Not Engaged Yet

Need advice

I'm going to try to keep this as short as possible, but buckle up.

J has moderate OCD and he's very, very close to this family. VERY close. We've had multiple fights over the years because he prioritizes spending time with his family over my needs. I'm talking like ... he once wasn't sure if he was going to come to the hospital with me because his family was having a fun movie night and he didn't want them to be upset that they cooked too much food and then we didn't show up.

He has video game nights semi-regularly with his brothers, and he sees one of them almost every week to play games (the other brother is always invited but never comes to weekly hang outs). His youngest brother is very flaky and hard to make plans with, so when J manages to get a date set for their video game night, it's really important that he doesn't have to change it. It's always a weeknight because weekends are too busy.

When J goes, he's usually not home until 12:30 or 1am, which is usually fine, and I usually have no idea where he is or when he'll be home, which is irritating but I can deal with it normally.

My work schedule now involves a lot of 13 hour days, and I don't always know which days are going to be 13 hour days until 1-2 days before. This week, I found out on Monday that I needed to do a 13 hour day on Tuesday (yesterday), and technically today as well. However, today I also had a medical treatment scheduled, and we were scheduled to meet with our venue coordinator at 7pm. I figured out that to get my experiment done on Wednesday, I had to come in no later than 6:30, rush a lot in the morning, and then hope my undergrad could come in later in the evening (since we'd be at the venue). So I knew I'd be waking up around or before 6am Tuesday and Wednesday, working very late Tuesday, and I knew I'd be tired from Tuesday and from my medical treatment (which leaves me extremely fatigued for about a week afterwards).

Monday night, J reminded me about game night, and I asked if he could be home earlier than usually, and/or update me so I'd know when he'd be home. I've only just gotten used to falling asleep with him in the living room, but I still can't sleep if I don't know when he'll be home. I can't help it. He got angry and refused to give me an estimate of when he could be home, and did not commit to updates.

Yesterday, we talked a little during the day at work, and apologized for fighting. I ended up working from 7am until shortly after 9pm and was absolutely exhausted; I hadn't heard from him at all at that point, but I really knew that the only way I'd be able to get everything done on Wednesday would be to go to bed as soon as I could. I called and asked if J could stay at his brother's place (if I know he's not coming home, I can sleep). He said no. I then begged him to come home now because of how tired I was. He angrily replied that it was impossible, and that he couldn't have this conversation with me on the phone while he was with his brothers.

He texted me shortly after I got home, saying, "I managed to get a ride," which made me feel a little better, but he never came home. After the point at which he would have been home if he'd walked or taken public transit, I texted him again, and he replied saying he hadn't left--he was waiting for his sisters-in-law to return and drive him home. I was so angry I was gasping because of how much I was crying and I could barely type because I was shaking so much. I didn't hear from him until he walked in the door shortly before 1am.

He was absolutely enraged at me for ruining his evening and trying to force him to cancel on his brothers. It turns out (and how could I have known?) that the youngest brother had been over 3 hours late to game night, and when I had called, they had just ordered dinner. The sisters-in-law then went to a concert together and weren't clear about when they'd be back. He told me that he was NOT going to reschedule plans he'd made months in advance (he HADN'T made those plans months in advance, though), and that he could NOT leave after his brother paid all that money for food. He said the T would have been unusable because of the concert, and laughed like I was crazy when I said he could have walked or gotten a cab.

Basically, he was angry that I'd made his night not fun because he spent it mad at me for trying to ruin his plans with his brothers.

I was so angry. I could barely talk from being so tired and so angry. After fighting for a short while (might have been 10 minutes? I don't remember), I told him to find somewhere else to stay. He got really nasty after that ("Oh, okay so I guess I'll just sleep on the streets!"), so I got dressed and told him I'd just sleep at the lab. I walked to work, and my best friend texted me to find out if I was okay (I'd been updating her throughout the night). She's on a night schedule right now and so she picked me up from work and let me vent and sleep at her place before driving me back to work at 6 this morning.

I've had about three hours of sleep (one at her house, two during my medical treatment--you can nap during the infusions), and I canceled our venue meeting because I cannot drive in this condition. But right now, I'm just so done. It's been 2 years of him insisting I'm making him pick between me and his family, and I'm tired of that bullshit claim. I'm at the end of my patience. I cannot believe that he would care so little about me being able to SLEEP during a hellish week because it interfered with his gaming night and inconvenienced him. I cannot believe how resistant he is to letting me know when he'll be home, or agreeing on a time I can expect him home if I need to get up early the next day. I cannot believe that he cared more about not disappointing his brothers than he did about not leaving me sleep deprived and distraught.

I've been working on finding counseling, and I should be starting by the middle or end of the month (there was a waiting list). Our couple's therapist, whom we only saw a few times last summer (when we were fighting over his family--shocking), might not have a time that works for us, which is why we stopped seeing her before. And he's so resistant to finding his own counselor, I'm not sure he would do it. He refuses to see anyone who's not a psychiatrist (especially refuses to see a LICSW) even though he doesn't want medication.

The big question is: if this is how he always is about his immediate family, how much longer can I deal with it? And really, the answer is, "Not forever." I'm not sure how long we can realistically put the wedding on hold privately before having to formally and more publicly postpone it. And I don't want that to be seen as an ultimatum or threat. I just can't keep having this fight, and I'm still in shock that he was so angry with me and so unconcerned about why I needed him to come home.

Sorry for the novel. I'm still really sleep deprived. I'm just dreading going home.
Anniversary
now with ~* INCREASED SASSINESS *~
image
«1

Re: Need advice

  • Engagement can be such a tough time, because at least for me, every little thing made me think "... but forever????"

    My ex-fiance wouldn't go to counseling though. 

    From the outside it seems like putting limitations on who he will see is part of putting off seeing anyone.

    I don't have much advice, except good for you for not pushing on with the wedding!  It's a tough thing, I know.

    image

    Daisypath - Personal pictureDaisypath Anniversary tickers

  • Oh sweetheart. I'm so sorry he's treating you like this.

    Frankly, I wouldn't use / let him use his OCD as an excuse here. He's just being a jackass.

    Gaming (tabletop in my case) has come between FI and me before. We eventually did have to have the "it's gaming or me" ultimatum fight. I hated doing it. I felt terrible - how could I put restrictions on his hobby? But when he wasn't telling time and was making my world more difficult, something had to give. We came to the arrangement that he has to have some sort of an end time for his part, at least - like he can't be out past midnight or so (they're all on weekends) or he has to at least check in by then so I can sleep. Also, he agreed that he'll only go to two of his three gaming groups any given weekend so that we have one whole day together every week, and usually this isn't a problem, but last week he did have to move one gaming session (the smallest group) so that we could do housework. Housework/home obligations also come first. Is any of this something J would be willing to consider?
  • I agree with what @cu97tiger said. I think it's very important for him to put your desires first before his family's. I come from a very close family and now that H and I are married, it's our family first and then each other's families. Even before we were married, we tried to make that a priority as well.

    Sending lots of hugs your way. 
  • @phira all the hugs!  I want you to know that through all of this that it's really important to make sure you and your body are doing okay.  If that means sleeping at a friend's house or ordering out some food (to make sure you're eating) or taking a day off work (your PI won't REALLY kill you, despite his or her claims) that's OKAY.  That's ALLOWED.  Grad school sucks.  It sucks even more when you have a SO that isn't willing to compromise.

    So that being said, I'm going to try to address a few things I got from your novel :)

    1) Counseling is an awesome idea.  Can you get counseling (for free, most likely?) through your school?  Sometimes (especially in the summer) they can get you in more quickly.  I had an actual real life psychologist at my undergrad because I had a panic attack during CPR training for my job and my supervisor recommended it.  He really allowed me to understand where I was coming from with my anxiety and gave me some ways to combat it.  Then I went again to a psychologist during my illness last year because my anxiety was off the charts with so many doctors/hospital visits.  It's okay to do individual counseling even if couples counseling doesn't happen

    2) It's likely easier (and less money will likely be lost) if you postpone your wedding sooner rather than later.  I know before every "deadline" at our venue, I asked myself "are you sure about this?" and each time I was.  But if I wasn't, I'd rather lose 50% or 80% of our downpayment than enter into a marriage I wasn't fully ready for.  There are a lot of "I"s in this explanation - seriously, part of the marriage process is an "I" decision - am I ready? am I looking forward to this? do I see this working? "We" can come after that, because when I'm still single, "I" is allowed to come first sometimes.

    3) I'm not sure that your FI's issues with not telling you where he is or when he's coming home are due to OCD or family dynamics or what - I can't read his mind.  However, it is imperative you have a discussion about this when you're both in a good spot - so perhaps when you're done being exhausted from this treatment and caught up on work (does that ever happen?) and when he's not preoccupied with a prior engagement.  He needs to understand that not communicating with you is causing you the SAME KIND OF ANXIETY that he gets if things aren't put away in the right spots, etc (whatever his OCD triggers are.)  You need to understand that it appears there are some possible underlying issues with him and not wanting food/money to go to waste.  He needs to understand that part of a marriage is bringing two families together and creating a new family.  The family of @phira & (future H) should come first.  Then the families of @phira and (future H)'s should come next.  Or maybe friends come before them, depending how close you are to your side of the family.

    4) I'll be here regardless of what you and your FI decide about the wedding.  That's not the big deal right now.  Your relationship is the big deal.  And if that's not working, you might have to take a break.  That's okay.  Plenty of us have taken a break, even close to the wedding.  it's allowed.  And I'm ALWAYS here to lament about school/labwork.  That just makes all of this so much harder because you're very rarely allowed to have a personal life, and problems in your personal life are just swept under the rug so quickly in that setting (with a bad PI, at least.  I wouldn't know what it's like with a good PI)

    Again, lots of hugs your way.  You are free to PM me or find me on facebook or whatever.  I'm around.

    Sorry for the novel - I hope that was somewhat understandable.
    I guess, to tell you the truth, I've never had much of a desire to grow facial hair. I think I've managed to play quarterback just fine without a mustache. - Peyton
  • edited June 2014
    @Phira I'm sorry you have to deal with this. I can relate in some ways to the sleeping thing. I hate whn I'm ready to go to bed and FI wants to stay up later than me in the living room. I usually cannot fall to sleep unless he's in bed and the lights and TV are off. He gets annoyed that I nag him to come to bed when it isn't even too late (we're talking 10:30-12 o'clock). I own that it's something I need to work on.- he shouldn't have to come to bed just because I'm tired, though it's a nice gesture some of the time.

    As several ladies on here know - I've argued with my FI about him letting me know when he's going to be home and if he's doing something after work instead of coming straight home. Like you, it REALLY REALLY REALLY upsets me if he cannot tell me when he's going to be home, and commit to it. I know I have trust issues, and need to work on relaxing with this a little bit, but I believe it is perfectly reasonable expect your significant other to let you know where they are and when they'll be home if anything is out of the ordinary.

    He should NOT be prioritizing his family time over you - especially to the extent you describe. The fact that he almost didn't go to the HOSPITAL with you is a serious red flag. You know he has some issues, and you both need to be working towards resolving them. OF course you know he isn't treating you that way because he's a jerk, it's because his priorities/sense of normal behavior is skewed - but the reason doesn't really matter so much when you're sobbing uncontrollably, does it? I hope you two are working with a counselor on these issues. If not - you should definitely get started on that.

    Now - here is where I side with him: In this particular case, you knew were he was, and that he would be coming home that night. Yes, you had an early morning ahead of you, but that shouldn't have to impact his plans with his brothers. This is something that YOU need to work on. 

    ETA: I see that you're on the waitlist for a counselor!
    Wedding Countdown Ticker
    Daisypath Anniversary tickers
  • The one thing that I think of is does his family get upset if he ever did end up cancelling? Or would they be like "it's okay, we'll do it next week." Or are they the type that are like "WAHHHHH, NOOOO, we made all this food!" Because if they're the latter, I can see how it would trigger his OCD which sucks, because it takes a toll on you, If it's the former, then maybe they can explain to him "hey, shit happens, people cancel, we get it, no worries".

    I'm and only child and very close with my parents. The one thing my parents drilled in my head is that marriage is a teamwork. They won't allow me to do anything that involves them unless I ask him about it, and if he says "nah, I don't feel like doing it" we stay home. Case in point, in two weeks, I have to drive to my parents to help my mom shop for her MOB dress. I asked FI "do you want to go?" his response "no thanks, by the time I get up there it'll be midnight, but you just go since it's a mom/daughter thing". Teamwork, talking it out and making decisions is what works.

    In regards to counseling I think you should both go individually and together. Therefore he can work on his own issues (OCD triggers, etc) and you can work on yours and basically vent, and then take the skills you learned with your own therapist individually and apply it to couples therapy.

     

     Wedding Countdown Ticker




    image 59 Invited
    image 36 Yes
    image 2 No
    image 21 Unknown
  • I am so sorry that you are going through this. Honestly, I don't think that your FI is ready for marriage. There is nothing wrong with being close to his family, but putting a weekly (or even more frequent) game night on hold every once in a while to help you with medical issues/other needs should be a non-issue. He is being selfish to treat you that way, and it isn't like you are asking him to never see them again (even though he seems to see it that way).

    I don't know if everyone feels this way, but I personally consider marriage as starting a new family. And to me, that means putting your wants on hold sometimes for your immediate family. He doesn't seem willing to do this, and that is a huge red flag to me. This is coming from someone who also has her fair share of medical issues, and I would be livid if my BF ever treated me this way. My father is also an infusion specialist (RN), so I understand better then most as to the severity of issues that require infusions, and how long they can take.

    I also think you need to consider how this will affect your future together. If you want kids, would he leave you to take care of them all the time so that he can go play games? What about if your medical condition worsens, and you end up in the hospital for an extended period of time? Will he be angry at you for "preventing" him from having his game night because he has to take care of the kids while you are sick?

    I really think counseling and at least postponing the wedding are both really good ideas, and to really consider whether or not he would be willing to change his behaivor. I personally would not marry him unless he agrees to consider your needs as well.


  • I'm so sorry @Phira :( You should be a top priority to him, especially when it involves you having to go to the hospital or WR meetings.

    You should never have to dread going home.

     FI and I are both very close to our families, but we are definitely a top priority to each other. I really hope you both can get into counseling and I hope that it's effective.
    Anniversary
    image
     
  • @phira I'm so sorry you are going through this all.  I agree with a lot of what @cutiger97 said. Your marriage is the start of a new family, he should be putting you first.  I would agree therapy would really help to work on some of these issues for you guys.

    Anniversary

  • @cu97tiger hit the nail on the head. I'm so sorry you're going through this! I understand family being important to him, but does he not consider you family? Marriage means becoming a family, a single unit, and personal priorities have to change as a result. Also, I'm sure his family would understand if he had to cancel or reschedule a few times. Life happens! 

    And I'm sorry, but I don't see how he can honestly blame you for ruining his game night. He should have just communicated with you from the start that his younger was coming much later than expected, food was being ordered, SILs were out, etc. How can you possibly know what's going on over there if he won't tell you? If you had known, you could have at least made other sleeping arrangements for yourself at an earlier time.

    My takeaway from everything you said is that you have his needs as a priority but he doesn't necessarily seem to have your needs as a priority. Unfortunately, I don't think you should proceed with a marriage if that is an accurate statement. I applaud your decision to seek counseling, and I really hope everything works out for you and your FI. Please keep us updated!


    Daisypath Anniversary tickers
  • phiraphira member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    Thanks, everyone. I just got home and did a quick stress clean of the living room and played with a very impatient birdo.

    The hospital thing happened over 2 years ago; it was early in our relationship. However, it was the same day that we had just looked at an apartment to move in together, which was a HUGE deal to me. Meanwhile, I hadn't been taking care of myself; I was in the throes of a very awful flare of ulcerative colitis, and I ended up severely dehydrated. I knew I needed IV fluids, but there were a zillion hospitals nearby, a friend was picking me up to take me to one of them, and I knew once I had fluids in me, I'd be totally fine. But I was still a little irked that J was so unsure about whether or not to go to his parents' house. He did come with me and he's glad he did. If his parents were anything less than 100% worried for me and relieved I was okay, they've NEVER let on. It's definitely his own anxiety.

    Same with last night. He didn't want to upset his brothers by having to reschedule. But I don't see how, "Hey guys, phira is really exhausted and she's got an even more exhausting day ahead of her tomorrow. I can't stay out late. Since [youngest brother] is so late anyway, it's probably best to pick this up next week if we can. I'll pay for food next time!" is something SO TERRIBLE to say. Both brothers have canceled plans (as recently as Mother's Day) because their wives aren't feeling well, and no one's been upset.

    I definitely do not want to put restrictions on who he sees, how often he sees them, how long he can see them for, etc etc. But I know there's something in between the extremes.

    What a lot of you have said, and that @cu97tiger hit on really well, is something my mom said to me this morning. She said, "Your marriage has to come first." And I really think that's what I need to push with J. It's not that he always has to pick me, do what I say, etc. But being in a relationship--being married--isn't like living your normal life with your family and then going back to your apartment and having someone waiting for you.

    @buddysmom80 I've brought up the whole, "I can't fall asleep if I'm not sure when you're coming home" thing before in the context of his OCD. I've pointed out his own sleep quirks and needs that he's made really clear and I've tried to accommodate. I've also pointed out how we often stay up really late fighting because he can't sleep if he thinks I'm angry at him (so we have to end the fight so he can sleep). He still doesn't understand; I think he thinks I'm deliberately waiting up, and calling that "not being able to sleep." The truth is, I often stay up because I tried to sleep and couldn't (last night included).

    @blue I'm almost afraid to email our venue and ask about postponing. They've got almost 75% of the bill already, and the rest isn't due till 2 weeks before the wedding. Everyone else has smaller deposits I wouldn't mind losing, but some vendors seem chill enough that they might return deposits or let us book a different date.

    @AuroraRose41 What's so upsetting is that J saw me through the longest and worst UC flare I've ever had and was amazingly supportive and understanding. He's seen firsthand what the illness does, and he's also really concerned about the side effects of my infusions. I'm on Remicade, and while the infusions are effective and I'm been in remission for a year now, every infusion leaves me exhausted for about a week, to the point where I often can't get out of bed. It makes this week's behavior even more upsetting--he knows how tired I get from infusions, and how it impacts my whole life.

    I really cannot even express how amazing you ladies are, and how wonderful your support is. I know that my experience isn't unique, and I appreciate the suggestions and feedback. I do love him and want to spend my life with him, but I don't want to spend the rest of my life playing second fiddle to his biological family.
    Anniversary
    now with ~* INCREASED SASSINESS *~
    image
  • @phira I am sorry that this all went down, especially during a time in which he should have been more sympathetic to your needs.  I can totally understand your frustration, and I am in awe that you were able to handle yourself as well as you did (I know I wouldn't have). 

    That being said, I think your last point is extremely valid.  You are willing to work with him, but this fight over him choosing his family over you will not go away immediately, and it probably won't get better once you're married unless he is addressing these issues within your relationship. The issue is more than just him choosing his family over you, its the fact that you are trying to improve the relationship by being more understanding and improving your side, but he hasn't made the same effort (at least this is what it seems like to me).  

    DISCLAIMER, THIS NEXT PART IS ALL SPECULATION: You've also mentioned a number of times that he has a diagnosis of OCD. I know that OCD can be extremely debilitating, but have you allowed it to be an "excuse" for his negative behaviors? I know that sounds outlandish, but think about it, lets say you get into a fight with J, he says something unreasonable, he doesn't act appropriately etc. do you find yourself saying, "he only acts this way because he has OCD"?  If his behaviors, do, in fact, stem from OCD (and he knows that these symptoms cause fights), I would hope that he would want to get treatment, not only for himself, but to improve the relationship overall. But if you do find him saying "oh I did xyz because I have OCD", he gets to justify his behavior (because if you were to call him out saying that its not an excuse, it just looks bad), and it continues without consequence. Either way, this issue is emotionally draining, and you can only handle so much, you are doing the right thing in seeking out a counselor. You have to take care of yourself, and cannot be the only one doing all the work. 

    If I were in this situation, I would ask my friend if I could crash at her place to get some sleep, and then return home once I felt rested. I would acknowledge that this ongoing fight is not something to be taken lightly, and that you are getting married. With that said, I think that its reasonable to tell him how you're feeling: that your at wits end, and that you cannot move forward with this wedding unless the dynamic of the relationship changes. You are very smart to put off a wedding until these issues are being addressed, and are continuously being worked on.  My therapist has always said that good behavior takes time to establish, and it really seems like the time-frame between now and your wedding isn't long enough. Even if you issue an ultimatum, and he does go to treatment, there is no guarantee that he will continue to attend therapy after the wedding. IMHO, I think that it would be better to publicly postpone the wedding in order to work things out both individually and as a couple, than to go through with it, and hope things will naturally improve from then on. 

    Again I am so sorry, many virtual hugs to you.

  • @phira Have you checked your contract yet?  Ours had specific info about cancellation in there (how much the venue keeps past this date, etc.) - I don't think it had anything spelled out about postponement, but you never know.  That might be less scary than emailing.  And I would probably wait a day or so until you have some time to talk to your partner to officially postpone, but I don't think it'd be a bad idea to find out what that means financially.

    EITHER WAY, EVEN IF THEY TAKE 100% OF THE FUNDS, it is not worth being married just cause you're gonna lose your deposit :)
    I guess, to tell you the truth, I've never had much of a desire to grow facial hair. I think I've managed to play quarterback just fine without a mustache. - Peyton
  • @Phira - First of all, hugs.  You are exhausted and going through a lot.  With the facts you've laid out with this instance, I can see why J would be slightly irritated with you even though I think he is also WAY out of line with his family.  As to the irritation point- you knew he was going, you know from past experience that he gets home at 12-1 when he goes, you knew you would be tired when you would get home, you already discussed the issue and you knew he wouldn't commit to coming home earlier when you had your first fight leading up to this one (I'll get to the latter point, which is BS on his end, later).  He probably thought you conceeded that he didn't need to commit to a time to come home by dropping the point (sometimes men and women think this way...if you fought over it, made up and didn't bring it up again in making up its like it magically disappeared as an issue). Then you call and bring up the point again when he is with others. I'd be irritated if I thought H had dropped a request I rejected and then re-brought it up in front of others without picking a calmer one-on-one time to rediscuss it (though I know that isn't always possible in the heat of the moment). 

    I think him thinking he can come home "whenever" is BS so I, in NO WAY, think that is cool.  If it was me, I would have re-brought up the fact that you need him to commit to a time in coming home the next day after your first fight when you guys were making up about fighting over it....clear communication about expectations knocks out a lot of arguments.  Why didn't you discuss it again at that point?  Were you worried it would just start the argument all over again?  If so, I'm worried you will never be his priority #1 if you are always walking on eggshells around the issue of his family. 

    I agree with PP that he should be putting you first over family.  His pattern of behavior in not commiting to a time to be home is BS and the hospital thing?!? WTF. You should know when to roughly expect him absent an emergency on his end.  His younger brother appearing late does not equal an emergency. I can relate to your experience with an ex who had a gambling issue.  He would often take off on weekends and I wouldn't see him until 2-4 am the next morning.  We had bitter, bitter fights over it (he wouldn't commit to coming home at a certain time if he "was on a roll") and eventually I realized he had an addiction he didn't want to work on and I wasn't priority #1 so I left.  Counseling helped me reach that point.  I hope counseling will help you and J in the opposite direction but, either way, it will help.  Huge hugs to you.  Are you going home tonight?

  • Very sorry you are going through this. Everyone has already commented on many aspects of your situation and all have great input. What aspect hit me more than most was about seeking counseling. I was engaged before and first canceled the wedding, with the idea we would go to counseling to work on our issues. The ex dragged his feet so I suggested we go to the counselor he was already seeing for grief issues. We went to one session and that was all I needed to know I had to end the relationship. I realized he previously lied to me and told me he discussed a specific issue with his counselor individually that I thought was affecting our relationship. He told me after we went to that session that he was mad I brought up that issue during the session because he never told his counselor about it. Thus, he lied to me about ever addressing it. I knew he wasn't invested in it at all. Anyway, I'm rambling...but if he is being picky about what kind of therapist he will see, he is probably not very invested in counseling at all. Bottom line, I put a lot of eggs in the "counseling will fix our issues" basket, because I believe in counseling...(I'm a social worker). But he was not invested so it was never going to do much. Please just keep that in mind. And please take care of yourself and your health during this difficult time! Also, I don't see an issue with addressing the venue postponement now rather than later. You don't even have to tell them why, just that there may be circumstances that cause you to have to cancel/postpone and you would like to find out what they will do for you/how they might work with you.
  • phiraphira member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    @minskat30 I'm home right now, actually. My best friend is a veterinarian who currently lives about 35 minutes (driving) outside the city and happened to be transitioning to an overnight schedule. It was one reason I tried to go to work first without calling her to ask if I could stay with her; I assumed she was at work. But she was home from work and needed to stay up till at least 5 am and could comfortably stay up even "later," and she drove into the city at 2am to pick me up and let me stay at her place till I needed to go to work. J will be home pretty soon, and if things are looking bad again tonight, it'll be easier for me to find someone to stay with (because it won't be 1 or 2 in the morning), but my friend will be at work.

    @Blue oh yeah, that's why I'm taking this so seriously. Those are sunk funds as far as I'm concerned--I'm out that much money if I get married or not.

    @pepperally That's a really good point. J is very wah wah wah about what I consider traditional counseling--you go and talk to a neutral party once a week and you can vent or talk about exciting new things in your life, or bring up problems you want to work on, and they act as a sounding board and ask questions to get you thinking about what you really want or what you're really feeling. My parents split about 11 years ago, and one factor was that my dad refused to go to therapy when my mom wanted to. Huge red flag.

    @bride2b71614 He was diagnosed with OCD a long time ago (his dad has milder OCD as well). Before we met, he was in treatment for it--seeing a psychiatrist somewhat regularly and taking medication. He doesn't want to go back on medication, and I honestly haven't seen a difference between him on and him off meds (besides the loss of some of the sexual side effects). But he hasn't seen a mental health doctor in YEARS at this point. After so many renditions of, "It's hard to have OCD and be in a relationship," I feel like, "Yeah it is, so get some fucking help already." There's only so much I can do on my own in counseling--I can't do his counseling self-discovery/improvement/whatever for him.
    Anniversary
    now with ~* INCREASED SASSINESS *~
    image
  • @phira I am sending you so many internet hugs! And I know my father is trained to and has given many Remicade infusions, especially since he has all of these pens and highlighters and other knick knacks with that drug name on them from the training sessions he has attended. Anyways, this is also off topic, but what my father does for a living is home care infusions. I don't know if you are aware of that or if you get it done now, but it sounds pretty rare, and might be something for you to look into if you have to go to a hospital/office now for the infusions. I wish you all the best, and will be here if you need anything. *****HUGS*****

  • @Phira - Just saw your update.  I hope you know you should be able to expect J to say to his family "Hey guys, phira is really exhausted and she's got an even more exhausting day ahead of her tomorrow. I can't stay out late..." before he goes to events with his family. If you've addressed the issue multiple times and keep hitting a brick wall with him...I hate to say it but you might need to tell him you are ready to move on (if you are) if he doesn't do something about this issue as well as his OCD.  You are right...you cannot do his self-discovery for him.  I'm sorry, this must be so hard for you.  My turning point was both counseling and realizing that my ex would treat any future kids we had in the same manner he was treating me (I want kids...not sure if you do so that may not be helpful).  It really helped me visualize how selfish he was to not get help. 

  • @phira I am so sorry that you are having to deal with this.  As some of the other ladies have said, you should be able to expect that the person you are marrying has your back, even with his family.  DH and I had to have the conversation regarding his family and about how "we" are a family now.  Our needs come FIRST.  Extended family sometimes will need to take a backseat to that.

    The one that took some time was the idea of me trying to somehow limit his time.  We got in to a couple of huge fights regarding me wanting him to let me know if he was planning to go out farther in advance than like 2 hours and wanting to know when he'd be home, etc.  When we finally got down to it, he was worried that I was trying to be controlling like his ex who never wanted him to spend time out with friends.  I distinctly remember screaming at him that it was the decent and respectful thing to do!  I remember him being so flabberghasted that I wanted him to plan his evenings out so that I could ALSO go out with friends.

    I truly hope that you are able to get in to counseling together.  We had what most would consider a "deal breaker" issue prior to getting engaged  and I said counseling or hit the door.  He went to counseling.  Every week for several months.  He went on his own as well.  We would not be married today if he'd resisted.  You are dead on in the fact that YOU can't do the work for him.  I think that you are a smart lady to step back and really evaluate if getting married is the right thing for you.  Is it possible for you two to maybe take a break for a week or so?  We're here for you to talk/vent as much as you need. <3


    Daisypath Anniversary tickers
  • image

    @Phira - I'm sorry you're going through this.  I wish I had words of wisdom for you.


    image
    Anniversary
  • @loves2shop4shoes said it very well... it's about NEEDS vs WANTS, and adjusting those priorities accordingly. It may just be some growing pains, and your FI will come around/mature. but I strongly believe that you have to look at the situation as it is right now and ask if NOTHING changes, can you live like this.

    I don't mean that to sound ominous. I mean that seriously, if nothing ever changes with your FIs behavior, can you be in this relationship. If the answer is yes, then great! You can still try to make some positive changes. If the answer is no, then I think that that is your answer. And no amount of money lost on deposits is worth going through with a wedding that doesn't feel 100% right.
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    Daisypath Anniversary tickers

    "You are made of win." -SopChick
    Still here and still fabulous!

  • phiraphira member
    5000 Comments 500 Love Its Second Anniversary 5 Answers
    So he came home and we had more fighting. It got very bad at a lot of points. For him, postponing the wedding would make him feel like we were broken up, or like we were on a break while I was deciding whether or not I was going to dump him. And he also felt like when we had gotten engaged, we were committed to being married, and that if I had gotten engaged without being sure that I wanted to marry him, then I shouldn't have said yes. I tried to remind him of last summer, when I had suggested we put off getting engaged, and he was really upset about it and wouldn't hear of it. So like ... he seems to have rewritten the past a bit there.

    He's not really seeing the situation last night as him choosing to leave me miserable and sleep-deprived so he wouldn't disappoint his brothers. He's much more focused on how I had (to him) told him he wasn't allowed to stay out and had to come home immediately. He also told me more info that honestly made the situation a lot more troublesome: his sisters-in-law going to the concert together had been planned months ago and the whole video game night had been planned around the concert--without my knowledge (plus I feel a little left out now! Not that I could have gone, but I wasn't invited!). Furthermore, his youngest brother had driven, not taken public transit, and was sober--he could have driven J home at any point, but it was more convenient for him to wait until he was on his way home anyway (hours later).

    Honestly, it hasn't been resolved at all. Awesome. And J is still hung up over how I should be able to sleep when he's not home, so he shouldn't have had to come home early. He really thinks that my reasons were bullshit.

    We did talk about a couple of problems we've been having--we're going to try to change how and when I go to bed so that I can wind down and sleep easily, and so he can wind down and sleep easily. And from now on, we'll discuss when we'll both be home if we're going to be out late at not-work things, and update each other if we're staying later than planned or if something's come up. And if we are staying later than planned, the other person reserves the right to say, "Um maybe not?"

    So, the plan now is that I'm starting individual counseling, and we'll be going back to couple's counseling, and it'll be weekly and the cost will be irrelevant. Individual counseling is going to be harder to get him into, but there is a new clinic opening near him in September, and it's specifically being opened to make it easier for university employees to get medical care (the medical campus is inconveniently located). So he could go on a lunch break once a week for therapy if he couldn't get a morning or afternoon regular appointment.

    In the meantime, we will revisit postponing the wedding in September, which is when invitations would go out. Right now, we're making up and trying to relax (and eat--we've both been having trouble most of the day).

    Short version:

    - You all are the best ever and I wish I could hug everyone and buy everyone a drink (or two or three)
    - A postponement is a break-up, emotionally, for J, so it's something that we might need to revisit, but we'll wait until September to revisit (unless shit really hits the fan)
    - We'll both go to counseling, through and after the wedding as well, and it's a top priority
    - J is still really not getting what's wrong, but we'll see how therapy goes
    Anniversary
    now with ~* INCREASED SASSINESS *~
    image
  • I am seriously late to this thread, but just wanted to send you some hugs and vibes since everyone else has covered all the advice and wisdom. I am hoping for the best for you! It is so frustrating that he can't or won't see underlying issue, but counseling may very well help with that. Sometimes a third party to help you understand each other can work miracles and help you with through problems that once seemed insurmountable. If absolutely no other good comes from it, though, I am so glad that you are watching out for yourself and recognizing and confronting this now. You're awesome, @Phira. <3
  • I told my FI about this and he thinks that the first steps with counseling are good. He's curious about why J is so resistant to seeing someone for treatment of OCD on his own, especially since he was treated before.

    He does kind of get the inconveniencing others around gaming issue - sometimes he does the same thing. It's like having a group of people required for things, and sometimes when someone ditches out, it really screws with the whole thing. At the same time, if they're regular events, it's not a bad thing to say "we can do this again." And that seems to be what J's not getting.

    He thinks it should be no big deal for you guys to text back and forth during gaming, especially where the end of the night/transportation is concerned.
  • phira said:
    So he came home and we had more fighting. It got very bad at a lot of points. For him, postponing the wedding would make him feel like we were broken up, or like we were on a break while I was deciding whether or not I was going to dump him. And he also felt like when we had gotten engaged, we were committed to being married, and that if I had gotten engaged without being sure that I wanted to marry him, then I shouldn't have said yes. I tried to remind him of last summer, when I had suggested we put off getting engaged, and he was really upset about it and wouldn't hear of it. So like ... he seems to have rewritten the past a bit there.
    First of all, I'm late but I'm still sending you ALL the hugs. I'm so sorry you're going through all this.

    To the bolded - honestly, that's how I felt when FI wanted to postpone our wedding planning after a disagreement about having biological children. However, that doesn't invalidate your feelings and needs. I think it's wise of you to tread cautiously instead of forging ahead into marriage with these issues unresolved. It's great that you're taking steps to address the issues, even if J isn't really getting it yet. Hopefully your counselor will be able to give you some insight to help guide communication with J. And hopefully his counselor will help him to listen better and understand what needs to change.

    Take care of yourself. I'm sure you're a sweet, selfless person and you sincerely want the best for J, but you shouldn't have to sacrifice your well-being to accommodate his issues.
    Wedding Countdown Ticker



  • bethsmilesbethsmiles member
    10000 Comments Sixth Anniversary 500 Love Its First Answer
    edited June 2014
    @Phira - I'm so late to this but I want to send so many hugs and so much wine (or any other alcohol) your way! No matter what happens, I hope that counseling will help you figure out what you need to make YOU happy. You are such an amazing presence on this board and always give amazing advice so even though I don't know you in person, I can tell you are an amazingly strong woman! 

    For what it's worth, I completely understand not being able to sleep if your SO isn't home. BF and I don't even live together and if he's out it can be hard for me to sleep until I know that he has gotten home safely. It's just not fair for him to brush your feelings aside as unimportant, even if they are irrational to him.

    funny lord of the rings hug gif

    Edited for formatting because TK hates me latly


  • First of all,

    funnyhunger games hug gif

    Now, let me just say that I am angry and annoyed for you and if I was in your situation I would be a huge mess right now. You are being amazingly strong about this and you amaze me. 

    I am glad he agreed to therapy, because to be honest, if he hadn't, I would consider it to be huge problem and would seriously contemplate having to end the relationship. That is just based on my limited understanding of the situation though.

    I don't have any relevant advice as I am angry at J for you and want to yell at him right now. I am also so frustrated just reading this, so I have no idea how you must feel. I wish I could offer you more than anger at J, support, and hugs. Especially cat hugs.

    funny cat hug gif
    Daisypath Anniversary tickers

  • @phira - I am so sorry you're going through this. Sending you all the hugs. 

    So, I keep going back and forth with my thoughts. On one hand, I do think it's a little silly that you wanted him to come home just so you could go to sleep. That said, I think his behavior is totally unacceptable. It's not difficult to pick up the phone and call someone or send them a text. There seems to be a serious lack of communication on his part and obviously that's a red flag. I'm so glad to read your updates and see that he is open to counseling and I really hope it helps him and your relationship. 



This discussion has been closed.
Choose Another Board
Search Boards