Problems father/daughter dance now..

perdonami

My aunt has been kind enough to host a co-ed bridal shower for me and FI. Whenever she consults me about anything, I always explain that whatever she chooses I am sure will be wonderful to the point I sound like a broken record. She kept pushing me to provide her with a guest list and I explained I need time to ask FI who he'd be comfortable inviting to a co-ed bridal shower from his side of family/friends. She keeps pushing and asks if I'd like to come over to talk about it. I agreed since FI will be able to accompany me and he can let her know then. 

However, the invite was not intended to discuss bridal shower details, it was to badger me about my father. She asked me if I was having a first dance with FI. I told her we were planning on it and that we were considering taking dance lessons as a fun date night and to relieve some anxiety for FI. My aunt encouraged taking the dance lessons saying that it would make him more comfortable to dance with his mom. I excitedly agreed that I thought it would be so sweet as I know how excited she is to see her son get married and how meaningful it will be for her. My aunt then quickly sidelined me with, "yes, and you will also have to dance with your father for the same reason." FFS... I can't keep doing this! I just shook my head no as she continued to describe different ways I could do it. She kept repeating how it will only be 30 seconds and that I need to be more considerate of other people's feelings because these things will be remembered long after the wedding. I just kept shaking my head no and looking down at the table because I was getting so upset. Too make matters worse, my fiance didn't support me and said, "yeah, its only 30 seconds." 

After they were done, I said, "I am not breaking etiquette with choices in waving these traditions, as that is what they are, traditions. My wedding is not traditional and I don't understand why I have to feel uncomfortable at my own wedding." I later explained that if I have to also wave the first dance tradition as well in order to save feelings, then I will have to do that but I will not be dancing with my father. My aunt then began reiterating some of the concerns my brother has had over the wedding that I am not involving anyone on my side of the family, and as she is apologizing to FI tells me its just about FI's family. I reminded my aunt we have a small family, said brother has been offered to be an usher, my escort down the aisle, a bridal attendant and has declined all offers. I further explained that my other brother hates weddings and FI did not select him to be a groomsmen and that is FI's business. I also reminded her that she has been very involved in the wedding. She then said she supported my brother's decision to not walk me down the aisle while father is still alive. FFS.. I repeated, father will not walk me. My cousin is. I will not be dancing with father. No more discussion on this.

I think I handled it well but its been getting to me and I needed to vent. Sometimes I feel like I am just being selfish and its no big deal, just "30 seconds right?" But, it would mean nothing to me and its not like I am completely excluding him. Just I will not be participating in any of the emotional traditions as they will mean nothing to me and I will be extremely uncomfortable. 

Thanks for letting me vent.

</rant>

KittyKaty20

I would decline her offer of a shower.

She doesn't really care about your feelings or respect you when she continues to harass you about decisions you've made.

Your FI needs to have your back-he isn't committing his life to your aunt, so he should have your side in most all things.

And 30 seconds can be an eternity...even championship bull riders can only go 8 seconds.

I know you wanted to vent; I just wanted to have your back & let you know you aren't being unreasonable.

RebeccaFlower

1) 30 seconds would be the shortest dance in history.... it's more like two minutes. They are minimizing it. 

2) This is one place I would totally not bend. As for your FI, you need to have a serious discussion about being on your side. This means even when he isn't for real, in public, you are a unit. 

OliveOilsMom

The come to Jesus meeting with FI needs to happen now.  If he cannot have your back now against your relatives, then that's a flag being thrown up in the wind.  Even if he feels differently than you on a topic, he needs to support you in public and then ask you more about your decision later in private.

Decline the offer of the shower from your Aunt.  And tell her why!  If she can come out and badger you about dancing with your father, then you can tell her that because she won't respect your wishes, you cannot allow her to throw you this shower.  I would think that she would invite your dad to it, since it's co-ed, with or without your permission.  Also, tell her that the next time she brings up the father/daughter dance you will be leaving immediately.  Tell her it's a topic not up for discussion.

melbenso

You did the right thing.  And your aunt needs to mind her own business.  You get to choose who walks you down the aisle.  You get to choose who you dance with (for any and all dances). 

HisGirlFriday13

You and your FI need to have a come-to-Jesus talk and you need to have it like yesterday.

Decline her offer of the shower. Make it clear that you are doing so because she either cannot or will not respect your wishes about the father-daughter dance.

She keeps getting involved because you keep letting her. Cut that flow of information off. Like now.

s-aries8990

Yep - talk to FI and make sure he has your back. You don't want to involve your father - No means No.

I agree - decline this aunt's offer to host a shower. Not worth it. It will show her you mean business.

phira

Am I misreading the initial post? It sounds like this is entirely about the OP's side of the family, and not even a little bit about her fiance (beyond the OP explaining that her fiance didn't have to ask her brother to be a groomsman if he didn't want to).

OP, I'd decline your aunt's offer to host anything, and avoid her like the plague until the wedding is over so she can't corner you.

HisGirlFriday13

phira said:

Am I misreading the initial post? It sounds like this is entirely about the OP's side of the family, and not even a little bit about her fiance (beyond the OP explaining that her fiance didn't have to ask her brother to be a groomsman if he didn't want to).

OP, I'd decline your aunt's offer to host anything, and avoid her like the plague until the wedding is over so she can't corner you.

@phira Bottom of the second paragraph -- OP says he FI agreed with the aunt that it's only 30 seconds and she says 'my FI didn't support me.'

Thats why we're on about the FI.

OliveOilsMom

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Am I misreading the initial post? It sounds like this is entirely about the OP's side of the family, and not even a little bit about her fiance (beyond the OP explaining that her fiance didn't have to ask her brother to be a groomsman if he didn't want to).

OP, I'd decline your aunt's offer to host anything, and avoid her like the plague until the wedding is over so she can't corner you.

@phira Bottom of the second paragraph -- OP says he FI agreed with the aunt that it's only 30 seconds and she says 'my FI didn't support me.' Thats why we're on about the FI.

Also, without going back to read the first post.  FI was also against OP picking who she wanted to walk her down the aisle. 

phira

Ah, never mind! Fiance needs to get his act together.

HisGirlFriday13

OliveOilsMom said:

HisGirlFriday13 said:

Am I misreading the initial post? It sounds like this is entirely about the OP's side of the family, and not even a little bit about her fiance (beyond the OP explaining that her fiance didn't have to ask her brother to be a groomsman if he didn't want to).

OP, I'd decline your aunt's offer to host anything, and avoid her like the plague until the wedding is over so she can't corner you.

@phira Bottom of the second paragraph -- OP says he FI agreed with the aunt that it's only 30 seconds and she says 'my FI didn't support me.' Thats why we're on about the FI.

Also, without going back to read the first post.  FI was also against OP picking who she wanted to walk her down the aisle. 

Good memory! I'd forgotten that, which also goes to the argument of 'OP and FI need to have a come-to-Jesus conversation and they need to have it like yesterday.'

MrsMack10612

@perdonami - If I recall some of your other posts; there are a lot of things about your wedding that you are caving in for the sake of others.  You need to continue to stand up for yourself and not let people make this about them and not you & FI.

Agree with others that you need to have a chat with FI about having your back and standing by you/your decisions.

As for the father issue - die on this hill.  I had similar circumstance in that I did not have my father walk me (one of my brothers did) nor was there a specific father/daughter dance (no mother/son either).  He and I had a "fast" dance during the course of the reception, but that was it.  I felt very strongly that due to his actions, he lost the right/privilege of that honor.  Luckily no one but him questioned my decision so I didn't have the battle you are facing, but I understand how strongly you feel about all the NO on those two things.  Stand your ground, it's worth it.

kitty8403

I probably will do a father-daughter dance. That being said, it's kind of a weird tradition, like "father-daughter dates," and totally unnecessary. It does not matter what your reasoning is or what he has done. The fact that this issue makes you uncomfortable should be enough. Your FI needs to respect that, and your aunt needs to back the heck off. If she can't be trusted to do that, you need to decline the shower.

kitty8403

Do you want to dance with anyone? If not, that's your right. If you want to dance with somebody else, why not do a fun dance with your aisle escort instead?
Is your mother in the picture? If so, would you like to do a non-traditional fast dance with her?

Jen4948

I think you'd better have that come-to-Jesus talk with your FI about having your back at all times, including in the presence of others.  His undermining you and disrespecting your decision not to dance with your father the way he did has to stop, yesterday.

Your aunt needs to leave it alone too, and so does everyone else in your family.  If she won't, decline the shower.  You might need to do that anyway.

Put out the word: "The subject of my father at my wedding is closed.  I will not walk down the aisle with him or dance with him, and I am not willing to hear any more disapproval from anyone on the subject.  It is not up to anyone but me.  There is to be no more pressure on me to treat someone who didn't behave like a good father to me with honor at my wedding."

I hope you don't have to elope or even break up with your FI, but if nobody can respect your feelings on the matter, I think you have some very serious issues to work out, not only with your FI, but with your whole family.

perdonami

kitty8403 said:

Do you want to dance with anyone? If not, that's your right. If you want to dance with somebody else, why not do a fun dance with your aisle escort instead? Is your mother in the picture? If so, would you like to do a non-traditional fast dance with her?

Unfortunately, my mother also suffers from addiction and has not been in the picture for the past 15 years. Which interestingly enough I have been hounded about as well. Family members seem to be very concerned that I extend her an invite. Her presence would cause a lot of upset to my guests as she has done a lot of harm, especially to my father. I asked my father if he would be okay with her attending the wedding, and he said, "of course, its your day." Then he proceeded to a full blown rant about all the horrible things she has done. Yeah, I don't think he is okay with it and I could care less either way.

Out of respect for my father she will not be invited.

perdonami

Jen4948 said:

I hope you don't have to elope or even break up with your FI, but if nobody can respect your feelings on the matter, I think you have some very serious issues to work out, not only with your FI, but with your whole family.

I agree.. my family is very dysfunctional as a result of growing up with two parents who were hard core drug abusers. As I have said in a previous post another poster's thread, I really pulled hard away from my family as a result to the point my FI calls me a "white sheep." 

A friend of mine says that it was this blatant pull away from my family that has caused them to act out so much through all this wedding planning. Her theory is that by marrying FI, I am permanently pulling away from them and it may be painful for them since they have not made any changes in their lives. Almost as if I am giving them a slap across the face that I am better than them by not living the same way that they do and this wedding symbolizes that. 

I think its all silly but I am not shocked or surprised by the way my family is reacting; In fact I anticipated it, just not as bad as it has become so far.

perdonami

MrsMack10612 said:

As for the father issue - die on this hill.  I had similar circumstance in that I did not have my father walk me (one of my brothers did) nor was there a specific father/daughter dance (no mother/son either).  He and I had a "fast" dance during the course of the reception, but that was it.  I felt very strongly that due to his actions, he lost the right/privilege of that honor.  Luckily no one but him questioned my decision so I didn't have the battle you are facing, but I understand how strongly you feel about all the NO on those two things.  Stand your ground, it's worth it.

I intend to die on this hill. No one on my side of the family is helping financially or emotionally in this wedding planning. Lots of opinions (some hurtful) to offer, but no real help. 

My dad is so absent about this wedding I could have it and not tell him and he wouldn't be the wiser. But, sure lets have him give me away and have a special dance. Perhaps we could reminisce about my childhood.. </sarcasm>.

perdonami

KittyKaty20 said:

And 30 seconds can be an eternity...even championship bull riders can only go 8 seconds.This made me laugh out loud.

I know you wanted to vent; I just wanted to have your back & let you know you aren't being unreasonable. Thank you. 

Kauris

I also wanted to join the bandwagon to tell you, you are not wrong, you are not a bad person, you have every right to do the things you are doing, you should expect complete support from the person you are marrying. (Bolded because, he needs to get this before you marry him!)

Also, years ago, my therapist gave me a list of things I had a right to, I'm going to paste it here and hope it helps you set safe and assertive boundaries with these people...

1. You have the right to ask for what You want.
   
2. You have the right to say no to requests or demands You can’t meet.
   
3. You have the right to express Your feelings, positive or negative.
   
4. You have the right to change Your mind.
   
5. You have the right to make mistakes and not have to be perfect.
   
6. You have the right to determine Your own priorities.
   
7. You have the right not to be responsible for others’ behavior, actions feelings, or problems.
   
8. You have the right to expect honesty from others.
   
9. You have the right to be angry at someone You love.
   
10. You have the right to feel scared and say “I’m afraid.”
    
11. You have the right not to give reasons for Your behavior.
    
12. You have the right to make decisions based on Your feelings.
    
13. You have the right to Your own needs for personal time.
    
14. You have the right to be playful and frivolous.
    
15. You have the right to be healthier than those around you.
    
16. You have the right to be in a non abusive environment.
    
17. You have the right to make friends and be comfortable around people.
    

perdonami

Thank you everyone for your support and advice. I am planning on taking my aunt out to lunch to explain to her why I am uncomfortable with these father/daughter traditions and then explain I hope that she can respect why we won't be discussing it anymore. 

I can tell she is trying really hard to be a part of the wedding and I am trying to give her the benefit of doubt, that she may not fully understand why I am uncomfortable with these traditions. I think she may be under the impression that I am uncomfortable with the way he looks, hence why she is paying for his dental implants and a new suit. But, I really don't care how he looks, just his addiction and until that changes we can't have a healthy relationship. 

phira

@kasmith1 That is a really wonderful list. Thank you for sharing it!

perdonami

So, I had the come to jesus conversation with FI and it didn't go to well. I expressed my feelings on how it was inappropriate to side with my aunt and not be supportive of me. He said that he agrees with my aunt but that he has not badgered me about it since. He reminded me again that it is just 30 seconds, that my father loves me and that he is going to die soon. 

I asked FI if he thought my dad loved me to death? He said yes.

I said, no, he loves meth to death. Always has.

I tried reminding him how awful it makes me feel that I am so alone on this. That he can't possibly see my point of view, how this is so painful for me. He said he has lived through my point of view for the past 6 years and that he gets it. He started spouting out some b/s that its because I think he is beneath me, that if I touched him somehow I will stoop down to his level. I just started crying. That is so not it, I wish he didn't view me that way.

And I am still crying.. I feel silly telling my sob story on an internet forum but its so late and I have no one to talk too. Not that anyone will understand me. I feel so alone. I am starting to think this wedding needs to come to a halt. Maybe I can forward the funds to a future date to give me more time to think this all through. This can't be right if I feel this awful.

@crunchymomaof2 you're right, I do need a break. 

getaclue44

I haven't posted on your thread before, but that is BS. Your fiance should be backing you 100%.  My hubby might not always agree with me, but I know that I always have his backing when it comes to the big stuff and especially in front of others.

Honestly, if I was you I would halt your plans.  If he won't back you on something this major what will happen down the line?  Not sure if you are going to counseling or not, but that might help.  I also think your fiance should go with you.

I wish you luck.

HisGirlFriday13

perdonami said:

So, I had the come to jesus conversation with FI and it didn't go to well. I expressed my feelings on how it was inappropriate to side with my aunt and not be supportive of me. He said that he agrees with my aunt but that he has not badgered me about it since. He reminded me again that it is just 30 seconds, that my father loves me and that he is going to die soon. 

I asked FI if he thought my dad loved me to death? He said yes.

I said, no, he loves meth to death. Always has.

I tried reminding him how awful it makes me feel that I am so alone on this. That he can't possibly see my point of view, how this is so painful for me. He said he has lived through my point of view for the past 6 years and that he gets it. He started spouting out some b/s that its because I think he is beneath me, that if I touched him somehow I will stoop down to his level. I just started crying. That is so not it, I wish he didn't view me that way.

And I am still crying.. I feel silly telling my sob story on an internet forum but its so late and I have no one to talk too. Not that anyone will understand me. I feel so alone. I am starting to think this wedding needs to come to a halt. Maybe I can forward the funds to a future date to give me more time to think this all through. This can't be right if I feel this awful.

@crunchymomaof2 you're right, I do need a break. 

This concerns me a lot, this whole thing.

My husband's mother claims she loves him. Sends him cards all the time that profess how proud she is of him.

It doesn't make up for the beatings she inflicted upon him as a kid.

She fully expected the mother-son dance. She wasn't even invited to the wedding.

When she and DH's father tried to get me to change his mind, I straight-up told them I'd back whatever play he made and that if he didn't want them at the wedding, neither did I.

You have the absolute right to have your FI have your back. The fact that he doesn't is a HUGE red flag to me.

OliveOilsMom

I think you do need to at least postpone the wedding.  Your FI obviously doesn't realize how hard having someone who is an addict in your immediate family.  Maybe @kmmssg would have a better suggestion, but I suggest taking your FI to an Al-Anon meeting, so that he can hopefully fully realize how hard it can be to live with an addict and how it can effect the non-addicts around them.

I also think that you two need to get your own counseling stat.  If he won't go with you, go without him.  If you can, I would go to counseling by yourself and to couples counseling.

We are here for you to vent, discuss things.  We are a neutral party in all of this and can probably see things in a different light than you may be able to.

Jen4948

perdonami said:

So, I had the come to jesus conversation with FI and it didn't go to well. I expressed my feelings on how it was inappropriate to side with my aunt and not be supportive of me. He said that he agrees with my aunt but that he has not badgered me about it since. He reminded me again that it is just 30 seconds, that my father loves me and that he is going to die soon. 

I asked FI if he thought my dad loved me to death? He said yes.

I said, no, he loves meth to death. Always has.

I tried reminding him how awful it makes me feel that I am so alone on this. That he can't possibly see my point of view, how this is so painful for me. He said he has lived through my point of view for the past 6 years and that he gets it. He started spouting out some b/s that its because I think he is beneath me, that if I touched him somehow I will stoop down to his level. I just started crying. That is so not it, I wish he didn't view me that way.

And I am still crying.. I feel silly telling my sob story on an internet forum but its so late and I have no one to talk too. Not that anyone will understand me. I feel so alone. I am starting to think this wedding needs to come to a halt. Maybe I can forward the funds to a future date to give me more time to think this all through. This can't be right if I feel this awful.

@crunchymomaof2 you're right, I do need a break. 

I'm so sorry.  But if your FI won't have your back, then I think taking a break at the least is the best thing you can do-never mind your aunt or anyone else.  I strongly advise counseling for yourself if not as a couple so you can get help to get you through this.  Wishing you all the best.

<<<hugs>>>

chibiyui

I'm sorry you're going through this.

My father molested me as a child. FI knows this, and if FI ever suggested I should do a father/daughter dance with him, I would no longer have an FI.

I am concerned that not only does your FI not have your back, but that he's willing and able to make excuses for someone who hurt you so. At the very least postpone, but I think you need yo get out.

phira

One thing I've struggled with is that a heck of a lot of people don't understand that having a relationship with your family is a choice that we make.

My dad has a personality disorder that makes him very, very difficult to interact with. I have two siblings, and all three of us have struggled with him throughout our lives. He's always treated the three of us very differently, and we're three different people, so we all handle his treatment differently. The end result? My siblings choose to have a relationship with him. I choose not to.

The thing is, I could CHOOSE to have a relationship with him. There are books out there specifically written to help children of people with his personality disorder manage a relationship with their parent(s). I grew up seeing an amazing therapist, and I live in a city with plenty of great mental health professionals. I could go back to therapy, read every self-help book imaginable, and find a way to cope with a relationship with my dad.

But I choose not to do that. I've got plenty of reasons for it (crappy insurance doesn't cover therapy as completely as childhood insurance did, for example). But mainly, I just don't have it in me. I don't have the energy to deal with him. I get nothing out of a relationship with him except misery, stress, and anxiety. If he weren't a relative, absolutely NO ONE would be suggesting I keep him in my life.

One of the most insidious ways people try to convince me to have a relationship with him is by painting him as this sad man who loves me and just doesn't understand why I could be so cruel to him. Setting aside the fact that this man is 30 years my senior, and if anyone should be working hard to preserve a parent-child relationship, it should be him, this viewpoint is a serious misunderstanding of the situation. My decision to forgo a relationship with my father isn't based on some petty feud--it's based on the way he treats me, and the sheer amount of mental stress I have to endure to maintain the relationship.

And more importantly, while I believe my dad believes he loves me and my siblings, I don't actually think he loves us. There's no evidence to suggest he does. Every single interaction with him is transactional. He punishes by withholding help or information. He decides when he wants to help you and punishes you when you guess wrong.

So I choose to have no father instead of having one who makes me sick with anxiety. I've made my choice because it was the only way for me to stay sane (quite seriously). It doesn't matter if my choice makes my father sad, and it doesn't matter if he (thinks he) still loves me. Doesn't matter. My choice. The end. Actions have consequences.

You are the only person who can make that choice for yourself. And if your fiance doesn't get that, and if he won't back you up on it, then I need to tell you: do not marry him.

Maybe that means, "Do not marry him at all." Maybe it means, "Do not marry him soon." Maybe it means, "Do not marry him until he gets it."

But I can tell you, if my partner suggested that we invite my dad to our wedding and I dance with him for 30 seconds to make everyone else happy, then you can bet that either the wedding will be postponed until my partner realized how absolutely ABSURD that suggestion was, or the wedding would be off entirely.

MrsMack10612

I'm just going to agree with all the PPs.

Your FI should always have your back 100% and as phira so eloquently stated - who, family or otherwise, you choose to have a relationship is all your choice.

Good luck and lots of hugs.  This is not going to be easy.