Stag/Doe

laceykeo

Apologies in advance if this is a weird post, I'm just curious.

Is a stag/doe the American equivalent of a stag/hen?
Why are they side-eyed/considered rude?

Over here (UK), couple announces engagement, confirms MoH/BMs, and BM/GMs, plans wedding, etc. In the run up to the wedding, (usually the MoH for her, BM for him, with BM and GM help, although not necessarily) plans a hen party for her/stag party for him. On the date of the hen/stag party (does not have to be the same date for both parties) the guys all go to wherever, and have a crackin night out. (Drinking/strip club/theme park/pizza and beer at selected house/football match/day at the beach/paintballing/whatever).

Is this a stag/doe party? Or is this a bachelor/ette party and a stag/doe is something completely different?

lilacck28

the UK stag/ hen party is equivalent to the US bachelor/ette party. The US and Canadian "Stag/ doe" party is USUALLY a rude raffle like party, where the bride and groom sell tickets to anyone (those invited and people NOT invited to the wedding) to attend a big party. They are basically used to raise money for the bride and groom to supplement the cost of the wedding. 

They are very rude because 

1. a wedding is not a charity and should not be fundraiser for

2. you shouldn't be asking your guests for money

and 3. you most DEFINITELY should not be inviting people to wedding events who will not be invited to the wedding itself. 

The stag/doe party is something I had never heard of until I was on the Knot, so I would not say it is common. 

laceykeo

...

Well.
Thanks for the clarification... I think...

I'm almost thinking I'd have been better off just not asking.

I can't even...

You mean to tell me that the bride and groom, charge people to attend a party to raise money to pay for a party... I think?

Why not just send out a "pre-invite"?
"Hey, we're engaged!!!! We'd love to invite you to our wedding, we're just not sure when it is yet because we don't know how much money we'll get. If you could let me know via Facebook once you've deposited your donation into (my bank account details) we'd appreciate it and we'll update you on details once everyone's responded!!!
P.S. Aiming for fillet steak and at least an hour of free drinks so make it a good one, kaythbxbai "

No wonder I was confused reading that stag/doe is rude (confused with stag/hen). Never in life have I heard of this disaster.

lilacck28

Yup. You can learn about lot of rude stuff on the knot. I had never heard of the dollar dance either.

lmcooper86

Yeah, they are pretty awful, and sadly a lot of Canadian brides claim that they are "totally normal" and that "everyone does it" which makes the rest of us Canadians looks bad. Truth be told, they tend to be a lot more common in rural areas and small towns; I don't know anyone from a larger city who has ever had one of these and I certainly won't be (gross), but I've been invited to several. In this case it does seem to really be a regional thing (I hate that phrase, but it actually applies…not that it makes these parties any better or more acceptable!)

Disclaimer: I am not at all saying that everyone who lives in a rural or more small town area is rude and insane and has one of these damn parties; I know plenty of people who don't live in big cities who would never dream of having a fundraising party like this. From my personal experience it just happens to be that this particular party is thrown more often in rural/small town areas. 

laceykeo

lilacck28 said:

Yup. You can learn about lot of rude stuff on the knot. I had never heard of the dollar dance either.

... Dare I ask what a dollar dance is?

LadyMillil

wrongsideoftheocean said:

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Yup. You can learn about lot of rude stuff on the knot. I had never heard of the dollar dance either.

... Dare I ask what a dollar dance is?

Guests pay money to dance with the bride or groom. 

laceykeo

lmcooper86 said:

Yeah, they are pretty awful, and sadly a lot of Canadian brides claim that they are "totally normal" and that "everyone does it" which makes the rest of us Canadians looks bad. Truth be told, they tend to be a lot more common in rural areas and small towns; I don't know anyone from a larger city who has ever had one of these and I certainly won't be (gross), but I've been invited to several. In this case it does seem to really be a regional thing (I hate that phrase, but it actually applies…not that it makes these parties any better or more acceptable!)

Disclaimer: I am not at all saying that everyone who lives in a rural or more small town area is rude and insane and has one of these damn parties; I know plenty of people who don't live in big cities who would never dream of having a fundraising party like this. From my personal experience it just happens to be that this particular party is thrown more often in rural/small town areas. 

I think there's two very different ways for people to make a generalisation.

"Don't worry, only people in (area) do this"

And

"This tends to be more common around (area) although certainly even there, there are people who would be shocked at this".

The first I would ignore. The second I would listen to.


I apologise if you find yourself tarred with something just because you're from that area, that sucks.

laceykeo

LadyMillil said:

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wrongsideoftheocean said:

lilacck28 said:

Yup. You can learn about lot of rude stuff on the knot. I had never heard of the dollar dance either.

... Dare I ask what a dollar dance is?

Guests pay money to dance with the bride or groom. 

Oh for crying out loud!
*throws hands up in disgust".

Snowflake syndrome strikes again?

Is being a bride (or groom) that freaking speshul that people need to pay for the "privilege" of a dance with them now?

On my wedding day, I will feel like the most amazing, special girl in the world. Because I am marrying the person I have chosen to share my life with. Because I have people who love me, who have graciously given up their own time to witness our union.

Enough! Jeez.

climbingsingle

Yeah, the only stag/doe parties I've heard about have been here on TK. And from the posts I've read about them, they seem tacky as hell. 

LondonLisa

wrongsideoftheocean said:

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wrongsideoftheocean said:

Yup. You can learn about lot of rude stuff on the knot. I had never heard of the dollar dance either.

... Dare I ask what a dollar dance is?

Guests pay money to dance with the bride or groom. 

Oh for crying out loud! *throws hands up in disgust". Snowflake syndrome strikes again? Is being a bride (or groom) that freaking speshul that people need to pay for the "privilege" of a dance with them now? On my wedding day, I will feel like the most amazing, special girl in the world. Because I am marrying the person I have chosen to share my life with. Because I have people who love me, who have graciously given up their own time to witness our union. Enough! Jeez.

I know! It is pretty atrocious. I think there are tacky trends everywhere. 

@wrongsideoftheocean I think we need to help some British brides break some of the tacky trends here as well! The proliferation of evening guests, cash bars and registry information with the invites is just crass and vulgar! Where do these people think this is ok???

laceykeo

LondonLisa said:

show previous quotes

wrongsideoftheocean said:

LadyMillil said:

wrongsideoftheocean said:

lilacck28 said:

Yup. You can learn about lot of rude stuff on the knot. I had never heard of the dollar dance either.

... Dare I ask what a dollar dance is?

Guests pay money to dance with the bride or groom. 

Oh for crying out loud!
*throws hands up in disgust".

Snowflake syndrome strikes again?

Is being a bride (or groom) that freaking speshul that people need to pay for the "privilege" of a dance with them now?

On my wedding day, I will feel like the most amazing, special girl in the world. Because I am marrying the person I have chosen to share my life with. Because I have people who love me, who have graciously given up their own time to witness our union.

Enough! Jeez.

I know! It is pretty atrocious. I think there are tacky trends everywhere. 

@wrongsideoftheocean I think we need to help some British brides break some of the tacky trends here as well! The proliferation of evening guests, cash bars and registry information with the invites is just crass and vulgar! Where do these people think this is ok???

Sadly, both things that are seemingly common here. Neither for intentional rudeness, but simply because "but, that's how it's done".

A 30/40/50 people ceremony, later that day followed by a 200+ people reception is... "Normal?"

I don't get that, either.

laceykeo

Weddings can be hella expensive.

Last I knew the average cost of a UK wedding was something like £20,000? (Around $35,000).

So, a marriage license at a registry office is something like £50 depending on the area.

What the hell are we spending our money on???

Here's a plan: save, DIY, downscale.
Don't beg.
Urgh.

pinkshorts27

wrongsideoftheocean said:

Weddings can be hella expensive.

Last I knew the average cost of a UK wedding was something like £20,000? (Around $35,000).

So, a marriage license at a registry office is something like £50 depending on the area.

What the hell are we spending our money on???

Here's a plan: save, DIY, downscale.
Don't beg.
Urgh.

I like you.

laceykeo

Well thanks

I'd chalk it up to common sense, problem with that is "common sense" is a wildly inaccurate name.

alpacalunch

ClimbingBrideNY said:

Yeah, the only stag/doe parties I've heard about have been here on TK. And from the posts I've read about them, they seem tacky as hell. 

They are.

Once as a BM I was roped into helping/bartending/any tacky job they could find to give me. I drew the line at selling admission tickets. Just, no.

Imcooper86 they are more prevalent the more rural you get, but the tackiness is spreading into cities. Sigh.

ashleyep

They're also called Jack&Jill parties, at least near(ish) to me. I was recently invited to a Jack & Jack party. At least I'm invited to that wedding, but fortunately for me, they live 3 hours away in western Mass and I will not be making that trip.

I'm just hoping they don't ask me to buy a ticket anyway!

theartistformerlyknownas

Welcome to TK, OP. I like you.

laceykeo

ashleyep said:

They're also called Jack&Jill parties, at least near(ish) to me. I was recently invited to a Jack & Jack party. At least I'm invited to that wedding, but fortunately for me, they live 3 hours away in western Mass and I will not be making that trip.

I'm just hoping they don't ask me to buy a ticket anyway!

Like... "So sorry you're not gonna make it. The ticket's are (dollars), would you prefer to mail the cash now or hand it over at the wedding" ?????

I'm scared...

wrigleyville

The dollar dance started as an old, Eastern European tradition. Guests would come to the reception and pin money to the bride's dress. We're talking way back in the day here.

Now that many people bring money to the wedding in the form of a check or cash in a card, the money dance SHOULD be obsolete, but many brides from large Polish families still carried on this tradition via the Dollar Dance. That's why you saw/see it a lot in the Midwest (Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, etc) mostly. The trend is spreading, though, so now you now see it at many weddings, no matter what the couple's ethnicity or location.

Some brides see this as a great way to make *extra* money off their guests. They don't realize the money given during the Money Dance used to be the wedding gift, not an *addition* to the wedding gift. The money was pinned to the bride and meant to help the couple with their new home, buying whatever they need, etc. Now that money is put in cards, so it's a moot point.

laceykeo

Well that's interesting.

So, as the bride danced past you were free to add (or not) an amount of your choosing to her dress, as your gift to them towards starting their own home together?

Sounds good by me.

Paying to dance with the bride to entice people to pony up yet more dough is just... Ew.

daria24

wrigleyville said:

The dollar dance started as an old, Eastern European tradition. Guests would come to the reception and pin money to the bride's dress. We're talking way back in the day here.

Now that many people bring money to the wedding in the form of a check or cash in a card, the money dance SHOULD be obsolete, but many brides from large Polish families still carried on this tradition via the Dollar Dance. That's why you saw/see it a lot in the Midwest (Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, etc) mostly. The trend is spreading, though, so now you now see it at many weddings, no matter what the couple's ethnicity or location.

Some brides see this as a great way to make *extra* money off their guests. They don't realize the money given during the Money Dance used to be the wedding gift, not an *addition* to the wedding gift. The money was pinned to the bride and meant to help the couple with their new home, buying whatever they need, etc. Now that money is put in cards, so it's a moot point.

I don't know that it's that old, at least in Poland. Everything I've read says it dates to the 18th or 19th century. Especially since paper money is a relatively recent invention. And the money was meant to pay the bill for the food/drink and to give the couple enough money to start their life. There is a wedding scene in Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" that describes the money dance. 

Just to clarify another point-a Jack & Jill party here in the US can either mean a "fundraiser" type of event, or just a shower that both men and women are invited to. So sometimes a "jack & Jill" isn't tacky as shit

ashleyep

daria24 said:

show previous quotes

wrigleyville said:

The dollar dance started as an old, Eastern European tradition. Guests would come to the reception and pin money to the bride's dress. We're talking way back in the day here.

Now that many people bring money to the wedding in the form of a check or cash in a card, the money dance SHOULD be obsolete, but many brides from large Polish families still carried on this tradition via the Dollar Dance. That's why you saw/see it a lot in the Midwest (Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, etc) mostly. The trend is spreading, though, so now you now see it at many weddings, no matter what the couple's ethnicity or location.

Some brides see this as a great way to make *extra* money off their guests. They don't realize the money given during the Money Dance used to be the wedding gift, not an *addition* to the wedding gift. The money was pinned to the bride and meant to help the couple with their new home, buying whatever they need, etc. Now that money is put in cards, so it's a moot point.

I don't know that it's that old, at least in Poland. Everything I've read says it dates to the 18th or 19th century. Especially since paper money is a relatively recent invention. And the money was meant to pay the bill for the food/drink and to give the couple enough money to start their life. There is a wedding scene in Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" that describes the money dance. 

Just to clarify another point-a Jack & Jill party here in the US can either mean a "fundraiser" type of event, or just a shower that both men and women are invited to. So sometimes a "jack & Jill" isn't tacky as shit

True. I was going to mention that with my comment. In my case, the Jack & Jack is definitely a fundraiser event. I've never actually heard Jack & Jill refer to a coed shower.

theartistformerlyknownas

ashleyep said:

show previous quotes

daria24 said:

wrigleyville said:

The dollar dance started as an old, Eastern European tradition. Guests would come to the reception and pin money to the bride's dress. We're talking way back in the day here.

Now that many people bring money to the wedding in the form of a check or cash in a card, the money dance SHOULD be obsolete, but many brides from large Polish families still carried on this tradition via the Dollar Dance. That's why you saw/see it a lot in the Midwest (Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, etc) mostly. The trend is spreading, though, so now you now see it at many weddings, no matter what the couple's ethnicity or location.

Some brides see this as a great way to make *extra* money off their guests. They don't realize the money given during the Money Dance used to be the wedding gift, not an *addition* to the wedding gift. The money was pinned to the bride and meant to help the couple with their new home, buying whatever they need, etc. Now that money is put in cards, so it's a moot point.

I don't know that it's that old, at least in Poland. Everything I've read says it dates to the 18th or 19th century. Especially since paper money is a relatively recent invention. And the money was meant to pay the bill for the food/drink and to give the couple enough money to start their life. There is a wedding scene in Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" that describes the money dance. 

Just to clarify another point-a Jack & Jill party here in the US can either mean a "fundraiser" type of event, or just a shower that both men and women are invited to. So sometimes a "jack & Jill" isn't tacky as shit

True. I was going to mention that with my comment. In my case, the Jack & Jack is definitely a fundraiser event. I've never actually heard Jack & Jill refer to a coed shower.

I think I've heard of people here refer to their (non-fundraising) co-ed bachelor/ette parties as Jack & Jill parties, likely because they didn't know any better.

lmcooper86

martha1818 said:

show previous quotes

lmcooper86 said:

Yeah, they are pretty awful, and sadly a lot of Canadian brides claim that they are "totally normal" and that "everyone does it" which makes the rest of us Canadians looks bad. Truth be told, they tend to be a lot more common in rural areas and small towns; I don't know anyone from a larger city who has ever had one of these and I certainly won't be (gross), but I've been invited to several. In this case it does seem to really be a regional thing (I hate that phrase, but it actually applies…not that it makes these parties any better or more acceptable!)

Disclaimer: I am not at all saying that everyone who lives in a rural or more small town area is rude and insane and has one of these damn parties; I know plenty of people who don't live in big cities who would never dream of having a fundraising party like this. From my personal experience it just happens to be that this particular party is thrown more often in rural/small town areas. 

Canadian from a big city here, and unfortunately I have some friends who think this is normal I've tried setting them straight when I hear of it but most people's rebuttals are "well weddings are expensive these days." It's like they've never heard the concept of hosting what you can afford?!

UGH NOOOO! None of my friends have gone down this road, I thought we were safe here lol

Weddings don't HAVE to be expensive, and if you WANT (read: CHOOSE) to have an expensive wedding then you damn well better be able to pay for it without hitting up every one of your Facebook friends for cash.

Fairyjen1

    

daria24 said:

show previous quotes

wrigleyville said:

The dollar dance started as an old, Eastern European tradition. Guests would come to the reception and pin money to the bride's dress. We're talking way back in the day here.

Now that many people bring money to the wedding in the form of a check or cash in a card, the money dance SHOULD be obsolete, but many brides from large Polish families still carried on this tradition via the Dollar Dance. That's why you saw/see it a lot in the Midwest (Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, etc) mostly. The trend is spreading, though, so now you now see it at many weddings, no matter what the couple's ethnicity or location.

Some brides see this as a great way to make *extra* money off their guests. They don't realize the money given during the Money Dance used to be the wedding gift, not an *addition* to the wedding gift. The money was pinned to the bride and meant to help the couple with their new home, buying whatever they need, etc. Now that money is put in cards, so it's a moot point.

I don't know that it's that old, at least in Poland. Everything I've read says it dates to the 18th or 19th century. Especially since paper money is a relatively recent invention. And the money was meant to pay the bill for the food/drink and to give the couple enough money to start their life. There is a wedding scene in Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" that describes the money dance. 

Just to clarify another point-a Jack & Jill party here in the US can either mean a "fundraiser" type of event, or just a shower that both men and women are invited to. So sometimes a "jack & Jill" isn't tacky as shit

   Around here Jack & Jill usually means a shower or bachelor/ette party that has both men and women. I assume when I'm invited to a Jack & Jill there will be mixed genders there. Boy would I be surprised if I showed up and had to pay to get in!

  I have never heard of Stag and Doe before coming to the knot. We don't do it here. Good thing, because my family has less etiquette than monkeys at the zoo and if they ever caught wind of it I'm sure a few of them would think it's a great idea. 

wrigleyville

daria24 said:

show previous quotes

wrigleyville said:

The dollar dance started as an old, Eastern European tradition. Guests would come to the reception and pin money to the bride's dress. We're talking way back in the day here.

Now that many people bring money to the wedding in the form of a check or cash in a card, the money dance SHOULD be obsolete, but many brides from large Polish families still carried on this tradition via the Dollar Dance. That's why you saw/see it a lot in the Midwest (Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, etc) mostly. The trend is spreading, though, so now you now see it at many weddings, no matter what the couple's ethnicity or location.

Some brides see this as a great way to make *extra* money off their guests. They don't realize the money given during the Money Dance used to be the wedding gift, not an *addition* to the wedding gift. The money was pinned to the bride and meant to help the couple with their new home, buying whatever they need, etc. Now that money is put in cards, so it's a moot point.

I don't know that it's that old, at least in Poland. Everything I've read says it dates to the 18th or 19th century. Especially since paper money is a relatively recent invention. And the money was meant to pay the bill for the food/drink and to give the couple enough money to start their life. There is a wedding scene in Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle" that describes the money dance. 

Just to clarify another point-a Jack & Jill party here in the US can either mean a "fundraiser" type of event, or just a shower that both men and women are invited to. So sometimes a "jack & Jill" isn't tacky as shit

That's what I meant by "way back".

sophhabobopha

Our wedding is costing $1,500-3,000 with plenty of food and booze. So it can be done. (:

I like you, OP.

vh2014

We were invited to a Jack & Jill 2 years ago.  I thought it was just a co-ed shower... we couldn't make it because it was out of town.  So glad.. I was suprised to hear later that they charged admission and though WTH? We still laugh about it.  This is the same person that had a huge baby shower where they sold raffle tickets and asked everyone to buy diapers... uh.... really? I blame it on all these reality TV shows.  If someone does it on TV it couldn't be for ratings right, it's because it's "real" and "normal" bwahahahahaha. ugh.