Friends Fiancé Isn't Divorced Yet

HisGirlFriday13

loveislouder said:

She has zero idea of anything etiquette and it's honestly driving me crazy.  If I told you all the things this woman is doing wrong, you'd probably disown me for still going lol.

Oh no. We would never disown you.

We would demand that you go and report back with all the holy.effing.shitballs etiquette details.

Because we love a good shitstorm.

loveislouder

I have an incredible amount of patience.  Here's a small sampling of things she's doing (or not doing):

1) No thank you cards - she thinks the favour is enough.

2) She's holding it in a funeral chapel.. not exactly an etiquette thing, but still odd.

3) She has only a MOH. She's mad because the MOH doesn't drop everything immediately and come to her aid when she needs her.  She's also pissed because the MOH hasn't planned a bridal shower, nor a bachelorette party (which the bride told all of us not to even think about starting to plan until we got word from her about her schedule).

4) She isn't inviting FI's kids to the wedding because FI and the kids have a "strained" relationship.   I tried explaining to her why this was a TERRIBLE idea, but she didn't care.

And that's just some of them. Discuss lol

sophhabobopha

loveislouder said:

I have an incredible amount of patience.  Here's a small sampling of things she's doing (or not doing):

1) No thank you cards - she thinks the favour is enough.

2) She's holding it in a funeral chapel.. not exactly an etiquette thing, but still odd.

3) She has only a MOH. She's mad because the MOH doesn't drop everything immediately and come to her aid when she needs her.  She's also pissed because the MOH hasn't planned a bridal shower, nor a bachelorette party (which the bride told all of us not to even think about starting to plan until we got word from her about her schedule).

4) She isn't inviting FI's kids to the wedding because FI and the kids have a "strained" relationship.   I tried explaining to her why this was a TERRIBLE idea, but she didn't care.

And that's just some of them. Discuss lol

SapphireCounselor

Ugh, what a headache! Yes, it is inappropriate.

short+sassy

Good general advice for the brides out there...don't start putting deposits down, making plans, and sending out the STDs , if either you or FI have not had the divorce finalized yet.

Did I really just have to type and advise that?  In light of the OPs friend, apparently so, lol.

Funny story, back in my single days, I was online dating and went on a lunch date with a guy who had contacted me.  He tells me over lunch that he is actually married but, its okay, because they have been separated for about a year.  Dealbreaker for me.  I won't even get romantically involved with someone still legally, much less engaged to someone else.  But to each their own.

Oddly enough, I ended up getting a job where he worked about a year later.  He was still married and living with his wife at that time.  Hmmmmmm.  

huskypuppy14

I agree with everyone else that it's inappropriate to be engaged (and obviously they have sent out invitations while the man is still married). That is just really stupid, for all the reasons stated above. 

However, I don't like how the woman always gets the blame. Most of the responsibility is on her FI who is really the one people should be disgusted with. 

Now, I am have no dog in this fight, I've never been divorced, my parent's and my FI parents are happily married, so I don't have any real life experience, but I believe that most of the time, the marriage is over way before it's legally over. I don't think it's wrong to have another relationship, especially if the ex isn't willing to sign the papers. Now to be engaged, is probably going to far.

ETA: paragraphs, stupid knot.

pinkshorts27

huskypuppy14 said:

I agree with everyone else that it's inappropriate to be engaged (and obviously they have sent out invitations while the man is still married). That is just really stupid, for all the reasons stated above. 

However, I don't like how the woman always gets the blame. Most of the responsibility is on her FI who is really the one people should be disgusted with. 

Now, I am have no dog in this fight, I've never been divorced, my parent's and my FI parents are happily married, so I don't have any real life experience, but I believe that most of the time, the marriage is over way before it's legally over. I don't think it's wrong to have another relationship, especially if the ex isn't willing to sign the papers. Now to be engaged, is probably going to far.

ETA: paragraphs, stupid knot.

I think it is equally to blame between parties. She obviously knew and so did he. 

huskypuppy14

pinkshorts27 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

I agree with everyone else that it's inappropriate to be engaged (and obviously they have sent out invitations while the man is still married). That is just really stupid, for all the reasons stated above. 

However, I don't like how the woman always gets the blame. Most of the responsibility is on her FI who is really the one people should be disgusted with. 

Now, I am have no dog in this fight, I've never been divorced, my parent's and my FI parents are happily married, so I don't have any real life experience, but I believe that most of the time, the marriage is over way before it's legally over. I don't think it's wrong to have another relationship, especially if the ex isn't willing to sign the papers. Now to be engaged, is probably going to far.

ETA: paragraphs, stupid knot.

I think it is equally to blame between parties. She obviously knew and so did he. 

Yes, but he is the one who is married. I'm not saying she isn't free from all blame, just that the guy is clearly the one who is more to blame. It's just like when a woman is dating a guy in a relationship, everyone gets mad at the other woman, why? It's not her- it's him, that shouldn't be trying to start new relationships while still with someone else.

hyechica81

so where is the reception going to be in the morgue? who has a wedding ceremony at a funeral home and what funeral home would allow that.?


he needs to do all he can to get divorced from this women and then start planing his own wedding to wife 2.

he and wife to be need to contact a lawyer to get things rolling to get her to sign the papers, current wife 1 could hold off for a long time and not sign at all...  a laywer would help get things rolling and work out some deal..


her wanting to take him to the cleaners is bad, he could though offer her a large valuble item like if they owned property together he could say ill sign the house over to you

banana468

Considering most states don't do quickie divorces I don't care if someone is separated and starts seeing someone. A friend of mine from his ex wife at the beginning of 2013 and started seeing his current GF in late May but the divorce wasn't final until February 2014. The marriage was over and they'd filed by the time he started seeing someone.

However I totally agree that it makes no sense to make plans until you know the divorce is final.

crackktheskyy

loveislouder said:

I have an incredible amount of patience.  Here's a small sampling of things she's doing (or not doing):

1) No thank you cards - she thinks the favour is enough.

2) She's holding it in a funeral chapel.. not exactly an etiquette thing, but still odd.

3) She has only a MOH. She's mad because the MOH doesn't drop everything immediately and come to her aid when she needs her.  She's also pissed because the MOH hasn't planned a bridal shower, nor a bachelorette party (which the bride told all of us not to even think about starting to plan until we got word from her about her schedule).

4) She isn't inviting FI's kids to the wedding because FI and the kids have a "strained" relationship.   I tried explaining to her why this was a TERRIBLE idea, but she didn't care.

And that's just some of them. Discuss lol

Wait, so your friend is marrying someone who is still technically married and she also not inviting his children from said first marriage? YIKES!

And no thank you cards?

MairePoppy

loveislouder said:

I have an incredible amount of patience.  Here's a small sampling of things she's doing (or not doing):

1) No thank you cards - she thinks the favour is enough. Knowing this, I'd skip the gift and consider my presence to be their present. Done and done.

2) She's holding it in a funeral chapel.. not exactly an etiquette thing, but still odd. Eh? Kind of creepy. I'd like to see how they word the location on the invitations. 

3) She has only a MOH. She's mad because the MOH doesn't drop everything immediately and come to her aid when she needs her.  She's also pissed because the MOH hasn't planned a bridal shower, nor a bachelorette party (which the bride told all of us not to even think about starting to plan until we got word from her about her schedule). She's an impatient creature, isn't she? Lacks the maturity to wait until the divorce is final before 'marrying' the man and she expects her family and friends to humor her with a shower and bp, too. Obviously, none of this is appropriate and even if the marriage was going to be legit, it's not appropriate to demand that parties be thrown in your honor.

4) She isn't inviting FI's kids to the wedding because FI and the kids have a "strained" relationship.   I tried explaining to her why this was a TERRIBLE idea, but she didn't care. That's good because I don't see how the children could be expected to attend their father's wedding, when he's still married to their mother. Knowing there are kids involved, here, makes the father/husband/fi a bigger jerk than I thought he was to begin with.

And that's just some of them. Discuss lol

CMGragain

I had a friend who happily announced her engagement to everyone.  She had a HUGE diamond ring.  We are talking 5 carats.  Two weeks later she found out that the SOB was married.  He never got divorced.  She went through a lot of pain over this relationship.  She kept the ring.

HisGirlFriday13

CMGragain said:

I had a friend who happily announced her engagement to everyone.  She had a HUGE diamond ring.  We are talking 5 carats.  Two weeks later she found out that the SOB was married.  He never got divorced.  She went through a lot of pain over this relationship.  She kept the ring.

If she didn't know he was married, and it was a surprise to her, I would have kept the ring, too.

loveislouder

The kids are 20 an 23, so not exactly kids. But yeah...

MairePoppy

I don't think being older and understanding what's going on makes it easier. 

HisGirlFriday13

There are only three scenarios in which it is acceptable for children to be excluded from their parents' weddings:

1. They choose to be.

2. The parent and the new spouse are eloping with NO ONE other than the officiant and legal witnesses present.

3. The parent getting married is non-custodial and there is a legitimate reason for the custodial parent to not want the child in the presence of the non-custodial parent.

The marrying parent's new spouse-to-be not wanting the kids there isn't a good reason.

loveislouder

My mom's dad re-married less than 6 months after my grandma died.  He didn't invite my mom or us kids because new wife hated us, and we never forgave him for it. So that one really touches a nerve with me.

MollyandD

The no "thank you" cards may not be that big of a deal. I mean, if I knew that there was a fake wedding in which one person was legally married to someone else, there's no chance in hell I'd be giving a gift anyway.

To me, it's like he's a cheater. I don't care so much that people begin relationships before divorces are final, though I'd never do it. I do care about engagements before divorces are final. 

I guess if this guy wants to take the polygamy route though... Cool?

mysticl

banana468 said:

Considering most states don't do quickie divorces I don't care if someone is separated and starts seeing someone. A friend of mine from his ex wife at the beginning of 2013 and started seeing his current GF in late May but the divorce wasn't final until February 2014. The marriage was over and they'd filed by the time he started seeing someone. However I totally agree that it makes no sense to make plans until you know the divorce is final.

This.  Way back when my parents split up our state had a 3 year waiting period for a no fault divorce.  That's right, my parents had to live apart for 3 years before they could file for divorce.  It was another 5 months for the divorce to be finalized.  That didn't include the property settlement, it was just the piece of paper saying they weren't married anymore.  My mom did start dating someone during that time.  He is now my step-father however they did not even get engaged let alone married until I left for college which was a few years after the fact.  

About a year into the waiting period the state changed it to 2 years for new separations.  There were couples who had only been apart a few months (or less) that got back together just so they could separate again and file under the 2 year rule instead of the 3 year rule.

kitty8403

pinkshorts27 said:

huskypuppy14 said:

I agree with everyone else that it's inappropriate to be engaged (and obviously they have sent out invitations while the man is still married). That is just really stupid, for all the reasons stated above. 

However, I don't like how the woman always gets the blame. Most of the responsibility is on her FI who is really the one people should be disgusted with. 

Now, I am have no dog in this fight, I've never been divorced, my parent's and my FI parents are happily married, so I don't have any real life experience, but I believe that most of the time, the marriage is over way before it's legally over. I don't think it's wrong to have another relationship, especially if the ex isn't willing to sign the papers. Now to be engaged, is probably going to far.

ETA: paragraphs, stupid knot.

I think it is equally to blame between parties. She obviously knew and so did he. 


---SIB!---

I agree that the man is perhaps "worse," in the sense that he is the one dishonoring his vows--he is morally and legally bound in a way that the woman is not. However, she is also at fault, both for getting involved with him in the first place, and for accepting a proposal from a married man.

I genuinely do not understand that disconnect. All those vows she's hoping he'll say to her, and soon (so soon she is unwilling to wait for the divorce??!)? He's already made those promises to somebody else. He's already exchanged that ring, signed that license, built that family--with somebody else. He belongs with his wife and kids, not with her. She should be encouraging him to reconcile, or, if that is not possible, giving him space to do what he needs to do to end it and get his own affairs in order before pursuing a new relationship.

ETA: yes, we're all human and divorces take a long time, and sometimes you meet someone at a bad time in your life. But separated does not equal divorced, or "free." That person is still married. There is still the possibility of reconciliation. Why would anyone want to get in the way of that? Your marriage vows don't stop applying to you just because you're frustrated or struggling. They end when one of you dies, or when you truly divorce.

kitty8403

hyechica81 said:

so where is the reception going to be in the morgue? who has a wedding ceremony at a funeral home and what funeral home would allow that.?


he needs to do all he can to get divorced from this women and then start planing his own wedding to wife 2.

he and wife to be need to contact a lawyer to get things rolling to get her to sign the papers, current wife 1 could hold off for a long time and not sign at all...  a laywer would help get things rolling and work out some deal..


her wanting to take him to the cleaners is bad, he could though offer her a large valuble item like if they owned property together he could say ill sign the house over to you

About the morgue--I read somewhere awhile ago that this was becoming a thing. People figured out that funeral homes had seats and private rooms and a churchlike atmosphere, and they didn't cost all that much to rent. I've seen some budget articles recommending people try to book them!

Maggie0829

CMGragain said:

I am old fashioned enough to believe that one cannot be engaged to a person who is not free to marry.

Wait, so this way of thinking isn't just common sense?

HisGirlFriday13

Maggie0829 said:

CMGragain said:

I am old fashioned enough to believe that one cannot be engaged to a person who is not free to marry.

Wait, so this way of thinking isn't just common sense?

Sadly, I think we can no longer assume ANYTHING is 'common sense.'

a13049

Maggie0829 said:

CMGragain said:

I am old fashioned enough to believe that one cannot be engaged to a person who is not free to marry.

Wait, so this way of thinking isn't just common sense?

YES!  I think what you friend is doing is pretty tasteless.  Wedding redos (PPDs) don't bother me.  I'm not a fan of lieing, but if you are recreating you wedding, whatever.  Feeding me, water me and give me a seat, I will have a great time.  This engaged before you divorced is stupid, and if they go on with the wedding before his previous marriage is final, there is no way in hell I would attend!  

Jells2dot0

banana468 said:

Considering most states don't do quickie divorces I don't care if someone is separated and starts seeing someone. A friend of mine from his ex wife at the beginning of 2013 and started seeing his current GF in late May but the divorce wasn't final until February 2014. The marriage was over and they'd filed by the time he started seeing someone.

However I totally agree that it makes no sense to make plans until you know the divorce is final.

This.

My biggest issue is not the moving on and dating, but it's the rush to move on to something so serious. My divorce was a piece of cake in terms of divorces, but I was still a total hot mess after it. I had a lot of learning and self-fixing to do. If I had married again right away, especially with children involved, the marriage would have been DOA. Even if you are lucky enough to meet your "soul mate" so soon after a divorce, do your relationship and new SO a favor and wait. If it's meant to be, it will survive and it will be that much stronger.