Living situation - major disagreement

missmarissa14

My fiance and I lived in an apartment together for a year Feb 2012 - Feb 2013. I moved an hour and a half from my hometown and also found a new job here. Last year my FI bought a business and his Father generously fronted him $80,000 for it.
He his paying his Dad back over several years and to save money we decided to move in with his parents in March 2013. We weren't engaged at this time and we made an agreement to live at his parents house for 1 year.

We are now at 1 year later and I am ready to move out. I appreciate his parents opening their home to us but I am more than ready to have my own place again. I have been looking at apartments but my FI is 100% against this idea. He believes this is throwing money away. I understand what he is saying but I am looking at it as only temporary (1 year lease) while we search for a house.

Right now in this very moment we are not prepared to buy a home, which is why I was looking at apartments. He is in the process of getting a part time job and is going to talk to his Dad about adjusting his payments to him. We haven't even started the loan approval process.

I'm so upset because I want my own place again but I don't know if I can bring myself to do something he whole heartedly disagrees with. I feel at a loss either way.

Thoughts?

Blergbot

Hmm...what happened to the business?

missmarissa14

He still has the business. They bought it in September 2012 and he has several years of paying his Father back.

pinkshorts27

I think you two need to sit down and have a discussion about this. This is the first of many choices you will make as a couple and you both really need to be on the same page. You don't want a decision that one partner resents the other down the road. Pro/Con discussions are helpful. Also list what you value (for example: I would value the privacy and independence of having a place on my own even if it meant living in a studio or a one bedroom small cheap apartment). Find compromises and discuss. Both of you need to be open to a discussion and listening to the other person's opinion. 

You need a chance to tell him that you could live with that arrangement for a year, but were under the impression that it was just a year. Maybe you could, as a couple, cut back elsewhere and live there for six more months or something. Find a budget that makes both of you happy and stick to that. 

AprilH81

Can you afford to buy a house on just your salary?  If not, you may not have a choice but to either rent or stay with his parents and I agree, a year is enough.

Assuming your FI still owns the business and what state you live in you may not be able to count his income as far as mortgage qualifications.

My BIL started a business about 1.5 years ago (my sister is a SAHM of three kids) and no bank will approve him for a mortgage until he can show 3 years of actual income from the business and a bunch of other requirements.

ETA: After a second read through of your post it sounds like you could be YEARS from purchasing a house and I think it is silly to continue to live with his parents and sacrifice your privacy.

Plus, who is paying/saving for the wedding?  Will that come before or after the house?

Blergbot

I don't know where you live/what rent is like or whether your FI is breaking even on the business, but if he's willing to get a part time job (are you working, btw?) then it sounds like renting may be a good plan. If he's not willing right now can you compromise? Like staying for 6 more months and then renting for a year? How much is this a deal-breaker for you? Would you end your relationship over it?

wandajune6

You need to sit down and talk with FI about it. This is a big deal and something that you both need to come to a compromise on. IMO, this is the type of issue that impacts the decision to get married.

missmarissa14

In the state we live in, you must show 2 years of income history. His Father bought the business in Sept 2012, but it was only transferred to my FI's name a couple months ago so I would be the only one eligible to apply for a loan.

Our wedding is 14 months away. My parents are graciously paying for the vast majority of it.

AprilH81

It wouldn't hurt to talk to a loan officer and see what the specific rules are for your state and find out if you would qualify on your income alone. Even if you don't qualify now they can tell you what you need to have to get approved. Keep in mind the "break even" point for renting vs buying for your area, it may not be smart to buy if you plan on moving in a few years or can only afford a one bedroom house and you plan to have kids soon (and therefore would need more space). If you guys aren't familiar with real estate it can be more expensive that you think since it is more than a down payment. You will have to "prepay" the escrow for property taxes and insurance, account for closing costs, home inspections, moving expenses, utilitity deposits, etc. Even when you go to sell you are on the hook for realtor commission fees (typically 3% of the sell price to each agent), some closing costs, and anything negotiated into the contract with the buyer. Typically real estate is a good long term investment but you need to be careful and it sounds like you guys may not be ready yet. There is no harm in renting an inexpensive apartment (less than you can afford) so you can continue to save for a home. ETA: IE doesn't like paragraphs... Sorry for the block of text.

tcnoble

@missmarissa14 I can sympathize... we have been battling living situations for the last few years. We are both currently residing with our parents - our wedding is a year away (which my parents are paying for). His parents have built a huge shop on their property (for business/racing) and graciously offered to finish out the top 1200 sq. feet for us as an apartment, to live in rent free. Now, I recognized this as VERY generous, because they want us to be able to save up for a house, but initially I was so turned off to the idea. No part of being newlyweds and sharing a backyard with my in-laws appealed to me. It took a lot of discussion but I finally agreed to it. We could rent for a year and then buy a house, but really, renting IS just throwing money away. So if you're afforded the opportunity to save for another year - is it really THAT bad? Of course it isn't ideal, but is it do-able? As other PPs have said, definitely a conversation you and your FI need to have, but I feel your pain!

pinkshorts27

AprilH81 said:

It wouldn't hurt to talk to a loan officer and see what the specific rules are for your state and find out if you would qualify on your income alone. Even if you don't qualify now they can tell you what you need to have to get approved. Keep in mind the "break even" point for renting vs buying for your area, it may not be smart to buy if you plan on moving in a few years or can only afford a one bedroom house and you plan to have kids soon (and therefore would need more space). If you guys aren't familiar with real estate it can be more expensive that you think since it is more than a down payment. You will have to "prepay" the escrow for property taxes and insurance, account for closing costs, home inspections, moving expenses, utilitity deposits, etc. Even when you go to sell you are on the hook for realtor commission fees (typically 3% of the sell price to each agent), some closing costs, and anything negotiated into the contract with the buyer. Typically real estate is a good long term investment but you need to be careful and it sounds like you guys may not be ready yet. There is no harm in renting an inexpensive apartment (less than you can afford) so you can continue to save for a home. ETA: IE doesn't like paragraphs... Sorry for the block of text.

AprilH81, slightly off topic but we had to do a project in our undergraduate class where we compared different apartments and had to figure out what transportation cost was to work, what side costs there were (utilities, etc), and show a comparison chart to suit our needs. Then we had to look at houses and list what we thought was important and then look into all of the costs associate with buying a house. We had to find the breaking even point for a few houses versus apartments and then state what we thought the necessary household income would be for various living situations. I thought it was a great project. I learned soooo much about buying houses and fees. I learned about loans (I've never had one). I learned about credit and credit cards and how interest works.  I thought it was one of my most useful college classes (and least related to my major).  

missmarissa14

Yes, I have a full time job. No, I wouldn't end our relationship over this. My Mom suggested looking into a rent-to-buy option. That is something I know absolutely nothing about but might do some reading on it.

In my prospective, I moved over an hour, to another state to be with him when he got our apartment. I've been very happy and we are now engaged. But I didn't move here to live with someone else's parents. I understand that that it's something we did according to the circumstances but that's why I put a one year time limit on it.

In his prospective, he does not want to throw money away on an apartment. He is willing to overlook the things that come along with not having your own place in order to save money for the time being. --- I just dont know how long the "time being" is. And that's where I'm stuck.

Could I stick it out for another 3, 6 months? Yeah. But I can't keep saying...ok 2 more months, ok 3 more months and so on.

pinkshorts27

missmarissa14 said: Yes, I have a full time job. No, I wouldn't end our relationship over this. My Mom suggested looking into a rent-to-buy option. That is something I know absolutely nothing about but might do some reading on it. In my prospective, I moved over an hour, to another state to be with him when he got our apartment. I've been very happy and we are now engaged. But I didn't move here to live with someone else's parents. I understand that that it's something we did according to the circumstances but that's why I put a one year time limit on it. In his prospective, he does not want to throw money away on an apartment. He is willing to overlook the things that come along with not having your own place in order to save money for the time being. --- I just dont know how long the "time being" is. And that's where I'm stuck. Could I stick it out for another 3, 6 months? Yeah. But I can't keep saying...ok 2 more months, ok 3 more months and so on.


And this is why you need to sit and discuss with him, where he listens to you and you listen to him and you can move forward and make this decision as a couple. This is where a budget and a plan of money savings/month (or week or whatever) is important. This is where you both cut back on (insert typical splurges here) so you can get out faster. 

AprilH81

missmarissa14 said:

Yes, I have a full time job. No, I wouldn't end our relationship over this. My Mom suggested looking into a rent-to-buy option. That is something I know absolutely nothing about but might do some reading on it. In my prospective, I moved over an hour, to another state to be with him when he got our apartment. I've been very happy and we are now engaged. But I didn't move here to live with someone else's parents. I understand that that it's something we did according to the circumstances but that's why I put a one year time limit on it. In his prospective, he does not want to throw money away on an apartment. He is willing to overlook the things that come along with not having your own place in order to save money for the time being. --- I just dont know how long the "time being" is. And that's where I'm stuck. Could I stick it out for another 3, 6 months? Yeah. But I can't keep saying...ok 2 more months, ok 3 more months and so on.

I can see both sides to this becase I bought my first house at 22 and I have never lived in an apartment because once I started looking at apartments I quickly figured out that I could afford a small house for the same amount of money (before the housing market collapsed and they got way more strict about loans).

I would make an appointment to talk to a lender in your area and even see if it is possible for you to purchase within a defined time period that you are comfortable with.  If it is possible if you just hang out with his parents for 6 months (for example) then I would suck it up for the short term before you buy.

If it is going to be longer than you are comfortable with I would get an apartment that you can pay for while still saving money to buy.

It sounds like you could be with them for 2 years from start to finish and unless it is a dire emergency that wouldn't fly with me.

mbross3

It sounds like you already compromised a lot by agreeing to live with his parents for a year! Is your Fi giving any consideration to your feelings in this matter? It honestly sounds like he is pushing for what he wants and what is best for him, and not considering your feelings. I cannot get behind this notion that "renting is just throwing money away". Many people have homes that they rent, and love! You're not throwing money away to have your own home, independence, and to live like an independent adult (the suggestion that renting is throwing money away because there's always the possibility to live at home for free--this strikes me as extremely immature and would be a deal breaker for me- especially after compromising and living with his parents for an entire year!). 

I suggest having a serious conversation with your FI. It sounds like you both have to work on your communication. You are obviously unhappy with continuing to live with his parents (TOTALLY understandable), you need to decide how important this issue is and whether it's a deal breaker. 

missmarissa14

I have saved a decent amount during the past year. He doesn't want to see me use that money for an apartment when it could be used for a house. I get that. I may use SOME of it but certainly not a large amount of it for an apartment.
He also has money put away in a fund. Between what I saved and the money in his fund (plus wedding gift money) we would be fine for a down payment on a house.

To him....If an apartment is $12,000 for the year....that's $12k that could have went into a house. Which I totally understand but like @mbross3 said....paying for a place is essentially for your own privacy, independence etc....

He is limited because he has to pay his Father back. He doesn't WANT to live with his parents but he would rather do that than an apartment and wants to wait until we can get a house.

I considered getting an apartment by myself. But knowing he disagrees makes me hesitant. I know we need to talk and dig deeper to come up with something that we will both be satisfied with. I just wish I knew what that was.

Thank you ladies for your input.

tcnoble

@missmarissa14 I think our FI's could be the same person.... haha if you guys DO have the money to put a down payment on house, I would also have an issue with him wanting to stay living at his parent's house. Mine wanted to live in his parent's basement... which was NOT happening so at least we got the shop/apartment situation. I hope you guys can come to a mutual agreement!!

@mrboss3 I hardly see that as an immature decision - more like a financially responsible one. I'm not talking about living with parents indefinietly, as a freebie, mooching because you can. I'm saying if you are saving for a down payment on a house, $12k on rent for an apartment would (likely) be much better put to use towards that down payment. 

AprilH81

missmarissa14 said:

I have saved a decent amount during the past year. He doesn't want to see me use that money for an apartment when it could be used for a house. I get that. I may use SOME of it but certainly not a large amount of it for an apartment. He also has money put away in a fund. Between what I saved and the money in his fund (plus wedding gift money) we would be fine for a down payment on a house. To him....If an apartment is $12,000 for the year....that's $12k that could have went into a house. Which I totally understand but like @mbross3 said....paying for a place is essentially for your own privacy, independence etc.... He is limited because he has to pay his Father back. He doesn't WANT to live with his parents but he would rather do that than an apartment and wants to wait until we can get a house. I considered getting an apartment by myself. But knowing he disagrees makes me hesitant. I know we need to talk and dig deeper to come up with something that we will both be satisfied with. I just wish I knew what that was. Thank you ladies for your input.

What about moving in with a friend or get an apartment with a friend?  You still wouldn't have complete privacy but at least you wouldn't be with his parents.

missmarissa14

I moved almost 2 hours away from where I am from. The friends that I have made either live with other people/boyfriends or in a 1 - bedroom apartment....

phira

I think that it might be worthwhile to revisit (with your fiance) the agreement to live with his parents.

The big issue right now is that you agreed to live with his parents for a year, and now the year is up. Honestly, I'd say, "Maybe do another year, or another 6 months," but it sounds like you don't trust your fiance to follow through and be okay finding an apartment with you. And, well, why should you? He didn't follow through the first time.

This isn't a deal-breaker in my eyes, but it's definitely something that you need to talk about. He needs to say what he really wants. It sounds (to me) like he wants to wait until you two can buy a house before moving out, skipping a rental situation entirely. If that is the case, then you need to talk ASAP about how long that would be, and where you'd be looking for a house, etc. If not, then you need to pick a new move out date and he has to stick with it and not be all, "WAH WAH WAH waste of money!"

I mean, yes, I feel like I'm wasting ALL the money on rent, but LIFE, man. It's LIFE.

BMoreBride6

I get that every situation is different, but I'm honestly always a little bit suspect of grown men who would prefer to live with mom and dad (especially with their fiance) when there is a potential other option.  Even if it is a very small place, I think you guys need to have a long talk about expectations. 

missmarissa14

@Bmorebride6 it's not that he necessarily prefers this living situation but because of paying his Dad back there is not a lot of extra income for him.

jessiray

phira said:

I think that it might be worthwhile to revisit (with your fiance) the agreement to live with his parents.

The big issue right now is that you agreed to live with his parents for a year, and now the year is up. Honestly, I'd say, "Maybe do another year, or another 6 months," but it sounds like you don't trust your fiance to follow through and be okay finding an apartment with you. And, well, why should you? He didn't follow through the first time.

This isn't a deal-breaker in my eyes, but it's definitely something that you need to talk about. He needs to say what he really wants. It sounds (to me) like he wants to wait until you two can buy a house before moving out, skipping a rental situation entirely. If that is the case, then you need to talk ASAP about how long that would be, and where you'd be looking for a house, etc. If not, then you need to pick a new move out date and he has to stick with it and not be all, "WAH WAH WAH waste of money!"

I mean, yes, I feel like I'm wasting ALL the money on rent, but LIFE, man. It's LIFE.

I completely agree with @phira. My FI and I are renting right now, and he really would prefer to get a house because it actually might be cheaper than paying rent... but we're moving within the next 2-3 years,and then after that we'll be moving again in 2-3 years, so it's going to be 5-6 years minimum before we can even think about a house, but it is what it is. I think you really need to sit down with your FI and work out a timeline, and then plan for what will happen if that timeline is not met or derailed. Although renting can be seen as a waste of money, wouldn't renting and being on your own be worth the money if it keeps you happy and sane? No matter how much you might love your  FMIL and FFIL, living with future in-laws can be difficult...

mbross3

tcnoble said:

@missmarissa14 I think our FI's could be the same person.... haha if you guys DO have the money to put a down payment on house, I would also have an issue with him wanting to stay living at his parent's house. Mine wanted to live in his parent's basement... which was NOT happening so at least we got the shop/apartment situation. I hope you guys can come to a mutual agreement!!

@mrboss3 I hardly see that as an immature decision - more like a financially responsible one. I'm not talking about living with parents indefinietly, as a freebie, mooching because you can. I'm saying if you are saving for a down payment on a house, $12k on rent for an apartment would (likely) be much better put to use towards that down payment. 

@tcnoble: Please don't think I'm commenting on your relationship or your situation. I know nothing about you and was voicing my opinion based on the OP and my experiences. What I mean is that there are some situations that force people to move back in with their parents, and this really sucks. What I meant by immature is that it seems like he is not following through on what he said (which was one year living with his parents) and is not listening to what OP wants and what is important to her. Parents are great and I have of course accepted help from my own (in college), but I firmly believe that if you are an adult with the capability to live on your own and take care of yourself, that the decision to continue to live with your parents is an immature decision to make. 

Sometimes we all need that boost, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it sounds like OP and her FI have enough to take care of themselves (it sounds like they have enough for a down payment and that OP really does not want to continue to live with her FI's parents) and to continue to live with parents just because you don't want to pay rent is just not a mature decision. Paying rent on an apartment is part of living, it sucks sometimes but you're paying for a home, for privacy, for freedom and independence and to be able to live alone or with your SO (or roommates or whatever) and that is NOT wasting money, that is living life. *sigh* sometimes being an adult is hard. 

missmarissa14

It is hard. Unfortunately becuase of paying his Father back he cannot pay towards an apartment. He wants to get a part time job to supplement his income but can only work certain hours. I have never had to pay for an apartment by MYSELF which honestly sounds a little intimidating but I wouldn't take an apartment that's over my budget.

So for example I told my FI today that my BM's and I are going to all meet in another city next month (where I went to college) and have a girls weekend to go out to dinner, get drinks and then go to Alfred Angelo the next day. I WOULD HAVE done this in my own town but since I don't have my own place.....I'm certainly not inviting my friends to stay at my IL's! Yes, this is small and maybe trivial but this is a prime example needing my own place. So yeah, maybe an apartment can be seen as a waste of money or not as financially ideal as a house but THIS is the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

AprilH81

missmarissa14 said:

It is hard. Unfortunately becuase of paying his Father back he cannot pay towards an apartment. He wants to get a part time job to supplement his income but can only work certain hours. I have never had to pay for an apartment by MYSELF which honestly sounds a little intimidating but I wouldn't take an apartment that's over my budget. So for example I told my FI today that my BM's and I are going to all meet in another city next month (where I went to college) and have a girls weekend to go out to dinner, get drinks and then go to Alfred Angelo the next day. I WOULD HAVE done this in my own town but since I don't have my own place.....I'm certainly not inviting my friends to stay at my IL's! Yes, this is small and maybe trivial but this is a prime example needing my own place. So yeah, maybe an apartment can be seen as a waste of money or not as financially ideal as a house but THIS is the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

Can you elaborate on exactly what the living situation is now (basement apartment, "regular" bedroom) and what the day to day experience is?  Do you cook your own meals and buy your own groceries?  Do you alternate cooking with the FIL's?

What have you given up to live there (inviting friends over, privacy, etc.)?

Writing all that down for us can help us with more specific advice and if you show your FI it can show HIM what you guys are missing out on in black and white.  

Another way of talking to him is not just about the COST of an apartment but the VALUE of an apartment.  Yes, you will be "throwing away" money on rent but you get privacy, personal space, ability to have friends over, no more sharing a kitchen, etc.

missmarissa14

We have our own bathroom, bedroom, and living room (front room of the house....typically a "formal living room" in other homes.) We share a kitchen. Because we have our own bathroom and living room it does make it a little more manageable.

HAHA.... the thing about cooking. Well I LOVE to cook. His parents do not. It seems like everyone is on different schedules and they don't do family dinners. So I go to the grocery store, I buy my own stuff and will buy stuff to make for him and I. Then, if his Mom or Dad happen to be around I feel like an asshole becuase I only have enough to make for my FI and I. Sometimes we plan a Sunday meal but it's not like I get in touch with his parents every day of the week to find out what they are doing for dinner.

His Mom doesn't work and she babysits for my future SIL. By babysitting I mean: she watches the 2 year old during the day but she has the 6 month old about 5 days a week (including nights.) I love them they are so cute. BUT my FI wants kids badly and for the LOVE OF GOD I want my peace and quiet before that happens! Not that I can't hear the TV because the baby is crying.

Yeah, I wish I could have friends over. I wish I could invite my parents up and make them a nice dinner. I would give my left arm to have my -own- kitchen again and my -own- organized space.

I think to him because it's his family and his parents it's easier. Don't get me wrong, they have accepted me as one of their own and I feel totally comfortable being in their home. But having a place to call my own (ideally our own) is so incredibly important because well....let's face it we are adults and I need to keep my independence and privacy.

AprilH81

We have our own bathroom, bedroom, and living room (front room of the house....typically a "formal living room" in other homes.) We share a kitchen. Because we have our own bathroom and living room it does make it a little more manageable. HAHA.... the thing about cooking. Well I LOVE to cook. His parents do not. It seems like everyone is on different schedules and they don't do family dinners. So I go to the grocery store, I buy my own stuff and will buy stuff to make for him and I. Then, if his Mom or Dad happen to be around I feel like an asshole becuase I only have enough to make for my FI and I. Sometimes we plan a Sunday meal but it's not like I get in touch with his parents every day of the week to find out what they are doing for dinner. His Mom doesn't work and she babysits for my future SIL. By babysitting I mean: she watches the 2 year old during the day but she has the 6 month old about 5 days a week (including nights.) I love them they are so cute. BUT my FI wants kids badly and for the LOVE OF GOD I want my peace and quiet before that happens! Not that I can't hear the TV because the baby is crying. Yeah, I wish I could have friends over. I wish I could invite my parents up and make them a nice dinner. I would give my left arm to have my -own- kitchen again and my -own- organized space. I think to him because it's his family and his parents it's easier. Don't get me wrong, they have accepted me as one of their own and I feel totally comfortable being in their home. But having a place to call my own (ideally our own) is so incredibly important because well....let's face it we are adults and I need to keep my independence and privacy.

**Stuck in Box***

Well it does seem like you have a good setup as far as living with parents goes...  It could be a lot worse!

I would still write down a list of items that you feel like you guys are sacrificing by continuing to live with his parents.  I agree that he probably comfortable there since it is HIS parents, so try to have him imagine what it would be like if the roles were reversed.  I would also make it a point to explain that cost=/=value and sometimes spending money is work more than it actually costs (the value of your privacy and personal space is higher than the cost of the apartment).

tcnoble

@mbross3 hard indeed!! Thank you for your kind response!

missmarissa14

I appreciate everyone's thoughts. I will definitely take this advice back to him.

Maybe TMI but we have even had to adjust our sex life. Sometimes I feel like a teenager sneaking around lol.

Like I said, I moved an hour and a half away to live with him in our apartment. If I still lived in the same town and this situation came up I probably would've just moved back with my own parents or a place with a friend. But I started a career and a life here so what was I going to do? I've been in the area for 2 years now so this area does feel like home now. I just need a place of our own again to make it complete