Homophobia and kids (long)

wandajune6

I'm not sure why I didn't think to post my question to this group before but, given the recent posts, I thought this would be the perfect forum. I'm trying very hard not to be offensive so I apologize if I make any flubs. I also apologize for the length!

I FI's 15 year old son is a very sweet kid with a lot of issues (mainly related to a very low IQ and lack of personal discipline- and all are currently being addressed). I caught him derogatory, homophobic language around a group of other kids over the weekend. The first time I heard him do this a couple of weeks ago, I sat him down and had a long conversation about why this is unacceptable. This time, I lost my temper and he got sent to his room instead of going out with some friends. FI thought I overreacted (though he will always back me up on discipline issues) but I'm not sure.

FI left his ex when FSS was 2. She's a mess. His ex had several men live with her over the next 3 years. She's since been in a long-term with another woman for 10 years. FI hates this woman and she hates FI (her treatment of FSS was how FI got full custody). FSS's mom also recently had a baby (lots of questions there...). I've heard both women use homophobic terms towards each other in front of both FSS and me.

I've tried to have a decent relationship with this couple because it makes things better for FSS. They told me that they weren't planning to marry because they are Catholic and don't believe in same-sex marriage. The partner also explained that the ex is living off of government assistance and that would be lost if they married. On top of that, they told FI that they didn't want the son to go to my uncles' wedding because they thought a gay wedding would be a bad influence. WTF?!

So my question is this: how do you address homophobia and hate language with a kid who's learning that language from a gay parent? She only has him a few weekends a month (and cancels a lot) but she has an impact. FSS loves my uncles and has been a fan of the gay friends of mine that he's met. FI and I are trying to raise him to be an open-minded, thoughtful person and we're struggling.

Any advice?

phira

I think I might just stick with, "Hey, that kind of language isn't okay in our house." It's impossible to control his thoughts or feelings, and obviously, if his mother is in a same-sex relationship and says things that are homophobic or otherwise inappropriate, there's nothing you can do about that. But if you make it about what's okay to say around you and in your house, he will think twice about saying those things. And hopefully, he will rethink those things.

I'd just make sure that your fiance is with you on this. It shouldn't be, "My future step-mom doesn't like me saying these things even though Mom is fine with it and Dad doesn't care and just does what future step-mom says." It should be, "Dad and future step-mom aren't okay with me saying these things around them." So I'd talk with your fiance and have your fiance talk to his son.

HisGirlFriday13

As usual, I agree with @phira. You need to have your FI sit his son down, with you there, and say to him, 'Son, we've been hearing you use racist, hateful, homophobic language, and that's not OK. Not OK at all. You are not allowed to use those words in our house, or in our hearing again, ever, do you understand? Going forward, any use of this language will be punished severely. Are we clear?'

This message has to, has to, HAS TO come from your FI. It is CRUCIAL that your FSS sees you and his father as a single unit, united in discipline and rules. He can't be allowed to think that his dad is only going along with what you want.

If he has the mental capacity (and I don't know; you say 'low IQ,' but I don't know how low) to ask 'why don't we say [bad word],' then I would say to him, 'We don't use things people can't control -- such as their race, gender identity, or sexual orientation -- as a slur or a pejorative. You wouldn't like it if someone said something like that about you, would you?'

Inkdancer

Phira and HisGirl nailing it once again! I can't say anything better.

VulgarGirl

Wait, they're in a same sex relationship and have a problem with people in same sex relationships getting married? I read that right, right? WTF? Talk about self-loathing homophobic bullshit.

VulgarGirl

shrekspeare said:

MagicInk said:

Wait, they're in a same sex relationship and have a problem with people in same sex relationships getting married? I read that right, right? WTF? Talk about self-loathing homophobic bullshit.

I know a few couples in same sex relationships who use this type of language. It definitely makes me wonder about their relationship, but I consider it much like the N word; they can use it but It will never come out of my mouth.

Oh there's some language I use similar to the N word. Like...I call myself a dyke all the time. I am a dyke. I feel it fits me. Hell a lot of my friends call me dyke too and it doesn't bug me one bit. But when I'm walking down the street holding hands with FI and someone screams "Fucking dykes!", yeah, they don't get to use the word.

 But OP said the women in question were against same sex marriage itself...despite being in a same sex relationship. Now that does not compute in my brain space.

phira

MagicInk said:

shrekspeare said:

MagicInk said:

Wait, they're in a same sex relationship and have a problem with people in same sex relationships getting married? I read that right, right? WTF? Talk about self-loathing homophobic bullshit.

I know a few couples in same sex relationships who use this type of language. It definitely makes me wonder about their relationship, but I consider it much like the N word; they can use it but It will never come out of my mouth.

Oh there's some language I use similar to the N word. Like...I call myself a dyke all the time. I am a dyke. I feel it fits me. Hell a lot of my friends call me dyke too and it doesn't bug me one bit. But when I'm walking down the street holding hands with FI and someone screams "Fucking dykes!", yeah, they don't get to use the word.

 But OP said the women in question were against same sex marriage itself...despite being in a same sex relationship. Now that does not compute in my brain space.

I don't think I'll ever understand the cognitive dissonance that some people manage to maintain.

CMGragain

This is common in schools.  When I worked in a school with 99.9% African American elementary school kids, the two worst insults they shouted on the playground were "Your Momma's white!" and "You so gay!"  Heaven help them if they used that in my classroom.  I would embarrass them in front of the whole class, and then call the parent.  Still, I know this language persisted outside my hearing. 
I would stand the kid up and ask the class "What if I used the "n" word to talk about Damien, here?"  Everybody agreed that was terrible and racist.  "Then why did Damien think is it OK to call somebody white when you are trying to disrespect them?"  Crickets chirped.  They often forgot I was white.

The "gay" putdown was harder, since I sometimes didn't have parental support on that one. 
"Retard" was also a common insult that is unacceptable, but I always said something to the kids if somebody let something unacceptable slip.

Kids do need negative words they can use when they are upset or angry.  Find some non-racist, non gender words they can use.  I've seen some great ones on this board.  @HisGirlFriday13

FiancB

I'm so confused. She sounds like Uncle Ruckus, but the lesbian version. 

wandajune6

You're all spot-on!

I need to be better about pushing FI on this. He's been great about correcting FSS on other language but for this, he hasn't been as forceful. When asked, I was told this is one that he's been leaving to the ex. Clearly the wrong approach.

I understand the use of derogatory terms by "insiders" and that makes sense. However, I have (clearly mistakenly) assumed that parents understand that they have more responsibility for these things in front of their children. I can bear witness to the countless ways that both are awful parents so should know better than to think this topic is an exception.

@CMGragain‌ - your approach reminds me of how I approached the term "retard" with FSS. He's in all special ed classes and reading at an elementary school level. I asked him to define the word for me. When he couldn't, we looked up a few definitions together (thank you Urban Dictionary!). That out a stop to things!

wandajune6

I should also note that we're trying very hard to not bash FSS's mom and partner. They don't care about homework, healthy eating, chores or any of the things that you need to be responsible for as a parent. After a huge fight with FSS while FI was out I had to explain that we make him do things he doesn't want to do because we love him and know how important they are. Every time he starts crying that no one cares about him because we force him to do things he doesn't want to do, I tell him that the day we stop pushing is the day we stop caring. I believe that but I think it was the wrong approach with this kid. He adores me but I confuse him.

FI also reminded me that his ex has repeatedly told FSS that FI hates her because FI "knows he's not a man because she left for a woman." He left for other reasons and doesn't care. However I think this is another reason he treads lightly on the topic.

I believe that kids need as many loving parents as possible but I seriously miss the days when FSS's mom disappeared for months on end. FSS might have felt abandoned but he did better and school and was much easier to live with!

You are all very wise people! Thank you!