NWR: Kendall Jones Discussion

Sugargirl1019

This is a huge controversy all over my facebook page. What do you guys think?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2675807/Animal-lover-outrage-blonde-Texas-cheerleader-smiles-dozens-photos-alongside-rare-big-game-hunts-African-safaris.html

Here is a different perspective from a blogger:

http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/07/03/just-pretend-this-dead-lion-is-a-human-baby-and-then-you-wont-be-so-upset/#EIMAssJIY70PLCuB.01

 

My thoughts are that she was completely legal. The rhino was a green hunt which means it was tranquilized under supervision of a vet for DNA testing, antibiotics, wound treatment (and got to take a cool picture with it too), etc., the lion was a second male lion entering a pride to kill the current oldest male, kill all the cubs and bring the female lion into heat again for more lions (I can understand this for conservation and wildlife control). The elephant and other kills are given to villages for food.  I have no problem with it. Get it girl.

 

holyguacamole79

I actually just read Matt Walsh's take on this and I agree with him completely. I'm honestly ambivalent about the whole thing.

Sugargirl1019

He has an enlightening view of the whole situation. I completely agree with him too.

lyndausvi

I went on a photographer safari for our HM.   While I had no desire to hunt them I get the allure.    

As long as she was shooting them for the reasons stated I have no problem.     Had she killed say the elephant for it's tusk I would have a different opinion.

JCbride2015

So, I disagree with Matt Walsh on the abortion issue.  Fetus =/= baby.

But I have nothing against hunting, especially for the stated reasons.  My grandfather is a big game hunter (still is, at the age of 82) and as long as the animal is not protected, it's in season, and the meat is eaten, I've got no issue with it.

I honestly think part of the problem is that she's a pretty blond cheerleader.  Not who we expect to see when we think of a big game hunter.

lyndausvi

JCbride2015 said:

I honestly think part of the problem is that she's a pretty blond cheerleader.  Not who we expect to see when we think of a big game hunter.

yep.

Sugargirl1019

That's my Alma Mater too. And I'm proud of it!

kat1114

I understand that it's legal and why it's done. The thing that bothers me is her boastful attitude and taking smiling pictures next to her "trophies." I find it disturbing that someone could find such joy and happiness in killing one of these majestic animals. If she was doing this without all the fanfare, I wouldn't be offended. 

doeydo

If the lion comes and kills the cubs and the current daddy-lion, then he is stronger/"better" and then his genes would go forward instead of the "weaker" lion's genes.  A fetus is not a baby, and it is a woman's choice whether or not she wants one growing inside her own body, not this SOB blogger's choice.

lyndausvi

I have to say most of my hunter friends are also big into conservation.  Which seems like an oxymoron, but they seem to do more for conservation that non-hunters.

daria24

I'm kind of meh on the whole issue of hunting (in my mind, if you object to all hunting, you should object to killing cows for food too). My issue with her posts are that the "fair chase" thing is bullshit. When you go to those big game preserves, they drive you out to the animal, tell you which one to shoot, and bam, dead lion. She's not tracking some hippo down for three days before she spots him and bags him. Don't make it sound like a challenge lady.

Sugargirl1019

doeydo said:

If the lion comes and kills the cubs and the current daddy-lion, then he is stronger/"better" and then his genes would go forward instead of the "weaker" lion's genes.  A fetus is not a baby, and it is a woman's choice whether or not she wants one growing inside her own body, not this SOB blogger's choice.

I respectfully disagree. I will say "A fetus is a baby" and you will say "A fetus is not a baby" all night long.

I also disagree about the lion. We don't have enough information, but say the pride leader was an older lion. Both lions have the same genes. The only reason he would lose to a younger lion was age (do lions have less energy as they age?) Then, it would not benefit the lions genetic pool. The younger lion would get the female lion pregnant more, and the number of lions gets out of control.

ashley8918

I'm pretty "meh" on the whole thing, honestly. What I am not "meh" about is that horrible blog post. A fetus is not a baby, and abortion is not murder. 

jenajjthr

Sugargirl1019 said:

If the lion comes and kills the cubs and the current daddy-lion, then he is stronger/"better" and then his genes would go forward instead of the "weaker" lion's genes.  A fetus is not a baby, and it is a woman's choice whether or not she wants one growing inside her own body, not this SOB blogger's choice.

I respectfully disagree. I will say "A fetus is a baby" and you will say "A fetus is not a baby" all night long. I also disagree about the lion. We don't have enough information, but say the pride leader was an older lion. Both lions have the same genes. The only reason he would lose to a younger lion was age (do lions have less energy as they age?) Then, it would not benefit the lions genetic pool. The younger lion would get the female lion pregnant more, and the number of lions gets out of control.

Do you know how population ecology works? The number of lions won't get out of control unless there was enough food to sustain them. Baby lions would die off due to starvation if not enough food was available to keep them alive. Females hunt, alpha male eats first, then down the line in ranking order. Her killing the younger male to keep it from killing the older male just messes with population ecology, and the only scenario I don't agree with. At some point the older male will need to be replaced. His job is to protect the babies while the females are out hunting, protect the pride. A younger male does this better than an older male. 

chibiyui

I am not fully versed in African big game hunting laws and the eco-system they inhabit, so I'll defer to the local governments, if they deem it's legal and needed for population control, cool. It's one of those issues  that doesn't register on my "give a fuck chart"
And the bit I do know, in my area, hunting is very much needed to control the deer population. So. there's that. 

I think I'm more bothered by the ostentatious show of wealth in a teenager flying across the world to hunt big game animals then anything else. 

She seems like a brat. I won't hold that against her though, because almost everyone in high school is an insufferable brat. Hopefully she'll grow out of it.

And her makeup bugs me. But I realize that's me just being a judgey wino.

jenajjthr

Deer population control is very different from lion population control. I'm a biology teacher, and I rocked my ecology class in college. Love this part of biology, and genetics. Deer are herbivores and their population is controlled by the amount of food and predators. In the city there are not many (if any) natural predators, but still a lot of grass, gardens, etc. Hence the out of control deer population that cities have to deal with.  Lions are carnivores and the top predator of their ecosystem. Their population is controlled by how much food the female lions bring to the pride. A younger male lion is better suited to protect the females and young (who grow up to expand the pride), they then are healthier, they can then bring down the herbivores and bring more meat to the pride, making every lion healthier.

It may seem cruel to us that a younger male comes in and kills all the cute little baby cubs, but that is how nature works in a lion pride. This was their excuse to let her kill a young, healthy, male lion, most likely for a ton of money, instead of the established older lion. He was "encroaching." He was gonna kill the babies. The tribe who set this up was thinking of themselves and the money they would get. Why not go for the older lion? Probably because he would have been the harder kill, probably because he wouldn't have been the prettier kill. It wasn't done for conservation reasons, it was done for money reasons. 

buttercup1958

I don't have much of an opinion about this. I know I have a fear of lions though so I'm kinda happy she killed one. I know lions are a very important part of the ecosystems though and I admit I'm biased.

BreMR

I am not 100% familiar with this particular story, there was a lot of outrage about a year ago about another pretty blonde hunting and posting the pictures online and I familiarized myself with that story a bit more.  I didn't read more about this one because honestly, the pictures make me so sad.

I will say, hunting is 100% not my style, I couldn't kill anything on purpose, so my gut tells me that this is completely wrong. I do think that this girl is getting so much attention because she's adorable, there are probably thousands of these same pictures out there of men and nobody cares.  

Also, Matt Walsh is one of the bloggers I hate most.  His backwards way of thinking on women in general just repulses me.

ashley8918

BreMR said:

Also, Matt Walsh is one of the bloggers I hate most.  His backwards way of thinking on women in general just repulses me.

AlexisA01

Thanks to this news story, everyone on my facebook is fighting each other. 

Sugargirl1019

AlexisA01 said:

Thanks to this news story, everyone on my facebook is fighting each other. 

It's crazy right?

AlexisA01

Sugargirl1019 said:

Thanks to this news story, everyone on my facebook is fighting each other. 

It's crazy right?

Yes on my facebook it is: Vegan/Anti Hunting vs If it is legal..../Did you read the whole Article.

My Moh is Vegan and my brother is on the side of "it is legal and not all the animals are dead...". It is getting very ugly.

jimandpam87

Honestly, I've never had much of a problem with hunting.  I don't do it, just b/c I could never purposefully kill an animal, but I wouldn't condemn someone who does hunt.  However, I really really hate that all of these pictures were posted all over facebook, the internet, etc.  "Oh hey, look at me, I just killed this elephant that did absolutely nothing to me.  Also, just in case you didn't know, my daddy's rich.  LOLZ."  That's what it says to me.  And it rubs me all kinds of the wrong way.

doeydo

Sugargirl1019 said:

If the lion comes and kills the cubs and the current daddy-lion, then he is stronger/"better" and then his genes would go forward instead of the "weaker" lion's genes.  A fetus is not a baby, and it is a woman's choice whether or not she wants one growing inside her own body, not this SOB blogger's choice.

I respectfully disagree. I will say "A fetus is a baby" and you will say "A fetus is not a baby" all night long. I also disagree about the lion. We don't have enough information, but say the pride leader was an older lion. Both lions have the same genes. The only reason he would lose to a younger lion was age (do lions have less energy as they age?) Then, it would not benefit the lions genetic pool. The younger lion would get the female lion pregnant more, and the number of lions gets out of control.

Um, what?  The way it is going, lions in the wild will be extinct by 2025.  Their population is no where near "going out of control".

bethsmiles

Honestly, I'm not educated enough on this topic to have a strong opinion on the matter. I do think it's glossed over that she doesn't kill all the animals, some are tranquilized not dead in the pictures.

However, if people are really upset about this then I don't think focusing their rage toward a 19 year-old is the appropriate way to go about this. A petition to get her pictures of Facebook? Get a life. Why not a petition to change the laws, raise awareness, do something actually matters if you are actually upset.

ohannabelle

"Legal" hunt or no, this is the glorification of a kill mentality, and makes me vomit to look at it. I can't even. I actually got sick to my stomach seeing her posing on the body of that beautiful lion. If she can't see the wrong in this, I have a few suggestions on where she can shove that elephant tusk. Yes, I feel something like hatred when I see these pictures. Gross. Dead animal bodies are not cute photo ops. 

emmaaa

jenajjthr said:

Deer population control is very different from lion population control. I'm a biology teacher, and I rocked my ecology class in college. Love this part of biology, and genetics. Deer are herbivores and their population is controlled by the amount of food and predators. In the city there are not many (if any) natural predators, but still a lot of grass, gardens, etc. Hence the out of control deer population that cities have to deal with.  Lions are carnivores and the top predator of their ecosystem. Their population is controlled by how much food the female lions bring to the pride. A younger male lion is better suited to protect the females and young (who grow up to expand the pride), they then are healthier, they can then bring down the herbivores and bring more meat to the pride, making every lion healthier.

It may seem cruel to us that a younger male comes in and kills all the cute little baby cubs, but that is how nature works in a lion pride. This was their excuse to let her kill a young, healthy, male lion, most likely for a ton of money, instead of the established older lion. He was "encroaching." He was gonna kill the babies. The tribe who set this up was thinking of themselves and the money they would get. Why not go for the older lion? Probably because he would have been the harder kill, probably because he wouldn't have been the prettier kill. It wasn't done for conservation reasons, it was done for money reasons. 

I'm sorry, @jenajjthr, but acing your ecology class and being a biology teacher in no way, shape, or form, makes you an African ecologist expert. 

I think the hype and outrage over this is ridiculous. I do hunt and I enjoy it. And you better believe when I laid my first buck down I got a picture with it. I look at it this way: she did nothing illegal, the money she (her daddy) spends on these hunts goes to the wildlife conservation fund, the controlled hunt helps preserve the ecological makeup of that certain animal and its' "pack," and the meat goes to hungry families in local villages. 

What outrages me most is seeing people who are berating this girl are the same ones who go to the zoo for fun on a yearly basis. Please tell me how taking an animal out of it's natural habitat and forcing it to live in a cage the rest of it's life is okay.

lyndausvi

I'm just taking this opportunity to be able to show off my awesome photography skills from our HM.

Yes, that black bar is my armrest on the jeep.  That is how close we were.

This guy liked to hang out in the pool and walk on our roof at night.  Here is sitting on a wall.  Our room is not far away.

This guy was just yawing.  I actually got the entire yawn, but figured you only wanted to see the scary shot.

ashley8918

@lyndausvi Those pictures are awesome! Where did you go for your HM?

lyndausvi

We stayed at a lodge located in Sabi Sands reserve in South Africa.  It's near Kruger.

ashley8918

lyndausvi said:

We stayed at a lodge located in Sabi Sands reserver in South Africa.  It's near Kruger.

I'll have to look into something like that. It looks awesome!