Same Sex couples

Gizmo813

Two of my guests are married and share the same last name (both guys). How do I address the invitation envelope? 

AddieCake

How formal are you going? We didn't use titles, so I would have just put James and John Smith. 

You could also list both names like this: Mr. James Smith and Mr. John Smith

ETA:

Here is what Miss Manners says to do:

Use the plural form of "Mrs." or, in the case of two gentlemen, the plural form of "Mr." These are, respectively, "Mesdames" and "Mssrs" ("The Mesdames Sally and Betty Jones," "The Messrs. Trevor and William Cartwright").

All right, Miss Manners admits that these are odd plurals. But they are at least traditional and dignified.

Jen4948

I'd list them alphabetically, although it probably doesn't matter which order who listed in.

As @AddieCake says, you can use the two names without titles, put "Mr.," "Mrs.," or "Ms." on each name, or do it Miss Manners' way.

HisGirlFriday13

acolotti012 said:

I will be inviting 2 girls that just got married so it will be Mrs. Jane & Sally Smith. In my personal opinion, the "Messrs." looks really weird and I've never seen that before, but I'm not going with a "black tie event" type of wedding. It all depends on how formal you want it to be! I never thought of the alphabetical way that @Jen4948 said, but that is a good idea!

But then that's giving one of them a title and the other no title. I'd do 'Mrs. Jane and Mrs. Sally Smith,' so that you're showing that they're BOTH married (to each other, obvs).

My dad's cousin and his husband were invited to our wedding, and I addressed the invite: Mr. Robert and Mr. Aaron Jones, because 'Robert' was my relation.

I think as long as you acknowledge everyone's title (Mr. or Mrs.) and marital status (married), you're good.

VulgarGirl

I'm doing Mr. Tony and Mr. Steve Stark. Because the plural of Mr looks so weird to me and I keep reading it as messers. I'm not sure what that is...but it looks like a mess of some kind.

theartistformerlyknownas

I've read that Messrs. or Mmes. traditionally referred to grown, unmarried brothers or sisters. If I were married to another chick, I wouldn't really want to use the same title as was formerly bestowed upon "old maids." I'd go Mrs. Pink and Mrs. Yellow Ranger.

VulgarGirl

lolo883 said:

I've read that Messrs. or Mmes. traditionally referred to grown, unmarried brothers or sisters. If I were married to another chick, I wouldn't really want to use the same title as was formerly bestowed upon "old maids." I'd go Mrs. Pink and Mrs. Yellow Ranger.

I think I read something somewhere sometime that used the rules of how to address to unmarried siblings who live together as how to address to same sex couples. I was like no, no I'm FI sister. Believe I am not. The feelings I have for her are not sisterly feelings. But they were like "well no rules at exist and these are close enough" nope, nope, nope. Make new rules if non exist. Don't refer to me as my to-be-wife's sister.

theartistformerlyknownas

MagicInk said:

lolo883 said:

I've read that Messrs. or Mmes. traditionally referred to grown, unmarried brothers or sisters. If I were married to another chick, I wouldn't really want to use the same title as was formerly bestowed upon "old maids." I'd go Mrs. Pink and Mrs. Yellow Ranger.

I think I read something somewhere sometime that used the rules of how to address to unmarried siblings who live together as how to address to same sex couples. I was like no, no I'm FI sister. Believe I am not. The feelings I have for her are not sisterly feelings. But they were like "well no rules at exist and these are close enough" nope, nope, nope. Make new rules if non exist. Don't refer to me as my to-be-wife's sister.

Yeahhh... "no good way exists so let's stick with this old crappy way that is somewhat similar." Super reasoning.

Cookie Pusher

One of our invites went to a same-sex couple and we addressed it as Mrs. Jane and Mrs. Nancy Doe. On the inner envelope since we wanted it to be a little more casual (inner envelope came at no charge and kept the design of the invitation from being seen through just the outer envelope), we put Jane & Nancy Doe.

Gizmo813

I'm going to piggy-back another address wording question on my own thread, so I don't have to open another one.

Husband and wife. Both Dr's. Wife's name is hyphenated. Is it:

Dr. John Smith and Dr. Emily Jones-Smith

The names are both really long. (RN not used in above example.) I'm worried that it won't all fit on one line. I'm faux calligraphing my envelopes (regular writing with a calligraphy marker), and it takes up more space than a regular ol' pen. 

Is there an alternative? (I know I can't put them on two separate lines.) 

Jen4948

lilybet13 said:

lolo883 said:

I've read that Messrs. or Mmes. traditionally referred to grown, unmarried brothers or sisters. If I were married to another chick, I wouldn't really want to use the same title as was formerly bestowed upon "old maids." I'd go Mrs. Pink and Mrs. Yellow Ranger.

This is why I personally am not a fan of Messrs. or Mmes. Cool words that one doesn't see often, but it looks like you're addressing siblings.

Mmes. is the plural of Mrs., which is for married women.

theartistformerlyknownas

Jen4948 said:

lilybet13 said:

lolo883 said:

I've read that Messrs. or Mmes. traditionally referred to grown, unmarried brothers or sisters. If I were married to another chick, I wouldn't really want to use the same title as was formerly bestowed upon "old maids." I'd go Mrs. Pink and Mrs. Yellow Ranger.

This is why I personally am not a fan of Messrs. or Mmes. Cool words that one doesn't see often, but it looks like you're addressing siblings.

Mmes. is the plural of Mrs., which is for married women.

No, it's not. It's the plural of "madame," which means "my lady." It can be used in reference to married women, but is really equivalent to "Ms." Per the definition, "Madame must also be used in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman is married or not and in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman considers the usage as discriminating or disrespectful." If you knew a woman was unmarried, she would be addressed as "mademoiselle." I don't know if that had/has the same age connotations as "Miss" does now. But Mmes was absolutely used to address unmarried sisters in the past.

Jen4948

lolo883 said:

Jen4948 said:

lilybet13 said:

lolo883 said:

I've read that Messrs. or Mmes. traditionally referred to grown, unmarried brothers or sisters. If I were married to another chick, I wouldn't really want to use the same title as was formerly bestowed upon "old maids." I'd go Mrs. Pink and Mrs. Yellow Ranger.

This is why I personally am not a fan of Messrs. or Mmes. Cool words that one doesn't see often, but it looks like you're addressing siblings.

Mmes. is the plural of Mrs., which is for married women.

No, it's not. It's the plural of "madame," which means "my lady." It can be used in reference to married women, but is really equivalent to "Ms." Per the definition, "Madame must also be used in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman is married or not and in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman considers the usage as discriminating or disrespectful." If you knew a woman was unmarried, she would be addressed as "mademoiselle." I don't know if that had/has the same age connotations as "Miss" does now. But Mmes was absolutely used to address unmarried sisters in the past.

Maybe in French, but not in English today.  "Mrs." is for an individual married woman, and "Mmes." is the plural of Mrs.

HisGirlFriday13

Gizmo813 said:

I'm going to piggy-back another address wording question on my own thread, so I don't have to open another one.

Husband and wife. Both Dr's. Wife's name is hyphenated. Is it:

Dr. John Smith and Dr. Emily Jones-Smith

The names are both really long. (RN not used in above example.) I'm worried that it won't all fit on one line. I'm faux calligraphing my envelopes (regular writing with a calligraphy marker), and it takes up more space than a regular ol' pen. 

Is there an alternative? (I know I can't put them on two separate lines.) 

Dr. Bernadette Rostenkowski-Wolowitz

and

Mr. Howard Wolowitz

(Yeah, OK, I realise in your example they're both doctors, but the long-running joke on BBT that Howard 'just' has a Master's degree was too funny not to play into here.)

The 'and' signifies that they're married, so if you can't fit them both on one line, separate the lines and put 'and' in the middle.

theartistformerlyknownas

Jen4948 said:

lolo883 said:

Jen4948 said:

lilybet13 said:

lolo883 said:

I've read that Messrs. or Mmes. traditionally referred to grown, unmarried brothers or sisters. If I were married to another chick, I wouldn't really want to use the same title as was formerly bestowed upon "old maids." I'd go Mrs. Pink and Mrs. Yellow Ranger.

This is why I personally am not a fan of Messrs. or Mmes. Cool words that one doesn't see often, but it looks like you're addressing siblings.

Mmes. is the plural of Mrs., which is for married women.

No, it's not. It's the plural of "madame," which means "my lady." It can be used in reference to married women, but is really equivalent to "Ms." Per the definition, "Madame must also be used in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman is married or not and in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman considers the usage as discriminating or disrespectful." If you knew a woman was unmarried, she would be addressed as "mademoiselle." I don't know if that had/has the same age connotations as "Miss" does now. But Mmes was absolutely used to address unmarried sisters in the past.

Maybe in French, but not in English today.  "Mrs." is for an individual married woman, and "Mmes." is the plural of Mrs.

Sorry, I disagree that that's a common understanding or rule in English today, especially since the rules for addressing same-sex married couples haven't been clearly defined yet. There wouldn't be enough of a need for a commonly understood term for addressing multiple married women together but without their husbands in the past, so why would the majority of people think that's what that meant? 

To truly stick within English, there IS no plural for Mrs. because Miss, Ms and Mrs are all abbreviations of the word Mistress. The abbreviations mean different things now to distinguish between marital status (or not, in the case of Ms), but there is no plural form of the abbreviation itself. If you wish to resort to French to find a plural title you may, but it is not representative of marital status.

Jen4948

lolo883 said:

Jen4948 said:

lolo883 said:

Jen4948 said:

lilybet13 said:

lolo883 said:

I've read that Messrs. or Mmes. traditionally referred to grown, unmarried brothers or sisters. If I were married to another chick, I wouldn't really want to use the same title as was formerly bestowed upon "old maids." I'd go Mrs. Pink and Mrs. Yellow Ranger.

This is why I personally am not a fan of Messrs. or Mmes. Cool words that one doesn't see often, but it looks like you're addressing siblings.

Mmes. is the plural of Mrs., which is for married women.

No, it's not. It's the plural of "madame," which means "my lady." It can be used in reference to married women, but is really equivalent to "Ms." Per the definition, "Madame must also be used in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman is married or not and in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman considers the usage as discriminating or disrespectful." If you knew a woman was unmarried, she would be addressed as "mademoiselle." I don't know if that had/has the same age connotations as "Miss" does now. But Mmes was absolutely used to address unmarried sisters in the past.

Maybe in French, but not in English today.  "Mrs." is for an individual married woman, and "Mmes." is the plural of Mrs.

Sorry, I disagree that that's a common understanding or rule in English today, especially since the rules for addressing same-sex married couples haven't been clearly defined yet. There wouldn't be enough of a need for a commonly understood term for addressing multiple married women together but without their husbands in the past, so why would the majority of people think that's what that meant? 

To truly stick within English, there IS no plural for Mrs. because Miss, Ms and Mrs are all abbreviations of the word Mistress. The abbreviations mean different things now to distinguish between marital status (or not, in the case of Ms), but there is no plural form of the abbreviation itself. If you wish to resort to French to find a plural title you may, but it is not representative of marital status.

Let's agree to disagree, why don't we?

theartistformerlyknownas

Jen4948 said:

lolo883 said:

Jen4948 said:

lolo883 said:

Jen4948 said:

lilybet13 said:

lolo883 said:

I've read that Messrs. or Mmes. traditionally referred to grown, unmarried brothers or sisters. If I were married to another chick, I wouldn't really want to use the same title as was formerly bestowed upon "old maids." I'd go Mrs. Pink and Mrs. Yellow Ranger.

This is why I personally am not a fan of Messrs. or Mmes. Cool words that one doesn't see often, but it looks like you're addressing siblings.

Mmes. is the plural of Mrs., which is for married women.

No, it's not. It's the plural of "madame," which means "my lady." It can be used in reference to married women, but is really equivalent to "Ms." Per the definition, "Madame must also be used in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman is married or not and in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman considers the usage as discriminating or disrespectful." If you knew a woman was unmarried, she would be addressed as "mademoiselle." I don't know if that had/has the same age connotations as "Miss" does now. But Mmes was absolutely used to address unmarried sisters in the past.

Maybe in French, but not in English today.  "Mrs." is for an individual married woman, and "Mmes." is the plural of Mrs.

Sorry, I disagree that that's a common understanding or rule in English today, especially since the rules for addressing same-sex married couples haven't been clearly defined yet. There wouldn't be enough of a need for a commonly understood term for addressing multiple married women together but without their husbands in the past, so why would the majority of people think that's what that meant? 

To truly stick within English, there IS no plural for Mrs. because Miss, Ms and Mrs are all abbreviations of the word Mistress. The abbreviations mean different things now to distinguish between marital status (or not, in the case of Ms), but there is no plural form of the abbreviation itself. If you wish to resort to French to find a plural title you may, but it is not representative of marital status.

Let's agree to disagree, why don't we?

Of course. Not trying to make you agree with me, just stating the facts so everyone can draw their own conclusions.

Gizmo813

Thanks everybody for your advice. I think I'm going to go with: 

Mr. John and Mr. James Smith ... because that's what I'm most comfortable with, and it seems like you can't go wrong with that.

For the Drs.  I will see if they fit on one line. I suck at spacial stuff, so I will probably waste several envelopes in the process. But, that seems to be the trend with this project. (My FI is 1/2 Polish, so 1/2 of our guests have A LOT of C's, Z's and Y's in their names. I can't seem to spell them right on the first try ... ever.) So glad I ordered more envelopes than I ever could possibly need. 

Jen4948

lolo883 said:

Jen4948 said:

lolo883 said:

Jen4948 said:

lolo883 said:

Jen4948 said:

lilybet13 said:

lolo883 said:

I've read that Messrs. or Mmes. traditionally referred to grown, unmarried brothers or sisters. If I were married to another chick, I wouldn't really want to use the same title as was formerly bestowed upon "old maids." I'd go Mrs. Pink and Mrs. Yellow Ranger.

This is why I personally am not a fan of Messrs. or Mmes. Cool words that one doesn't see often, but it looks like you're addressing siblings.

Mmes. is the plural of Mrs., which is for married women.

No, it's not. It's the plural of "madame," which means "my lady." It can be used in reference to married women, but is really equivalent to "Ms." Per the definition, "Madame must also be used in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman is married or not and in the case where one does not know whether the addressed woman considers the usage as discriminating or disrespectful." If you knew a woman was unmarried, she would be addressed as "mademoiselle." I don't know if that had/has the same age connotations as "Miss" does now. But Mmes was absolutely used to address unmarried sisters in the past.

Maybe in French, but not in English today.  "Mrs." is for an individual married woman, and "Mmes." is the plural of Mrs.

Sorry, I disagree that that's a common understanding or rule in English today, especially since the rules for addressing same-sex married couples haven't been clearly defined yet. There wouldn't be enough of a need for a commonly understood term for addressing multiple married women together but without their husbands in the past, so why would the majority of people think that's what that meant? 

To truly stick within English, there IS no plural for Mrs. because Miss, Ms and Mrs are all abbreviations of the word Mistress. The abbreviations mean different things now to distinguish between marital status (or not, in the case of Ms), but there is no plural form of the abbreviation itself. If you wish to resort to French to find a plural title you may, but it is not representative of marital status.

Let's agree to disagree, why don't we?

Of course. Not trying to make you agree with me, just stating the facts so everyone can draw their own conclusions.

I asked if we can agree to disagree because we don't even agree on whether or not these are "facts," and I think nobody needs a lecture on the subject.