Are We Supposed to Initiate a Money Talk?

JellyBean52513

zitiqueen said:

Your FI is a major momma's boy? You're okay with that?

Why shouldn't she be? I mean, I've definitely dated guys whose moms were really over-protective, but a man can have a really strong relationship with his mom without it being a bad thing. You ask that question like being a major mama's boy is equivalent to eating bugs or something.

Jells2dot0

LaurettaLuLu said:

@Sammyantha13  don't worry homeslice, sweetie and I blew up the boards here 3 times with etiquette questions.  Thankfully we were able to avoid several embarassing mistakes with the help of everyone here.  

A word of caution - I would avoid the pp suggestion to ask about "what areas they'd like to be involved in."  That's just asking for money without asking for money, which is kind of passive aggressive.  Or not even really passive, just aggressive.  If people want to help, they will let you know.  We've found that having zero expectations about help has made the process a lot more fun, since we have ultimate control over the decisions.  When help was offered, we were very grateful, especially since we had already made the decisions on venue, location, religion, etc. 

" So I like Jells2dot0's suggestion about asking them if there are any areas that they would like to be more involved in.  I will talk to his mom about it."  

How is asking someone if they are interested in being involved asking for money??? My xILs didn't contribute a cent to my wedding, but we still asked them if they wanted to attend any of our vendor meetings or help us pick out certain things. It's just the respectful thing to do, unless you really want to avoid having someone being involved.

Sammyantha13

CMGragain said:

I really question your choice of blowing so much of your father's bequest to a one day party (wedding).  I am not a fan of big weddings.  Mine was a simple cake and punch affair at our church.  Perhaps you should re-think your plans?

Think about scaling back your plans.

I'm sorry that you don't agree with our choice, but honestly it's not your decision what I do with my father's money.  You may not like big weddings, but we do.  FI's family alone is about 60 people, and total we are planning on 120-140, so that's not terribly huge.  

I am not sacrificing my master's degree in order to have this wedding, and we are not going to go into debt over this wedding.  Not even close.  Plus we couldn't really scale back our plans now since we have already booked the venue/catering and sent out STDs to everyone.  And we are both really excited about how and where we're doing it!  So in my opinion, this is not just 'blowing' money for no reason.  

CMGragain

You are right.  It's your decision. Sorry.  It's just the over-protective mommy in me that wants you to be happy down the road.

QueerFemme

Way to own up to that CMGr. I love seeing when people can admit some overstepping.

lyndausvi

JellyBean52513 said:

zitiqueen said:

Your FI is a major momma's boy? You're okay with that?

Why shouldn't she be? I mean, I've definitely dated guys whose moms were really over-protective, but a man can have a really strong relationship with his mom without it being a bad thing. You ask that question like being a major mama's boy is equivalent to eating bugs or something.

Yep.  My DH has a very strong relationship with his mom.  Calls her pretty much everyday.   His relationship with his mom doesn't have a negative effect on our relationship.

JellyBean52513

lyndausvi said:

JellyBean52513 said:

zitiqueen said:

Your FI is a major momma's boy? You're okay with that?

Why shouldn't she be? I mean, I've definitely dated guys whose moms were really over-protective, but a man can have a really strong relationship with his mom without it being a bad thing. You ask that question like being a major mama's boy is equivalent to eating bugs or something.

Yep.  My DH has a very strong relationship with his mom.  Calls her pretty much everyday.   His relationship with his mom doesn't have a negative effect on our relationship.

See! My SO is somewhat of a mama's boy, and it has lead her to calling me her "daughter" or introducing me to relatives as her "future daughter" even though we aren't engaged yet. Because of their closeness, she values me because he does and I love that. Plus, I know she's a great woman because she raised a great guy

zitiqueen

How many times have we seen a poster say that her FI is a major momma's boy here, by which they meant that he has a strong relationship with his mother and she's very proud of him? Once. This is the first time. You long-timers know that every other time a poster refers to her FI as a momma's boy, she's meant that her FI has no balls and puts mommy above his future wife and lets mommy make all of his decisions for him.

kmmssg

OP - kudos to you for really listening to some good advice and changing the way you are thinking about some of this.

When our last DD got married 5 years ago she married an only child.  His parents adore DD.  They said "we want to help with the wedding" and left it at that.  It was time to plan and her FI and his parents had NO idea how far out venues/vendors need to be booked around here.  He also comes from the quintessential Big Fat Italian Family.  We couldn't really make plans without knowing what "their help" would be.  Her then FI asked  his parents to define what their help would be so we could get the ball rolling.  Turns out they paid for 1/3 of the wedding!  They were very generous but because we were more than a year out from the wedding they hadn't really told the kids what they were thinking.

It is NEVER ever ok to ask for money but when parents volunteer that they WANT to help with the wedding it is ok to ask what they have in mind. In that situation, it is best to just keep them informed of what your plans are.  If they balk you just tell them that is what your budget allows for.  If they volunteer to help, Great!!  If they don't, quit sharing plans with them because they want things outside the budget.

Good luck in your planning.

 

SlothGoals

OP I've gotta say that your "first born" comment really bothered me. I am second born, getting married before my older sister, and my parents are very happy and as involved as they want to be with the wedding. I sincerely hope that if you have children of your own one day you don't put the "first" over the "second" when they're growing up and going through life milestones.

CMGragain

Wait a minute!  You guys think "first born" is a good thing?
Firstborn gets to take care of the responsibilities when second born doesn't want to.
Firstborn has to be an example to the others.
Firstborn has to "take care" of Mom and sister when father dies young.
Firstborn has all the responsibilities, and not much of the fun.

You folks hit a nerve.  Yup, I'm first born.  I actually went to therapy to learn that I was accepting too much responsibility.

Just once in my life I would like to behave irresponsibly like my siblings!  Not possible.  I'm hardwired.

Cookie Pusher

I seriously got the short end of the "first born" stick. I have pretty much gone through all the things @CMGragain listed off - and have been constantly told that I'm a "bad daughter" for not helping enough, moving away from home as soon as I graduated from college (!?!?), and that any time anything bothered me was because I was too sensitive, not because my mother has said and done awful things to me. One of my younger sisters got married before I did. Mom paid... after telling me when I got engaged (several months before my sister) that she had already spent money that had been put aside for my wedding on a new deck for her house (not that I asked her for money, this was literally the first words out of her mouth when I said I was engaged).

kitsunegari89

TBH, I would rather have money in my pocket than have an extravagant wedding. Also, parents don't always help their first born get married. My parents have paid for most of my wedding, and MOG hasn't ponied up even for things the groom's family would have traditionally paid for. She did give us a little money that we put towards the open bar, but we paid for the rest and it wasn't cheap. Anyway, keep your expectations to a minimum.

kitsunegari89

CMGragain said:

Wait a minute!  You guys think "first born" is a good thing?
Firstborn gets to take care of the responsibilities when second born doesn't want to.
Firstborn has to be an example to the others.
Firstborn has to "take care" of Mom and sister when father dies young.
Firstborn has all the responsibilities, and not much of the fun.

You folks hit a nerve.  Yup, I'm first born.  I actually went to therapy to learn that I was accepting too much responsibility.

Just once in my life I would like to behave irresponsibly like my siblings!  Not possible.  I'm hardwired.

Yeah, I've had to put up with way more crap than my younger brother. My parents looked the other way while he behaved irresponsibly and if I set one toe out of line, even now as an adult, it's the END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT. My mom always worries about him, going over to his house (that they pay his rent for) and helping him tidy it up etc. I live nearby, and she's only visited twice this year. And I don't need her to clean, I just want her to have a cup of tea and some homemade shortbread that I know is her fave.

Anyways, I've been the most responsible and dad says that I deserve my wedding for not causing any of his grey hair. And I'm going to take it and enjoy it! It's nice to be the center of the universe for like, 5 seconds.

SlothGoals

CMGragain said:

Wait a minute!  You guys think "first born" is a good thing?
Firstborn gets to take care of the responsibilities when second born doesn't want to.
Firstborn has to be an example to the others.
Firstborn has to "take care" of Mom and sister when father dies young.
Firstborn has all the responsibilities, and not much of the fun.

You folks hit a nerve.  Yup, I'm first born.  I actually went to therapy to learn that I was accepting too much responsibility.

Just once in my life I would like to behave irresponsibly like my siblings!  Not possible.  I'm hardwired.

@CMGragain not everyone's situation is like yours. Just because I was born second doesn't automatically mean that I wasn't expected to take responsibility for anything. I'm the one who drove my sick father to his doctor's appointments, I'm the one who took time off work to take care of my bed-ridden grandfather while my father was in cancer treatments. 

I was held just as accountable for my actions as my sister was when we were growing up; maybe even more so because if I wasn't just like her I was the one who got yelled at. I was the one who was compared to her when I made mistakes she never did.

To me it sounds like all children get the short end of the stick sometimes.

lyndausvi

First born talk is interesting.  My sister and I came out the wrong order.   She has all the traits of the first born although she was the 2nd.  I have more of the second born traits.   

Sugargirl1019

I'm going to derail this thread back to a slightly off topic subject that maybe has a little something to do with FILs and wedding contribution.

I always have some type of story about FMIL.. haha well FI has been getting texts like "who normally pays for the groom's cake?" "Are we supposed to pay for the bridal bouquet?" So he comes to me and asks what to say.. Regarding the groom's cake, I responded that tradition is there is no tradition. As of right now my mother is paying for the cakes (she offered) but we would love any contribution. FMIL texts back that nowhere on the internet does it say she has to pay for the groom's cake, so she's not going to pay for it.

She will pay for my bridal bouquet (what a nice gesture!), but she worded it like she was being forced to by "tradition". I should probably just decline because of the wrong intent..

Aside from the "parents aren't expected to contribute", it definitely leaves a sour taste in my mouth that she comes close to apparently offering to pay but then backs out because "she doesn't have to". Well duh, you don't HAVE to do anything. My mother is graciously gifting us things for our wedding because she gets joy from helping her children and seeing me so happy. Sorry YOU don't feel that you want to contribute out of joy and love, but because of what the internet says and what you think you "have" to do. It's annoying. /rolls eyes.

NYCBruin

CMGragain said:

Wait a minute!  You guys think "first born" is a good thing?
Firstborn gets to take care of the responsibilities when second born doesn't want to.
Firstborn has to be an example to the others.
Firstborn has to "take care" of Mom and sister when father dies young.
Firstborn has all the responsibilities, and not much of the fun.

You folks hit a nerve.  Yup, I'm first born.  I actually went to therapy to learn that I was accepting too much responsibility.

Just once in my life I would like to behave irresponsibly like my siblings!  Not possible.  I'm hardwired.

Whoa there. Slow down on the assumptions. Your situation is not universal. Not all first borns are the way you described and plenty of non first borns do all those things. I know plenty of families where the "baby" is the responsible one who takes care of everyone and everything and the first born is the irresponsible one.

cruffino

CMGragain said:

Wait a minute!  You guys think "first born" is a good thing?
Firstborn gets to take care of the responsibilities when second born doesn't want to.
Firstborn has to be an example to the others.
Firstborn has to "take care" of Mom and sister when father dies young.
Firstborn has all the responsibilities, and not much of the fun.

You folks hit a nerve.  Yup, I'm first born.  I actually went to therapy to learn that I was accepting too much responsibility.

Just once in my life I would like to behave irresponsibly like my siblings!  Not possible.  I'm hardwired.

Amen. I'm the oldest too. And my therapist has a lot to say about it!

However DH is the second born, and takes all the responsibility in his family. We are alike in that way.

Sammyantha13

I don't think I made this clear previously, but I am the first born in my family too.  So yes, I understand what all of you are talking about as far as responsibilities and struggles, etc.  And as I said, my dad passed away a few years ago while I was in college, so yes I took care of my younger siblings and I was left the beneficiary on all of my dad's accounts so I'm dealing with that financial responsibility too.  But I'm not unhappy about being first-born one bit.  There are things that are unfair when it comes to the younger siblings and I was definitely overprotected growing up, but I love my sibs so it's not something that gets me really worked up.  My siblings are both very responsible too; my brother is only 18 so he's still learning but he's a very sweet and sensitive guy and I know he'll turn out fine.  Our parents did as good of a job as they could at making sure we were all treated equally.

So FI and I are BOTH the first born in our families and that's more what I was trying to ask in my original post...both of our parents are new to the whole wedding planning process, so no one really knows what they're doing.  When I talk to my mom about wedding expenses, she tries to compare it to her wedding expenses from 1985, lol.  I wasn't trying to say that since we are the first borns we should have our wedding paid for by our parents and screw our sibilngs...I know that they will make sure our sibs are taken care of too.  I was just saying that I know they all want to help but no one really knows what to do so no one is doing anything.  And @mrshutzier, everyone's definition of 'extravagant' is subjective...so by my definition I don't think we're having an extravagant wedding.  I consider it to be more average, and that's fine by me.  Thanks for the comments everyone!  Very thought-provoking.  

MairePoppy

@Sugargirl1019. I would just tell FMIL her help isn't needed or wanted. 

lyndausvi

Sammyantha13 said:

I don't think I made this clear previously, but I am the first born in my family too.  So yes, I understand what all of you are talking about as far as responsibilities and struggles, etc.  And as I said, my dad passed away a few years ago while I was in college, so yes I took care of my younger siblings and I was left the beneficiary on all of my dad's accounts so I'm dealing with that financial responsibility too.  But I'm not unhappy about being first-born one bit.  There are things that are unfair when it comes to the younger siblings and I was definitely overprotected growing up, but I love my sibs so it's not something that gets me really worked up.  My siblings are both very responsible too; my brother is only 18 so he's still learning but he's a very sweet and sensitive guy and I know he'll turn out fine.  Our parents did as good of a job as they could at making sure we were all treated equally.

So FI and I are BOTH the first born in our families and that's more what I was trying to ask in my original post...both of our parents are new to the whole wedding planning process, so no one really knows what they're doing.  When I talk to my mom about wedding expenses, she tries to compare it to her wedding expenses from 1985, lol.  I wasn't trying to say that since we are the first borns we should have our wedding paid for by our parents and screw our sibilngs...I know that they will make sure our sibs are taken care of too.  I was just saying that I know they all want to help but no one really knows what to do so no one is doing anything.  And @mrshutzier, everyone's definition of 'extravagant' is subjective...so by my definition I don't think we're having an extravagant wedding.  I consider it to be more average, and that's fine by me.  Thanks for the comments everyone!  Very thought-provoking.  

Being the 1st born does not mean you are the first to get married.   I got married 11 years after my siblings got married and I'm the first born. DH happen to be first born and first to get married.  However, he got married late in his 30's.  Plenty of time for the others to have gotten married. The youngest is getting married on our 6th anniversary.  None of the others have gotten married.

Simply staying it's the first wedding in each family is all you had to say. Your order in the family doesn't mean anything.  

CMGragain

Thank you all for listening to my vent.  Even after all these years, it still hurts.

Dad died of pancreatic cancer at the age of 44.  It was very unexpected.
The phone rang in the middle of the night.  I knew Mom and Grandma (his Mom) were at the hospital, and I knew what the call meant.
My maternal grandmother, came running down the stairs to tell me.  She tripped, fell and threw up.  I put her to bed and cleaned up the mess.
When Mom and other Grandma got home, Mom fainted in the doorway.  Grandma was hysterical.  I gave grandma some pills and put her to bed.  I dragged Mom into the house, revived her with cold water, and put her to bed.
The next morning I was on a plane to Iowa with Grandma and younger sister.  I was told to take care of them.  I was 15.
I never did cry.

Thanks for listening, and I'm sorry if I offended some of you younger folks.
I've been safe with my (firstborn) protective and responsible DH for 37 years.

FiancB

So I'll weigh in on this since I was kind of in a similar situation.

My grandfather passed and I received a large chunk of money and will also be receiving payments for a total of 10 years. Not a huge amount, but it's been a big help for sure. I used the big chunk to buy a truck and to move. I have since sold the truck, so I have a workable amount of money sitting in the bank that's been earmarked for wedding money. It is a decent amount but still definitely puts us in budget territory should that be all that we end up having. And we aren't super stoked about bleeding that account dry when we too would like to use it on things like a start to a house payment. So we certainly were hoping for some financial assistance. 

My parents are quite wealthy. I'll be honest, I'm not stoked about the fact that they haven't offered any help, especially since they paid for my sister's. But it is what it is. I haven't asked for anything. I do hope they come around and help us some, but at this point we are just over 3 months out and we are operating under the assumption that we won't receive anything. 

So I understand the urge to have a tantrum but as others said you need to check yourself and remember you aren't entitled to anything. Easier said than done, I truly do understand. 

You need to prioritize and to assume that you won't get help and budget accordingly. If future investments are that important, you need to trim your wedding budget. If a big fancy wedding is more of a priority, that's fine too but you need to come to peace with it throwing a big dent in your budget. You say big weddings are a necessity and I totally understand that but I have a friend that has a similarly huge family and they are pulling it of for $12k. I'm not saying there's an appropriate/inappropriate set amount of money to spend on a wedding, but you do need to figure out an amount that's comfortable to you and don't get caught in the trap of feeling like your wedding will be lame if you don't spend a massive amount of money on it.  

For me there's a silver lining there because if we had been given money for our wedding, there would definitely be strings attached whereas this way we are doing things exactly how we want. We have had to cut things, some things we would like to have, but ultimately we are able to accommodate all of the guests that we want there and treat them well and that's all that matters in the end.