere along the line, our close friendship was lost. It may have been inappropriate to ask him to escort me down the aisle to begin with. Just allowing myself to relive these moments and remember how we use to be breaks my heart. He was the only family I have ever had.

As you so eloquently stated, "and the cheese stands alone."

Thank you perdonami for sharing all that. It does help to know others understand.  In that way, we're not alone, even if our families have been unwilling and/or unable to be good to us.  Everything you said resonates with me too... including the 'white sheep'.  Just try to remember that it's not about you.  It's about their failures, which they are reminded of when they see you succeed.  Perhaps your brother balks at the idea of walking you down the aisle b/c he now identifies more with your father than you, and so he internalizes the rejection that is really for your father.  I've been following your other thread and am sending virtual hugs.  Feel free to message me anytime

countrygirl061513

My parents divorced when I was an infant, and I didn't see my dad at all from age 5 to age 23 when I tracked him down. At first me finding my dad was ok with my mom. They even tried reconciling for a while. Thankfully that didn't work. My mom is very hard to describe. Fast forward 10 years to when I was planning my wedding. It was my 3rd marriage, but the first wedding that I had with my dad in my life. So I asked him to walk me down the aisle. We have gotten very close over the last 10 years and he is wonderful. I wish he had been able to be around when I was growing up. My mom on the other hand had a huge fit about him "giving me away". She made me feel horrible about it. When me and hubby picked our wedding date, we ended up picking my grandparents' anniversary of June 15th. I have always been extremely close to my grandparents (my mom's parents). My mom and her mom have a very dysfunctional relationship, I feel its mostly on my mom's part but I don't know. I asked my grandma to also walk with me and my dad down the aisle. My grandfather passed when I was 14. This set my mom off again. So I made a decision that I stopped talking to her about my plans and the wedding went off almost without a hitch.

Its hard to deal with dysfunctional families. *sending you hugs* Feel free to vent as much as you need. As you can see there are lots of us out here that do understand what you are going through.

ShellD13

I too was estranged from my father.  Much like your father - when I did hear from or about my dad (which was rare) it was often through others that he had been bragging to about his terrific daughter... Which generally pissed me off because my mom was a single parent and literally worked her self to an early grave (massive heart attack at age of 45 when I was 15) so to have my dad taking all of this credit for my life when he really had no part in it was very frustrating.

Anyways he was recently involved in a very bad accident and his friends stated repeatedly that I was the only one he would trust to take care of his affairs while he was incapacitated.  I did and he has since recovered and we've rebuilt a bit of a relationship but it still isn't to a point where I'd ever feel comfortable having him "give me away" at my upcoming wedding.  And I thought that inviting him to watch me get married and have to see my guardian walk me down the aisle would be very painful to my father.  So I made the executive decision to not invite my father.  FI and I are having a very small wedding (less than 16 people) so I've just told my father that FI and I are eloping with FI's kids.  Is it a lie yes, but I think it spares a lot of drama and hurt feelings all around.  Although I will admit that this is a bit easier to get away with in my case because all of my dad's family lives several states away and I don't really have any contact with them.

I like the advice you have received from previous posters - don't send a STD card.  That way if the relationship is going well and you think he will be okay at the ceremony you can choose to invite him later if not you are not obligated to invite him and whomever he maybe seeing at the time.  At the end of the day, it is your wedding and if your dad's presence will upset you or cause you grief you need to make the decision that feels right to you.