XP from the Nest...Marital Bumps in the Road

MsChicagoFan

Sorry for posting this here. I know this is for "Brides"...I'm a newlywed, and I have always found that the girls on the Knot are good for straightforward advice. I feel like my girlfriends will always just "be on my side" and I'm looking for real advice and not just "You Go Girl".

My DH and I have been together for over 5 years, and are recently married (6 mos). When we first moved in together, he was the "neat freak" and we split responsibilities of the home about 70/30 (70 him, 30 me). I've always done all the cooking and we would grocery shop and do most "every day" things together. Then he started getting upset that he was doing most things, and so I made an effort to make things more 50/50. 

I'm not sure when it started, but somewhere along the way, more and more responsibilities started falling on me. I do all the grocery shopping, cooking, lunch-making, deep cleaning, dusting, etc. It has even gotten to the point where he "forgets" to feed the dogs! To make things worse, he has gotten in to the habit of constantly being on his computer before and after dinner. He refuses to just watch TV with me, saying that it bores him. I've asked him to suggest other activities, but he just wants to be on his computer surfing the internet. It hurts me because I feel that he is isolating himself from me, even when we are in the same room.

I have explained to him (and I really feel this way) that it's not about who has "more" responsibility, but rather, how mindful we are of each other's needs, our home, etc. 

I think what bothers me about our day-to-day, is that so many of the things I do are about keeping our home/marriage intact, whereas I feel as if he is on his own path just doing what he needs to do for himself and not our partnership. 

Today when we talked about it, he asked me if I could start "reminding" him when there are things I want done. However, I want the new habit to be mindfulness. At almost 30 years old, I feel like I should not have to remind him that the bathroom needs cleaning, or that it would be nice if he'd pick up dinner every once in a while. And besides, I am his wife, not his mother.

Is there any way to get my DH to practice being mindful without having to be a nag?

AprilH81

This may be too much hand holding for your taste, but do you have a joint calendar app on your phones?  Can you program reminders for chores "Monday 7:00pm-H cleans bathroom and MsChicagofan does laundry" A written chart would also work...

It is normal that gradually one person takes over some stuff, but it is a very reasonable to expect that one person should not have to do everything.  An adult should not have to  be reminded to feed the dogs.

The "chores" are a different issue from the computer time in my mind.  The chores are him  being lazy and the laptop usage is him checking out.  No advice for that one because H and I are bad about being on our phones/laptops when we are in the same room together.

Maggie0829

If he has asked you to remind him then remind him.  My H is very forgetful and easily distracted so I constantly have to remind him to pay his one loan and to clean the bathrooms or to move towels from the washer to the dryer.  That is just the way he is.  I too would love it for those things to become a habit but they won't because that is not how he is.  And he too is 30.  He doesn't see the house upkeep the way I do.  How I see our house as constantly needing to be clean and tidied up, he sees it as perfectly fine and that nothing really needs to be done, which is why he doesn't really jump up and start doing things on his own accord.  He will when he thinks something really needs to be cleaned, but many times I just have to ask him to help.

It sounds like your H has become complacent.  This does happen to people after the whole "newlywed" glow goes away.  It is important to spend time together but it is also important to do things separately as well.  H and I do not spend every night together.  A lot of the time we do our own thing.  It is normal.  He will play video games while I bake or watch TV upstairs.  I never feel like he is neglecting me because we do hang out some evenings if there is a movie we want to watch together or if Walking Dead is on.  But most of the time we come home from work, talk about our day and then do our own thing.

What if the two of you sat down and made a list of "chores" that need to be done around the house and post it on your fridge?  Also, you two should decide together on "date nights".  Those are the nights that you two will hang out together with no electronics (computers or phones) in the way. You could pick one or two nights during the work week and make a point of planning something for those nights.

But as someone who has been in your shoes, I have learned that I need to accept my H for who he is and to know that if I want him to do something then I need to ask him.  If I wait around for him to do it of his own accord then all that will happen is I will get irritated and mad and then blow up because whatever it is still isn't done.  Reminding your H about things is not being a nag, especially if he asked you to remind him.

HisGirlFriday13

MsChicagoFan said:

Sorry for posting this here. I know this is for "Brides"...I'm a newlywed, and I have always found that the girls on the Knot are good for straightforward advice. I feel like my girlfriends will always just "be on my side" and I'm looking for real advice and not just "You Go Girl".

My DH and I have been together for over 5 years, and are recently married (6 mos). When we first moved in together, he was the "neat freak" and we split responsibilities of the home about 70/30 (70 him, 30 me). I've always done all the cooking and we would grocery shop and do most "every day" things together. Then he started getting upset that he was doing most things, and so I made an effort to make things more 50/50. 

I'm not sure when it started, but somewhere along the way, more and more responsibilities started falling on me. I do all the grocery shopping, cooking, lunch-making, deep cleaning, dusting, etc. It has even gotten to the point where he "forgets" to feed the dogs! To make things worse, he has gotten in to the habit of constantly being on his computer before and after dinner. He refuses to just watch TV with me, saying that it bores him. I've asked him to suggest other activities, but he just wants to be on his computer surfing the internet. It hurts me because I feel that he is isolating himself from me, even when we are in the same room.

I have explained to him (and I really feel this way) that it's not about who has "more" responsibility, but rather, how mindful we are of each other's needs, our home, etc. 

I think what bothers me about our day-to-day, is that so many of the things I do are about keeping our home/marriage intact, whereas I feel as if he is on his own path just doing what he needs to do for himself and not our partnership. 

Today when we talked about it, he asked me if I could start "reminding" him when there are things I want done. However, I want the new habit to be mindfulness. At almost 30 years old, I feel like I should not have to remind him that the bathroom needs cleaning, or that it would be nice if he'd pick up dinner every once in a while. And besides, I am his wife, not his mother.

Is there any way to get my DH to practice being mindful without having to be a nag?

The bolded part concerns me. If this is a change in his behaviour -- like you two used to watch TV together and now you don't because it 'bores' him and he'd rather be on his computer -- that's a red flag.

I agree with PPs that some men need to be reminded about things, but it sounds like your DH didn't used to be, and now is. What is he doing on his computer all the time? Surfing the internet? Playing online games? Talking on chat forums? 

I think you need to have a sit-down, come-to-Jesus conversation with him about what you each want and what you expect in a relationship and how you're going to work to achieve those goals. 

If he used to be more involved in house upkeep and maintenance, and in your overall relationship, a change like this is worrisome and needs to be looked into further.

(Also, how do you 'forget' to feed a dog?? My parents' dog will nag you until you feed her!)

Inkdancer

PPs are wise and you should listen to them.

What has been helpful for me and FI recently is twofold:

First, I made a chore schedule. I explained that it was to help me feel less overwhelmed, and also help me prioritize (which is true, but it also reminds FI of all the things that need to be done.)

Also, I found an app called Honeydew that I love. It is a shared To-Do list, so you both get the app on your phone and create a shared account. Then you can both add to it and remove things from it. You can make any category you want... so we have a schedule for our cat's meds so we don't have to worry about whether or not somebody gave them to him, a grocery list, a list of calls we need to make, and other little reminders. That shows both of us what needs to be done, so we're both accountable for making them happen.

MsChicagoFan

Thank you all for the great advice - I knew this would be a good place to turn. I will start by making a list, maybe downloading the app or creating a Google calendar. 

@HisGirlFriday, he spends a lot of time on Reddit, and other websites reading news articles. I'm not concerned that he's unfaithful or doing anything on the computer he shouldn't be. I am concerned that he no longer enjoys doing what we used to do. 

After reading some of the comments, I really don't think it's the chores that bother me so much as it is the lack of mindfulness. i.e. Last night he pulled a wet sweater out of the wash that he didn't want to put in the dryer and laid it on top of my clean (dry) laundry...or I will say "I am really craving a latte from Starbucks" and instead of thinking to pick one up, he just ignores it. 

I am thinking about, in addition to the chores list, putting a reminder on the refrigerator or somewhere we always look that says "What have you done for your marriage today?" or "What have you done for your partner today?" something like that as a reminder to both of us that it is the little things that we do to make each other's lives easier that can really make a marriage. That may sound silly, but I think that if DH considered that question every day, it would be a great exercise in mindfulness. Thoughts?

wandajune6

I agree- the PPs are very wise!

The first thing that came to mind was the question of what he's doing online. If he's found something that takes all of his attention, maybe he needs to wean himself off a bit.

As for sharing responsibilities, there's a balance. I absolutely hate reminding FI to do stuff around the house- I feel like I'm nagging. There are also things that he gets ticked at me for not doing. We found that sharing apps doesn't work (I love the idea of apps like Honeydew but he would never use it). Instead, I rely on well-synched digital calendars. Bills get a calendar event (more easily snoozed if you're out at night). Annoying chores that happen on a schedule reminders. Heck, even date nights and wedding planning gets reminders.

For regular chores, we also follow a tradition my parents started when I was little: on a regular basis (daily? weekly? whatever?) we set a timer for 15 minutes, turn on VERY loud music that we love, and clean/do chores/etc. until the timer goes off. We feel like we're both doing our "share," we're working very diligently because it's such a small time period, and we can make a bit of a game out of it.

Daily things like dinner we are still fine-tuning!

alexnicole452647

I would have to agree with this, my fiance and I live together for about a year now and I am constantly asking him for help around the house.  I try ask him in a positive way instead of demanding.  

singinchick13

Does he share things that he reads with you? I ask because FI does read a lot online but he definitely tells me about things he finds interesting. Maybe you would feel more connected if he could share some articles that interest him and find some common ground there if that is something you could see yourself enjoying as well. 

The chore thing happens at some point with everyone I think, but forgetting to feed a pet is a bit much. Perhaps he just loses track of time and does not realize he forgot to do something that should have been done hours ago? I'm not sure. I think doing things together or having assigned tasks is a great idea. When you clean together it doesn't seem like as much of a chore.

I think establishing ownership/responsibility over certain tasks should yield better results without constantly having to remind him or feel like you're nagging.

Maggie0829

MsChicagoFan said:

Thank you all for the great advice - I knew this would be a good place to turn. I will start by making a list, maybe downloading the app or creating a Google calendar. 

@HisGirlFriday, he spends a lot of time on Reddit, and other websites reading news articles. I'm not concerned that he's unfaithful or doing anything on the computer he shouldn't be. I am concerned that he no longer enjoys doing what we used to do. 

After reading some of the comments, I really don't think it's the chores that bother me so much as it is the lack of mindfulness. i.e. Last night he pulled a wet sweater out of the wash that he didn't want to put in the dryer and laid it on top of my clean (dry) laundry...or I will say "I am really craving a latte from Starbucks" and instead of thinking to pick one up, he just ignores it. 

I am thinking about, in addition to the chores list, putting a reminder on the refrigerator or somewhere we always look that says "What have you done for your marriage today?" or "What have you done for your partner today?" something like that as a reminder to both of us that it is the little things that we do to make each other's lives easier that can really make a marriage. That may sound silly, but I think that if DH considered that question every day, it would be a great exercise in mindfulness. Thoughts?

I'm sorry but the sweater thing and him not picking you up a latte just because you said that you were in the mood for one is not a big deal, like at all, and is kind of nit picky in my opinion.  Maybe he really wasn't thinking when he put the wet sweater on the dry clothes.  Honestly, I have done dumb things like that as well.  And if you really wanted him to get you a latte then you ask "hey can you pick me up a latte?"  By you expecting these things from him and him not following through because he really doesn't know that by you saying "man I feel like a latte" really means "get me a latte" then you are setting yourself up to just get irritated and mad at him.  And he really has no clue why you are mad.  Your H is not a mind reader.  If you want something then you have to say something.

I mean, I really don't know your situation except for what you have written here, but it sounds like you are expecting things from him and expecting him to just know what you want rather then having a conversation with him.  You will be spending the rest of your life with this person.  You cannot seriously expect that you will be staring into each others eyes every night.

And I just want to say that both H and I have forgotten to feed our dog.  We feed her around 7pm (we also feed her in the morning but that is part of my morning routine so I never forget them) and sometimes we are watching TV or doing something else and we turn around and it is 8:30 or 9pm and we think "crap, we forgot to feed Gracie!"  Our dog is not one to bother us when it is meal time so for us to forget is kind of easy sometimes.

happymellow

wandajune6 said:

I agree- the PPs are very wise!

The first thing that came to mind was the question of what he's doing online. If he's found something that takes all of his attention, maybe he needs to wean himself off a bit.

As for sharing responsibilities, there's a balance. I absolutely hate reminding FI to do stuff around the house- I feel like I'm nagging. There are also things that he gets ticked at me for not doing. We found that sharing apps doesn't work (I love the idea of apps like Honeydew but he would never use it). Instead, I rely on well-synched digital calendars. Bills get a calendar event (more easily snoozed if you're out at night). Annoying chores that happen on a schedule reminders. Heck, even date nights and wedding planning gets reminders.

For regular chores, we also follow a tradition my parents started when I was little: on a regular basis (daily? weekly? whatever?) we set a timer for 15 minutes, turn on VERY loud music that we love, and clean/do chores/etc. until the timer goes off. We feel like we're both doing our "share," we're working very diligently because it's such a small time period, and we can make a bit of a game out of it.

Daily things like dinner we are still fine-tuning!

I'm not married yet, but I agree with everything you said.  Especially the last chore tip.  I've been doing that one for years.  Makes it more fun to turn on the timer, fun music and have at it until the timer goes off.

FiancB

This is kind of growing into a problem for us as well. I am a MUCH better cook so I do all of that (we do pick up subs and go out about once a week each) but it seems like I get more and more housework too. I don't mind too much right now because I'm a college student and I'm home a lot, but I don't want it to turn into habit once that isn't the case anymore. FI does pitch in a fair bit but I think he kind of overestimates how much time he spends on the house while underestimating what I spend. 

It helps that FI is a lot neater than I am. I've decided to keep it under control by spending about 20-30 minutes each day picking up around the house. It's enough to keep things under control and looking nice while doing my part but it does come to a point where it gets away on me and then he joins in with me for a deep clean. It works for us- I don't mind the day to day stuff so much while I hate the serious cleaning and he's the opposite. 

I think there comes a point where you settle into a routine where you each tend to pick up different chores. Just be careful not to slip into just doing everything yourself. 

suburbanstepmom

I kind of have a different perspective on the attention thing (not really the chores thing because FI and future SS are kind of piggies so I do all the chores because I'm a bit OCD about cleanliness, and it doesn't bother me) ...<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I am kind of in the same boat as your DH is, actually. I am in no way "checking out" of my relationship HOWEVER I have zero-zip-zilch-nada interest in television. I cannot make myself sit still for 45 minutes or an hour to watch television because it just cannot keep my attention. I always have to be doing something else. Whether it's checking emails on my phone, reading a magazine, paying bills, etc etc. This drives my FI nutso because he says he feels like I am 'ignoring' him. (Even though if we were watching TV we wouldn't be talking or something anyway...)

I don't have a solution for you, unfortunately. This is still something FI and I are working through. I have made efforts to sit down and watch TV with him but I get so fidgety that eventually he just tells me to go do something. haha! It’s all a matter of just being accepting, as some PPs stated, of who your DH is. It obviously isn’t the same as you are, but you love him and married him. So, if he needs to spend some time zoning out on the computer then that is what it is, IMO.

MsChicagoFan

hat I decided to do after collecting some advice was this:

I wrote my husband a long e-mail. To a woman, I think that seems really impersonal, but often if I *literally* spell things out for my husband, he will get the picture. 

I made a chore chart that detailed things that need to be done every day, every week, every other week, and every month. I split things up fairly equally. I will still do most of the cooking, and he will still do most of the dish washing. Everything else should be about 50/50.

I didn't really *want* to make a chore chart, but what I realized is this: I have been doing 'everything' by myself for so long, that my husband really doesn't understand/know what it takes to keep our home the way we like it. By giving him a list, it takes away the part I hate worst - constantly having to remind him or ask him to do things. I think the key is to remember that your husband may be more than happy to do things, he might just not really know what to do.

In terms of mindfulness, I asked for a couple of parameters (I'm finding that asking for what I want is the key...):

-One hour of no screen time a night - for both of us! This can be either the hour before bed or the first hour we are both home

-One night/week we will meet for a drink after work by our apartment to decompress and spend quality time together outside the house

-We will be keeping a note on the refrigerator or somewhere else that says "What have you done for your partner today?" to remind us to do the little things that make each other happy. 

He also agreed to pick up one or two shows that we can both enjoy. Since we used to watch TV together, it isn't that he has NO interest in TV, it is just that he has more interest in his computer. This seems to be a good compromise for us. 

I will report back, but I have a feeling this will help - at least a little!

Inkdancer

Good luck! It sounds like communicating this with him could help, and I hope it works wonders!

grumbledore

In general, I would say if someone needs a reminder and then they are good, then I don't think that's a huge deal - but in this case, he was fine doing things without being told and now he isn't and that leads me to believe there might be other issues at play.

Did you and your DH do premarital counseling at all?  If so, did you talk about this kind of stuff?  if so, I would use that as a launching point for another discussion.  

If not, I would try the reminders for a short period and see if it works - if he does his part with a tiny reminder, then I'd say you are better off than a lot of people.  If he still doesn't, then I would dig deeper and try to figure out the real problem.

Have there been any significant changes in the relationship since the wedding?

grumbledore

singinchick13 said:

Does he share things that he reads with you? I ask because FI does read a lot online but he definitely tells me about things he finds interesting. Maybe you would feel more connected if he could share some articles that interest him and find some common ground there if that is something you could see yourself enjoying as well. 

The chore thing happens at some point with everyone I think, but forgetting to feed a pet is a bit much. Perhaps he just loses track of time and does not realize he forgot to do something that should have been done hours ago? I'm not sure. I think doing things together or having assigned tasks is a great idea. When you clean together it doesn't seem like as much of a chore.

I think establishing ownership/responsibility over certain tasks should yield better results without constantly having to remind him or feel like you're nagging.

I agree strongly with the bolded - my FI is an information junkie, but he's constantly telling me about all the random stuff he is reading about, so it never really feels like he's checked out.

pumpkinsandturkeys

I don't understand why you can't just say, "Hey, H -- do you mind doing X while I do Y?"

You may not want to have to actively ask, but sometimes, you have to. And he's probably a little burned out from doing the majority of the chores for 5 years and is enjoying not having the bulk of it on his shoulders anymore. I'm not saying that means he gets to sit back and do nothing, but he's probably not going to be as proactive about it as he used to be.

edandy

I have a pair of friends exactly like this......who like Chicago......

I suggest counseling. I think it's important even in almost perfect relationships. I also suggest talking to each other instead of expecting telepathy. Also when he's on his damn computer unplug it and force him to take a walk with you. Sometimes  (always) you have to be very upfront about what you want, or you will never get it. Especially if your husband is like my friend's husband (clueless)

Bubblegum5586

I have been married 6 months as well, lived together for 4 years and together for 8 years, When we first moved in together was the biggest transition. But what I learned was that everyone has different levels of cleanliness. What I think needs to get clean, hubby says its fine (this also applied to when I had roommates). So knowing that, I know that hubby is unlikely to just clean things (unless it gets real bad!) but if all I have to do is just ask him nicely once and he does it... to me that is fine.

Also, on weeknights we get home 3-4 hours apart, which makes it hard to spend a lot of time together at night, plus we are pretty tired from the day. We love TV and have watched so many shows together, and that to us is great down time. We cuddle on the couch and have a drink and watch a few episodes. We just finished 5 seasons of Breaking Bad and just started True Detective! (and new seasons of Californication and Game of Thrones are starting soon!)