'I hate the government...except when it pays me.'

HisGirlFriday13

I have a friend, S, who is having a fight with her neighbours. She owns chickens, and the rooster crowing at oh-dark-thirty every morning is driving her neighbours slightly batty.

So now there's an investigation going on by the municipality's zoning hearing board, and she's being asked to provide documentation about when they got the chickens and how many they have and what they do with them and so on. They live in a municipality that has several kinds of residential zoning, and they live in the lowest (least-restrictive) area, so they're probably OK with having the chickens under various exemptions and variances, and they've probably been grandfathered into anyway, because the new zoning that the neighbours are arguing prohibits chickens was enacted recently, and they've had their chickens for years. Under the old zoning, agriculture, the chickens were definitely allowed.

S called me yesterday and went off on this big, long, profanity-ridden rant about how the government sticks its nose into other people's business too often and it's none of the government's damn business what she does with her own land (note: they rent, not own, the land/house), how dare the government regulate people's rights, etc.

Basically, 'I hate the fucking government and I want it out of my damn life.'

Except that, oh, right, she's MORE than willing to accept WIC and welfare cheques from the government, to have her five kids enrolled in the state-sponsored children's health-care programme, and be on government assistance.

So, she hates the government meddling in people's lives except for the fact that the government is what feeds her kids.

/rant.

Emmy1493

That is so true. How are you going to complain about it, when you get gov. help? Don't bite the hand that feeds you..., er, well you and your children.

SammiNJonni

I know so many people like that it is crazy.

larrygaga

It's sad because it ruins it for everyone who is on welfare and isn't like that. Everyone remember that this isn't everyone on welfare, it's just a small minority. Please!

cupcait927

All I can do is shake my head. Ridiculous and like @SammiNJonni said, there are a lot of people that complain the same way.

ETA - but not ALL people on welfare are like that, as @larrygaga pointed out. I just have heard too many people complain about the same things when I worked as a cashier at a grocery store.

KatWAG

Ugh. I work in government/ politics. I hear stories like this all the time. People hate government/ cops/ fireman etc until they need them.

FWIW, the chicken (and also pig) issue is a very hot topic issue amongst municipalities nation wide.

HisGirlFriday13

KatWAG said:

Ugh. I work in government/ politics. I hear stories like this all the time. People hate government/ cops/ fireman etc until they need them.

FWIW, the chicken (and also pig) issue is a very hot topic issue amongst municipalities nation wide.

So do I, which is part of the reason she called me. And we're actually following a duck issue in my area right now (don't ask), so I know these are nation-wide issues. 

I'm just mostly frustrated by her hypocrisy and her vitriolic FB rants about the 'effing nosy government.' You don't mind the 'effing nosy government' sending you cheques every month, now do you?

And I do agree with @larrygaga that this isn't indicative of welfare recipients as a whole, it's just her and her hypocrisy.

MrsAitch

Maybe she just hates the local government? The zoning is surely determined by the town zoning board or some other local entity, and the assistance she receives is probably coming from the federal government or the state.

Just because a person receives some kind of benefit from the federal/state government, that doesn't mean they have no right to complain about the government (at any level really, but especially the local level since it's a totally different entity) being a little intrusive.

HisGirlFriday13

MrsAitch said:

Maybe she just hates the local government? The zoning is surely determined by the town zoning board or some other local entity, and the assistance she receives is probably coming from the federal government or the state.

Just because a person receives some kind of benefit from the federal/state government, that doesn't mean they have no right to complain about the government (at any level really, but especially the local level since it's a totally different entity) being a little intrusive.

Call me crazy, but I don't think it's 'intrusive' of the government, at any level, to expect people to abide by the rules and to investigate when there are allegations that they aren't. 

Complaining about the government in specific instances is certainly allowed; complaining wholesale that the government has no business being involved in people's rights and property and lives when the government is subsidising your life is hypocritical.

larrygaga

If I get woken up by a damn chicken you better believe I'm having it for dinner. 

JCbride2015

I hate this too.  I hear various intellectually-cloaked arguments like this all the time at my fancy-pants law school from privileged folks who think they are "self-made" or "don't need government help."  Oh, did you go to public school?  Do your parents get tax breaks for owning their nice house in the suburbs?  Did you take the subway to work today?  Did you drive over a bridge recently?  Are you planning to go work for one of those big corporations that gets all kinds of government subsidies?

Yeah, I thought so.

penguin44

@JCBride if I could like your comment more than once I would. I especially loved it when people at my state university would complain about these types of things. It was so hard not to just laugh at their faces. Like they couldn't be serious right? A friend had her college tuition completely covered by FAFSA. Yet the government is so awful. You have got to be kidding me!

blabla89

I'm generally opposed to excessive government regulations, but most zoning ordinances exist for the benefit and safety of all citizens. If you can't deal with city ordinances, move out to the country. If I were that neighbor I'd be calling in a noise complaint every time the rooster woke me up.

And yeah, people who take advantage of the welfare system disgust me.

emmaaa

I am the person with cows, chickens, and pigs making all kinds of noises at all times of the day. I don't want to be regulated on that by the government so I don't live in the town or city limits. Living in the country is the only option for me.

I also don't have neighbors really.

Edited: because all letters are necessary

SBmini

This is a friend? Is she a worthwhile friend? If not... I would so totally call her out on her hypocrisy on her next rant. I know a number of people who really benefit from WIC, but they appreciate the help they receive- they don't bite the hand that feeds!

HisGirlFriday13

eg72 said:

I am the person with cows, chickens, and pigs making all kinds of noises at all times of te day. I don't want to be regulated on that by the government so I don't live in the town or cuty limits. Living in the country is the ony option for me.

I also don't have neighbors really.

But that's the difference. You recognise you don't want to be regulated, so you live in an area where what you want to do is allowed. You didn't start doing whatever you wanted and then get offended when you were told you aren't allowed to do that in that area.

I grew up in an area that was zoned RR -- rural residential -- which meant people could have small farms, so I grew up listening to roosters crowing at oh-dark-thirty, and smelling cow manure on the fields, and hearing farm equipment all summer and fall long as they harvested stuff.

But those were permissible uses under our zoning, so we accepted it as a part of life. Had we lived in an area where it wasn't allowed, we might have complained. 

emmaaa

HisGirlFriday13 said:

eg72 said:

I am the person with cows, chickens, and pigs making all kinds of noises at all times of te day. I don't want to be regulated on that by the government so I don't live in the town or cuty limits. Living in the country is the ony option for me.

I also don't have neighbors really.

But that's the difference. You recognise you don't want to be regulated, so you live in an area where what you want to do is allowed. You didn't start doing whatever you wanted and then get offended when you were told you aren't allowed to do that in that area.

I grew up in an area that was zoned RR -- rural residential -- which meant people could have small farms, so I grew up listening to roosters crowing at oh-dark-thirty, and smelling cow manure on the fields, and hearing farm equipment all summer and fall long as they harvested stuff.

But those were permissible uses under our zoning, so we accepted it as a part of life. Had we lived in an area where it wasn't allowed, we might have complained. 

Exactly. This "friend" sounds like a real gem.

MrsAitch

HisGirlFriday13 said:

eg72 said:

I am the person with cows, chickens, and pigs making all kinds of noises at all times of te day. I don't want to be regulated on that by the government so I don't live in the town or cuty limits. Living in the country is the ony option for me.

I also don't have neighbors really.

But that's the difference. You recognise you don't want to be regulated, so you live in an area where what you want to do is allowed. You didn't start doing whatever you wanted and then get offended when you were told you aren't allowed to do that in that area.

I grew up in an area that was zoned RR -- rural residential -- which meant people could have small farms, so I grew up listening to roosters crowing at oh-dark-thirty, and smelling cow manure on the fields, and hearing farm equipment all summer and fall long as they harvested stuff.

But those were permissible uses under our zoning, so we accepted it as a part of life. Had we lived in an area where it wasn't allowed, we might have complained. 

But you said it is allowed under the old zoning laws but not under the new ones? I'm just wondering because the town I live in has a lot of rural areas where new construction is going up...a farmhouse with animals and cornfields is next to a subdivision of new single family homes. I was assuming it was a situation like this and if I was the person who lived out in the country I would be seriously ticked that new zoning laws because of these goofy new developments (Who wants to live in a subdivision surrounded by cornfields!? makes no sense to me) would have any effect on my lifestyle.

HisGirlFriday13

MrsAitch said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

eg72 said:

I am the person with cows, chickens, and pigs making all kinds of noises at all times of te day. I don't want to be regulated on that by the government so I don't live in the town or cuty limits. Living in the country is the ony option for me.

I also don't have neighbors really.

But that's the difference. You recognise you don't want to be regulated, so you live in an area where what you want to do is allowed. You didn't start doing whatever you wanted and then get offended when you were told you aren't allowed to do that in that area.

I grew up in an area that was zoned RR -- rural residential -- which meant people could have small farms, so I grew up listening to roosters crowing at oh-dark-thirty, and smelling cow manure on the fields, and hearing farm equipment all summer and fall long as they harvested stuff.

But those were permissible uses under our zoning, so we accepted it as a part of life. Had we lived in an area where it wasn't allowed, we might have complained. 

But you said it is allowed under the old zoning laws but not under the new ones? I'm just wondering because the town I live in has a lot of rural areas where new construction is going up...a farmhouse with animals and cornfields is next to a subdivision of new single family homes. I was assuming it was a situation like this and if I was the person who lived out in the country I would be seriously ticked that new zoning laws because of these goofy new developments (Who wants to live in a subdivision surrounded by cornfields!? makes no sense to me) would have any effect on my lifestyle.

I *think* it is, but I don't know that. And certainly if that's the case, she's in the right and her neighbour is in the wrong. 

But I don't think it's intrusive of the government to investigate a complaint and render a judgement -- either she is allowed to have the chickens and the neighbour needs to GTFO it, or she's not allowed to have them and she needs to get rid of them. That's what the government does. 

I should add, she has no problem calling CPS on her husband's ex-wife when she feels the ex-wife isn't being a good mother, so the government interfering there is OK, too, apparently.

mysticl

I have a friend who posted this thing on fb about if you can afford cigarettes, alcohol, cable tv, and tattoos you shouldn't be on government assistance.  The funny thing is I don't remember her or her husband quitting smoking when they were on SNAP and their child was on medicaid.  I do remember them moving to a bigger apartment and taking on a couple of pets though.  

JCbride2015

penguin44 said:

@JCBride if I could like your comment more than once I would. I especially loved it when people at my state university would complain about these types of things. It was so hard not to just laugh at their faces. Like they couldn't be serious right? A friend had her college tuition completely covered by FAFSA. Yet the government is so awful. You have got to be kidding me!

@penguin44 OMG, how could I have forgotten federal student loans in my first comment?  Good point!

pinkshorts27

mysticl said:

I have a friend who posted this thing on fb about if you can afford cigarettes, alcohol, cable tv, and tattoos you shouldn't be on government assistance.  The funny thing is I don't remember her or her husband quitting smoking when they were on SNAP and their child was on medicaid.  I do remember them moving to a bigger apartment and taking on a couple of pets though.  

Is this my grandma? My goodness she takes advantage and is so hypocritical.

mysticl

blueeyes90 said:

I have a friend who posted this thing on fb about if you can afford cigarettes, alcohol, cable tv, and tattoos you shouldn't be on government assistance.  The funny thing is I don't remember her or her husband quitting smoking when they were on SNAP and their child was on medicaid.  I do remember them moving to a bigger apartment and taking on a couple of pets though.  

Is this my grandma? My goodness she takes advantage and is so hypocritical.

I never begrudged them the help.  They both worked but their employers didn't provide medical coverage and they just didn't make enough money to cover everything.  So they were exactly who assistance was intended to help.  But it was very hypocritical of her to post a blanket judgement of people who were in the same situation she was only a couple of years ago.  

pinkshorts27

mysticl said:

blueeyes90 said:

mysticl said:

I have a friend who posted this thing on fb about if you can afford cigarettes, alcohol, cable tv, and tattoos you shouldn't be on government assistance.  The funny thing is I don't remember her or her husband quitting smoking when they were on SNAP and their child was on medicaid.  I do remember them moving to a bigger apartment and taking on a couple of pets though.  

Is this my grandma? My goodness she takes advantage and is so hypocritical.

I never begrudged them the help.  They both worked but their employers didn't provide medical coverage and they just didn't make enough money to cover everything.  So they were exactly who assistance was intended to help.  But it was very hypocritical of her to post a blanket judgement of people who were in the same situation she was only a couple of years ago.  

My grandma still is on help and judges other people. Sure has a data plan, internet, cable, etc. And had the balls to judge others.

wandajune6

My aunt was like that until my mom rather harshly reminded her that she was waiting until she turned 65 to deal with numerous health issues.

APDSS22

Now this thread has me wondering if the rooster living in the subdivision next to my old apartment complex inside city limits was some sort of anti-government holdout keeping chickens out of spite.  I didn't mind the hens but that rooster made me wish it was dead every day.

afox007

FI's ex wife is one of those people. She made the divorce take way longer than necessary because she doesn't "believe in government" and it wasn't their place to tell her she was or was not married. Yet prior to being homeless she was getting SNAP and had a government subsidized apartment. I will admit that I have a slightly evil confession she lost the SNAP a few months after FSS and his half sister moved in with me; I called their fraud department and told them I thought she was still claiming the kids. They looked into it and sure enough she was; she not only lost the benefits immediately they also took a good chunk out of her state taxes to cover the months of over payment.

thisismynickname2

JCBride2014 said: I hate this too.  I hear various intellectually-cloaked arguments like this all the time at my fancy-pants law school from privileged folks who think they are "self-made" or "don't need government help."  Oh, did you go to public school?  Do your parents get tax breaks for owning their nice house in the suburbs?  Did you take the subway to work today?  Did you drive over a bridge recently?  Are you planning to go work for one of those big corporations that gets all kinds of government subsidies?
Yeah, I thought so. To offer a different opinion, there's a strong philosophy that we don't need the government in its current form to do any of the above. Whether people like it or not, yes there are tax breaks and government subsidies and public transportation, but none of those need to be "big government run" to exist.  The pioneers ran wagons over prairies and managed to cross rivers without a government.  We can't change the level at which the government is currently involved in our lives, but we're free to disagree with the level of involvement in the first place. 

My dad's experience in public school was sitting around reading the Chicago Sun Times. He started apprenticing in a trade at a young age, and opened his own small business in that trade as very young man. He figured out saving and investing himself.  That's one person who I would definitely say "created himself" with the bare minimum of forced-government involvement possible, and who I think of when people bristle as the "you didn't create that" allegation.  

mysticl

afox007 said:

FI's ex wife is one of those people. She made the divorce take way longer than necessary because she doesn't "believe in government" and it wasn't their place to tell her she was or was not married. Yet prior to being homeless she was getting SNAP and had a government subsidized apartment. I will admit that I have a slightly evil confession she lost the SNAP a few months after FSS and his half sister moved in with me; I called their fraud department and told them I thought she was still claiming the kids. They looked into it and sure enough she was; she not only lost the benefits immediately they also took a good chunk out of her state taxes to cover the months of over payment.

Nothing evil about that.  I often get flack because I don't condemn people on assistance as "lazy" and I give them the benefit of the doubt.  People like your FI's ex are the ones who give the working poor who just need a little help a bad name.