Student Loans

bananasplit472001

I am very interested in this subject matter as it seems to have become a big debate.  What do you guys think of loan forgiveness?  Why should the government and private loan companies forgive student loans because the students cannot pay them back?  What about the students that were able to pay their tuition off as they went to college.  Should they then get a free college degree just because someone else could not pay their loans?  This is bothersome to me as my FI is still paying off his student loans for about another year (right up until we get married).  My parents were able to afford college and I came out with a degree and no loans.  It is difficult for me to understand why people want their loans forgiven just because college is too expensive.

jennyleigh16

I don't know very many people who are working in the field they went to school for, and I have a theory as to why. 

When someone graduates with a lot of debt they immediately go into the first job they can get, in order to start to pay off the debt. This job is often not the career-type job they went to school for. By the time they've paid off enough to feel comfortable/ the right job comes along, they've already put in enough time where they are to move up in the company, gain seniority, etc. I think as a result, there are a lot of people working jobs they are underqualified for. 

I think if the government forgave student loans it would lead to people who should be experts in a field taking the time after school to actually get into that field, which would be better for everyone because having a expert in that job is always good and it opens up the less skilled jobs to people who are less skilled. 

I think it would be a good thing all around. I understand the mentality of "well why should they get free education and not me, just because I could afford it?" but I think everyone deserves to be able to get an education and sending a person out into the world to work a minimum wage job with more debt than they could ever hope to pay back is not good for anybody. Government included. 

jalyndani

I'm going to throw my $0.02 in here, and perhaps offer a different perspective as someone who is hoping to get some kind of loan forgiveness in the future. Bear with my saga, it is long but it has a point, I swear.

When I enrolled in college for the first time 13 years ago, the new "trendy" financial advice being given to parents and college students was to apply for student loans in the student's name. That way, no student was denied the opportunity to attend college and parents didn't have to take out additional debt or a second mortgage on their homes. Financial advisers spouted all the awesome benefits of student loans- you didn't have to make payments while still in school, your first payment wasn't due until 6 months after you graduated, you could get super-low interest rates, and you had ten whole years to pay everything off. To an 18 year old college freshman and her parents, this sounded like a great deal. I'd go to school for 3.5 years, get my Bachelor's degree, get a job, then pay off my loans without inconveniencing my parents' wallets. It was a win-win situation. Plus, I was attending a state university where I was only incurring "resident" tuition fees, which amounted to about $2500/semester for a full 14-hour course load. (Oh, how the times have changed...)

Except when I got close to finishing my Bachelor's, I discovered that no one would hire a 21 year old female in the  male-dominated field of agriculture/animal science. The jobs that I could get were demeaning and paid very little. So I decided that I needed to get a Master's degree, add to my experience & skills in a specific facet of agriculture, and THEN I could get a good job and would be more qualified. So I deferred my loan payments, took out more loans, and plunged in. Would you believe it, once I finished that degree, I still could not find employment? I was too young, I was female, I didn't have any "work experience", etc etc etc. At this point, I was so frustrated that I decided to just apply to veterinary school (a lifelong dream). That too was unsuccessful. 

So here I was, 24 years old with 2 college degrees and no "work" experience, making $8/hr as a veterinary assistant at a small clinic. I barely made enough money to pay bills and my truck payment, there was no way I could make the monthly payments on $80,000 worth of student loans on my paycheck. I was given the advice- by many family members, advisers, and friends- to get my teacher's certification so I could at least get a job teaching high school agricultural science. To do this, I had to go back to the university to enroll in the necessary education courses and complete student teaching. Three semesters and $20k later, I passed my certification tests and started the job search. The first position I applied for, I was offered an interview....then a second interview with the administration.....and then I was told they gave the job to a guy who had graduated from that exact high school a few years back who only held a Bachelors. I applied for dozens of openings, had a few more interviews....still nothing. Nada. No offers, no call-backs. 

  I was stumped. At a dead end. I was 26 years old, highly educated, certified, with a lifetime of agriculture experience (and by now had 3 years of veterinary experience), but I couldn't get a damn job that dealt with agriculture!  Hell, I couldn't even get hired for a second job waiting tables at a popular local restaurant b/c I wasn't "perky enough" (even though I waited tables all through undergrad).  WTF was I going to do? Those loans weren't going to disappear, and I needed a career, not an hourly wage. 

I decided to try again for veterinary school. I had three prerequisite classes that I needed to take in order to be eligible- two of them I took at a local community college for next to nothing and paid cash for tuition. The third, I did a payment plan with a different university nearby so I pay cash for it too (with my then-$10/hour vet assistant job). 

Which brings us to now- I'm a 30 year old, second-year, out-of-state veterinary student with a mind-boggling, six-figure amount of student loans. I will never, ever pay them all off. Once I graduate and interest starts accruing on my principle amount, complete repayment is entirely unattainable. We're talking monthly payments in the range of $2500-$3000 for decades. My only saving grace is to take a job as a "public service" veterinarian- working for a non-profit organization, a shelter, a rescue group, a low-income community, etc for a fraction of what I could make elsewhere- for ten years. During this time, my loan payments will be based on a percentage of my adjusted gross income for the year. After ten years of service and on-time payments, the remaining amount of my loans- however large it may be- will be forgiven by the government.  The catch?  In the year that follows that forgiveness, I must pay taxes on that amount. Do you know what the taxes are on $400k? 

So don't think that because someone gets government "forgiveness" of their student loans that they're getting a free, no-stress, no-financial-responsibility education. A series of circumstances over the last decade has put me in this situation, and I hate it.  So does my FI. We are going to pay as much as we physically can on my loans once I graduate, but we know that I'll basically go to my grave owing money to the government unless I get a forgiveness. He owes nothing on his 3 degrees- his parents paid cash for his undergrad, and he was awarded graduate assistantships for his Masters & PhD. I was not so lucky. But believe me, my education will not have been free if I can get my loans forgiven. 

Keep in mind, many of those forgiveness programs have specific criteria- whether it be showing financial hardship, living & working in undesirable areas (proving a service) or working in sector that underpays its workers. Nobody is getting away scot-free without having to pony up something or just plain suck it up for a few years. The government doesn't get something for nothing (except with welfare. But that's a whole different argument that boils my blood.)

Anywho, if you've made it this far, thanks for reading. Remember, you never know another person's circumstances or what brought them to the position they're in. Please don't assume broad generalizations before getting all of the pertinent information. 

jalyndani

One more point I forgot to make- yes, college is extremely expensive these days. I made the comment in my novel above that my tuition for a full course load each semester was $2500 when I started 12 years ago (a public state university). That same course load- with no meal plan, no housing, no books/supplies- costs a student almost $6000 now. If I/my parents couldn't afford $2500/semester 12 years ago, I can completely understand why students & parents can't afford it now. And we were an average middle-class family with two hardworking parents. If you're an out of state student, you might as well double that figure. A private school? Ha. I hope you're an heiress, a princess, or your great-great-grandpa was JP Morgan or John Rockefeller. 

jenbaer16 for a pretty good assessment of that situation. But people don't just "want their loans forgiven because college is too expensive". Like I stated above, those forgiveness programs have criteria and regulations that have to followed in order for that to happen. And they aren't forgiven just b/c the borrower "wants" it. The borrower is usually up Shit Creek without a paddle and is sacrificing something in order to fulfill the requirements of the program. 

Read up on some the specific forgiveness programs you're so concerned about. What are the stipulations? What conditions must the borrower demonstrate to be eligible? How many years of payments must be made prior to forgiveness?  I don't know of a single program that will forgive a student's entire loan amount based solely on the student's assertion that they "can't afford to pay it back".  Some kind of extremely dire hardship would have to be involved, I would think, that would make it physically impossible for the student to earn a living and make payments of any amount before such a forgiveness could occur. 

bananasplit472001

jalyndani You do make valid and interesting points.  I was merely curious as to why so many people are lobbying for this.  My FI was strapped with $55,000 is student loans when he graduated college.  His divorced parents were only able to pay for around $20,000 over the course of 4 years.  I was one of the lucky ones whose parents paid for college for me and my sister at the same time (were twins).  We are not rich by any means but both of my parents have college degrees and full-time jobs.  My dad even teaches part-time because he enjoys his field so much.  We live somewhat frugally on a daily basis, so we have extra money for things like vacations, going out to eat and impulse buys.  My parents came from working class families and worked hard for what they have and put themselves through college with no student loans, but by working a job and going to school.  Both my sister and I worked part-time jobs during school (going at the same time).  We both went to state schools and lived on-campus for most of the time.  That is around $50-$60k a year just to send 2 kids to a public university.  Who has that kind of money?  No one, which is why my parents saved since the day we were born for us to go to college and never had to worry about taking money out of their paycheck for college.  It all came from savings.  My parents have almost zero debt (small morgage on a vacation home recently purchased) but still manage to save a good amount of money on a weekly basis.  They also are able to pay 100% for our weddings which are only 1 year apart by saving in advance.  So the excuse that people just don't have the extra money to save is inaccurate.  I understand people have different life circumstances but that should never be an excuse for not being able to pay for something.  Bottom line that if you can't afford to pay for it or you can't afford to pay it back don't buy it or don't go to college.  Most people get angry when I say that but the fact of the matter is that there are still options for those who can't afford traditional college.  Go to a community college for the first 2 years of until all pre-reqs are finished then transfer to a 4-year state school within a reasonable distance of your home (I commuted my entire senior year 45 mins away 4 days a week with an internship 2 days a week).  Purchase books and supplies online to get them cheaper, take classes only during the year and not inter-session classes of summer courses.  If you must take those courses see if they can be taken at a community college (many upper level courses surprisingly can).  My sister and I both had several job offers before we even graduated (her's in finance and mine in cosmetic science).

Back to my FI situation.  His parents helped a little bit to pay for college but he still had $55,000 left in student loans to pay off starting immediately.  He also had a science degree in Cellular Biology and Neuroscience, a field that is dominated by Ph.D graduates.  Where was he going to get a job?  In another field just like everyone else who can't find their dream job.  He is now an associate scientist for a raw material supplier company that has nothing to do with his field, and he likes it.  My point is that if you can't find a job in your exact field then find something similar because there are a ton of jobs out there for people with science degrees.  If you sacrifice in the beginning you can pay off yous loans and still be able to get the job and advanced degree that you want.  We have been out of college for just a little over 2 years!  His debt is now under $10,000 from just a measly entry-level job.  He took over-time at his job and has been working 10 hours days 5 days a week to pay off loans and other bills, AND has been able to save for our home that we will purchase this summer.  It can be done you just have to be willing to sacrifice what you want for what you need at the moment.  It will not stunt your career if you take any entry-level job in a similar field for a few years.  Also having internships during college couldn't have hurt.  I got an entry-level job that required experience because I decided to have 2 internships during college.  So you can get experience before you graduate in the form of part-time jobs, internships, externships, co-ops,   research positions at the school and courses that actually have you working in the field and you get credit!  I went to a state school that had all that and everyone who took advantage of those programs got a job out of college and started to pay off their loans.  

So while you do make a valid point that everyone has different life experiences that determine their ability to pay for college, it is the person's ability to be able to overcome their struggles that will make them successful.  There are plenty of part-time jobs other than being a server that you can take that have a much higher hourly rate (testing services administrator, proctor for exams at the collage, teaching assistant, paid research assistant etc).  As for someone not being able to get a job in their field, unfortunately there will never be enough jobs for everyone in the field which is why competition exists.  Most people from my generation want to be CEO of a company right out of college, but it just doesn't happen. You need to work up to your career and cannot just say "oh I can't get a job in my career because all entry-level jobs require experience and I don't have any" .  Work the low-paying jobs plus a second job get the experience and work your way up in the world.  No one gets a free ride and they shouldn't have to.  You must always struggle and work for what you have even if it is just a measly low-paying job.  

mbross3

bananasplit472001 said:

I am very interested in this subject matter as it seems to have become a big debate.  What do you guys think of loan forgiveness?  Why should the government and private loan companies forgive student loans because the students cannot pay them back?  What about the students that were able to pay their tuition off as they went to college.  Should they then get a free college degree just because someone else could not pay their loans?  This is bothersome to me as my FI is still paying off his student loans for about another year (right up until we get married).  My parents were able to afford college and I came out with a degree and no loans.  It is difficult for me to understand why people want their loans forgiven just because college is too expensive.

The bolded is why it is difficult for you to understand, because you won't ever have to deal with this. Your post comes off as judgmental and ill-informed, honestly. People don't want their loans forgiven "just because college is too expensive". People want their loans forgiven because they want to take jobs in the public service sector that do not pay as high as ones in the private sector. 

Also-private loans are not eligible for loan forgiveness, only federal loans. You may be able to compile your total loans, but not all private loans are eligible for this. Please do research before posting something like this. 

The only way to get loans forgiven is to work at a qualifying non-profit or government job for 10 YEARS. Non-profit and government jobs pay, on average, 1/3 of the amount paid for a similar type of job in the private sector. Loan forgiveness acknowledges that highly educated and motivated people are sacrificing higher paychecks in order to work in an area that gives back to society, to a specific community, or to a group of people. The "forgiveness" aspect of it is to help out those individuals who decide to follow this career path, which would simply not be feasible if they had to pay back the entirety of a $150,000 student loan bill. If we didn't have some semblance of a loan forgiveness program, we wouldn't have recent graduates willing and able to work in lower paying, public service jobs. 

PLEASE do some research before you post something like this. I find this extremely offensive, especially coming from someone who readily admits that they have never had to take out loans and have had their parents pay for their schooling. It is clear you have no idea how privileged you are. You are VERY lucky to be in that situation and clearly have no idea the struggles some people go through just to have the opportunities you have been given. Please give some thought and respect to people who are not as privileged as you and who would benefit from a program like this.

 

ETA: I just really want to stress that it is ONLY public service or government jobs that are eligible for loan forgiveness. And no one "gets a free ride" since you still have to pay your loans back for 10 YEARS. If anything is left at the end of that 10 years, that part is the only part "forgiven". You seem to not have known that based on your post (correct me if I'm wrong). So loan forgiveness is only an option for those who are working in public service and sacrificing higher paid jobs, and who are making qualifying payments for 10 years. 

bananasplit472001

mbross3 said:

bananasplit472001 said:

I am very interested in this subject matter as it seems to have become a big debate.  What do you guys think of loan forgiveness?  Why should the government and private loan companies forgive student loans because the students cannot pay them back?  What about the students that were able to pay their tuition off as they went to college.  Should they then get a free college degree just because someone else could not pay their loans?  This is bothersome to me as my FI is still paying off his student loans for about another year (right up until we get married).  My parents were able to afford college and I came out with a degree and no loans.  It is difficult for me to understand why people want their loans forgiven just because college is too expensive.

The bolded is why it is difficult for you to understand, because you won't ever have to deal with this. Your post comes off as judgmental and ill-informed, honestly. People don't want their loans forgiven "just because college is too expensive". People want their loans forgiven because they want to take jobs in the public service sector that do not pay as high as ones in the private sector. 

Also-private loans are not eligible for loan forgiveness, only federal loans. You may be able to compile your total loans, but not all private loans are eligible for this. Please do research before posting something like this. 

The only way to get loans forgiven is to work at a qualifying non-profit or government job for 10 YEARS. Non-profit and government jobs pay, on average, 1/3 of the amount paid for a similar type of job in the private sector. Loan forgiveness acknowledges that highly educated and motivated people are sacrificing higher paychecks in order to work in an area that gives back to society, to a specific community, or to a group of people. The "forgiveness" aspect of it is to help out those individuals who decide to follow this career path, which would simply not be feasible if they had to pay back the entirety of a $150,000 student loan bill. If we didn't have some semblance of a loan forgiveness program, we wouldn't have recent graduates willing and able to work in lower paying, public service jobs. 

PLEASE do some research before you post something like this. I find this extremely offensive, especially coming from someone who readily admits that they have never had to take out loans and have had their parents pay for their schooling. It is clear you have no idea how privileged you are. You are VERY lucky to be in that situation and clearly have no idea the struggles some people go through just to have the opportunities you have been given. Please give some thought and respect to people who are not as privileged as you and who would benefit from a program like this.

 

ETA: I just really want to stress that it is ONLY public service or government jobs that are eligible for loan forgiveness. And no one "gets a free ride" since you still have to pay your loans back for 10 YEARS. If anything is left at the end of that 10 years, that part is the only part "forgiven". You seem to not have known that based on your post (correct me if I'm wrong). So loan forgiveness is only an option for those who are working in public service and sacrificing higher paid jobs, and who are making qualifying payments for 10 years. 

Your right I did not know that which is why I asked the question.  So then I am in favor of loan forgiveness for those people.  My problem is that it seems that many people are ill-informed of this aspect.  I read and hear all the time from other people, friends about this loan forgiveness program.  They want their loans to be forgiven and they do not have jobs in government or public service.  I disagree with loan forgiveness from people like that.  It is clearly not just me who is ill-informed about this program as many others have all the excuses I listed in my previous post.

mbross3

bananasplit472001 It's very big of you to acknowledge your lack of knowledge on the subject, and I am sorry if my post came off as aggressive. I also hear people with these same arguments and it's just clear that they don't know the regulations of the "loan forgiveness" program. It's really quite strict and even if you are part of the program, you still have to pay your loan payments for 10 full years, which means that it's likely you'll pay off most, if not all, of your loans. Obviously it depends on how much you owe. 

I am a law student and at the end, I will have between $100,000-$120,000 in student loan debt. I spend my free time volunteering in a domestic abuse shelter. I would LOVE to work for them when I graduate, but their legal staff makes about $40,000-$50,000 at the manager level. Meaning I would make less than that, but I strongly believe it's a wonderful cause to work for. With interest, working a job like that, it would take me 50 years to pay back my loans. I could go work for a firm that would pay me $150,000 a year, but if I choose to pursue my passion, I cannot hope to make more than 1/3 of that. So a loan forgiveness program would be my saving grace. I would be able to work in public service and still look forward to a time where I don't owe the government money. It's also a way of encouraging people in my position to consider taking these low-paying public service jobs. Does that make sense? 

Now, I agree with you when you say not everyone should have loan forgiveness. If I take a firm job and earn six figures, I should pay back every cent of what I owe because I would be ABLE to do so. 

I hope that this helps clarify what student loan forgiveness is!

bananasplit472001

mbross3 said:

bananasplit472001 It's very big of you to acknowledge your lack of knowledge on the subject, and I am sorry if my post came off as aggressive. I also hear people with these same arguments and it's just clear that they don't know the regulations of the "loan forgiveness" program. It's really quite strict and even if you are part of the program, you still have to pay your loan payments for 10 full years, which means that it's likely you'll pay off most, if not all, of your loans. Obviously it depends on how much you owe. 

I am a law student and at the end, I will have between $100,000-$120,000 in student loan debt. I spend my free time volunteering in a domestic abuse shelter. I would LOVE to work for them when I graduate, but their legal staff makes about $40,000-$50,000 at the manager level. Meaning I would make less than that, but I strongly believe it's a wonderful cause to work for. With interest, working a job like that, it would take me 50 years to pay back my loans. I could go work for a firm that would pay me $150,000 a year, but if I choose to pursue my passion, I cannot hope to make more than 1/3 of that. So a loan forgiveness program would be my saving grace. I would be able to work in public service and still look forward to a time where I don't owe the government money. It's also a way of encouraging people in my position to consider taking these low-paying public service jobs. Does that make sense? 

Now, I agree with you when you say not everyone should have loan forgiveness. If I take a firm job and earn six figures, I should pay back every cent of what I owe because I would be ABLE to do so. 

I hope that this helps clarify what student loan forgiveness is!

Yes, It does clarify the program for me thanks.  As long as there is no abuse of the program I will support it for people in the public service, but will continue to have a strong stance on those who just want a free ride because they feel entitled.  I am however very proud of my FI for working hard and paying off a large percentage of his student loans thus far.  He will have them paid off right before the wedding, and we will be able to afford to buy our first home due to hard work and savings.  I only hope that this program helps those that actually need it, like yourself, and not the kids who decided to go to college and major in partying. 

chibiyui

bananasplit472001 said:

mbross3 said:

bananasplit472001 It's very big of you to acknowledge your lack of knowledge on the subject, and I am sorry if my post came off as aggressive. I also hear people with these same arguments and it's just clear that they don't know the regulations of the "loan forgiveness" program. It's really quite strict and even if you are part of the program, you still have to pay your loan payments for 10 full years, which means that it's likely you'll pay off most, if not all, of your loans. Obviously it depends on how much you owe. 

I am a law student and at the end, I will have between $100,000-$120,000 in student loan debt. I spend my free time volunteering in a domestic abuse shelter. I would LOVE to work for them when I graduate, but their legal staff makes about $40,000-$50,000 at the manager level. Meaning I would make less than that, but I strongly believe it's a wonderful cause to work for. With interest, working a job like that, it would take me 50 years to pay back my loans. I could go work for a firm that would pay me $150,000 a year, but if I choose to pursue my passion, I cannot hope to make more than 1/3 of that. So a loan forgiveness program would be my saving grace. I would be able to work in public service and still look forward to a time where I don't owe the government money. It's also a way of encouraging people in my position to consider taking these low-paying public service jobs. Does that make sense? 

Now, I agree with you when you say not everyone should have loan forgiveness. If I take a firm job and earn six figures, I should pay back every cent of what I owe because I would be ABLE to do so. 

I hope that this helps clarify what student loan forgiveness is!

Yes, It does clarify the program for me thanks.  As long as there is no abuse of the program I will support it for people in the public service, but will continue to have a strong stance on those who just want a free ride because they feel entitled.  I am however very proud of my FI for working hard and paying off a large percentage of his student loans thus far.  He will have them paid off right before the wedding, and we will be able to afford to buy our first home due to hard work and savings.  I only hope that this program helps those that actually need it, like yourself, and not the kids who decided to go to college and major in partying. 

You know, from my experience, the only people majoring in partying were those had their parents paying for college. 

Yeah, there is obviously a balance to be struck, but a generation of people stuck in under-paying jobs, with crushing debt, and unable/significantly delayed in making it too major financial milestones like home ownership, getting married, starting a family, saving for retirement, etc. isn't good for any nation. 

jennyleigh16

I'm on my third school program trying to find something where someone will hire me for a career. I've done internships and field placements in non-profits who could not afford to hire me after I graduated. I worked my ass off in three part-time jobs at once while going to school full-time. I'm constantly sick from not getting enough sleep. I had no help from my parents and I live with my FI and pay all my own bills. I commute over an hour to every job. I resent the implication that I only have student loans because I didn't work hard enough. 

boxjelly

I have a bachelor's degree and I am working towards my master's degree. 

I have one of those "useless" majors - Fine Art.
My parents worked in the service industry, no savings, no college degree. I knew college would be my money. I went anyway because I want to make myself happy.

I lived on my own, graduated college and worked 30 hours a week while in school.  During my gap year I had three jobs (two serving and one bartending). I made more than enough money to pay my rent, $500 student loan repayment, car payment, all my own bills. But I was not happy.

So I am getting my masters degree and working in academia is my dream. I am not going to be making much money but will be hopefully making art that makes people think. 

Since my degree is something that isn't STEM, should I be ignored in forgiveness?

SoontobeMrsNytes

boxjelly said:

I have a bachelor's degree and I am working towards my master's degree. 

I have one of those "useless" majors - Fine Art.
My parents worked in the service industry, no savings, no college degree. I knew college would be my money. I went anyway because I want to make myself happy.

I lived on my own, graduated college and worked 30 hours a week while in school.  During my gap year I had three jobs (two serving and one bartending). I made more than enough money to pay my rent, $500 student loan repayment, car payment, all my own bills. But I was not happy.

So I am getting my masters degree and working in academia is my dream. I am not going to be making much money but will be hopefully making art that makes people think. 

Since my degree is something that isn't STEM, should I be ignored in forgiveness?

Loan forgiveness isn't limited to STEM degrees. Most students eligible for loan forgiveness must agree to work a certain number of years in the public service field, such as for the government. If you can work for the government with an art degree, great. Perhaps you could look into teaching art at an inner city school. That type of job would qualify you for forgiveness of your loan.

bananasplit472001

chibiyui said:

bananasplit472001 said:

mbross3 said:

bananasplit472001 It's very big of you to acknowledge your lack of knowledge on the subject, and I am sorry if my post came off as aggressive. I also hear people with these same arguments and it's just clear that they don't know the regulations of the "loan forgiveness" program. It's really quite strict and even if you are part of the program, you still have to pay your loan payments for 10 full years, which means that it's likely you'll pay off most, if not all, of your loans. Obviously it depends on how much you owe. 

I am a law student and at the end, I will have between $100,000-$120,000 in student loan debt. I spend my free time volunteering in a domestic abuse shelter. I would LOVE to work for them when I graduate, but their legal staff makes about $40,000-$50,000 at the manager level. Meaning I would make less than that, but I strongly believe it's a wonderful cause to work for. With interest, working a job like that, it would take me 50 years to pay back my loans. I could go work for a firm that would pay me $150,000 a year, but if I choose to pursue my passion, I cannot hope to make more than 1/3 of that. So a loan forgiveness program would be my saving grace. I would be able to work in public service and still look forward to a time where I don't owe the government money. It's also a way of encouraging people in my position to consider taking these low-paying public service jobs. Does that make sense? 

Now, I agree with you when you say not everyone should have loan forgiveness. If I take a firm job and earn six figures, I should pay back every cent of what I owe because I would be ABLE to do so. 

I hope that this helps clarify what student loan forgiveness is!

Yes, It does clarify the program for me thanks.  As long as there is no abuse of the program I will support it for people in the public service, but will continue to have a strong stance on those who just want a free ride because they feel entitled.  I am however very proud of my FI for working hard and paying off a large percentage of his student loans thus far.  He will have them paid off right before the wedding, and we will be able to afford to buy our first home due to hard work and savings.  I only hope that this program helps those that actually need it, like yourself, and not the kids who decided to go to college and major in partying. 

You know, from my experience, the only people majoring in partying were those had their parents paying for college. 

Yeah, there is obviously a balance to be struck, but a generation of people stuck in under-paying jobs, with crushing debt, and unable/significantly delayed in making it too major financial milestones like home ownership, getting married, starting a family, saving for retirement, etc. isn't good for any nation. 

I went to a large state university and there were plenty of students on scholarship and on loans that were partying all the time and matriculating into their major.  My parents paid for my education so I worked hard to get that degree.  I rarely went out and focused on my education.  On Saturday nights I had study groups while everyone else went out and partied. Just because my parents were able to pay for my education did not mean I pissed it away partying.  Because of my hard work I was able to get a good paying job out of college and am currently working my way up.  I'm am getting married and we are purchasing a house.  My FI had so many student loans when he graduated and we are still able to purchase a home without using any type of program.  We are able to put down 20% on our home.  So that is a generalization that just because someone has student loans doesn't mean they aren't able to reach financial milestones.

bananasplit472001

jenbaer16 said:

I'm on my third school program trying to find something where someone will hire me for a career. I've done internships and field placements in non-profits who could not afford to hire me after I graduated. I worked my ass off in three part-time jobs at once while going to school full-time. I'm constantly sick from not getting enough sleep. I had no help from my parents and I live with my FI and pay all my own bills. I commute over an hour to every job. I resent the implication that I only have student loans because I didn't work hard enough. 

My first question would be why are you back in school on your third program?  What were your first 2 programs that you couldn't get a job in?  Just curious.

chibiyui

bananasplit472001 said:

chibiyui said:

bananasplit472001 said:

mbross3 said:

bananasplit472001 It's very big of you to acknowledge your lack of knowledge on the subject, and I am sorry if my post came off as aggressive. I also hear people with these same arguments and it's just clear that they don't know the regulations of the "loan forgiveness" program. It's really quite strict and even if you are part of the program, you still have to pay your loan payments for 10 full years, which means that it's likely you'll pay off most, if not all, of your loans. Obviously it depends on how much you owe. 

I am a law student and at the end, I will have between $100,000-$120,000 in student loan debt. I spend my free time volunteering in a domestic abuse shelter. I would LOVE to work for them when I graduate, but their legal staff makes about $40,000-$50,000 at the manager level. Meaning I would make less than that, but I strongly believe it's a wonderful cause to work for. With interest, working a job like that, it would take me 50 years to pay back my loans. I could go work for a firm that would pay me $150,000 a year, but if I choose to pursue my passion, I cannot hope to make more than 1/3 of that. So a loan forgiveness program would be my saving grace. I would be able to work in public service and still look forward to a time where I don't owe the government money. It's also a way of encouraging people in my position to consider taking these low-paying public service jobs. Does that make sense? 

Now, I agree with you when you say not everyone should have loan forgiveness. If I take a firm job and earn six figures, I should pay back every cent of what I owe because I would be ABLE to do so. 

I hope that this helps clarify what student loan forgiveness is!

Yes, It does clarify the program for me thanks.  As long as there is no abuse of the program I will support it for people in the public service, but will continue to have a strong stance on those who just want a free ride because they feel entitled.  I am however very proud of my FI for working hard and paying off a large percentage of his student loans thus far.  He will have them paid off right before the wedding, and we will be able to afford to buy our first home due to hard work and savings.  I only hope that this program helps those that actually need it, like yourself, and not the kids who decided to go to college and major in partying. 

You know, from my experience, the only people majoring in partying were those had their parents paying for college. 

Yeah, there is obviously a balance to be struck, but a generation of people stuck in under-paying jobs, with crushing debt, and unable/significantly delayed in making it too major financial milestones like home ownership, getting married, starting a family, saving for retirement, etc. isn't good for any nation. 


I went to a large state university and there were plenty of students on scholarship and on loans that were partying all the time and matriculating into their major.  My parents paid for my education so I worked hard to get that degree.  I rarely went out and focused on my education.  On Saturday nights I had study groups while everyone else went out and partied. Just because my parents were able to pay for my education did not mean I pissed it away partying.  Because of my hard work I was able to get a good paying job out of college and am currently working my way up.  I'm am getting married and we are purchasing a house.  My FI had so many student loans when he graduated and we are still able to purchase a home without using any type of program.  We are able to put down 20% on our home.  So that is a generalization that just because someone has student loans doesn't mean they aren't able to reach financial milestones.

I didn't generalize anymore then you did.
I also didn't imply you partied it up.

Talk about student loans puts people on the defensive. It is a sensitive issue. My FI was fortunate enough that his parents paid for his schooling. I was not. I am over a 100k in debt, the only reason I am able to look forward to buying a house one day is because FI is well off financially. But we're years from buying a home because of my loans. I worked my ass off in college I worked a work study job during the school year, and worked retail during breaks. When I graduated, no one was hiring in my field without 5 years experience. I couldn't afford an unpaid internship, and couldn't find any work that paid enough to stay in the city even with roommates. So, I moved back to my smalltown with even more limited openings. I couldn't even get a bank teller job. I worked retail and overnight Fedex to make ends meet. And even then, it wasn't enough to move on. I am lucky I was able to make the jump to sales. But I still wouldn't be able to buy a house in a few years without FI. And that has nothing to do with not working hard enough.

Tl:dr. Not everyone with outrageous student loans has them cause they're lazy, so if you want people to extend you the courtesy of not assuming you were shotgunning beers on your parents dime, please extend the courtesy of not assuming everyone with crazy student loans just wants a free ride and would be fine if they just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and worked harder.

krose58

I know in my case, loan forgiveness will help immensely since my projected income will make it difficult to pay back my loans in a timely manner. I will be graduating soon with my Bachelor's degree in Education. As a teacher, if I teach in what is known as a Title 1 district (a certain percentage of students on free/reduced lunch) some of my loans will be forgiven. I do not see this as a way of getting out of repaying loans since not all of my loans will be forgiven. 

One of the reasons that I will NEED some loan forgiveness is because in all the states that I will potentially teach in require me to eventually pursue a Master's degree. I would not be able to afford to go to grad school while I work and pay for the rest of my expenses. 

From what I understand there are not a ton of loan forgiveness programs that let the student off scot-free. 

bananasplit472001

chibiyui said:

chibiyui said:

bananasplit472001 said:

mbross3 said:

bananasplit472001 It's very big of you to acknowledge your lack of knowledge on the subject, and I am sorry if my post came off as aggressive. I also hear people with these same arguments and it's just clear that they don't know the regulations of the "loan forgiveness" program. It's really quite strict and even if you are part of the program, you still have to pay your loan payments for 10 full years, which means that it's likely you'll pay off most, if not all, of your loans. Obviously it depends on how much you owe. 

I am a law student and at the end, I will have between $100,000-$120,000 in student loan debt. I spend my free time volunteering in a domestic abuse shelter. I would LOVE to work for them when I graduate, but their legal staff makes about $40,000-$50,000 at the manager level. Meaning I would make less than that, but I strongly believe it's a wonderful cause to work for. With interest, working a job like that, it would take me 50 years to pay back my loans. I could go work for a firm that would pay me $150,000 a year, but if I choose to pursue my passion, I cannot hope to make more than 1/3 of that. So a loan forgiveness program would be my saving grace. I would be able to work in public service and still look forward to a time where I don't owe the government money. It's also a way of encouraging people in my position to consider taking these low-paying public service jobs. Does that make sense? 

Now, I agree with you when you say not everyone should have loan forgiveness. If I take a firm job and earn six figures, I should pay back every cent of what I owe because I would be ABLE to do so. 

I hope that this helps clarify what student loan forgiveness is!

Yes, It does clarify the program for me thanks.  As long as there is no abuse of the program I will support it for people in the public service, but will continue to have a strong stance on those who just want a free ride because they feel entitled.  I am however very proud of my FI for working hard and paying off a large percentage of his student loans thus far.  He will have them paid off right before the wedding, and we will be able to afford to buy our first home due to hard work and savings.  I only hope that this program helps those that actually need it, like yourself, and not the kids who decided to go to college and major in partying. 

You know, from my experience, the only people majoring in partying were those had their parents paying for college. 

Yeah, there is obviously a balance to be struck, but a generation of people stuck in under-paying jobs, with crushing debt, and unable/significantly delayed in making it too major financial milestones like home ownership, getting married, starting a family, saving for retirement, etc. isn't good for any nation. 

I went to a large state university and there were plenty of students on scholarship and on loans that were partying all the time and matriculating into their major.  My parents paid for my education so I worked hard to get that degree.  I rarely went out and focused on my education.  On Saturday nights I had study groups while everyone else went out and partied. Just because my parents were able to pay for my education did not mean I pissed it away partying.  Because of my hard work I was able to get a good paying job out of college and am currently working my way up.  I'm am getting married and we are purchasing a house.  My FI had so many student loans when he graduated and we are still able to purchase a home without using any type of program.  We are able to put down 20% on our home.  So that is a generalization that just because someone has student loans doesn't mean they aren't able to reach financial milestones.

I didn't generalize anymore then you did. I also didn't imply you partied it up. Talk about student loans puts people on the defensive. It is a sensitive issue. My FI was fortunate enough that his parents paid for his schooling. I was not. I am over a 100k in debt, the only reason I am able to look forward to buying a house one day is because FI is well off financially. But we're years from buying a home because of my loans. I worked my ass off in college I worked a work study job during the school year, and worked retail during breaks. When I graduated, no one was hiring in my field without 5 years experience. I couldn't afford an unpaid internship, and couldn't find any work that paid enough to stay in the city even with roommates. So, I moved back to my smalltown with even more limited openings. I couldn't even get a bank teller job. I worked retail and overnight Fedex to make ends meet. And even then, it wasn't enough to move on. I am lucky I was able to make the jump to sales. But I still wouldn't be able to buy a house in a few years without FI. And that has nothing to do with not working hard enough. Tl:dr. Not everyone with outrageous student loans has them cause they're lazy, so if you want people to extend you the courtesy of not assuming you were shotgunning beers on your parents dime, please extend the courtesy of not assuming everyone with crazy student loans just wants a free ride and would be fine if they just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and worked harder.

I think that finding a job is definitely the most difficult thing a person can do right now.  I graduated in a major where jobs were abundant no matter where I lived.  It also happened to be a high paying career path, thus making it easier to get out of debt than the average person.  My FI also graduated with a degree in the science field and was able to pay back the majority of his loans from just his job.  But, he didn't have any less loans that the average college student.  Obviously the high cost of education is a big issue.  The other issue is that people are majoring in careers that may be in low demand so when they get out of college they can't find a job.  It happens all the time.  Yes, people may not be able to study and do the jobs that are in demand but choosing a major that has a positive career outlook is half the battle.  It doesn't mean that any one is lazy that they can't pay off their loans it just means that the job market doesn't have their job in demand.  With a little research during college students can earn a degree that will not pigeonhole them into a specific job.  This is because in 10 years that job could become obsolete.  A good example of that right now is a teaching degree.  Teaching is a very good job with a livable salary.  Unfortunately full-time teachers are not in demand right now due to budget cuts in districts.  I know many friends who went to school for teaching and still cannot get more than a substitute job.  This is because this job in no longer in high demand as there are less spots to fill.  If someone were to couple their teaching degree with various certifications such as special education or double major in something like psychology they will be more marketable and more likely to find a job.  It sounds like when you are done with your law program you will have an easier time finding a job.  

chibiyui

bananasplit472001 said:

chibiyui said:

chibiyui said:

bananasplit472001 said:

mbross3 said:

bananasplit472001 It's very big of you to acknowledge your lack of knowledge on the subject, and I am sorry if my post came off as aggressive. I also hear people with these same arguments and it's just clear that they don't know the regulations of the "loan forgiveness" program. It's really quite strict and even if you are part of the program, you still have to pay your loan payments for 10 full years, which means that it's likely you'll pay off most, if not all, of your loans. Obviously it depends on how much you owe. 

I am a law student and at the end, I will have between $100,000-$120,000 in student loan debt. I spend my free time volunteering in a domestic abuse shelter. I would LOVE to work for them when I graduate, but their legal staff makes about $40,000-$50,000 at the manager level. Meaning I would make less than that, but I strongly believe it's a wonderful cause to work for. With interest, working a job like that, it would take me 50 years to pay back my loans. I could go work for a firm that would pay me $150,000 a year, but if I choose to pursue my passion, I cannot hope to make more than 1/3 of that. So a loan forgiveness program would be my saving grace. I would be able to work in public service and still look forward to a time where I don't owe the government money. It's also a way of encouraging people in my position to consider taking these low-paying public service jobs. Does that make sense? 

Now, I agree with you when you say not everyone should have loan forgiveness. If I take a firm job and earn six figures, I should pay back every cent of what I owe because I would be ABLE to do so. 

I hope that this helps clarify what student loan forgiveness is!

Yes, It does clarify the program for me thanks.  As long as there is no abuse of the program I will support it for people in the public service, but will continue to have a strong stance on those who just want a free ride because they feel entitled.  I am however very proud of my FI for working hard and paying off a large percentage of his student loans thus far.  He will have them paid off right before the wedding, and we will be able to afford to buy our first home due to hard work and savings.  I only hope that this program helps those that actually need it, like yourself, and not the kids who decided to go to college and major in partying. 

You know, from my experience, the only people majoring in partying were those had their parents paying for college. 

Yeah, there is obviously a balance to be struck, but a generation of people stuck in under-paying jobs, with crushing debt, and unable/significantly delayed in making it too major financial milestones like home ownership, getting married, starting a family, saving for retirement, etc. isn't good for any nation. 

I went to a large state university and there were plenty of students on scholarship and on loans that were partying all the time and matriculating into their major.  My parents paid for my education so I worked hard to get that degree.  I rarely went out and focused on my education.  On Saturday nights I had study groups while everyone else went out and partied. Just because my parents were able to pay for my education did not mean I pissed it away partying.  Because of my hard work I was able to get a good paying job out of college and am currently working my way up.  I'm am getting married and we are purchasing a house.  My FI had so many student loans when he graduated and we are still able to purchase a home without using any type of program.  We are able to put down 20% on our home.  So that is a generalization that just because someone has student loans doesn't mean they aren't able to reach financial milestones.

I didn't generalize anymore then you did. I also didn't imply you partied it up. Talk about student loans puts people on the defensive. It is a sensitive issue. My FI was fortunate enough that his parents paid for his schooling. I was not. I am over a 100k in debt, the only reason I am able to look forward to buying a house one day is because FI is well off financially. But we're years from buying a home because of my loans. I worked my ass off in college I worked a work study job during the school year, and worked retail during breaks. When I graduated, no one was hiring in my field without 5 years experience. I couldn't afford an unpaid internship, and couldn't find any work that paid enough to stay in the city even with roommates. So, I moved back to my smalltown with even more limited openings. I couldn't even get a bank teller job. I worked retail and overnight Fedex to make ends meet. And even then, it wasn't enough to move on. I am lucky I was able to make the jump to sales. But I still wouldn't be able to buy a house in a few years without FI. And that has nothing to do with not working hard enough. Tl:dr. Not everyone with outrageous student loans has them cause they're lazy, so if you want people to extend you the courtesy of not assuming you were shotgunning beers on your parents dime, please extend the courtesy of not assuming everyone with crazy student loans just wants a free ride and would be fine if they just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and worked harder.

I think that finding a job is definitely the most difficult thing a person can do right now.  I graduated in a major where jobs were abundant no matter where I lived.  It also happened to be a high paying career path, thus making it easier to get out of debt than the average person.  My FI also graduated with a degree in the science field and was able to pay back the majority of his loans from just his job.  But, he didn't have any less loans that the average college student.  Obviously the high cost of education is a big issue.  The other issue is that people are majoring in careers that may be in low demand so when they get out of college they can't find a job.  It happens all the time.  Yes, people may not be able to study and do the jobs that are in demand but choosing a major that has a positive career outlook is half the battle.  It doesn't mean that any one is lazy that they can't pay off their loans it just means that the job market doesn't have their job in demand.  With a little research during college students can earn a degree that will not pigeonhole them into a specific job.  This is because in 10 years that job could become obsolete.  A good example of that right now is a teaching degree.  Teaching is a very good job with a livable salary.  Unfortunately full-time teachers are not in demand right now due to budget cuts in districts.  I know many friends who went to school for teaching and still cannot get more than a substitute job.  This is because this job in no longer in high demand as there are less spots to fill.  If someone were to couple their teaching degree with various certifications such as special education or double major in something like psychology they will be more marketable and more likely to find a job.  It sounds like when you are done with your law program you will have an easier time finding a job.  

FWIW, you have me confused with a different poster.  I have a BFA in animation, which had great career prospects when I started college. Friends who were able to tough it out are doing decently well in the field now, but most have changed fields, financial stability varies. 

We can't all be scientists. For one thing, it would make jobs considerably less abundant for scientists. 

bananasplit472001

Yes, I am well aware of the concept that there would be less jobs for scientists if everyone became one.  I also understand that there is a changing market, which is why I stated that it would be best that students have maybe a double major, a major and a minor that are somewhat complete opposites.  This would allow the person to be more marketable when they graduate and not be pigeonholed into one career path IF the market were to change in the future.  For example my Major was Food Science with a minor in psychology.  Very different career path and I studied both extensively as well as took on internships in both.  When I was applying for jobs I got 1 offer in each field because I applied for jobs that fit my skills.  You can't have a degree in one field and expect to get a job in that exact field just because you earned the degree.  Having a degree does not guarantee that you will have a job, it just guarantee's you will have a certain set of skills.

chibiyui

bananasplit472001 said:

Yes, I am well aware of the concept that there would be less jobs for scientists if everyone became one.  I also understand that there is a changing market, which is why I stated that it would be best that students have maybe a double major, a major and a minor that are somewhat complete opposites.  This would allow the person to be more marketable when they graduate and not be pigeonholed into one career path IF the market were to change in the future.  For example my Major was Food Science with a minor in psychology.  Very different career path and I studied both extensively as well as took on internships in both.  When I was applying for jobs I got 1 offer in each field because I applied for jobs that fit my skills.  You can't have a degree in one field and expect to get a job in that exact field just because you earned the degree.  Having a degree does not guarantee that you will have a job, it just guarantee's you will have a certain set of skills.

Wait, there are jobs that only require a minor in psych? 

Having multiple degrees also don't guarantee a job. Nothing guarantees a job, which is why you have multiple posters on this thread who have gone back to school to try and broaden their skill set to find a job. And we end up farther in debt, trying to get ourselves out of debt. 

But it's sure as hell easier to hold out and wait for a job in your field if you aren't dodging collections calls. 

bananasplit472001

chibiyui said:

bananasplit472001 said:

Yes, I am well aware of the concept that there would be less jobs for scientists if everyone became one.  I also understand that there is a changing market, which is why I stated that it would be best that students have maybe a double major, a major and a minor that are somewhat complete opposites.  This would allow the person to be more marketable when they graduate and not be pigeonholed into one career path IF the market were to change in the future.  For example my Major was Food Science with a minor in psychology.  Very different career path and I studied both extensively as well as took on internships in both.  When I was applying for jobs I got 1 offer in each field because I applied for jobs that fit my skills.  You can't have a degree in one field and expect to get a job in that exact field just because you earned the degree.  Having a degree does not guarantee that you will have a job, it just guarantee's you will have a certain set of skills.

Wait, there are jobs that only require a minor in psych? 

Having multiple degrees also don't guarantee a job. Nothing guarantees a job, which is why you have multiple posters on this thread who have gone back to school to try and broaden their skill set to find a job. And we end up farther in debt, trying to get ourselves out of debt. 

But it's sure as hell easier to hold out and wait for a job in your field if you aren't dodging collections calls. 

Absolutely, you can find a job with just your minor.  It was for a Mental Health Associate in a large hospital in my area.  If you actually take the time to gain knowledge and skills for something you just have a minor in, you can get a job.  I of course took an internship for my minor.  Also I beat out over 200 applicants for 3 spots because I had a diverse background and my major was not psychology.  Just having a degree in something does not mean you should only apply for jobs in that field.  People need to think outside the box and really make sure they have a wide range of skills.  Going back to school is a very good way.  If it will put you even further into debt I'm not sure that that is the best option.  Yes, taking unpaid internships is not the most ideal situation, but what about having a part-time job in the field where you do not need a degree?  A good example is a nursing assistant.  Many do not have degrees just a certification that take a few months.  How about a quick summer job at a summer camp as an instructor (ie: Art, science, sign language, cooking, computer, foreign language).  Use skills you already have or ones that interest you and you will succeed.  If you are holding out and waiting for a job it may never come.  It is a very competitive job market right now.  It is not enough just to meet the minimum requirements.  In many cases going back to school to get a better degree and put yourself further into debt, is a bad idea.  

Just out of curiosity if having 2 degrees will not guarantee you a job then why are so many posters advocating going back to school to earn another degree?  

chibiyui

bananasplit472001 said:

chibiyui said:

bananasplit472001 said:

Yes, I am well aware of the concept that there would be less jobs for scientists if everyone became one.  I also understand that there is a changing market, which is why I stated that it would be best that students have maybe a double major, a major and a minor that are somewhat complete opposites.  This would allow the person to be more marketable when they graduate and not be pigeonholed into one career path IF the market were to change in the future.  For example my Major was Food Science with a minor in psychology.  Very different career path and I studied both extensively as well as took on internships in both.  When I was applying for jobs I got 1 offer in each field because I applied for jobs that fit my skills.  You can't have a degree in one field and expect to get a job in that exact field just because you earned the degree.  Having a degree does not guarantee that you will have a job, it just guarantee's you will have a certain set of skills.

Wait, there are jobs that only require a minor in psych? 

Having multiple degrees also don't guarantee a job. Nothing guarantees a job, which is why you have multiple posters on this thread who have gone back to school to try and broaden their skill set to find a job. And we end up farther in debt, trying to get ourselves out of debt. 

But it's sure as hell easier to hold out and wait for a job in your field if you aren't dodging collections calls. 

Absolutely, you can find a job with just your minor.  It was for a Mental Health Associate in a large hospital in my area.  If you actually take the time to gain knowledge and skills for something you just have a minor in, you can get a job.  I of course took an internship for my minor.  Also I beat out over 200 applicants for 3 spots because I had a diverse background and my major was not psychology.  Just having a degree in something does not mean you should only apply for jobs in that field.  People need to think outside the box and really make sure they have a wide range of skills.  Going back to school is a very good way.  If it will put you even further into debt I'm not sure that that is the best option.  Yes, taking unpaid internships is not the most ideal situation, but what about having a part-time job in the field where you do not need a degree?  A good example is a nursing assistant.  Many do not have degrees just a certification that take a few months.  How about a quick summer job at a summer camp as an instructor (ie: Art, science, sign language, cooking, computer, foreign language).  Use skills you already have or ones that interest you and you will succeed.  If you are holding out and waiting for a job it may never come.  It is a very competitive job market right now.  It is not enough just to meet the minimum requirements.  In many cases going back to school to get a better degree and put yourself further into debt, is a bad idea.  

Just out of curiosity if having 2 degrees will not guarantee you a job then why are so many posters advocating going back to school to earn another degree?  

Out of curiosity, were your internships paid or unpaid? Did you do them doing the school year or summer break? And did you actually work a job while you were going to school? Cause it's super easy to say "oh, just work part-time while you work a 40 hour a week unpaid internship" it's a little harder to actually do it. 

Why did you go to college for a degree to begin with? Because you thought it would get you a job. If you're in a position where you can't find a job in your field, other jobs that pay enough to live on require a different degree, and you can't find other work, what would you do?

Also, my comment about the psych minor was somewhat sarcastic, because psych is kinda known as a field you have to specialize in to get anywhere. 

bananasplit472001

chibiyui said:

bananasplit472001 said:

chibiyui said:

bananasplit472001 said:

Yes, I am well aware of the concept that there would be less jobs for scientists if everyone became one.  I also understand that there is a changing market, which is why I stated that it would be best that students have maybe a double major, a major and a minor that are somewhat complete opposites.  This would allow the person to be more marketable when they graduate and not be pigeonholed into one career path IF the market were to change in the future.  For example my Major was Food Science with a minor in psychology.  Very different career path and I studied both extensively as well as took on internships in both.  When I was applying for jobs I got 1 offer in each field because I applied for jobs that fit my skills.  You can't have a degree in one field and expect to get a job in that exact field just because you earned the degree.  Having a degree does not guarantee that you will have a job, it just guarantee's you will have a certain set of skills.

Wait, there are jobs that only require a minor in psych? 

Having multiple degrees also don't guarantee a job. Nothing guarantees a job, which is why you have multiple posters on this thread who have gone back to school to try and broaden their skill set to find a job. And we end up farther in debt, trying to get ourselves out of debt. 

But it's sure as hell easier to hold out and wait for a job in your field if you aren't dodging collections calls. 

Absolutely, you can find a job with just your minor.  It was for a Mental Health Associate in a large hospital in my area.  If you actually take the time to gain knowledge and skills for something you just have a minor in, you can get a job.  I of course took an internship for my minor.  Also I beat out over 200 applicants for 3 spots because I had a diverse background and my major was not psychology.  Just having a degree in something does not mean you should only apply for jobs in that field.  People need to think outside the box and really make sure they have a wide range of skills.  Going back to school is a very good way.  If it will put you even further into debt I'm not sure that that is the best option.  Yes, taking unpaid internships is not the most ideal situation, but what about having a part-time job in the field where you do not need a degree?  A good example is a nursing assistant.  Many do not have degrees just a certification that take a few months.  How about a quick summer job at a summer camp as an instructor (ie: Art, science, sign language, cooking, computer, foreign language).  Use skills you already have or ones that interest you and you will succeed.  If you are holding out and waiting for a job it may never come.  It is a very competitive job market right now.  It is not enough just to meet the minimum requirements.  In many cases going back to school to get a better degree and put yourself further into debt, is a bad idea.  

Just out of curiosity if having 2 degrees will not guarantee you a job then why are so many posters advocating going back to school to earn another degree?  

Out of curiosity, were your internships paid or unpaid? Did you do them doing the school year or summer break? And did you actually work a job while you were going to school? Cause it's super easy to say "oh, just work part-time while you work a 40 hour a week unpaid internship" it's a little harder to actually do it. 

One was paid one was unpaid.  Both were taken during the school year on full course loads.  I did work a part-time job during school.  My first two years I was a retail associate at old navy and then Anthropologie and i babysat a family once a week, during my junior year I worked my unpaid internship (12 hours a week- psychology) and a job (daycare during the week- every afternoon, nanny on the weekends).  During my Senior year I went to school and did not have a job as my internship was paid (12 hours).

Why did you go to college for a degree to begin with? Because you thought it would get you a job. If you're in a position where you can't find a job in your field, other jobs that pay enough to live on require a different degree, and you can't find other work, what would you do?

I went to college because I wanted to be a nurse.  You need a degree to be a nurse.  I hated It and realized I loved nutrition and food so I became a Food Science major with a minor in psychology because I was interested in it.  When I switched my major I did not have a specific job I wanted.  All i knew was that I "wanted to work in a lab".  You can work in a lab without a college degree, but I went forward because the better jobs require a degree.  

If you are in a position where you can't find a job in your field and other jobs require a different degree then you need to take a good paying job elsewhere not in your field.  I would apply to basic entry-level jobs like administrative assistant, sales, marketing etc. all of which just any need a college degree to get.  Many companies are looking to hire diverse individuals with a wide range of skills.  Many companies will not hire someone with just a degree in the field.   

Also, my comment about the psych minor was somewhat sarcastic, because psych is kinda known as a field you have to specialize in to get anywhere. 

Sorry, sarcasm is hard to detect online.  Yes, you do have to get a master's to become a therapist or a counselor.  I was just stating that you can get a job with just a minor even if it did not pay as well as the hire level job.

jennyleigh16

bananasplit472001 said:

jenbaer16 said:

I'm on my third school program trying to find something where someone will hire me for a career. I've done internships and field placements in non-profits who could not afford to hire me after I graduated. I worked my ass off in three part-time jobs at once while going to school full-time. I'm constantly sick from not getting enough sleep. I had no help from my parents and I live with my FI and pay all my own bills. I commute over an hour to every job. I resent the implication that I only have student loans because I didn't work hard enough. 

My first question would be why are you back in school on your third program?  What were your first 2 programs that you couldn't get a job in?  Just curious.

@bananasplit472001
First program was 2 year Travel and Tourism diploma. It was very geared towards becoming a travel agent in a call center which was not something I was interested in but there was a 2 year successful post-secondary prerequisite to get into my second program. 

1 year Event Management Graduate Certificate. I really enjoyed it, am passionate about events, did well naturally but I fell into the dreaded "I can't get a job because I don't have experience because I can't get a job because I don't have experience" cycle. When I started the program I was told it was easy to find jobs but I graduated into a time where companies were laying off staff, not hiring party planners. I had put in 4 years as a banquet server trying to move up into an assistant event coordinator position and just when they were starting to talk about that idea the company I was working for was bought out by another catering company and I would be starting at the bottom again. 
I'm now taking online classes in Business Administration, majoring in Human Resources Management. More of a big girl career program hopefully. I'm so ready to be done with shift work and settle into a set schedule. 

Tl;dr? : Travel and Tourism, Event Management, Business Admin (Human Resources Management) 

bananasplit472001

jenbaer16 said:

bananasplit472001 said:

jenbaer16 said:

I'm on my third school program trying to find something where someone will hire me for a career. I've done internships and field placements in non-profits who could not afford to hire me after I graduated. I worked my ass off in three part-time jobs at once while going to school full-time. I'm constantly sick from not getting enough sleep. I had no help from my parents and I live with my FI and pay all my own bills. I commute over an hour to every job. I resent the implication that I only have student loans because I didn't work hard enough. 

My first question would be why are you back in school on your third program?  What were your first 2 programs that you couldn't get a job in?  Just curious.

@bananasplit472001
First program was 2 year Travel and Tourism diploma. It was very geared towards becoming a travel agent in a call center which was not something I was interested in but there was a 2 year successful post-secondary prerequisite to get into my second program. 

1 year Event Management Graduate Certificate. I really enjoyed it, am passionate about events, did well naturally but I fell into the dreaded "I can't get a job because I don't have experience because I can't get a job because I don't have experience" cycle. When I started the program I was told it was easy to find jobs but I graduated into a time where companies were laying off staff, not hiring party planners. I had put in 4 years as a banquet server trying to move up into an assistant event coordinator position and just when they were starting to talk about that idea the company I was working for was bought out by another catering company and I would be starting at the bottom again. 
I'm now taking online classes in Business Administration, majoring in Human Resources Management. More of a big girl career program hopefully. I'm so ready to be done with shift work and settle into a set schedule. 

Tl;dr? : Travel and Tourism, Event Management, Business Admin (Human Resources Management) 

I agree that travel agents really are not used anymore.  You should have no problem getting a job in Human resources.  Agencies are always hiring.  I wish you luck in finding your career.