PPD or not?

LadyMillil

I heard something interesting about my sister's upcoming wedding. They found out that the officiant they have chosen can not legally perform marriages in their province. The wedding is in 5 months so they have enough time to find someone that could legally marry them. Instead of doing that, they have decided that they will say the vows in front of the witness with a different officiant the night before the wedding and sign the papers. The papers will be dated for the following day (apparently this second officiant is ok with that…). When they have the "ceremony" the following day the original officiant will officiate. I don't think they are telling everyone that they legal stuff was done the day before. Every wedding I've been to the couple has signed the papers during the ceremony, so the guests will notice that doesn't happen. I was already on the fence about attending the wedding for several reasons - she kicked me out of the BP, the ceremony is filled with everything I'm allergic to, 2.5 hour unhosted gap in the middle of nowhere Ontario (no bar or restaurant less than a 20 minute drive from ceremony/reception site), and significant cost for me to travel across the country - but the fact that they have decided to legally get married the night before the wedding is really putting me off. When I told her months ago that I might not be able to attend because I've already used all my vacation days for my wedding, she spent 30 minutes crying to me on the phone about how it was really important that I was there to see her get married, but I'm not really going to see that, am I?

manateehugger

cmfarr said:

I heard something interesting about my sister's upcoming wedding. They found out that the officiant they have chosen can not legally perform marriages in their province. The wedding is in 5 months so they have enough time to find someone that could legally marry them. Instead of doing that, they have decided that they will say the vows in front of the witness with a different officiant the night before the wedding and sign the papers. The papers will be dated for the following day (apparently this second officiant is ok with that…). When they have the "ceremony" the following day the original officiant will officiate. I don't think they are telling everyone that they legal stuff was done the day before. Every wedding I've been to the couple has signed the papers during the ceremony, so the guests will notice that doesn't happen. I was already on the fence about attending the wedding for several reasons - she kicked me out of the BP, the ceremony is filled with everything I'm allergic to, 2.5 hour unhosted gap in the middle of nowhere Ontario (no bar or restaurant less than a 20 minute drive from ceremony/reception site), and significant cost for me to travel across the country - but the fact that they have decided to legally get married the night before the wedding is really putting me off. When I told her months ago that I might not be able to attend because I've already used all my vacation days for my wedding, she spent 30 minutes crying to me on the phone about how it was really important that I was there to see her get married, but I'm not really going to see that, am I?

First Bolded - that doesn't sound legal...

Second Bolded - I've only seen the certificate signed in front of the guests once, and it was done as their version of the unity ceremony (mothers were witnesses). 

Third Bolded - Sorry your sister is rude and hurtful

Can they not ask their officiant to become ordained in Ontario? This whole thing sounds ridiculous to me. 

Also, I'm sorry you and your sister have such a strained relationship. I'd focus on what kind of relationship you'll have with her in the future and less about the wedding at this point. I'd imagine missing her wedding would be a huge blow to your relationship with her. 

ETA: My last sentence is a little unfair since she already committed a huge blow by kicking you out (sorry about that). But, still, do some soul searching on what your future relationship looks like. 

misshart00

This sounds illegal. Why can't the officiant the night before marry them during their wedding instead?

LadyMillil

PDKH said:

cmfarr said:

I heard something interesting about my sister's upcoming wedding. They found out that the officiant they have chosen can not legally perform marriages in their province. The wedding is in 5 months so they have enough time to find someone that could legally marry them. Instead of doing that, they have decided that they will say the vows in front of the witness with a different officiant the night before the wedding and sign the papers. The papers will be dated for the following day (apparently this second officiant is ok with that…). When they have the "ceremony" the following day the original officiant will officiate. I don't think they are telling everyone that they legal stuff was done the day before. Every wedding I've been to the couple has signed the papers during the ceremony, so the guests will notice that doesn't happen. I was already on the fence about attending the wedding for several reasons - she kicked me out of the BP, the ceremony is filled with everything I'm allergic to, 2.5 hour unhosted gap in the middle of nowhere Ontario (no bar or restaurant less than a 20 minute drive from ceremony/reception site), and significant cost for me to travel across the country - but the fact that they have decided to legally get married the night before the wedding is really putting me off. When I told her months ago that I might not be able to attend because I've already used all my vacation days for my wedding, she spent 30 minutes crying to me on the phone about how it was really important that I was there to see her get married, but I'm not really going to see that, am I?

First Bolded - that doesn't sound legal...

Second Bolded - I've only seen the certificate signed in front of the guests once, and it was done as their version of the unity ceremony (mothers were witnesses). 

Third Bolded - Sorry your sister is rude and hurtful

Can they not ask their officiant to become ordained in Ontario? This whole thing sounds ridiculous to me. 

Also, I'm sorry you and your sister have such a strained relationship. I'd focus on what kind of relationship you'll have with her in the future and less about the wedding at this point. I'd imagine missing her wedding would be a huge blow to your relationship with her. 

ETA: My last sentence is a little unfair since she already committed a huge blow by kicking you out (sorry about that). But, still, do some soul searching on what your future relationship looks like. 

It's common to sign the papers during the ceremony in Canada. I was telling my mom that my American friends at work think it's weird, and my mom thought it was weird that all the guests don't typically witness the signing of the papers in the US.

Unless they are planning to do it at midnight, I doubt what they're planning is legal. I also don't understand why they don't just use the second officiant for the ceremony. They now have to pay 2 officiants. In Ontario marriage ceremonies can only be performed by people licensed by the government, so I am not sure if the officiant they are using at the "wedding" can be licensed at all/in time.

natswild

unfortunately, in Canada, it's not possible to get online ordinations done, not accepted by the government. It is possible to have clergy from another province get dispensation from the government to perform marriages, though.

MobKaz

How hard would it be to find an officiant that CAN perform the ceremony in their province?  They have 5 months,

LadyMillil

@mobkaz It took me less than a week to find my officiant in their area, and I live across the country.

HisGirlFriday13

I'm also American, so the whole signing the papers thing is unusual to me, too, but that's neither here nor there.

What she is doing doesn't at all sound legal, and what's more, it sounds pretty terrible.

I wouldn't blame you if you decided not to attend, but you do have to think about what impact this will have on your relationship going forward. She sounds like she's been pretty rude to you, so it's understandable that you're angry, but it also seems like your sister will hold it against you forever if you don't attend her wedding, so there is that.

lc07

Why can't the "real" officiant come to the ceremony and co-officiate with the person they've already chosen to perform the ceremony so that it can be legal at the actual ceremony?

LondonLisa

Where I am from (Britain) the papers are also signed during the ceremony. I would definitely notice if that didn't happen during the ceremony and find it strange.

I define a PPD as a wedding where people are not actually wed. If you are not actually wed during your ceremony, then it is a PPD. Vow renewals do not fall into this category because they shouldn't be done in the style of a wedding, ie big white dress, wedding party etc.  

blabla89

Is the original officiant someone your sister or FBIL are close to? I could kind of understand if it were a dear friend or family member whom they've always wanted to perform the wedding, and in that case I would wonder why the officiant couldn't just be ordained in their province. But, I don't know how all of that works in Canada.

Second, it sounds like your sister is treating you (and her other guests) like crap. Now, I don't know your sister at all but I know that I have been better off for cutting some selfish, toxic people out of my own life. Sometimes we just have to do what's best for us. I think you need to do some soul searching and consider the future of your relationship with your sister. At the very least, you need to tell her she's being hurtful (and maybe you already have). If you hope to salvage the relationship, it may be best to be the bigger person and go to the wedding.

mimiphin

Yeah, I would find it super weird for the B&G to not sign the license during the wedding. I have only seen it happen (not sign the license) once and it was for a PPD in Arizona.
 
I still don't understand this American thing of doing it after, how can you be pronounced Husband and Wife if the legal stuff isn't done yet.

manillabar

It's funny, I was born and raised in NY but my family is haitian and I guess just about every wedding I've been to has been with haitian people (family, church members, family friends, etc)... The signing was always done as part of the ceremony, so I just thought that was how everyone did it until last year, when my friend got married, and the signing was announced as a "haitian tradition." (she is haitian but the groom is not) *shrugs* I guess it's just a "non-American" tradition haha

LadyMillil

@scribe95 @lalalaurita

As far as I know, they have no relationship with the officiant that can't legally perform the marriage. He isn't family, a friend or the minister at FBIL's church. There is no reason that they can't use somebody else as the officiant.

wandajune6

Can't they have both officiants there? Co-officiate?