Etiquette grudge

RebeccaFlower

There is no way in fuck this woman would be setting foot in my house. 

lilacck28

I'd be careful of the photoshop thing. Check your contract with your photographer. The one that I might sign soon has a creative clause about not altering the photos (major cropping, etc.) Which does seem a bit much to me but... I would think sending your photographer's photos to someone else to alter certainly falls under the no-zone, if you had a clause like that in your contract. 

Which makes me wonder....how strict are those clauses? Is it something I should discuss/ negotiate with my photographer? I thought they were pretty normal. Ugh. I hate contract negotiation. 

banana468

I'm curious about what your husband said. Frankly, my response would NOT be apologetic at all. If anyone needs to apologize it would be her however my response would also depend upon how much I wanted my husband to maintain his friendship with his BM.

If I wanted them to stay friends I would not say anything other than, "It's unfortunate that you feel this way. Do you like the view from your room? " The matter would NOT be up for discussion beyond that one statement.

If that was the straw that broke the camel's back then I would tell my husband that he could handle it or I could handle it but I would NOT be made to feel like I did something wrong when his friend's wife is all guano loco.

ladyamanuet

banana468 said:

I'm curious about what your husband said. Frankly, my response would NOT be apologetic at all. If anyone needs to apologize it would be her however my response would also depend upon how much I wanted my husband to maintain his friendship with his BM. If I wanted them to stay friends I would not say anything other than, "It's unfortunate that you feel this way. Do you like the view from your room? " The matter would NOT be up for discussion beyond that one statement. If that was the straw that broke the camel's back then I would tell my husband that he could handle it or I could handle it but I would NOT be made to feel like I did something wrong when his friend's wife is all guano loco.

This might be my new favorite thing

sarawifenow

I have nothing to add except that I keep picturing this woman photo bombing and I can't stop giggling.

KatieinBkln

Wow! I am late to this party but just wanted to reiterate:

A. You did nothing wrong

B. This bish is cray

C. Your photographer should have stopped the photobombing, but given that s/he didn't, s/he should absolutely photoshop her crazy head out of your photos, FO FREE

D. If this lady says ANYTHING to you, you are well within your rights to act completely shocked, and say, very innocently, "How strange that you feel that way! And to think, I was holding my own grudge against you for ruining all my wedding photos. Isn't life funny?" *smile, walk away*. Failing that, I like @banana468's advice. Condescend to her like the petulant child she is, change the subject, leave the room.

UGH. I am filled with rage on your behalf!

lkristenj

@lilacck28 - My contract didn't have anything like that in it. It has a full release and every photo is mine to do with as I want, including printing and any further editing (all come edited) I desire. He did retain the right to use images in his advertising or as examples for other couples, if he wanted, which is fine to me.

I have a hard time even taking a clause like that seriously. What about scrapbooks where people might trim printed photos? What about instances like the OP's where the photos were sabotaged and the photographer didn't notice? I understand the creativity some photographers put into their photos and their editing, but honestly they need to get over it. Many many hours are spent editing thousands of photos. I have a close friend who is a professional photographer. I get it. But, if you want to be a creative art photographer, work freelance or for a magazine. Otherwise, your duty is to your client and you should give them what they want. I'll never understand wedding photographers who act like you should be grateful they're working for you, like they're doing you a favor. Or the ones who limit the number of photos you get. In the digital age, space is not as much of an issue like it was with film. Nearly all photographers I looked at (I have a spreadsheet of 65 photographers I compared in my area) offer unlimited photos. I want to tell them that they must think they're really good to charge me $2500 for 4 hours and then only give me 100 edited images. They need to get over themselves. There are better options.

Btw, I didn't choose my photographer friend to take my wedding photos. Not only is she not a wedding photographer, she is more creative and artsy and I hate the way she edits most of her photos. The editing is what turned me off to so many of the options I considered. My photographer fits my style and has an extensive portfolio that shows that he consistently does what I like. I think that is one of the most important factors in choosing a photographer.

Sorry for the photography rant.

OP, I also think she is ridiculous. I also wouldn't worry too much about being near her. You aren't close and your husbands will probably remain friends regardless. Just take the high road, be reasonable and calm, and I don't think anyone will fault you for a thing, even if she does explode. They'll just think she's crazy, which she is.

Maggie0829

lkristenj said:

@lilacck28 - My contract didn't have anything like that in it. It has a full release and every photo is mine to do with as I want, including printing and any further editing (all come edited) I desire. He did retain the right to use images in his advertising or as examples for other couples, if he wanted, which is fine to me.

I have a hard time even taking a clause like that seriously. What about scrapbooks where people might trim printed photos? What about instances like the OP's where the photos were sabotaged and the photographer didn't notice? I understand the creativity some photographers put into their photos and their editing, but honestly they need to get over it. Many many hours are spent editing thousands of photos. I have a close friend who is a professional photographer. I get it. But, if you want to be a creative art photographer, work freelance or for a magazine. Otherwise, your duty is to your client and you should give them what they want. I'll never understand wedding photographers who act like you should be grateful they're working for you, like they're doing you a favor. Or the ones who limit the number of photos you get. In the digital age, space is not as much of an issue like it was with film. Nearly all photographers I looked at (I have a spreadsheet of 65 photographers I compared in my area) offer unlimited photos. I want to tell them that they must think they're really good to charge me $2500 for 4 hours and then only give me 100 edited images. They need to get over themselves. There are better options.

I think these clauses are more about editing the photos and then having them used in magazines or websites or such to help promote someone else's work. Photographers I doubt would be happy to have their work edited and then put in publications without their approval. I doubt they cover a person editing the photo them self and then putting it into a photo album or scrapbook or what not.

beethery

LondonLisa said:

Anyone holding onto a perceived minor slight for seven years (!!) has serious issues. I would feel uncomfortable staying in the same house as her if she has been stewing on this for nearly a decade. I feel like she would want some sort of confrontation about it, so be aware- don't get sucked into her crazy.

As for the photos- it just proves that she is lacking major self awareness and that anything where she isn't included is a direct insult to her.  If you took those photos to a good digital photographer, it would be easy and not too expensive to photoshop her out of it.  

As I read your whole post, I could only keep saying "seriously?! who does that?!"

scrunchythief said:

Photoshop, photoshop, photoshop.  You might even have a friend who could do it.  My friend once photoshopped someone out of a picture, and now people think the original is the photoshopped one.

All this after you let them stay in your house the weekend of your wedding?!?  Even for family, unless it was emergency, there is no way I'd have let them stay in my house if that's where my new husband and I were spending our wedding night.  

As for the weekend you're spending with them...I think there's a pretty high chance she'd bring it up.  PP are much better at thinking what to say than I am, but might I also recommend trying to not be alone with her?  If there's someone else there to witness this, maybe that'll mitigate her rant.  Provided they're not as irrational as she is being.  Has her husband said anything about this?

ETA for clarity.

@1026Pumpkin I know you don't know me, but if you have digital photos from your wedding with that crazy ass bitch in them, I will be happy to offer my services of digitally removing her FOR FREE. I have a decent amount of professional experience with photo retouching, and I can't imagine seeing that wack bitch's face in all my wedding photos.

Please let me know if you'd like to take me up on this, and I can have them finished for you by Tuesday morning.

ladyamanuet

@beethery, not only do I love your signature and your presence on these boards... but I now I love whoever you are in real life too. What an awesome gesture. You rock lady.  Here, have a drink on me

KGold80

@beethery - I heart you. For your offer to help a total stranger and the phrase "guano loco".

beethery

@KGold80 thank you!

But, I think you're attributing guano loco to the wrong person, whoever used that phrase deserves and award, and Ima steal the phrase lol

@ladyamanuet BLUUUUSSSHHHHHHHHH***** I appreciate it

KatieinBkln

beethery said:

@KGold80 thank you!

But, I think you're attributing guano loco to the wrong person, whoever used that phrase deserves and award, and Ima steal the phrase lol

@ladyamanuet BLUUUUSSSHHHHHHHHH***** I appreciate it

Awww, this whole sub-thread is warming my heart. And people say Knotties are bitches! PSHAW, I say! 

photokitty

lilacck28 said:

I'd be careful of the photoshop thing. Check your contract with your photographer. The one that I might sign soon has a creative clause about not altering the photos (major cropping, etc.) Which does seem a bit much to me but... I would think sending your photographer's photos to someone else to alter certainly falls under the no-zone, if you had a clause like that in your contract. 

Which makes me wonder....how strict are those clauses? Is it something I should discuss/ negotiate with my photographer? I thought they were pretty normal. Ugh. I hate contract negotiation. 

I would highly advise against signing with a photog that does not allow you to crop or alter the photos for personal use. I see no issue with not allowing copped or altered images to be used online or for advertising - which most contracts clearly state you can't use them for profit.

But if you want to crop the photos closer or photoshop out your sister's ex-husband, you should be allowed to do so for use in your living room. People that consider their images to be fine art that can't be altered are pirmadonnas. You are paying them to get the images you want and if you want to crop them that should be up to you.

lilacck28

Honestly... I figured she would never know if I saw a pimple and photoshopped it out myself! @Maggie0892 was right, the clause is mostly about me sending the photos to a magazine or blog without notifying the photographer/ crediting the photographer, and mentions that "minimal cropping for printing" is fine. Hmm. Still something I may bring up with her. Maybe I'll want to crop FI or family members out of a picture and use it as a profile picture on fb! 

 I  only mentioned it because I'm a little paranoid, and money changing hands to alter photos seemed risky if the OP had a similar clause as I mentioned. 

lkristenj

@photokitty - Thank you for saying what I was trying to say only better. I 100% agree.

My photographer friend gave me an image she took of me and my dog to use online if I wanted. I love the photo and it was a free low-ish res digital image from her work. She just asked me not to crop it or get rid of her watermark in exchange for giving it to me. I had no problem with that.

offensivekitten2

She's fucking crazy. I disagree with PP saying to explain yourself. Engaging her like that is exactly what she wants. She'll start hysterics if you leave the topic open.

Instead, be firm and refuse to engage. If she brings it up, tell her politely you aren't talking about it, and walk away no matter what her response is. If she pouts and cold shoulders you, let her have at it. She'll sit by her self and stew in high school misery.

photokitty

That clause used to be more prevalent back in the days of film. I still thought it was BS back then. There were photogs that wouldn't give you print rights or the negatives. I would never hire a photog that doesn't get high res images with print rights. Do you really want to track down your photog if your house floods or there is a fire and you loose the prints?

It's one thing if they are requiring certain things for online use. But you should legally be able to alter the images any way you want for home use.

When I was married the first time I really wanted this one photog, but they said they didn't allow anyone to alter the images but them - no cropping photoshoping, color correction, nada. I did not hire them, I did not even consider them with my second wedding - bc although I think they are amazing, I am paying them for their skill, not to hold my images hostage and not allow me to do with them as I please IMHO

ashleyep

scrunchythief said:

Photoshop, photoshop, photoshop.  You might even have a friend who could do it.  My friend once photoshopped someone out of a picture, and now people think the original is the photoshopped one.

All this after you let them stay in your house the weekend of your wedding?!?  Even for family, unless it was emergency, there is no way I'd have let them stay in my house if that's where my new husband and I were spending our wedding night.  

As for the weekend you're spending with them...I think there's a pretty high chance she'd bring it up.  PP are much better at thinking what to say than I am, but might I also recommend trying to not be alone with her?  If there's someone else there to witness this, maybe that'll mitigate her rant.  Provided they're not as irrational as she is being.  Has her husband said anything about this?

ETA for clarity.

I managed to miss our extended family photo at my cousin's wedding. I photoshopped myself into it. You can only tell if you know to look for it.

ETA: My photographer has a clause about not editing photos. I had some engagement photos that I wanted to edit out the bags under our eyes. She asked me to please not photoshop the photos and she did it for me. Fine. I think she doesn't want you to edit her photos and then plaster them all over the internet making people think she did that. It says "The Client also agrees not alter any of the images in any way."

But after the wedding, if I want to photoshop something in a photo to print it, you bet your booty I'm going to do it. And I cropped a bunch of the pictures for use on our save the dates and whatnot. I didn't even think about it.

ashley8918

beethery said:

@1026Pumpkin I know you don't know me, but if you have digital photos from your wedding with that crazy ass bitch in them, I will be happy to offer my services of digitally removing her FOR FREE. I have a decent amount of professional experience with photo retouching, and I can't imagine seeing that wack bitch's face in all my wedding photos.

Please let me know if you'd like to take me up on this, and I can have them finished for you by Tuesday morning.

You are my favorite person, just so you know.

ETA: OP, she is crazy! You are the one who deserves an apology, and I would absolutely refuse to discuss it with her.

beethery

ashley8918 said:

beethery said:

@1026Pumpkin I know you don't know me, but if you have digital photos from your wedding with that crazy ass bitch in them, I will be happy to offer my services of digitally removing her FOR FREE. I have a decent amount of professional experience with photo retouching, and I can't imagine seeing that wack bitch's face in all my wedding photos.

Please let me know if you'd like to take me up on this, and I can have them finished for you by Tuesday morning.

You are my favorite person, just so you know.

ETA: OP, she is crazy! You are the one who deserves an apology, and I would absolutely refuse to discuss it with her.

lc07

The reason many photographers retain copyright and do not allow you to edit the images yourself is because it misrepresents their brand. If you do some crazy editing or making something look like shit and it's hanging in your house and your friends come over and see it and say "Oh, who was your photographer?" Your photographer doesn't want the photo to look like anything other than what they gave you. That makes perfect sense to me.

wrigleyville

Banana was the one who said "guano loco".

1026pumpkin

Simply Fated said:

She tagged along to the bachelor party? For reals? Did they say anything or did they not care? I wonder if the photographer thought she was supposed to be there in the pics. I mean, no one else said anything, so maybe he assumed she belonged. Anyway, she sounds crazy and the fact that she purposely put herself into all of the pictures as some form of vengeance makes me think she has a narcisistic personality disorder.

Yuppers, she apparently just jumped in the car when the guys were leaving for bachelor activities, and everyone was thinking WTF, but didn't want to call her out! So weird! As far as the photographer goes- yes, I was initially super-pissed that he (or someone else in my family!) didn't say anything. After calming down a bit, I realized that when I met with our photographer initially, I told him that my mom did want some of the traditional, formal shots, but our style is very much more photojournalistic, and asked him to try to focus more on the candid shots....so I think he just figured she was a VIP because she stuck to us like glue and figured we wanted her in the pictures. He was also very soft spoken and not the type of person to dictate things (which was one of the things I liked about him- I didn't want a bossy photographer running my wedding). In retrospect, if we had a bossier photog, this wouldn't have happened. Much of what this lady's behavior, in general, is attention-seeking and it's the primary reason I don't enjoy her company. It feels like you're dealing with a toddler trapped in a woman's body....maybe that's how I need to treat this situation!

1026pumpkin

beethery said:

LondonLisa said:

Anyone holding onto a perceived minor slight for seven years (!!) has serious issues. I would feel uncomfortable staying in the same house as her if she has been stewing on this for nearly a decade. I feel like she would want some sort of confrontation about it, so be aware- don't get sucked into her crazy.

As for the photos- it just proves that she is lacking major self awareness and that anything where she isn't included is a direct insult to her.  If you took those photos to a good digital photographer, it would be easy and not too expensive to photoshop her out of it.  

As I read your whole post, I could only keep saying "seriously?! who does that?!"

scrunchythief said:

Photoshop, photoshop, photoshop.  You might even have a friend who could do it.  My friend once photoshopped someone out of a picture, and now people think the original is the photoshopped one.

All this after you let them stay in your house the weekend of your wedding?!?  Even for family, unless it was emergency, there is no way I'd have let them stay in my house if that's where my new husband and I were spending our wedding night.  

As for the weekend you're spending with them...I think there's a pretty high chance she'd bring it up.  PP are much better at thinking what to say than I am, but might I also recommend trying to not be alone with her?  If there's someone else there to witness this, maybe that'll mitigate her rant.  Provided they're not as irrational as she is being.  Has her husband said anything about this?

ETA for clarity.

@1026Pumpkin I know you don't know me, but if you have digital photos from your wedding with that crazy ass bitch in them, I will be happy to offer my services of digitally removing her FOR FREE. I have a decent amount of professional experience with photo retouching, and I can't imagine seeing that wack bitch's face in all my wedding photos.

Please let me know if you'd like to take me up on this, and I can have them finished for you by Tuesday morning.

Beethery- can I just send you some internet love, because you are amazing!  DH is pretty proficient with photoshop and was actually just talking a few weeks ago about needing to just sit down and delete her out...I think he was a little worried that if she saw she had been deleted, she would get offended, but she'll just have to deal.  But you are super sweet and amazing to offer your services!  Virtual cake to you!!! 

To answer some of the questions above- our contract did have a clause that we weren't supposed to edit them, but as long as we just do it for our own home use and aren't tagging the photographer on Facebook, etc. with the doctored versions, I can't imagine he would ever find out or care.

I know that I'm super duper passed the wedding planning stage, but you ladies are awesome and have amazing gifs!  Can I just keep posting here with all my problems, because you guys have some great advice!

beethery

@1026Pumpkin y'all ought to put them on FB, caption them as PHOTOBOMB, WE SEE YOU!!!! and tag only her.

Maybe that would sate her need for attention

I appreciate it, and I'm glad you guys are going to figure something out

KatieinBkln

Wow. It sounds like people in this woman's life have been tiptoeing around her for some time. DH doesn't want to photoshop her out in case she gets upset? I mean, really? Let her! It sounds like she's generally upset all the time either way, so at least one of you should be happy...

beethery

KatieinBkln said:

Wow. It sounds like people in this woman's life have been tiptoeing around her for some time. DH doesn't want to photoshop her out in case she gets upset? I mean, really? Let her! It sounds like she's generally upset all the time either way, so at least one of you should be happy...

For real, the lady has surrounded herself with eggshells and told everybody they're land mines. She is a person, albeit a crazy one, but inconveniencing himself so that she doesn't feel any repercussions for her TRULY SHIT behavior is not worthwhile.

[Deleted User]

This woman sounds like a complete nut.  You did nothing wrong and seemed to go the extra mile to "entertain" her while her husband was taking part in your day. 

Zhabeego

No, you didn't goof - at all. There is no rule or requirement that if you ask a person to be in the wedding party, you have to include their spouse as well. I had my friends as BM's, my husband had his as GM's. No spouses were included. If anyone had any heartburn over this I didn't hear anything about it. My husband will be the best man in his brother's upcoming wedding. I am not in the bridal party and didn't expect to be. Why would I? This chick is out to lunch. If this comes up, just tell her you are very sorry she was disappointed and change the subject. If she won't let it drop just keep repeating you're sorry she was disappointed. Don't let her draw you into a discussion and don't defend, explain or apologize for your choices.